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Salvation In The Church

"Outside the church, there is no salvation."

This is an expression that upsets many people, but it's really true.

What do we find in the Church?

The Word of God and the Sacraments.

These bring us salvation.

Comments, please.

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 ---Cluny on 11/29/19
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Trav, Paul tells us what the Mystery , Colossians 1:24-27. No OT prophecy even remotely suggested the RESURRECTED CHRIST IN YOU. How about Romans 6? Where in the OT is there prophecy of being baptized into Jesus death and raised up A NEW CREATURE?

It's been going on right under your nose since the beginning of Pentecost. They preached CHRIST CRUCIFIED AND RISEN,.....and were eye witnesses to His resurrection. Something Israel, Judah, the 10N house for the most part don't believe. However at Jesus 2nd coming....they will look upon Him who they have pierced and MOURN for Him THAT IS OT PROPHECY yet to be fulfilled. Just like Joseph's brothers ,after they realized he was alive...and were ashamed at what they did to him.
---kathr4453 on 5/13/21


Trav, I know you like to rearrange a verse, and try to compare it to your OT prophecy....
---kathr4453 on 5/12/21

All the verses posted by me are witnesses NT tying to the OT.
Your mystery quit being a mystery except to you. Divorced Israel and Judah were redeemed/widowed. Hence New Covenant.
You are in the wrong mystery novel. Your misunderstanding of Hebrew, greek and the prophets is why you cant coherently mesh with all scripture.
Again.... you dont see or hear, but i post to present scriptures to those that can see and hear.
---Trav on 5/12/21


Trav, I know you like to rearrange a verse, and try to compare it to your OT prophecy, however you left out a very important part of that verse....TO BE CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF JESUS CHRIST....

You see Matthew 13:35 Jesus is in this dispensation pointing to something not promised to earthly Israel. Paul clarifies in Philippians 3 being conformed TO HIS DEATH. Read Phil 3 Trav. You will see Paul is talking about something altogether different. Seeing Israel for the most part REJECTED the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ to this day, I hardly think they are realizing Philippians 3 in real time here.

Nice try...but wrong again. Nothing you say can explain away THE CHURCH, no matter how hard you try. Colossians 1:24-27.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/21


Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... firstborn among many brethren.
---kathr4453 on 5/11/21

You make perfect opportunity to align so many scriptures/witnesses for eyes and ears opened NT with OT, amazing.
Teacher teacher post some more.... predestinate .... elect... brethren, for ever, everlasting, covenant, etc, etc, etc
.
>Isa 45:4For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 65:9I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.
---Trav on 5/11/21


Trav:

Yes, that WILL happen at some time in the FUTURE. Every verse you quoted in Ezekiel 37 is in the future.

These are all things that will happen to Israel in the future. Read Romans 11. Paul talks about how we are wild branches grafted onto the olive tree because some of the natural ones were broken off (due to unbelief) - but we should NOT boast. If natural branches don't continue in unbelief, they will be grafted back. "that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. I.e. they WILL all come back in the future, but that has not yet happened.
---StrongAxe on 5/11/21




Trav, you need to read Colossians ..THE WHOLE BOOK. but here are a few nuggets...Colossians 1:24-27, then go to Colossians 2, then ch 3...try on verses 1-4. Then go to Ephesians....read out loud Ephesians 3:1-5 , 10 times, and write on the blackboard 100 times. There is obviously things as Jesus stated in Matthew 13:35 that was not spoken in the OT. BUT NOW HAS BEEN SPOKEN.

YOUR verses have nothing to do with AS PAUL STATES THIS DISPENSATION OF TIME. Trying to hang on to others coat tails that don't apply to you is sad. God knows those verses don't apply to YOU. or now.
---kathr4453 on 5/11/21


Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence.
---kathr4453 on 5/11/21


Earthly Israel is not the Church. The Church for one is not earthly..
---kathr4453 on 5/10/21

Have a sanctuary in your Church.... GOD does. Looks like all Israel is in it.
Eze 37:26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
Eze 37:27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people
Eze 37:28And the gentile shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.

