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Examine Religious Experience

Is there someone who is qualified to help me "examine" my religious "experiences" and edit my documentations(photos videos) so that I may understand decipher and become more ready for the tasks I think I may been summoned to engage in ?

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Maybe you just don't understand what it means, just like you didn't understand what the Deity of Christ means.---kathr4453

Kathryn
The Deity of Christ, according to your doctrine, is what I am trying to grasp. According to you, Gods salvation message is a Mystery to everyone who doesnt believe as you do. Christ is called the Author of Salvation, and yet, your message is not located anywhere in his Gospel.

I understand the Bible, but a mystery like yours, is hard to understand. Paul wouldnt even understand it, though you believe it came from Paul.
---David on 4/1/20


David, you believe in redemption through keeping the commandments as we have gone round and round about this for quite some time. Maybe you just don't understand what it means, just like you didn't understand what the Deity of Christ means.

And Steveng, when Jesus spoke those words, where exactly is He saying He is not God incarnate? AKA The "BEGOTTEN" SON OF GOD. You may want to review Philippians 2:6 as well. You guys have thrown out the majority of scripture.YIKES.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/20


So, what Jesus explicitly said to Mary was a lie?

Allow me to explain what John wrote about the "Word." There surely are literal truths in scripture, but the Hebrew language is poetic, it's full of metaphors, similes and analogies. We recognize God by the words he used. Jesus was the fulfillment of God's words. The "Word" in John was an analogy to describe Jesus by the deeds he performed. A person learns right from wrong by the words he was taught. The person became the person from what he was taught as a young child.

Besides, how can a Father and the son be one? Only in spirit. My mom used to tell me, "you're just like your father."
---Steveng on 3/30/20


I'll bet those who reject Jesus Christ is God made Flesh also reject redemption through His Blood.---kathr4453

StrongAxe
You know Kathryn better than I, so can you tell me how she comes to this conclusion?
---David on 3/31/20


I'm one with God in Christ however my blood can't cleans heaven and earth and sin. No angel, or human's blood can. And angels don't have blood....blood so pure and sinless to even take away sin, much less be PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD. Why do you explain away the WORD who IS GOD made flesh for the whole purpose of redemption.

Like I said, these folks explaining away THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION don't believe in redemption through the blood. WE ARE GODS PURCHASED POSESSION. EPHESIANS 1:7, 1:14, Acts 17:11, Acts 20:28. Colossians 1:14 . There are not going to be two entirely different groups...YIKES?

RichardC also posted amazing scripture stating Jesus is God ..go back and look. Either you BELIEVE aka FAITH, or you don't.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/20




I'll bet those who reject Jesus Christ is God made Flesh also reject redemption through His Blood.---kathr4453

StrongAxe
You know Kathryn better than I, so can you tell me how she comes to this conclusion?
---David on 3/31/20


As posted in another blog
Was Jesus a ventriloquist when the Father spoke from heaven after Jesus was baptized in the river? Was Jesus praying to himself all the times he was praying? And on the cross when Jesus said, "Father, why have you forsaken me."?

So, is Jesus God himself?
---Steveng on 3/31/20


"One" does not mean "One and the same". It means "unified", not "identical".

John 10:30: I and my Father are one.

-BUT-

John 17:11: ... Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

John 17:21: That they all may be one, as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

We are to be "one" IN THE SAME WAY Jesus and his father are "one". If "one" here meant "one and the same", all Christians would be identical, and the same person, which is clearly not the came.
---StrongAxe on 3/30/20


1 John 5:7 - For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, The Word, And the Holy Spirit: and these Three are One.

John 1:14 - And The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, Full of Grace and Truth.

Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism

Deuteronomy 6:4 - Hear ,O Israel: The Lord Our God is One Lord.

Deuteronomy 4:39 - Know therefore this day, and Consider it in thine Heart , That the Lord he is God in Heaven above, and upon the Earth beneath: there is none else,

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death : But the gift of God is eternal Life through Jesus Christ Our Lord.


