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Is The Bible God's Words

A famous religious educator once said, "the Bible is not always God's words."

Any comments?

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John 8:35 and the servant abide th not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

Galatians 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


So let's conclude Pauls teaching that those IN CHRIST who's sins were done away IN CHRIST, who died to sin, set free from the power of sin ARE NOW SONS AND WILL ABIDE IN THE HOUSE FOREVER AND EVER AMEN. Praise God for all He gas done!
---kathr4453 on 12/27/19


Also David, please show scripture that says "free OF sin" . Scripture says "free FROM sin" . Do you see a difference in these two phrases? Or do you think they are saying the same thing?

Or if you believe there is a difference please tell us what it means to be free OF sin, and please back that up with scripture. If your belief is all in your head not CLEARLY in scripture, USING THOSE EXACT WORDS, since free FROM SIN is CLEARLY STATED, could yours be of some private interpretation?
---kathr4453 on 12/27/19


David, what do you think being set free from sin means? It's also not what I think it means but what GOD SAID HE DID.

So David do you still sin..that is the question, and have YOu achieved sinless perfection through your own efforts? Or have YOU through the Holy Spirit put to death the sins aka deeds of the flesh aka our old Adam ? Romans 6:1-10, 8:9-13*** Galatians 2:20-21, 5:21-25.

Have YOU become the righteousness of Christ? Why or why not? Why do you continue to question the WORD OF GOD? any why continue to accuse..Romans 8:1-2
---kathr4453 on 12/27/19


David I find your question annoying simply because I gave scripture showing what it means to be set free from sin. Paul through the anointing and authority given him has told us how t be set free from sin. It's in ALL his epistles in some form or fashion.

So I feel it's arrogant of you to question Paul, or even question others who understand and have obeyed what God gave Paul to preach.

If you don't understand being set free, it's because YOU have chosen to take another way. I've already chosen what to obey and believe BY FAITH,taking God at His word, that dying with Christ is what set me free from the bondage of sin.

I follow,the WORD OF GOD and the Holy Spirit has verified and reiterated this again and again.
---kath4453 on 12/27/19


Kathrine
What do you think it means, to be Free of sin?
---David on 12/27/19




Also these verses clearly show the Trinity, and HOW The Trinity works. If you have a spirit telling you things NOT IN SCRIPTURE, and not pointing to Christ I would suggest a pause. We are exercised to discern both good and evil, and exercised in discerning that between the Holy Spirit and demons who can imitate . The way Satan gets his hooks into you is coming across first as righteous so you don't question and then wammo....these guys then are told to murder DR's at abortion clinics etc. always ask the Lord for scripture to back up His leading with no less than two to three scriptures. HE WILL DO IT. I PROMISE.
---kathr4453 on 12/27/19


John 16:13And when he shall come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/19


David, doesn't Colossians 2 for one place say our sin was done away in Christ ? And doesn't Romans 6 also teach that we died to sin when we died with Christ. SO it would appear David you have not obeyed Romans 6 ......as I have pointed out here many times YOU have a problem with the deeper power of the CROSS. I'm curious why your Holy Spirit didn't tell you or teach you that ? My Holy Spirit has. Hummmmmm.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/19


Those IN CHRIST are now sons and not servants re The law. The CROSS re our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life has set us free from sin. We are now servants of righteousness.
Romans 6:7For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Romans 6:18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 6:20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

Romans 6:22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

Romans 8:2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
---kath453 on 12/26/19


//
Cluny "EGW didn't adhere to it, herself. either."

I believe you are incorrect. Please back your comments up with facts rather than mere assertions.//

EGW bore false witness against Roman Catholics in her writings, such as her claim that the Pope is the Antichrist because he changed the worship day from Saturday to Sunday, which pope she never says.

She claimed that paganism had a weekly worship day on Sunday, which it did not.