Lets see Prophets of GOD or your unsupported confusion..... hmmmm no choice here.
---Trav on 5/10/21


Earthly Israel is not the Church. The Church for one is not earthly. Our blessings IN CHRIST are not earthly. Our land is IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST. We are a NEW CREATION, no longer Jew or Gentile, male or female. We are going to reign and rule WITH CHRIST when God fulfills His promises to EARTHLY Israel.

But one must be IN CHRIST AND CHRIST IN THEM, CRUCIFIED TO THE WORLD AND THE WORLD TO THEM, to see and understand this....all clearly taught in the NT....those things Peter said were hard to understand, but those who wrestle against will do so to their own distruction.

The church is not going to have to hide in the mountains or worry about running on the Sabbath day. Matt 24-25. The Church IS SAVED FROM THAT WRATH TO COME.
---kathr4453 on 5/10/21


you post scripture that refutes Paul's doctrine of the Gospel according to the MYSTERY.
....
CHURCH AGE. NO OT scripture ever taught or prophecies Galatians 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 5/8/21

Israel is the Church.... Paul Quotes OT 260 + times. He was not an outlaw to go against GODs prophets or Christ. He knew his OT scriptures.... you do not unfortunately.
More Clues for youse.
Eph 5:25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it,

Eph 5:32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

Act 2:36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
---Trav on 5/9/21




I post scripture that show your many doctrines are not supported by any of GODs prophets, Christ or Apostles.///TRAV

you post scripture that refutes Paul's doctrine of the Gospel according to the MYSTERY. Galatians prove you do and prove YOURS IS THAT OTHER GOSPEL Paul warns about. But yours is worse, because those Jews in Galatia acknowledged the salvation of Gentiles but wanted to put them in submission to the Jews and circumcise them. That may happen during the millennial reign of Christ,excluding circumcision, but not during the CHURCH AGE. NO OT scripture ever taught or prophecies Galatians 2:20-21, never taught "NO LONGER JEW GENTILE, BARBARIAN, GREEK MALE FEMALE" that we are crucified to the world and the world to us.
---kathr4453 on 5/8/21


Trav,
Only false teachers would object. The BOC would not.
---kathr4453 on 5/7/21

I post scripture that show your many doctrines are not supported by any of GODs prophets, Christ or Apostles. That you cannot use and are vehemently against the same resource says all that needs to be said. Every time.
Your gift evidenced is to post so that these unspoken rarely discussed scriptures reach those they were intended to.

Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the
promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 5/7/21


Trav, just because you're a man doesn't qualify you as a truth bearer. You're so worried about women utilizing their Spiritual Gift, you fail to see that Paul teaches ALL THE BODY OF CHRIST is working together for the same purpose. You don't believe in the Church or the BOC to begin with, so your rantings are only that. To prophe"S"y,spelled WITH AN S NOT C, is to reiterate what God has already spoken, not some new Revelation. It's also for the purpose of not being tossed about by every wind of doctrine that comes along...like Armstrongism.

I'm addressing THE BOC, not you Trav. I'm just addressing to the BOC that your teaching is lopsided and fails to see THE WHOLE PICTURE. Only false teachers would object. The BOC would not.
---kathr4453 on 5/7/21


.... All false prophets in scripture ARE MEN.
---kathr4453 on 5/05/21

Men.... GODS order. 1Ti 2:13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

You accuse everyone is not obeying scripture.... but its ok for you?
Ha, it has been pointed out.
We are just trying keep you from looking more foolish by what you refuse to consider, make outlandish excuses for or just simply cannot get your mind around.
You make changes.... GOD doesnt..... Thankfully.

Mal 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
---Trav on 5/5/21


Insecure men ?
br>
1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the women is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

( It's God ordinance )
---RichardC on 5/4/21

Well Richard just pretend your a woman.... even though she can dis men.
Makes sense these days.... in her woke head world.

Rom 2:7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
---Trav on 5/6/21


That may be so RichardC, however this is not church but a public forum, where there are no restrictions of women posting. Also, MEN, you do not have to listen or even respond to women who post. When YOU post back to a women it's YOU who are in violation.

