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Church On Doctrines

Does the church have the authority to make binding statements about what is true or false doctrine?

Why or why not?

How one defines "church" does not matter in your answer.

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 ---Cluny on 10/19/19
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Hebrews 11:1 - Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
---RichardC on 11/11/19


Nicole KNOWS I believe in Jesus death and resurrection, BECAUSE after 15 years of testifying to His death and resurrection, I also testified and have for over 15 years our IDENTIFICATION WITH JESUS IN DEATH AND RESURRECTION LIFE. I've posted Romans 6, Galatians 2:20-21 1 Cor 15:1-4, Colossians 2, ans so much more here I would bet probably in these 15+ years over 2500 times. It's basically the very core of what I do post.

So, we can conclude, Nicole has NO CLUE what I post and just babbles on like some whatever, OR she loves falsely accusing others by playing stupid. Either way....it's called being "DISINGENUOUS" to the core. .....Nicoles favorite word.
---kathr4453 on 11/11/19


If you don't believe in the results of WHY Jesus died and rose again, you really don't believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the way you are suppose to. Because to say you BELIEVE in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is to BELIEVE ALL of WHY Jesus died and rose again in the first place.

Nicole goes to a priest to confess sin, NOT boldly to the throne of Grace. Even Cluny scoffs at, we call having a PERSONAL relationship with the Lord. Taking MASS over and over is not faith in the FINISHED works of Christ, because they don't believe in the finished works of Christ.

So what good will it be for them to believe in Jesus death and resurrection life but DENY CHRIST in all He has done for us?
---kathr4453 on 11/10/19


Nicole, how did this jump from People needing to see Jesus miracles during His ministry to Jesus dying and rising from the dead? And YOU called Jesus words USELESS WORDS that He didn't waste His time with, yet I see ONLY WORDS spoken to the woman at the well.

When you cant admit you are wrong Nicole....you change the subject or muddy the waters ????? Sounds like TRUMPISM TACTICS..


BUT that wasn't the discussion was it? During Jesus ministry on earth B4 His death and resurrection THE SUBJECT WAS ....Did everyone under the sun need to see a miracle first to believe Jesus was the promised Messiah/Christ to believe He was.....I SHOWED YOU THE ANSWER WAS NO. I stand by that answer.

Changing the subject was so lame Nicole.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/19


The BIGGEST MIRACLE of all, The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Yes I do believe but so do the demons, so what does that prove? THE RESULTS of Jesus death and resurrection, THAT'S A MIRACLE, and the purpose of THIS MIRACLE. You Nicole do not believe we are sanctified through the body of Christ ONCE AND FOR ALL, Heb 10 ,that those who believe are crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him A NEW CREATURE Romans 6 Gal 6 .... That the way into the Holy of Holies has been opened that YOU Nicole can come boldly to the throne of GRACE to the Lord Himself Heb 4...YOU Nicole do not believe that MIRACLE. Everything in your RCC doctrine scoffs at those MIRACLES that were a result of Jesus Death and resurrection.
---kath453 on 11/10/19




Kathr: All John the Baptist needed to hear was the same ( useless words) Jesus spoke here to the woman at the well.//

How dare you tell Jesus want He needed to say or NOT to say.

Again stop jumping around a admit you need to believe that Jesus ROSE on the 3rd day and Ascended to His Father.

The BIGGEST MIRACLE you and I have to BELIEVE.
'
If you don't believe in the Resurrection you are putting Jesus at the same level as Muhammed, Buddha and other leaders of different faith.

Christianity is the only Faith that believes Jesus died and rose again on the 3 day as He said would happen.

Just acknowledge that and move on.

You are misleading many people who are considering to become a Christian.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/9/19


Nicole made some outrageous claim the Jesus doesn't waste his time with useless words. Yet that's exactly what he did here in John 4:25-26. All John the Baptist needed to hear was the same ( useless words) Jesus spoke here to the woman at the well. Jesus said MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE. Hardly could say anything Jesus said was worthless. That's a horrible comment...YIKES. Nicole needs to stop speaking for God...

John 4: 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
---kathr4453 on 11/9/19


If course they do Cluny. But to insist it was only physical is wrong.

Also remember those who came to Jesus for healing were told...your faith has healed you. So it also shows many believed Jesus was the Christ and put their faith in some one they first believed was the Messiah, and not give versa.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/19


Is there no way the verses that kath and Nicole disagree about cannot have BOTH physical and spiritual significance?

After all, can anyone here deny that the Savior healed blind, deaf, lame, lepers, and other ailments?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/8/19


nicole, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I see those verses in Isaiah as spiritual. Their eyes will be spiritually be opened, ears spiritually will hear..as Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and Life. AND Just as Jesus said, hearing they don't hear and seeing they don't see, wasn't referring to literally hearing and seeing.