Christ is born! Glorify Him!
---Cluny on 12/26/19




you seem to be saying one must achieve sinless perfection before they are saved.---kathr4453

Kathrine
After reading the Lords teaching below, does it appear those who sin, are saved?
(John 8:34-35) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever, but the Son abides for ever.
---David on 12/26/19


Cluny "EGW didn't adhere to it, herself. either."

I believe you are incorrect. Please back your comments up with facts rather than mere assertions.


---jerry6593 on 12/26/19


kathr4453:

You wrote: God doesn't punish those not saved.

So what was that "let's kill everyone on the planet except six people, and almost all the animals too" Flood? That sure sounds like punishment to me, and all of the people killed were unsaved. Or did I somehow miss something?
---StrongAxe on 12/26/19


And every time I committed this sin, God would punish me,...Every Time! Why was the sin there? It was there to simply show me, I was a slave to sin. I was not saved. (John 8:34-35)
---David on 12/24/19

David, I'm so sorry you don't understand the Gospel. God doesn't punish those not saved. Hebrews 12:5-8 ,,Hebrews 5:8

1) you seem to be saying one must achieve sinless perfection before they are saved. WRONG

2) That God categorizes sin ...yet sin is everything short of the glory of God...not just one particular sin in your life.

3) that when you obeyed Romans 6 1-10 somehow God accidentally left off that one sin when you died to sin??? WRONG AGAIN
---kathr4453 on 12/24/19


Again this is in the WORD OF GOD, Not some private message the Holy Spirit gives to only certain people in secret and not to others. --kathr4453

I agree, the conviction of the Holy Spirit is available to all who receive him. And that which I have learned from the Holy Spirit, I have always found written in the Bible...,Well at least in most translations.

But someone who reads a Bible, without being guided by the Holy Spirit, will more than likely, end up following one of many false doctrines. But its not for me to point my finger at those who do, but to show them the foolishness, and hope they turn.
---David on 12/25/19


Not sure what he meant. The Bible does have history in it. But that history show us about GOD. It does have poems and other points in it.

What he could mean is that inspired men wrote the Bible. That the words are human but the thoughts are on GOD and who he is. But I cannot tell from just this phrase.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/24/19


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If one believes one is saved, 1 and 4 feel the same, so how to tell the difference?---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
(1 John 3:9-10) KJV is as it is written. I know, because it happened to me. The desire to sin, suddenly disappears, when you are born of God. No desire....No more sin.

I, like many believers, had never confessed my sin before God. But this didnt completely stop the Holy Spirit from convicting me of, A sin. Now there was a lot of sin I couldnt see in my life, because I walked in darkness, but I was only convicted of the One sin.

And every time I committed this sin, God would punish me,...Every Time! Why was the sin there? It was there to simply show me, I was a slave to sin. I was not saved. (John 8:34-35)
---David on 12/24/19


Again this is in the WORD OF GOD, Not some private message the Holy Spirit gives to only certain people in secret and not to others. THAT WAS DAVIDS CONVERSATION many here were objecting to. These verses called THE WORD are to ALL OPENLY, without partiality. So David, you don't have some special hearing or leading you want others to think you have.

James 2:15-17

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled, notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body, what doth it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
---kathr4453 on 12/24/19


Why do you ask ME about a "No works doctrine"? I frequently quote Matthew 25 "I was hungry and you fed me", etc. where we are judged by our works.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
You believe, Good works plays a role in our salvation? If so, I am happy to hear that, for you are miles ahead of most.
---David on 12/23/19


David:

If one is born of God, the Holy Spirit leads one into all truth (1). Many who are flawed realize they are flawed, and seek God (2), or don't (3). But many are so deluded, they think they are saved and hearing from God, but aren't (4).

If one believes one is saved, 1 and 4 feel the same, so how to tell the difference? If what one hears conforms to the Bible, 1 is likely. If it contradicts scripture, 1 is impossible, so one is left with 4. If someone believes "feelings they get from God" are more important than scripture, they're definitely 4.