So just pretend I'm addressing WOMEN ONLY here, and get over yourselves. Seeing I am an older woman over 70, have been SAVED through childbirth ..ha ha..,

TRAV or RichardC etc are also NOT MY HUSBAND OR MY HEAD. My head has given permission, therefore it's none of your business. I also have my head covered. Where scripture DOES give a women the right to pray, prophesy etc. 1 Cor 11:2-16. Consider my posts prayers and prophesy.
---kathr4453 on 5/5/21


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Yes according to Srtongs woman can also be defined as wife. I can understand during the early church and seeing the Gospel according to the Mystery was given to Paul by revelation, gentile women were not educated, or did many of them know the OT since it was a Jewish book. But TODAY, we've come a long way and women are educated. Also it's possible that Jewish women like Priscilla were more learned in scripture and as Jews ARE THE SERVANTS OF GOD, and scripture clearly states NO ONE IS TO JUDGE GODS SERVANTS, Romans 4:14. You don't have to listen Trav. And it may be because I interfere with his false gospel, THAT IS WHY HE WANTS TO SHUT ME UP.

Never! All false prophets in scripture ARE MEN.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/21


Insecure men ?

Genesis 3:16 - Unto the women he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception: In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children: and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

1 Corinthians 11:2 - Now I praise you, brethren, that ye. remember me in all things, and keep the ordinance, as I delivered them to you.

1 Corinthians 11:3 - But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the women is the man, and the head of Christ is God.

( It's God ordinance )
---RichardC on 5/4/21


Deborah was a Judge in Israel..... Paul had many women he also commended.
I should know the Gospel,....
---kathr4453 on 5/4/21

1. You violate scripture, and now make excuses. Makes sense in your Gospel variant.
2. You are not Deborah.
3. You are not Priscilla... commended by Paul, authorized by Paul, GOD or any Apostle or prophet. Just your 1 apostle.
4. You should know Gospel... so not to be found guilty of an unsupported variant of it.

Your apostle is quoting kenny haggin, instead of scripture. On plus side haggin may research that gentile has several meanings to consider, since he allows a double meaning for woman an wife.... basically still considered female/women in old days... 20 years ago back say.
---Trav on 5/4/21


And just to be clear here, the Gospel according to THE MYSTERY Romans 16:25-27 IS THE GOSPEL preached from Pentecost to today. Every single member of the Body of Christ is called to bring the Gospel to the lost souls of this world. WHOSOEVER is every human being under the sun. This Gospel is not about land, earthly Israel after the flesh, or promises to restore the Nation. We as the Body of Christ are NOT A NATION. WE HAVE NO PROMISED LAND TO RETURN TO. We are also not a RESTORED PEOPLE, but a NEW CREATION IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/21


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Deborah was a Judge in Israel....the equivalent to kings, before Israel had Kings. She was a married women. Queen Elizabeth l was a GOD APPOINTED QUEEN, as was The Queen of Sheba, who Jesus highly commended. Golda Meir was an awesome Prime Minister of Israel. Paul had many women he also commended. Many think Priscilla wrote Hebrews. It's a great possibility. God gave spiritual GIFTS to the entire body of Christ. Ephesians 4. Trav doesn't believe in the Body of Christ THE CHURCH, who is not earthly Israel, so Trav knows nothing about how these Gifts work THROUGH US. God has before ordained that I should know the Gospel, and spread the Gospel.

Also we are not in Church. Only insecure men keep throwing that verse at women.
---kathr4453 on 5/4/21


Trav:

Kenneth Hagin wrote a book called "The Woman Question" about the issue of women being silent in the church. He pointed out that the Greeks used the same word for "woman" and "wife", so 1 Ti 2:12 could be read "I suffer not a wife to teach, nor to usurp authority over the husband" - which makes much more sense, as it aligns with other scriptures that deal with intra-family order. "Woman" and "man" contradicts other parts of the New Testament, where there are deaconesses, and women like Priscila heading congregations.