John 14:9
---RichardC on 3/29/20


Many who believe in the Trinity are not ONENESS. The WORD , the 2 person of the Trinity was made flesh in order to communicate with man, and also die for man. The Holy Spirit is also God yet no one seems to go off the deep end here.

Just because our finite human minds cannot grasp it doesn't mean those who can't have to explain it away.

But we do know, in the end EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND CONFESS JESUS CHRIST IS LORD TO THE GLORY OF THE FATHER. "LORD" HERE MEANS GOD. So if you don't have FAITH in just taking God at His Word now, you will have to one day later with consequence.

I'll bet those who reject Jesus Christ is God made Flesh also reject redemption through His Blood. It seems to appear that way.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/20




Jesus explicitly said to Mary: "I ascend unto MY FATHER, and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD, and YOUR GOD." How do you explain this quote?
---Steveng on 3/29/20


StrongAxe
Okay, Thank you, thats one of the verses I wanted to see.
It does say Father, But Jesus definitely acknowledges someone greater than himself in heaven, while he was here on Earth. Why?

They must have asked themselves this question, and I was wondering who they believe he was talking to.
---David on 3/30/20


David:

The "God" of the Old Testament is the one whom Jesus refers to as "The Father". Jesus always refers to himself as "The Son".

Well, except for Isaiah 9:6:
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Oneness Christians (who are anti-trinitarians), such as the United Pentecostal Church, believe the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all one and the same, which scripture definitely does not teach.
---StrongAxe on 3/29/20


Can someone tell us, how Jesus can be God the Father and also sit at the right hand of God? Tell us who Jesus prayed to, who he called Father in his prayers?

If we can see scripture that gives us the answers to these questions, perhaps we can be convinced to see it your way.
---David on 3/29/20


Amen RichardC.

Just more and more PROOF in the Word of God.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/20


John 13:13 - Ye call me master and Lord: Ye say well for so I AM

Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM that I AM and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me to you.

Titus 2:13 - Looking for the blessed hope, and Glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ,

Hosea 3:14 - Yet I AM the Lord God from the Land of Egypt : Thou shalt know no god but me, For there is no Saviour beside me,

John 10:30
---RichardC on 3/28/20


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Great verses Jason. Those are awesome. We know the Apostles didn't get it wrong. The Watered down social Gospel has.

Welcome to CN. WE NEED YOU AND MORE LIKE YOU HERE in defence of THE GOSPEL.

God Bless you.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/20


No one but GOD created, as we see in Hebrews 11:3 the Worlds were framed by the WORD of God. We understand this by faith in His written word. Colossians 1:16 and Hebrews 11:3 support one another along with John 1:1-3. THREE TRUTHS one cannot deny. To make Jesus less than God is to also say Jesus was a created being who could create. WRONG. ALSO, No one but GOD can forgive sin. Jesus by His own BLOOD, and not just an advocate for God. There is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ who is God incarnate.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
---kathr4453 on 3/28/20


kathr4453:

Yes, it's true Jesus never rebuked anyone for worshiping him (unlike angels, who DID rebuke people for worshiping them - which is a pretty good way to disqualify Jesus from being Michael!) However, he never suggested or commanded that anyone worship him either.

It's curious there are some indications that Jesus is God, but also some that he isn't, e.g.

Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19: "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God"

Mark 13:32, Matthew 24:36: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."

This is why many things are mysteries, instead of nice, pat answers.
---StrongAxe on 3/28/20


Psalm 110:1, Matthew 22:44, and Mark 12:36:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.---StrongAxe


Perfect verse StrongAxe.
God says,...Until I make thine enemies thy footstool, Jesus will sit at right hand of God.
Has God done this yet?
No.