Not "EVERYONE" needed to see a Miracle to believe. And no verse says EVERYONE needed to see a miracle to believe.


---kathr4453 on 11/7/19




Kathr, Jesus is God and can read minds. He knew John the Scriptures.

John read the scroll of Isaiah.

I didn't add to Scriptures. I listened to my Priest explaining the Scriptures.

Isaiah spoke about the Messiah and how one will know Him when He arrives. So John asked if Jesus was the One. Jesus answered him.

Isaiah 29:18 In that day the deaf will hear the words of the scroll, and out of gloom and darkness the eyes of the blind will see.

Isaiah 35:5-6 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped...and the mute tongue shout for joy.

If you asked me if it is raining outside and I said "look at my wet clothes"

That answered your question better than words.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/7/19


Nicole then admit you were wrong. Tell me, where in that verse does John the Baptist say...."Tell Jesus to do a miracle so I will know it is He. If He doesn't then I will look for another" NEVER HAPPENED!

Please stop adding or reading more into scripture than is there Nicole.

John never asked to see miracles. He simply asked if Jesus was the one.

You don't have to like my answer Nicole, but to keep insisting you are right is a waste if time. Not everyone needed to see a miracle to believe. Even with the Apostles...not all needed to see a miracle there either to believe.
---kathr4453 on 11/6/19


Kathr: John needing reaffirmation ....only needed a yes....not the miracles.//

Jesus doesn't waste His time with useless words.

I guess I needed to display Luke 7:23 as well.

Luke 7:23 "Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.

Kathr, it's okay to say 'I was wrong.' It gets easier and easier.

I have said many times I was wrong when someone proves I was wrong.

The Bible is clear. Jesus used miracles to ease John the Baptist's mind that He was the Messiah.

BTW, that's why 2 of his Disciples left him to follow Jesus.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/6/19


Any denomination can make rules for themselves. Doctrines are made up by many denominations. So they can speak for what they believe is true.

But only GOD can judge the heart.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/5/19


Nicole it doesn't matter when the Gospels were written, they are recorded truth.

So as I showed the woman at the well HEARD there was a promise if the Christ / Messiah who should come, and Jesus saying He was the one (SIC) and no miracle was preformed first.

Also as I stated in the beginning of Matthew and Luke we see many believed while Jesus was only an infant.

So you believe what you will Nicole, and I'll believe ALL of scripture.

When John Baptized Jesus, before Jesus did any miracles John said...BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHICH TAKETH AWAY THE SIN IF THE WORLD. Only the promised Messiah was prophecied to take away sin.

John needing reaffirmation ....only needed a yes....not the miracles.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/19


Kathr: Nicole, here are some that knew Jesus was the Messiah before going into his ministry

Mary
Joseph
King Herod.....wanted him dead
The Three Wise Men
John the Baptist
ELizabeth , Jechariah JTB Father.//

That's was in the Gospel years after Jesus' death.

Even John the Baptist didn't know Jesus was the Messiah. Luke 7:18-19

How did Jesus PROVE He was the Messiah?

BY MIRACLES

Luke 7:22
Go back and report to John what you have seen and heard: The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/4/19


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Has anyone but I noticed that kath (by all screen names) tends to project her own faults onto others?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/4/19


Has anyone noticed when others ask questions here he doesn't like or dislikes the asker/poster or also post scripture Cluny always gets snarky and insulting? It's a form of arrogance.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/19


Has anyone but I noticed that when I give a direct quote from the Bible, kath (by all of her screen names) accuses me of making things up?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 11/3/19


Who poked the bear?

Cluny, I'm still waiting for those 5 names.

Yes Monk, you do have better things to do then jump in someone else's business. But you made that choice didn't you? So why whine and say you have better things to do? Who asked you to jump in and then whine about it? Talk about another man-child tactic. Is this all part of your training, or is being a Monk just BOORING? So BOORING in fact you don't even read the question? I proved my point and showed Cluny the error of his MISSPEAKING ..

Now you have egg on your face and your sackcloth Monk you need to go wash it off.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/19


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Kathr said, "Judge not lest YE be judged Cluny....man child."

Kathr, does it delight you to think up insults for Cluny...or me?

You should get it into your head that I have more important things to do that to think up clever things to say to you.

But I would advise you to stop trying to use GOD's word when you attempt to prove your point, as such things will only backfire on you in the end.
---Monk_Brendan on 11/3/19


since the Magi were gentiles, it's unlikely they even knew the concept of the Messiah.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/19

Like I showed, this is only Cluny's OPINION.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/19


\\So to say the Magi would not have heard is ONLY CLUNY's OPINION...\\

That is not what I said.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/28/19


The Samaratian woman, Augustine said belonged to the Gentile world, ( Samaratians were actually half Jew and half gentile, who did not belong to Israel or the Law of Moses, but were a religion of their own) who HEARD That Messias commeth which is called Christ, without any miracles preformed.