Why is almost EVERY single one of your posts an accusation? There is one figure in the Bible who does that. Guess who?
---StrongAxe on 5/3/21


If being rebuked offends you, and you don't think it's christian, you are not believing all of scripture.
We are to rebuke when necessary. 2 Timothy 4:2. Please don't try to throw salt peter on my sword.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21

1Ti 2:12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Tit 2:3The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things,

First of all as a supposed believing woman you are not supposed to rebuke or teach any Church/Christian man. I mean you can never carry it off anyway, but, you are not believing all scripture as you accuse Josef.
---Trav on 5/3/21


Actually all those baptized into Christ death, and then raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE is the true church. And only those raised up a new creature are indwelt with the Holy Spirit, bringing forth now the FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT, RE LOVE ETC. it's a supernatural LOVE, not a human love.

Loving God and others can come easy for some....but is it the kind of LOVE God is looking for? Mother Theresa loved God and man, yet never shared the Gospel with the lost. She taught Muslim to be the best Muslims they can be, the Hindu to be the best Hindu they could be.,., THAT IS NOT THE GOSPEL. Being a good anything will not save you.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21


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Yes and no. This idea is from the Roman Catholic view.

The view I follow is that all those who love GOD and love others are in the true church. Not the denominations we have now. Love shows who is in the church. They are known only to GOD.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/21


Josef, not sure what that lecture was about. I was agreeing with Joseph here about Salvation being IN CHRIST ALONE, not in my genealogy. If being rebuked offends you, and you don't think it's christian, you are not believing all of scripture. We are to rebuke when necessary. 2 Timothy 4:2. Please don't try to throw salt peter on my sword.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21


See Kat, All praises, we can agree. We can agree at all times. Even when we disagree we can agree to disagree. Capture this moment in time. Remember it if you become angry consider it. Your my sister in Christ. Let's love one another, how ever you define the word. I define it as having a Godly tendency And inclination to do that which helpful, uplifting, edifying and beneficial to and towards ones fellow man. That is what I want to do in you. Don't try an be my enemy. Not possible. I choose to do without them.
---Josef on 4/24/21


Amen Joseph. I believe Paul would reiterate that our salvation is not having our own Righteousness but the Righteousness that is only in Christ Jesus . Phil 3 Romans 10
---kathr4453 on 4/23/21


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Salvation is a gift predicated solely upon the finished work of Yehoshua the Lord's Anointed.Salvation is not obtained by any other means, in my view. For as it is written, no man comes to the Father except through Him.
---joseph on 4/20/21


Let no evil talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for edifying, as fits the occasion, that it may impart grace to those who hear. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:29-30
---JS1234 on 4/14/21


The CHURCH is Jesus Christ , not a building. So yes there are those within and those without. Only those IN CHRIST are saved. 1 Corinthians 5:12
---kathr4453 on 4/14/21


But if a sacrament is only a copy-cat thing . . . this can not work.

---Bill on 4/11/21

Like believing that the Eucharist and Baptism are symbols, I agree!
---Ruben on 4/13/21


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Jesus is our way to God.

He includes His word in the process.

But if a sacrament is only a copy-cat thing . . . this can not work.

Anything we do with Jesus can help. All the time, we need to stay attentive and submissive to how Jesus guides us. His grace has us doing what spreads His grace, all the time. Every action in His love and leading will spread the effect of God's love.

And God's love in us changes our character so we become like Jesus who is so pleasing to our Father >

1 John 4:17.
---Bill on 4/11/21


Trav:
Gentile" ...(*Mormons redefine this word to mean "everyone who isn't a Mormon".....
---StrongAxe on 3/14/21

Well your logic is only as long as your short research on the term apx 1 inch with 11 feet remaining.
As a Roman creation it meant same to Romans as it does to Mormons.... not of Israel.
Paul spoke only to the Israel ... using ethnos, referring specifically to his outcast relatives of Israel, as they were referred to in OT.
Latin obscures and distorts the fact or truth.... but, then that suits the RC purpose. You approve? We can presume in lack of awareness.
Eze 37:28 the GENTILE shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore
---Trav on 3/16/21


Ruben:

How do YOU know if someone else's decisions on which books are in the Bible or not are, in fact, guided by the Holy Spirit? If one church includes Tobit and another does not, how do YOU know which is right?
---StrongAxe on 3/14/21

The Early Church Fathers and Councils who voted which books belong in the Bible in the early 3rd and fourth century had in fact Tobit, then in the 1500, Protestant come along and decide take it out,which group do you think had it right?