If Jesus and God are one figuratively, why would Jesus sit at the right hand of God?? When we pray, Do we pray to God...or to Jesus?
We pray to God, in the name of his Son, Jesus.
---David on 3/28/20


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In the Gospels many came and worshipped Jesus aka Lord with a capital L. No one was ever rebuked by Jesus for worshipping Him. If Jesus came to obey and fulfil the Law believe me this would have been a HUGE ISSUE as that would make Jesus a SINNER Himself breaking the first commandment . I AM another name for God Jesus referred to Himself over and over . IAM THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE. I AM THE RESURRECTION.
This is WHY the Jews crucified Jesus . Yikes.
STRONGAXE , I'm disappointed that you compromise the TRUTH. Cluny would rebuke you too.

Isaiah 9:6 I see you scoff at.
Now we all know that you also deny the Deity of Christ. Thanks for clarifying your stand.

***Philippians 3:20 2 Timothy 1:10 Titus 1:4 Isaiah 45:21-22***
---kathr4453 on 3/27/20


Jesus Christ is God. (Col 1:16).no need to repost.

In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made, without him nothing was made that has been made (John 1:1-3 Genesis 1)

While we wait for the blessed hope the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ (Titus 2:13).

My Lord and my God! (John 20:28).

... To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:1).

Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of the Messiah who is God over all, forever praised! Amen (Romans 9:5).

I and the Father are one (John 10:30).
---Jason9787 on 3/27/20


kathr4453:

To be fair, Jesus told us to worship God. He never told us to worship Jesus.

Psalm 110:1, Matthew 22:44, and Mark 12:36:
The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
("The Lord" is God, "my Lord" is the Christ)

"Lord" is a generic term referring to anyone in a superior position, not necessarily God. E.g. in Genesis 23,24,32,33,42,45,47 others call Abraham, Isaac, Esau, and Joseph "my lord", Moses in Exodus 32,34 and Numbers 11,12,36, an angel in Joshua 5:14, and others elsewhere.

Inasmuch as Jesus has the fullness of the godhead (Colossians 2:9), he is definitely Lord, regardless of whether he is actually God.
---StrongAxe on 3/27/20


StrongAxe
This is a good discussion to have with you, for we are not emotionally attached to it. This whole Trinity matter is confusing to me and Im not really sure which side of the fence people see me on.

I believe Jesus to be the Son of God, the heir to the throne of God the Father. He is God, because he has all the Power and Authority of God, but he is the Son of God, he is not God the Father.

Is this the JW view?
---David on 3/27/20


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Here's a major red flag for those who deny the Deity of Christ....the First Commandment. If you do not believe Jesus is God incarnate, then you are worshipping someone who is not GOD. and we are not to worship prophets , or Angels , or priests or any other gods.

So you contradict yourselves..you LAW KEEPERS by not obeying this very first commandment.

I AM THE LORD THY GOD....

Jesus Christ ..Colossians 2:6....as YE have received Jesus Christ THE LORD, SO WALK YE IN HIM.

HERE IS A WARNING.
1 Corinthians 12::3 , 2 Corinthians 13:14

Only Spirit filled Christians testify JESUS CHRIST IS LORD...aka GOD.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/20


David:

What matters is not who Jesus actually is, but what authority he has. People wondered, asking "What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!" (Matthew 8:27, Mark 4:41).

In diplomacy, an Ambassador Plenipotentiary is empowered to negotiate treaties on behalf of a king or government. When he speaks, his words are as if the king himself had spoken.

Colossians 2:9 says, "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." - he exercises the full authority of God. It doesn't matter if he is actually God, as he can act as if he is. Priests have authority to speak to God on our behalf. Prophets have authority to speak to us on God's behalf. Jesus is both.
---StrongAxe on 3/26/20


There are also others who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but is not God himself.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Thank you for your explanation and your maturity. I have read and been involved in some of these discussions, but have never understood peoples fever over the subject.

Jesus is God...Jesus is Michael...Jesus is the Son of God, but he is not God the Father. I can not see, In any of theses choices, where someone would deny the Deity of Christ, or that he is the Son of God. Nor do I see any of these beliefs as a game changer when it comes to salvation.
Do you?
---David on 3/26/20


I see Steveng here actually stated Jesus is not God. So I'm curious why or exactly what is Davids understanding here, stating he has NEVER seen such a post. Also David8318. Strongaxe just pointed this out. My statement was that David has never defended the deity of Christ, not even correcting or rebuking Steveng on 3/23. With that, I stand by my statement.