Jews were a LIGHT to the Nations, as God promised Abraham, who was not a JEW, there would be the promise of the Messiah/Christ. So to say the Magi would not have heard is ONLY CLUNY's OPINION....and not the belief of Bible scholars in general.

John 4: 25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/19


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\\Exactly how many dead have the Orthodox raised ....say...just in the past 5 years.\\

More than your denomination, I dare say.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/25/19

cluny, you have a problem lying and then denying it....just like Trump. Is this some disease afflicting folks?

I told you my denomination has over 3,000,000 members. Ok so now list the minimum of only 5 I asked for....otherwise you have serious issues.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


]]You have a serious problem of projecting Cluny, even making up outlandish lies about the Orthodox raising over 3,000,000 from the dead. ]]

I never said that, therefore you are the liar.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/19


Cluny not only makes up outlandish lies, but by his questions shows he does not know scripture and wants you to do all the work for him so that he can then insist you don't know what verses mean because some Greek word he insists means something else, so he can deflect.

There are many issues I do not believe, that RCC and Orthodox believe, and that alone gets into Cluny's man child persona when being contrary.

He never proves his beliefs by posting scripture, like Marys bodily resurrection and assumption, claiming no such scripture is necessary. WRONG! And because I confront these beliefs we see how Cluny the man-child reacts.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


No Cluny, you not only did not give Scripture reference as MONK DEMANDS, but misquoted a word not said. Just as you THOUGHT you had accused me of, where I proved you wrong with your false accusation showing your own ignorance to scripture.

But hay....what's good for the goose is good for the gander...RIGHT CLUNY.

So it appears you are saying YOU don't know scripture like you want others to think you do. You have a serious problem of projecting Cluny, even making up outlandish lies about the Orthodox raising over 3,000,000 from the dead.

Judge not lest YE be judged Cluny....man child.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


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Cluny speculating again showing he doesn't know or understand scripture.

David Jesus also did many miracles where many did not believe. And was the Earthquake something Jesus did, or God the Father.

I don't doubt Jesus miracles or even why...I just stated many believed Jesus was the Messiah and promised KING according to Matthew 1-3 and Luke 1-2....while he was still an infant.

Now take the Mormons....who say Jesus was a "man" in the Garden of Eden, ....would not follow scripture would it? AND when Paul preached Christ...the Bereans checked the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was true.

The Eunuch or Cornelius etc did not need to see miracles even after Jesus resurrection to believe.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/19


\\
Looks like Cluny is making up scripture again.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/19\\

kathr, you don't know the Bible as well as you think you do.

This is not the first time you have demonstrated your lack of knowledge on these blogs.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/26/19


kathr, where is the Biblical evidence that any of the people you mentioned knew that Jesus was the messiah?

BCV, please.

While we're on the subject, since the Magi were gentiles, it's unlikely they even knew the concept of the Messiah.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/27/19


(Matthew 27:54) Now when the centurion, and those who were with him watching Jesus, saw the earthquake and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly, this was the Son of God!

Kathrine
What caused these unbelievers, to believe, Jesus was the Son of God?
Sure, those who followed John the Baptist may have believed without miracles, but that was because they were followers of John.

What was the prophecy, which left no doubt, Jesus was the Son of God?
The sign of Jonah.
Was that not a miracle?
And if this miracle was not needed to prove Jesus was The Son of God, why was there need of the prophecy?
---David on 10/27/19


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Nicole, here are some that knew Jesus was the Messiah before going into his ministry

Mary
Joseph
King Herod.....wanted him dead
The Three Wise Men
John the Baptist
ELizabeth , Jechariah JTB Father

Just to mane a few....

ALL Those who looked for the promise of the Messsiah and KNEW He proved those OT Prophecies were right on, did not need any miracles to prove.

Interestingly enough we also have prophecies concerning Jesus second coming. I won't need to see a miracle to KNOW who He is.

HOWEVER those who don't KNOW scripture and rely solely on miracles will be taken to the cleaners by LYING SIGNS AND WONDERS will be carried away by these so called miracles of an imposter.
---kathr4453 on 10/26/19


All one has to do is read Matthew Chapters 1-3 and Luke 1-2 to know many believed Jesus was the messiah and lists all those prophecies that the OT stated would show Jesus as the Messiah while he was still a baby.

Today we have the Word of God to either believe or reject...and no one needs a miracle to believe. Many today believe ..based on scripture account and OT prophecy Jesus is the Messiah alone. THE WORD OF GOD ( ALONE) IS LIVING AND POWERFUL.