Why do you ask ME about a "No works doctrine"? I frequently quote Matthew 25 "I was hungry and you fed me", etc. where we are judged by our works.
---StrongAxe on 12/22/19


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And what makes you think that StrongAxe was not fulfilled your criteria?---Cluny

My criteria? The criteria comes from Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit simply does not teach against what Jesus taught. StrongAxe and many others believe in a No Works doctrine.

Jesus Christ is the author of Salvation. Can you show me anywhere, in the Authors teachings, where Jesus taught a No Works doctrine?
---David on 12/22/19


//Your teachings from the Holy Spirit will begin with the conviction of sin, and then, after you are born of God, then you will be taught by the Holy Spirit, as a teacher.//

And what makes you think that StrongAxe was not fulfilled your criteria?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/22/19


You STILL miss the point. Many people do exactly what you suggested, and are sure they are "fully in the light of God".---StrongAxe

I understand, but it is a very hard question to answer. If you were with me, I could simply show you, and you could see for yourself. So, I was taking the opportunity to tell folks what they must do, to learn directly from the Holy Spirit.

Your teachings from the Holy Spirit will begin with the conviction of sin, and then, after you are born of God, then you will be taught by the Holy Spirit, as a teacher.

The Holy Spirit is present in those who teach what the Spirit has taught them, a presence of peace and Joy, a presence you can feel.
---David on 12/22/19


SIN is in the Word of God so the Holy Spirit is working off the WORD OF GOD. Forgivness is only possible through Jesus death and resurrection, and we know it is the FATHER who is the one forgiving us our sin...who come through His Son, where the Holy Spirit enlightens all these truths that are first in THE WORD OF GOD.

So actually David is just saying something in a convoluted way, but not anything we are not also saying in a more accurate way.

Yes Satan can and does transform himself into preacher of righteousness 2 Corinthians 12:14.

Always take what you feel the Holy Spirit is saying to you and hold it up to the Word of God. Don't be shy in asking the Lord to clarify its Him, and ask for one or two other scriptures.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/19


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Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Galatians 2:20-21 say we live by the faith of Christ who lives in me. (sic)

Here's the problem I've always has with David. Showing him these verses means nothing to him. Yet he believes his faith is in the Holy Spirit, yet no scripture ever says our faith is in the Holy Spirit.

David lives in his own reality and no amount of grounded scripture phases him.

David please again tell us what denomination you follow. Is it ONENESS Pentecostal? Or just the Gospel according to David?
---kath4453 on 12/22/19


David:

You STILL miss the point. Many people do exactly what you suggested, and are sure they are "fully in the light of God". Yet many believe God tells them different things, even though those may be mutually contradictory.

So, it is possible to sincerely believe that you are "fully in the light of God", yet be mistaken. For example, Mormons teach that you should pray to God, and ask Him whether the Book of Mormon is the Word of God. Most Mormons would tell you that they have done that and gotten a "yet" answer back.

This is why there are literally thousands of Christian denominations in the world.

God won't deceive you, but Satan CAN deceive you into thinking you're hearing from God.
---StrongAxe on 12/22/19


//cluny: There is one section of Scripture that was both spoken and written personally by God. It is found in Exodus 20. Unfortunately, many Christians do not adhere to it.//

EGW didn't adhere to it, herself. either.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/21/19


How do YOU know with 100% certainty that what YOU hear is actually from the Holy Spirit?---StrongAxe

If I use words, folks will argue against me, so....if you are willing to volunteer, God will show you. He can be much more persuasive than me. He has even converted some of the atheists I have witnessed to, using the suggestion below.

Get alone...down on your knees, and earnestly, ask God to forgive you of all your sins. He knows what you have done, so there is no need to give him an itemized list. After that prayer, you will be fully in the light of God.