But I'm not going to argue here when it's either willful blindness or just excuses to avoid the subject.

I'm spending my time making masks for Emory Hospital, and won't be back here for a while.

Maybe we should all use our time more wisely these next few months.
God bless everyone, and stay safe.
---kathr4453 on 3/25/20


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David:

There are a few people here (with David8318 being the most recent) who are Jehovah's Witnesses. JWs don't deny that Jesus is the Son of God. However, they DO deny that he IS God, and say only that he is "a God" (citing a different interpretation of John 1:1, and several other scriptures), and say that Jesus is actually the same person as the archangel Michael.

There are also others who believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but is not God himself.
---StrongAxe on 3/25/20


Kathrine
Though I am not as involved in CN as some are, I have never read where anyone has denied Christ as the Son of God. Could you explain what they, or I have said, which causes you to make these accusations?

Every scripture you have posted doesnt prove anything, if we dont know what someone said which makes you think they deny Christ.
---David on 3/25/20


Yep, I take this literally

1 John 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life, 2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us,) 3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/20


kathr4453:

I think you are confusing "David" with "David8318" (who also sometimes uses "David831"). These are two different people.

David8318 is a devout Jehovah's Witness who almost always tries to twist every discussion on here to JW doctrines (e.g. denying the Trinity and the deity of Christ, and how Jesus is Michael, and about how the Bible mistranslates God's name in hundreds of places, and how early NT manuscripts actually had the word "Jehovah" in them). He seems obsessed with these things, because he seems to discuss little else.
---StrongAxe on 3/24/20


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Kathr, you take the bible too literally. The Hebrew language is poetic. It's filled with metaphors, similes,and analogies. You don't God is a hen, do you?

When John was talking about the "Word" it wasn't God, but the words he spoke became reality. Technically, you can say all true christians are the word because we apply the words of God into doing the words of God. Denominational christians are only hearers of the word, not doers. By tithing to the church they are simply getting the church to do what we, as individuals, are suppose to do. The denominational church spends 85% of the money for maintaining the man made buildings.
---Steveng on 3/24/20


Let's also be clear here what denying Christ entails.
1) one who does not deny himself and take up his cross and follow me, Luke 9:23
2) refusing to allow Christ to live through you...Galatians 2:20-21, rather than you trying to save yourself and in your flesh live for Christ which all fall short of. This is ALL OF GALATIANS and why Paul stayed to form Christ in them again after the legalizes came in and caused chaos. Paul said those who teach that false legalistic gospel are accursed. Please take that seriously. LEGALISTS as you can see do not believe or even understand Galatians.

Denying Christ is like a wife denying her husband. Or vice versa.
---kat453 on 3/24/20


Yes he has for years tried to get me to deny Christ. It will NEVER HAPPEN. ---kathr4453

Kathryn
Is it remotely possible to have a substantive discussion with you, without you thwarting the discussion by telling a lie?

As far as the deity of Christ, If you are referring to the Trinity, you can believe whatever you want. Personally, I dont remember what you believe. I know the other David on CN likes to argue on the matter, but I dont. And I dont believe his argument is designed, to get anyone to deny Christ.
---David on 3/24/20


BOTH Steveng and David are by definition of scripture antichrist. Jesus IS THE CHRIST, not Michael or anything but GOD IN THE FLESH, THE WORD MADE FLESH, THE WORD WHO IS GOD.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus IS THE CHRIST. "He is antichrist" that denieth the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
---kathr4453 on 3/24/20


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Jesus is not God by what Jesus himself said. What did Jesus tell Mary? "Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto MY FATHER, and YOUR FATHER, and to MY GOD, and YOUR GOD." These words were explicitly said by Jesus.

There are those who do not believe in God nor Jesus, but do the will of God not knowing it's the will of God. They are the ones who will populate the new earth.