And if they were in fact not guided by the Holy Spirit , then why would you say the Bible is the final authority?
---Ruben on 3/14/21


Ruben:

How do YOU know if someone else's decisions on which books are in the Bible or not are, in fact, guided by the Holy Spirit? If one church includes Tobit and another does not, how do YOU know which is right?


Trav:

Everyone (except Mormons*) knows what "Gentile" means. It is just an English translation of Hebrew "Goyim" (which means "nations") or Greek "'ethnos" (which also means "nations"), and from which we get "ethnic" and "heathens". Why are you letting one word be a stumbling block?

(*Mormons redefine this word to mean "everyone who isn't a Mormon", which means you can have "Jewish gentiles", an oxymoron.)
---StrongAxe on 3/14/21


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These decisions are just subjective decisions ....
---StrongAxe on 3/12/21

What men added, subtracted is a tell to their intentions. Found by comparisons using our greater education, and technology. Without any clue to the future or that the earth was round these people made many errors.
Example: Gentile was never a word used by any prophet, apostle, or Christ. Yet one unfortunate word introduced 500 years of confusion and 32,000 denominations. For a purpose? Yes. GODs. The entire scripture story is extremely simple but, almost never told. Adam, a married Israel, a divorced Israel, a remarried Israel. Every possible nuance is addressed by prophets right under mens noses... they still miss/ed it.... a tell.
---Trav on 3/14/21


(Wise choices, but not Divinely Mandated ones.)
---StrongAxe on 3/12/2

If the Bible is an final authority which I believe is where you stand, how can it be just a wise choices and not guided by the Holy Spirit?

Why was Gospel Of Mark chosen and not the Gospel of Thomas?

Why were some of Paul letters left out?

How can this be just wise choices and not Divine mandate?

And since you mention some Ot and NT authors quoted other books that are not in the bible, why do you believe in the bible alone only?
---Ruben on 3/13/21


Trav:

Unfortunately, neither Jesus nor any bible author dictate a Bible Table of Contents. At best you can infer their approvals of some books that they quoted from, and some (like Esther) were never quoted. Some OT writers quoted books that aren't in the Bible (like Jasher). Some NT writers quoted books we don't consider canonical today. E.g. Paul quotes his own letter to the Laodiceans. Jude quotes from 1 Enoch.

So again, why does our own canon include books (like Esther) that nobody else mentioned, while it excludes some that the above people did quote from? These decisions are just subjective decisions that various councils of men made over the centuries. (Wise choices, but not Divinely Mandated ones.)
---StrongAxe on 3/12/21


So who decided which books are officially in the Bible or not?
God himself never.....
---StrongAxe on 3/8/21

Asked the same question myself first 40 years. Own copies of earlier versions, lost books etc.
The seeker, searcher, asker finds his answers through the only teacher Christ. Here a little there a little. Witness upon witness. Hebrew is easily found and seen as are the choices the sometimes doctrinally biasd made.
Those who go against the prophets are the most foolish of all in todays denom world. Christ came to fulfill them not change them.
Isa 28:10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little:
---Trav on 3/12/21


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Trav:

Most Bible books were written by Jews, except Luke and Acts, by a Greek physician.

Many wrote books, but few are in today's Bible. There was much variation in canon. Most NT quotes from OT follow Septuagint Greek where it differs from Mastoretic, and Septuagint includes several books Catholics and Orthodox include but Protestants do not. Jude 14-15 quotes 1 Enoch 1:9, a non-canonical book.

So who decided which books are officially in the Bible or not? Who decided which Bible manuscripts are authoritative? Those would have been various church fathers over the past 2000 years, as well as biblical scholars. God himself never included a table of contents saying which books are in the Bible or not.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/21


.......And just who do you think God used to decide what should be in the Bible?
---Cluny on 12/6/19

Without meaning too... cluny provided a void to fill.
GOD used the fathers, prophets, sons, apostles of the race of Israel to establish the scriptures.
EO/Rc modified cut, pasted and politicized Israels religion.
GOD chose one people/race to marry/divorce. Sent his son to reunify this broken marriage. New testament.... about the New Covenant states this... Jer 31:31/Heb 8:8-10. Real simple. Broken wall was between Judah and Nth House of Israel.... the two sticks found in Eze 37:20-22.... removing Israel from k4453s gentiles.
Eze 37:21.... GOD, Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen,....
---Trav on 3/7/21