After this prayer, you will see evil where you saw no evil, and sin, where there was no sin. Because now, you are under conviction of the Holy Spirit.
---David on 12/21/19


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Our relationship is to the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. And only those IN CHRIST have the Holy Spirit. Ephesians makes this clear as well as Galatians, Colossians, Romans, 1 and 2 Corinthians.

David it appears seems to think he is either an OT PROPHET, PRIEST OR KING.

The promise of the Spirit given in the NC is never said it was given separately from the Father and Son.

The Holy Spirit TODAY is baptizing believers INTO CHRIST, only after one is crucified with Christ Romans 6-8, Colossians 3:1-4 1 Corinthians 12-14.

I believe Quakers believe as David, who sit and wait to quake as evidence of the Holy Spirit. It's not scriptural.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/19


David:

You wrote: I follow what the Holy Spirit says to me, not what someone says the Holy Spirit said to them.

This is precisely my point. How do YOU know with 100% certainty that what YOU hear is actually from the Holy Spirit?

There are many, many people who sincerely believe that they are hearing what the Holy Spirit is telling them, but since they hear contradictory messages, and God is not the author of confusion, most of them must be wrong. How can any of them, or any of us, know who is actually right?

One way to find out it to see whether what we hear conforms to what is in Scripture. If it doesn't, one of the two must be wrong, and guess which one that is?
---StrongAxe on 12/20/19


cluny: There is one section of Scripture that was both spoken and written personally by God. It is found in Exodus 20. Unfortunately, many Christians do not adhere to it.


---jerry6593 on 12/20/19


StrongAxe
I follow what the Holy Spirit says to me, not what someone says the Holy Spirit said to them.

The Holy Spirit,.......essentially, teaches us what pleases God and what displeases God. Important, because God is the one who decides who will be saved. The Holy Spirit convicts you for sin, he does not tell someone else to tell you.

But I do understand your statement, for there are many churches who teach according to what the teachers claim the Holy Spirit has taught them.
Unfortunately, false doctrines can mold the bible into anything they want, and this is why you need to learn to listen, listen to what the Spirit says to you.
---David on 12/20/19


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David, the Holy Spirit leads us into all Truth, and is our teacher. Jesus says I AM THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE. The Word has always been the voice if God. The Prophets in the OT spoke what GOD SAID to them to speak to the people. TODAY Jesus has spoken to us....so says Hebrews 1-2 and you seem to fail to understand FAITH began immediately after the fall of Adam. Same faith we have today. Cain and Able, Noah Job, Abraham didn't have A NT BIBLE, yet are just as saved as we are today.

Are you denying this truth?
---kathr4453 on 12/20/19


//he bible CONTAINS some words that God spoke, but it also contains many of the words/ideas of man.//

Bravo. That's what I'm getting at.

//Jhn 1:14 And the Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, ....//

And do you think this means that Jesus is the perfect embodiment of everything in the Bible?

If so, you're wrong.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/20/19


StrongAxe
I follow what the Holy Spirit says to me, not what someone says the Holy Spirit said to them.

The Holy Spirit,.......essentially, teaches us what pleases God and what displeases God. Important, because God is the one who decides who will be saved. The Holy Spirit convicts you for sin, he does not tell someone else to tell you.

But I do understand your statement, for there are many churches who teach according to what the teachers claim the Holy Spirit has taught them.
Unfortunately, false doctrines can mold the bible into anything they want, and this is why you need to learn to listen, listen to what the Spirit says to you.
---David on 12/20/19


David:

If one preacher comes up to you and says "The Holy Spirit told me X", and another says, "No. The Holy Spirit told me Y", which one would you follow? Clearly, they both can't be right. How would you know which one was wrong (or maybe both?). Both sincerely belive they are right, but at most one is right. It is possible to sincerely believe that the revelation one is receiving is from the Holy Spirit, yet be wrong about that. How can one objectively tell if you're right? By seeing if what you are hearing matches the Bible. I.e. the Bible is the ultimate authority.