Read Revelation chapter 20. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection
---Steveng on 3/23/20


David's teaching and beliefs even denying the Deity of Christ is all true Christians need to know as to who is a false teacher here. I'm not upset at David's comments. Yes he has for years tried to get me to deny Christ. It will NEVER HAPPEN.

NEVER.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/20


I'm shocked that many are so ignorant of this truth.---kathr4453 on 3/22/20

Kathryn
You are hardly in a position to declare someone ignorant. For years I have desperately tried to show you, your doctrine is opposed to the teachings in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. And you are ignorant of why it is so important, to run from such teachings.

How do we know a teaching is from the Anti-Christ?
The prefix Anti-, means opposed to, opposite of. So A teaching which opposes the teachings of Jesus Christ, are clearly the teachings which come from the Anti-Christ.

You doctrine clearly fits this definition. So folks, like you, need to learn what Jesus taught, so you can identify these teachings.
---David on 3/23/20


Steveng the heretic is another spreading a false gospel ..straight from hell. Sorry Steveng if you think that's hateful. It's TRUTH, whether you like it or not.

The Apostles in the NT never ever taught what Steveng just stated.

These cults on here are getting out of hand. BEWARE FOLKS OF WOLVES IN SHEEPS CLOTHING spouting nonsense without scriptural backup.

The HOPE OF GLORY is NOT some earthly kingdom reign going back to before Adam sinned. THIS IS CULT DOCTRINE.
---kathr4453 on 3/23/20


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Jesus is not God by what Jesus himself said.

The good news is the coming of the Kingdom of God - nothing more, nothing less. Jesus and the apostles also taught about how to get there. We must set our eyes upon the kingdom.

There are those who do not believe in God nor Jesus, but do the will of God not knowing it's the will of God. They are the ones who will populate the new earth.
---Steveng on 3/22/20


I've shown this to Jerry before. The earthly kingdom is not the new heaven and earth. The new heaven and earth is after the 1000 year reign after this world melts away 2 Peter 3:10 after the great white throne, where Revelation 19-21 clearly show there will be no sun or moon in the New Heaven and earth. Isaiah Zechariah etc is talking about the earthly reign before that time. Even 1Corinthians 15:24 state HE, Christ must reign first AND THEN all will be delivered up to the Father.

Since no one in the new heaven and earth will ever die, being a new creature, there will be no penalty of death. No sun or moon counting days for any sabbath etc. No father's or Mothers.

I'm shocked that many are so ignorant of this truth.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/20


jerry6593:

You wrote: In heaven and the New Earth we will all keep the entire Law. There will be no sinners in Heaven.

Where in the Bible does it say that those in Heaven keep the entire Law?

The Law is given to sinners. Since there are no sinners in heaven, the Law will be irrelevant there.

Since in heaven, none marry or are given in marriage, the concept of adultery is impossible and irrelevant. Since in heaven, nobody dies, the concept of murder is impossible and irrelevant. Those in heaven will not offer up animal sacrifices as the Law requires. Thus, many parts of the Law will become unnecessary and irrelevant, so keeping those will be meaningless.
---StrongAxe on 3/22/20


Jerry, are you saying Paul in 1Timothy 1 LIED? I just quoted scripture. Take your argument up with God. I'm not God or Paul and do not have my own version of scripture. I simply post it.

But I would say B4 the Cross, seeing Jesus was a Jew UNDER THE LAW kept the Law. However now that we die to sin and the law Romans 6-7, and the schoolmaster has brought us to Christ..that is those saved, are no longer under the Law....THIS IS grace and what Paul taught in this time AFTER the Cross. Because CHRIST IN YOU ...we are Inlawed to Christ, who by the way as you stated is not a sinner and those IN CHRIST are no longer seen as sinners in Gods Eyes.