While the church is very important for worship, for spiritual education, for Christian fellowship, and more, it is not required for salvation. To think think it is required is to indicate a person has to work for their salvation. Here are a few verses that state salvation is only provided by Christ alone: Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8, John 3:16, 17,Romans 3:23-28, I Timothy 2:3-6, and lots more verses document this, but space is limited. Again church attendance is nice, but NOT a requriment for salvation!
---wivv on 2/28/21


Every one saved today is a member of the body of Christ, called the church.
I am saved by the body of Christ. Salvation is not found outside the body of Christ. It's impossible to be saved today without being in the body of Christ.
(1 Cor 12:12-13)
---michael_e on 12/19/19


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//The church is a spiritual body(Body of Christ) and not a physical place.//

And I never said otherwise.

However, nobody can claim to be the church all by himself. As the saying goes, "Unus Christianus, nullus Christianus."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/18/19


//Outside the church, there is no salvation.//
Absolute truth, The church is a spiritual body(Body of Christ) and not a physical place. A person is made the church by trusting the gospel of Jesus Christ that he died for your sins, and was raised from the dead to provide salvation from both sin and death (Eph 1:13-14).
It's when the faith of Christianity is confused with a religious system that physical objects and places are given status as sacred or holy.
---michael_e on 12/18/19


As the early Christians said, "Nobody can call God his Father or Christ his Savior unless he also calls the Church his mother."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/19

WHO EXACTLY SAID THIS AND WHAT SCRIPTURE MAKES THIS STATEMENT. The Church is Jesus Christ, and is not our mother. The mystery of Christ IN YOU, re THE CHURCH defined in Colossians 1/24-27 make no such nonsensical ststement. Only the RCC/ Orthodox make such statements, pushing your false doctrine you posted here as the question above. They go hand in hand. However salvation is in CHRIST ALONE.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/19


Interestingly enough THE GOSPEL in the Bible says nothing about having a correct understanding about the Trinity or the Holy Spirit having to be exactly as MAN HAD DEFINED ( since Paul or Peter or James or John ) never once touched on that as the heart of our Christial life. However Romans 6-8 do tough on how we are brought to live IN CHRIST and walk IN HIM, and needs no Orthodox or RCC gnats to choke on to carry on as multitudes of wonderful BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS have for the last 2000 years without all that NONSENSE.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/19


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//Again, this is choking on a gnat, because this is a hair so small that the ONLY people who are even able to see it without a microscope are theologians.//

StrongAxe, it means everything to Eastern Christians.

I'm really surprised to see you projecting your own feelings onto most Christians.

Just because you find it minor doesn't mean it is.

\\ It has NO EFFECT on how most people live their lives.//

Errors about the Holy Trinity--which is what Filioque is--will have great negative effects in the lives of many.

But I will discuss this matter with you privately.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/19


Cluny:

You wrote: one CANNOT say the Holy Spirit EKPROEIVETE from the Father and the Son without falling into the ancient heresy of Sabellian Modalism, now called "oneness" or mistakenly "apostolic faith."

Again, this is choking on a gnat, because this is a hair so small that the ONLY people who are even able to see it without a microscope are theologians. It has NO EFFECT on how most people live their lives.

Would a person who believes one way feed the poor, while one who believes the other not? Would a person who believes one way lie, while one who believes the other not? THESE are the kinds of things Jesus taught about. How, specifically, does it affect how YOU live?
---StrongAxe on 12/10/19


//Please show any scripture the Eastern Orthodox was the original church?./... //

Orthodox is simply a label we wear to help people find us. (The word means "correct doctrine/glory", btw.)

Our name to OURSELVES is the Church of Christ, which even you must admit is Biblical.

The earthly part of the Orthodox Church is indeed visible.

What you are describing is a fantasy that was never heard of until the 19th century or so.

As the early Christians said, "Nobody can call God his Father or Christ his Savior unless he also calls the Church his mother."