Paul himself said "If anyone brings a different gospel than what I bring you, even an angel from heaven, he is to be condemned".
---StrongAxe on 12/20/19


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David I have no idea what you are talking about or falsely accusing others again out of nowhere.---kathr4453

I stated we are to be guided by Gods Holy Spirit, and You and StrongAxe seemed to disagree with that statement. If I am wrong...My sincere apology.

Kathrine, I simply pointed out the obvious. The bible was not in print for many years after Jesus ascended into heaven. So...logically, people were being guided by something other than the Bible. And I said they were guided by Gods Holy Spirit.

Do you agree with that? If not, what was guiding the believer before the Bibles availability?
---David on 12/20/19


Proverbs 30:5


Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

David I have no idea what you are talking about or falsely accusing others again out of nowhere. I believe THE WORD WAS /IS God from the very beginning and as we see King David testify to in the PSALMS along with over 100 verses in the OT long before any NT books were bound together. THE WORD of the OT was made Flesh.

The Bereans searched the scriptures daily were not NT Epistles. Scribes were before printing presses ....
---kathr4453 on 12/19/19


The bible CONTAINS some words that God spoke, but it also contains many of the words/ideas of man.

Jhn 1:14 And the Word BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth, we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.


Eph 1:13 who have HEARD the word of truth, THE GOSPEL OF YOUR SALVATION were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,


Rev 19:13 and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.
---faithforfaith on 12/19/19


Would any purpose be served by pointing out that personal copies of the Bible were nearly impossible until the invention of the printing press?---Cluny

I agree, but as you see StrongAxe and Kathrine believe folks followed the Bible after Jesus ascended, not the Holy Spirit.
---David on 12/19/19


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David:

The Wikipedia article on the Vulgate mentions: "After 1300, when the booksellers of Paris began to produce commercial single volume Vulgate bibles in large numbers, ...",
which shows that Bibles were in large distribution 300 years before the KJV.

Cluny:

Gutenberg invented the printing press in 1440, and the Gutenberg Bible, an edition of the Vulgate, was mass produced in 1450, almost 200 years before the KJV.
---StrongAxe on 12/19/19


To the contrary, the Old Testament was complete by around 400 B.C., and with the exceptions of the Epistles (which were written around the middle of the first century A.D.), most New Testament books were written towards the end of the first century and start of the second - i.e. within around a century of Jesus.---StrongAxe

So your conclusion is, the Bible was readily available, for the private use of the believer, for most of those 1600 years?
Ooookay!
---David on 12/19/19


Would any purpose be served by pointing out that personal copies of the Bible were nearly impossible until the invention of the printing press?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/19/19


Scripture itself teaches us about sin. The Holy Spirit convicts of the sin God has clearly defined in His Word.

Now the Holy Spirit has taught me Jesus died for my sin, and washed me in His Blood.

Now the Holy Spirit teaches me how to walk in the NEW MAN, so that I don't sin. Romans 4-8. Totally awesome how the Holy Spirit used the Word of God to ground me in the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/19


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David:

You wrote: Jesus ascended some 1600 years before believers had access to the Bible.

This illustrates a popular and particularly English/American conceit that the Bible somehow suddenly sprung forth out of nothing in 1611 under King James, and there was no Bible before then. To the contrary, the Old Testament was complete by around 400 B.C., and with the exceptions of the Epistles (which were written around the middle of the first century A.D.), most New Testament books were written towards the end of the first century and start of the second - i.e. within around a century of Jesus.

Tyndale had an earlier English translation, and there were also many other translations in other languages before that.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/19


It's interesting how you always jump over and around THE CROSS.
---kathr4453


We simply have a different understanding of the Power of the cross.

On the Cross, Jesus became a sacrifice for Our sin. His sacrifice, made it possible for us to have a relationship with God the Father, because through the cross, we can be forgiven of sin.