There were miracles preformed Jesus didn't do Himself as a baby...like Angels appearing before many re the shepherds, and telling of the Messiah.
---kat453 on 10/26/19


//Etc etc. and many many in Israel did believe Jesus was the Son of God before He did any miracles.---kathr4453 on 10/25/19//

Please name them?

Specifically Jesus as the Messiah.

Even John had to ask AFTER the miracles Luke 7:18-23

Even His Disciples needed a miracle to believe in Him

John 2:11 What Jesus did here in Cana of Galilee was the first of the signs through which He revealed His glory, and His disciples believed in Him.
---Nicole_Lacey on 10/25/19


kathr4453:

Cluny wrote: Seems to me that Someone greater than anyone who posts to these blogs said, "If you were blind, you would have no fault. But because you say, 'I see,' your sin remains."

You wrote: Looks like Cluny is making up scripture again.

John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see, therefore your sin remaineth.
---StrongAxe on 10/26/19


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Here's the thing....Faith aka belief in what God has already said actually need no miracles. Everything about Jesus was prophecied in the OT

Born of a virgin
Where
Of the tribe of David

Etc etc. and many many in Israel did believe Jesus was the Son of God before He did any miracles.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/19


Does the church have the authority to make binding statements about what is true or false doctrine?

Not without the Power and Authority of God, as they had in the early Church. Because of this power, (Making the blind see, bringing the dead back to life, the anointment of the Holy Spirit) they had proof that God was with them.

For instance, if Jesus had claimed he was the Son of God, but came without miracles, who would have believed he was the one, who he claimed to be? Why should I believe Jesus, when I saw not one of his miracles?

I believe, but it is not because of what the Bible says and it is not because of what men say. I believe, because of the miracle he did in me.
---David on 10/25/19


Looks like Cluny is making up scripture again.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/19


Seems to me that Someone greater than anyone who posts to these blogs said, "If you were blind, you would have no fault. But because you say, 'I see,' your sin remains."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/23/19


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Ok so now Cluny wants to bind you to letters and books etc not part of scripture....or what....not sure what this negative person is up in arms again now.

I don't need some third degree from you Cluny to know the ONLY ONE IM BOUND TO IS THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

I already answered the question and further gave an explanation. If you don't like it...then lump it.

But if you so choose to be bound, then be bound....however I've been set at LIBERTY....something you still don't grasp.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/19


kath, do you consider yourself bound to the 27 books of the NT?

If so why?

And why just those particular ones. The Epistle of St. Barnabas is still extant, and St. Paul mentions his letter to the Laodiceans, that it should be shared, yet this one is apparently lost.

Why are THESE not in the NT?

Can you tell us?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/22/19


So no Cluny, I'm not bound by any RCC or Orthodox doctrine.

But to say I'm not bound by scripture is total ignorance on your part...making personal assaults just for the sake of doing so is so senile and childish....and folks can see for themselves where this childish behavior is coming from. Discussing churches and doctrine is one thing....discussing persons you know nothing of is quite another. You always have to lower the bar...like TRUMPISM....the new way. So satanic if you ask me.

Grow up Cluny...
---kathr4453 on 10/21/19


Why snarky personal assaults...

That's the problem Cluny...this particular CATHOLIC CHURCH Priest personally went above and beyond what the Pope said, and told this woman's daughter her mother was in hell. So this particular church priest made a binding doctrine on his own.....so pointing fingers only point back to your churches.

As is an issue with many many denominations...one saying YOU MUST BE WATER BAPTIZED O BE SAVED, or..if you don't speak in tongues your not saved.

Be a good Berean folks...
---kathr4453 on 10/21/19


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Abstinence from meat on Friday (or most Wednesdays and Fridays) is not a doctrine, but a discipline.

However, I don't expect you to really understand the difference.

//if it's not in scripture YOU are not bound by it.//

In my observation, you, kath, don't even consider yourself bound by Scripture.

Can anyone give me BCV where the Bible says that any person can decide for him/herself what the Bible teaches?

For that matter, is not the very NT something that the historic Church established. After all, nowhere does the Bible text itself say what should be in it.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 10/20/19


How one defines CHURCH does matter when it comes to answering this question.

Let's take eating meat on Friday. I have a friend who was told by her local earthly Church that her mother is in hell because she ate meat on Friday. YET THE TRUE CHURCH, Where Christ is the head where all authority comes directly from Him, has made no such statement, or doctrine.

Be a good Berean folks......if it's not in scripture YOU are not bound by it.

Many Protestant churches have no such BINDING doctrines as the RCC or ORTHODOX....but believe in the INDIVIDUAL Priesthood of the believer...something the RCC and Orthodox do not believe.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/19


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