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/19


** It split in half over a single word (filoque) in a doctrine so minor and esoteric, most people don't understand it or why it should be important. That word's presence or absence haz zero effect Christians live.**

We've had this conversation before.

To summarize, one CANNOT say the Holy Spirit EKPROEIVETE from the Father and the Son without falling into the ancient heresy of Sabellian Modalism, now called "oneness" or mistakenly "apostolic faith."

And for Eastern Christians, who don't use it, it has EVERYTHING to do with how we live in the Holy Spirit.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/19


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Please show any scripture the Eastern Orthodox was the original church? The BOC made without hands was/ is the only Church, does not have an earthly name like Orthodox or Roman Catholic, or Baptist etc. Christ is the head, and only those who have a personal relationship with Christ, those baptized into His death and raised up together with Him, a New Creature who's citizenship is in heaven, not the Middle East or Russia or Greece etc. are members of THIS CHURCH. THE ONLY CHURCH THAT MATTERS. The one Cluny openly scoffs at. The one Cluny blasphemes.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/19


Cluny:

You wrote: Orthodoxy IS the original Church

The original Church had no specific name, It split in half over a single word (filoque) in a doctrine so minor and esoteric, most people don't understand it or why it should be important. That word's presence or absence haz zero effect Christians live. Yet theologicans choked so hard on this gnat, they divided Christ for a millenium. Both sides insist THEY are the original and the other side is wrong.

Self-important theologicans divide Christ - cultic leaders who "discover" some new doctrine that is unimportant or leads to apostasy, or believers who leave a church that teaches abostasy but whose theologians refuse to recognize this.
---StrongAxe on 12/9/19


So this crazy idea that SALVATION under the NC is something the Orthodox decided to put in scripture? That's the most bazaar thing I've ever heard. The NEW CREATION IN CHRIST is what NT SALVATION IS ABOUT. Paul Peters John etc letters Epistles circulated the churches LONG LONG LONG BEFORE anyone chose to bind them together in a book. And it's like saying none of these individual epistles held truth until they were bound together. YIKES
---kathr4453 on 12/9/19


//Is Christ divided? NO HE IS NOT. SO STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE HIM.//

It's those who split from the Orthodox Church who are dividing Christ.

Orthodoxy IS the original Church, not the one you attend, kath.,

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/9/19


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My words are spirit and life. These are Gods words. Not orthodox words.

Anyone reading those words can obey and with obedience don't need to say...HAY WE THE ORTHODOX WERE THE FIRST DENOUNCING RACISM.

God denounced racism 2000 years ago, when He broke down the wall between Jew and Gentile making "IN HIM" ( not in the orthodox denomination) ONE NEW MAN, NEITHER JEW OR GENTILE.

Like I said,...SCRIPTURE DENOUNCES RACISM. I proved it posting scripture.

This false belief that Paul was Orthodox ..a denomination is proved in 1st Corinthians 3-4 to be a lie. Is Christ divided? NO HE IS NOT. SO STOP TRYING TO DIVIDE HIM.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/19


\\These verses don't belong to or are they exclusively Orthodox, \\

And just who do you think God used to decide what should be in the Bible?

Hint: it wasn't the church you attend (or perhaps stay away from).

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/6/19


I already did Clunky

These verses don't belong to or are they exclusively Orthodox, but are the WORD OF GOD. Many believe and live by this and don't even need to make a statement as though they created a belief all their own. At the beginning of the Church age, it was well preached there was no difference between Jew and Greek IN CHRIST. Because IN CHRIST you are a NEW CREATURE.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/19
---kathr4453 on 12/6/19


Ok Clunky, I proved you wrong. I posted the same verses first that Strongaxe did, he adding one in Romans saying the same thing as Galatians and Colossians. So why say I DARE YOU. You see, THIS kind of harassment from Cluny should stop. It serves no purpose here except proving he has issues. He can't read, doesn't understand posts and then makes false accusations...on every single blog...just to get some snarky remark in trying to start a food fight. I'm sure I'm not the only one getting sick of it. And I'm not the only one Cluny makes snarky comments to.
---kathr445 on 12/6/19


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Cluny:

The church should be free of racism, sexism, and classism:

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
---StrongAxe on 12/5/19


\\
So the answer to your question Cluny is the scriptures themselves address racism, bigotry etc. it's a no brainer. \\

Can you be specific about which ones do, kath?