And without the confession of sin, there is no forgiveness. Doesnt Jesus clearly teach this power, through the confession of sin, in the Lords Prayer?

StrongAxe
The Holy Spirit is your teacher. Confess your sin before God, and see what he teaches you about sin.
---David on 12/18/19


Also for those who deny the deity of Christ.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/19


David, chapter 1 explains chapter 2. Taking one verse out of context is not studying to show yourself approved unto God rightly dividing the word of truth.

Paul didn't write in chapter and verse,( nor in a "Confucius says" format) but as a letter with beginning and end, subject etc. it begins in Chapter on and absolutely does not say the Holy Spirit teaches anything apart from the very core of the Gospel, which is Christ Crucified. The Holy Spirit is a witness to the cross. Doesn't John say, The Spirit, the Water and Blood Are ONE. 1John5:8 1 Cor 1....THE CROSS. It's interesting how you always jump over and around THE CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/19


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David:

The nice thing about a written record (i.e. scripture) is that, barring copying errors, everyone has access to the same unchanging truth for many generations, and the words don't change.

When one relies on oral tradition (e.g. Israel before Moses, and Christianity before the scriptures were written), stories can change when passed by word of mouth.

Also, when one relies on inspiration by the Spirit to know truth, this is entirely subjective, because what you think the Spirit is telling YOU, and what I think the spirit is telling ME, may be very different, and we can't both be right. The delusion "I have special revelation from God because he spoke to me" is responsible for the many cults in the world.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/19


Kathrine and StrongAxe
Jesus ascended some 1600 years before believers had access to the Bible. What guided those believers, born, before the Bible was in print?

Is this Heresy too?
(1 Corinthians 2:13) These things also we speak, not in the words which mans wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Ghost teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
---David on 12/17/19


2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Funny it's called THE WORD OF TRUTH.

Interestingly enough 1st John 1:1-10 as all the Apostles who personally spent time with Jesus were given the authority of the scriptures, as the Prophets had with the OLD. Between these two groups all the truth we need is right there in THEIR writings.

Anyone who tells you you need some scholar to interpret for you is not in scripture. These epistles were written to uneducated Gentiles and unscholarly Jews. Just those who's faith was in Christ...who Christ is made unto us wisdom and knowledge (sic) 1 Cor 1:30
---kathr4453 on 12/17/19


kathr4453:

Yet most Christians believe otherwise. Catholics and Orthodox put church tradition on equal footing with scripture, as scripture canon itself was established by tradition (i.e. the Bible has no index). Ecstatics (e.g. Pentecostals) believe strongly in personal revelation (i.e. their own feelings about what they think the Holy Spirit is telling them is more important than scripture). Even other Protestants believe in subjective interpretation of scripture - otherwise, there wouldn't be literally thousands of Christian denominations insisting that THEIR way is THE right way.
---StrongAxe on 12/16/19


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The Bible may be a good source of reference, but it was not meant to be our guide. This is the very reason why we receive Gods Holy Spirit. David/////


That is really a strange comment. The Holy Spirit is not an independent contractor teaching anything that is not in scripture. The Holy Spirit is focused son empowering Gods Word.

Jesus points to the Father, the Holy Spirit points to Jesus..this is how the Trinity works. Davids comment here is heresy. Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and LIFE. THE WORD( who is Jesus Christ was made flesh...
---kathr4453 on 12/16/19


It shows us the way to live with God.---Samuelbb7

And thats what happened to the church, causing the many doctrines we have today, instead of the one which comes from God.

The Bible may be a good source of reference, but it was not meant to be our guide. This is the very reason why we receive Gods Holy Spirit.

The teachings of the Holy Spirit can not tainted by the teachings of men. But we can not say the same thing about biblical teachings, which come from men, as proven by our many doctrines.