Bet you can't.

I dare you to prove me wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/4/19


Even in the Gospels Jesus said TAKE, EAT...

1Corinthians 11: 24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

But take wasn't the question....
---kathr4453 on 12/4/19


So the answer to your question Cluny is the scriptures themselves address racism, bigotry etc. it's a no brainer.

Yours is like saying, "we are the first Church that has declared it's a sin to rob the poor."

Those IN CHRIST do not see race...we see Christ. It's called the perfect law of Liberty...freely loving others without prejudice.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/19


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From what I've been able to observe, it's Protestants who take communion. Other Christians receive it.
---JS1234 on 12/3/19


(Matthew 26:28) for this is My blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Cluny
In taking communion, you drink the Blood of Christ. Jesus said, the drinking of his blood is for the remission of sin.

If you receive remission of sin through communion, why do you confess your sins to a Priest?

My Grandmother was Catholic and I never understood this, and hope you can give me a better understanding.
---David on 12/3/19


These verses don't belong to or are they exclusively Orthodox, but are the WORD OF GOD. Many believe and live by this and don't even need to make a statement as though they created a belief all their own. At the beginning of the Church age, it was well preached there was no difference between Jew and Greek IN CHRIST. Because IN CHRIST you are a NEW CREATURE.


Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
---kathr4453 on 12/3/19


The Orthodox Church is the first one to declare racism to be not only a sin, but a heresy.

Has your group done that yet, kath?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/2/19


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Cluny's question is steeped in a false doctrine the Orthodox or RCC is the only true Church, and one must be in their church and members of their church baptized into their church to be saved. NO SUCH SCRIPTURE Supports this false doctrine.

We are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH, not by a church or church building or denomination. The same Gospel preached at Pentecost that saved thousands saves today. The same Gospel Paul preached at Mars Hill outside any church saves today.

The CHURCH is the BOC...not a building.

Cluny hates I post this, but squawk and insult all you want Cluny. Your post question is a LIE. Also sacraments do not save...JESUS SAVES. Sacraments are WORKS. And the word sacraments is not in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/19


It's true, but remember there are people like Steveng don't believe in 'buildings' known as Churches.

They want to have services in their own home. Plus, they want to even CONTROL God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/19

Cluny, no but maybe your inability to read and comprehend others post is the problem. Stop blaming others for your lack of reading. I just replied to Nicole's moronic post. Why did you come back with a moronic reply? Is this a Catholic/Orthodox issue, or is your kidney issues causing urine of the brain? If you want to continue to insult Cluny, EXPECT to get a taste of your own urine? All dirty cats need their nose rubbed into their own mess. Consider yours rubbed into your mess.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/19


\\Orthodox/Catholics thinks an earthly building is a church,\\

kath, why do you say things that have no basis in reality?

Is it your stroke that makes you do this?

\\When the people who are running the church are doing bad things, it's really hard to stay there and good conscience.
---JS1234 on 11/30/19\\

That can be said about any denomination, JS.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/1/19


Orthodox/Catholics thinks an earthly building is a church, and God gives wood power. YIKES However during the beginning of the CHURCH AGE The Apostles preached without any such building strapped to them, and thousands were saved...the very first day of Pentecost. They were MISSIONARIES who went into all countries and nations without a building strapped to their back....and thousands more were saved. We have missionaries today going into all parts of the world still preaching the word without a building strapped to their back. The CHURCH IS CHRIST AND HIS BODY...made without hands.

Even Abraham had no building made with hands yet had faith and is the father of our faith.

Sorry Orthodox/Catholics, WRONG AGAIN.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/19


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When the people who are running the church are doing bad things, it's really hard to stay there and good conscience.
---JS1234 on 11/30/19


Psalm 127:1 - Except the Lord build the house, They labour in vain to build it: Except the Lord keep the city, The watchman waketh but in vain.
---RichardC on 11/29/19


It's true, but remember there are people like Steveng don't believe in 'buildings' known as Churches.

They want to have services in their own home. Plus, they want to even CONTROL God.
---Nicole_Lacey on 11/29/19


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