Unfortunately, the teachings of men tend to guide believers around the teachings of the Holy Spirit, so they do not even know his voice.
---David on 12/16/19


RichardC was addressing David's post, as to the Deity of Christ. If perhaps Cluny was paying attention here he would have seen that and being confrontational to RichardC would not have been necessary.

Let's get Strongaxe in here to settle this once and for all. I'll bet he'll say on Cluny's threads it's wrong to change the subject, but anyone else's threads it just happens and OH WELL to that.

I understood RichardC post, strange why Cluny didn't. Maybe no one wants to beat a dead horse Cluny And could care less what this no name FAMOUS EDUCATOR said. The only one that matters is what GOD SAID, and the Holy Spirit will let us know personally what God says to us. Just don't worry about it.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/19


So many people have said for ages. Votaire said Bible will only be in museums. The Bible is the word of GOD. It shows us the way to live with God.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/15/19


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//
Hebrews 2:9 - But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels, For the suffering of death crowed with glory and honor, that he, By the grace of God , might taste death for everybody,

2 Timothy 2:7
---RichardC on 12/14/19//

And this has what to do with the question I actually asked?

Please explain.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/15/19


Hebrews 2:9 - But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels, For the suffering of death crowed with glory and honor, that he, By the grace of God , might taste death for everybody,

2 Timothy 2:7
---RichardC on 12/14/19


Now, do you DENY that the Savior is begotten of the Father?---Cluny

I believe, Jesus is the only begotten Son of God the Father.

You answered, what I meant to be a rhetorical question, now if you would please answer the first question I asked.

Matthew 20:23) And He said unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared by My Father.

Cluny
Why would Jesus say is not mine to give, if he is God? If he was God, would it not be his to give?
---David on 12/13/19


Philippians 2:6 - Who, being in the form of God thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Philippians 2:7 - But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant , and was made in the likeness of men.
Philippians 2:8 - And being found in fashion as a man humble himself, and became obedient to death, of the cross,----- >

Philippians 2:11 - And that every tongue
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, To the glory of God the Father,

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, One Faith , One Baptism,
---RichardC on 12/12/19


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// The Baptist believe in a secret rapture, if they turned it into a creed, would you believe it too?//

Not all Baptists are Darbian Dispensationalists.

Even the very word "Baptist" covers a wide range of belief--and disbelief.

Now, do you DENY that the Savior is begotten of the Father?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/12/19


Jesus IS God, begotten of the FATHER, "before all ages," as the Nicene Creed says. ---Cluny

(Matthew 20:23) And He said unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared by My Father.

Cluny
Why would Jesus say is not mine to give, if he is God? If he was God, would it not be his to give?

The Nicene Creed was adopted 300 years after the creation of the Church...meaning it is just one of the many doctrines. The Baptist believe in a secret rapture, if they turned it into a creed, would you believe it too?
---David on 12/12/19


Even Paul,said in Corinthians...these are my words not Gods concerning something ...

HOW to get saved from the wrath to come IS IN SCRIPTURE. How to live IN CHRIST is in scripture. Everything we need to know about our Christian life is in scripture .

Why call out the gnats here? Just more gnats to cause fights.

God also said to avoid foolish questions as they cause division. Why is Cluny's questions always questions that cause division? It's intentional. Avoid at all costs and OBEY GOD.

No one gives two flips what some mysterious famous religious educator said. Sounds like something TRUMP would say. These mysterious no name people saying this or that. YIKES!
---kathr4453 on 12/12/19


The Bible contains prophecies of future events written hundreds, sometimes thousands of years in advance which have been fulfilled and/or will be fulfilled. God has a long-term prophetic plan for the nation of Israel which will be fulfilled. God has kept them alive as a nation, despite the efforts of many powerful nations to destroy them.
"Religious educators" like anyone else can say whatever they like.
---michael_e on 12/11/19


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RichardC:

You wrote: 2 Timothy 3:16 ...

That gives one of the properties of scripture, but doesn't actually define scripture. For example, if someone asked you whether or not the book of Ecclesiasticus is scripture (Catholics and Orthodox say it is, Protestants say it isn't), Timothy would not be helpful in answering that question.


David:

Very good point! Just the other day, I found out that Daniel 11:38 talks about the Fourth Beast worshiping "the god of forces" (KJV), but other translations say "god of fortresses", which matches the Hebrew.
---StrongAxe on 12/11/19


//Jesus was our example of one born of God. Did he sin, or did he just not make a practice of sinning?//

WRONG.

Jesus IS God, begotten of the FATHER, "before all ages," as the Nicene Creed says.

**So the word is not Hebrew or Greek. So seeing it's Latin points to another RCC orthodox claim THEY ALONE control these HOLY BOOKS. However aren't some of these EXTRA HOLY BOOKS in question? **

WRONG AGAIN, KATH!.

These are OT books are from the Hebrew, translated into the GREEK Septuagint.

Orthodoxy has NEVER said the letter of Barnabas is canonical.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/11/19


2 Timothy 3:16 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God , And is profitable For doctrine, for reproof for correction, For instruction in righteousness,

Job 32:8 - But there is a spirit in man : and Inspiration of The Almighty giveth him understanding

2 Peter 1:21 - For prophecy came not in old times by the will of man: But Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost,
---RichardC on 12/11/19


Example
(1 John 3:9) CSBWhosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him, and he is not able to sin, because he is born of God.

(1 John 3:9) CEB Those born from God dont practice sin because Gods DNA remains in them. They cant sin because they are born from God.

Does not commit sin....and Does not practice sin have two entirely different meanings. One means to cease sinning, the other implies those born of God do will sin, just not habitually.

Jesus was our example of one born of God. Did he sin, or did he just not make a practice of sinning?
---David on 12/11/19


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Snark attacks are not necessary.

The definition of Bible comes from Latin biblia sacra "holy books". The plural "biblia" was often improperly interpreted as singular feminine, hence the old Anglo-Latin singular "biblia". The root "biblia" is shared with words such as bibliographer or bibliophilia, unrelated to the Bible.

So Cluny failed to answer a simple question. One must first know the definition of BIBLE before arguing.

So the word is not Hebrew or Greek. So seeing it's Latin points to another RCC orthodox claim THEY ALONE control these HOLY BOOKS. However aren't some of these EXTRA HOLY BOOKS in question?

The Book of Barnabas for example is NOT THE WORD OF GOD.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/19


Cluny:

Every translation is necessarily influenced by translator bias, as there is generally no exact one-to-one correspondence between words in one language and another.

In heavily inflected languages, words carry additional metadata (e.g. number, gender, case, etc.) that are lost in uninflected languages like English. For example, in English, "you" can mean one man, one woman, multiple men, or multiple women. In Hebrew, each of these is a different word.

Also, many words have nuances that don't translate well. E.g. in Hebrew, dogs are considered unclean, so calling someone a dog is calling them unclean, which is lost in English.

Bias becomes problematic when it's deliberately introduced (e.g. in the NWT).
---StrongAxe on 12/10/19


//With all the translations, translating the bible to match their particular doctrine, I hardly think it could still be called Gods word. Translated to say what their itching ears want to hear.//

The only one I know that matches your description is the JW's New World [mis-]translation.

Which one or ones did you have in mind?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/19


With all the translations, translating the bible to match their particular doctrine, I hardly think it could still be called Gods word. Translated to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Too many people make the mistake of allowing themselves to be guided by the Bible, instead of being guided by Gods Holy Spirit. A Bible can be molded to fit whatever doctrine a believer chooses, the Holy Spirit can not.
---David on 12/10/19


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Are you saying that you don't know what the word "Bible" means, kath?

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 12/10/19


What exactly is the definition of THE BIBLE?
---kathr4453 on 12/9/19


I agree with that statement.
---JS1234 on 12/7/19


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