Do you finally get it NOW?
---kathr4453 on 3/22/20


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Those who are the righteousness of Christ, having OBEYED Romans 6 are not under the Law., when God says in (2 Thessalonians 1:8),... He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
---David on 3/21/20///

Let's be clear folks, the Gospel,is NOT THE LAW as our heretic David can't even understand. The Gospel is that Jesus who is God in the flesh, was made flesh for the suffering of death, took our sin upon Him, and died in our place, so that we could be made RIGHTEOUS IN CHRIST . Hebrews 2, Romans 6-8 Colossians 1,2,3, Philippians 3, Galatians 1,2,3,4,5,6 Romans 4-5 and on and on.
---kat453 on 3/22/20


StrongAxe
Very few folks understand, why we must be Born Again, and this is the real problem we have in the Church.

Why must a man be Born Again?
Its because we are born with hearts, hearts that are unable to love, as Jesus loved us. This is why we must be Born Again, born with new hearts, hearts that can love God, a stranger...an enemy, or a neighbor. (Romans 2:5)(Romans 2:29)

How does God heal our hearts?
Through WORKS...by keeping his commandments.(Romans 2:6-7)

The Moral laws are good, and should be kept, but they are not the Laws which change our hearts. Good Works...Acts of Love towards those who are in need of love, these are the Laws that change the heart. (Romans 6:17)
---David on 3/22/20


David if all you have to defend your false doctrine is insults and put downs having no scriptural support for your snide comments, SAD. MY REBUKES ARE based on scripture, and YOUR lack of understanding, not having the mind of Christ, because CHRIST is not in you in the first place. You've already admitted as much denying all scripture of CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY, which is the Gospel according to the MYSTERY that was only revealed AFTER Jesus rose from the dead. Your living on the wrong side of the CROSS David. I live on the resurrection side. It's a whole new ballgame on this side. AND THAT is what you don't grasp and give away your ignorance when insulting others.
After 3 admonitions REJECT. Your time is up with me.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/20


Kat: "one cannot see the law is not made for the righteous, but sinners."
---kathr4453 on 3/17/20

Jesus kept the Law perfectly, else His sacrifice was in vain.

Are you then saying that Jesus was a sinner?

In heaven and the New Earth we will all keep the entire Law. There will be no sinners in Heaven.



---jerry6593 on 3/21/20


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Kathryn
I am merely showing you the limitations of your Bible knowledge. /////


No David, what you are MERELY doing is showing yourself MERELY a jerk, MERELY making condescending statements to MERELY covering your own limitations as to how to rightly divide the word of truth. You do not address ANY scripture you don't like or does not fit into your limited understanding because you practice a different faith.

Lets just leave it there. I do not agree or share the JW, Mormon, or SDA doctrine as well. Just accept that and move on. I've accepted you are a heretic and will never change. I'm simply showing others you make up stuff not in scripture NO VERSE says we put ourselves under the law. That is a lie from HELL.
---kat453 on 3/21/20


David:

The problem is, many call themselves Christians, yet by their acts and deeds are plainly not under "the righteousness of Christ", and don't know God, and don't follow the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

For example, those who follow preachers whose teachings are plainly opposed to what Christ taught (e.g. Paula White), or who believe a man who breaks most of the Ten Commandments on a daily basis is "God's Chosen". Preachers who, during disasters, won't open their churches to the homeless, because it might ruin the upholstery. People who spend more time judging and condemning their neighbors, rather than loving them. "By their fruits you will know them", but it's fruit I wouldn't eat even if starving.
---StrongAxe on 3/21/20


Kathryn
I am merely showing you the limitations of your Bible knowledge. Anything written in the bible, which goes against your doctrine, you see as false,...even though the teaching came from the Son of God.

If I make you feel foolish, its because the foolishness of a false doctrine can easily seen when held up to the word of God.

More foolishness?
You made the claim on 3/19/20, Those who are the righteousness of Christ, having OBEYED Romans 6 are not under the Law., when God says in (2 Thessalonians 1:8),... He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
---David on 3/21/20


Also David, I have watched you over the past couple years immediately come to the defense of those who deny the DEITY OF CHRIST, rather than defend the scriptures showing the DEITY OF CHRIST. And as you continue to deny you are JW or Mormon, or whatever you have NEVER rebuked them, but defend them. So, seeing right out the gate this false two faced stance, playing both sides, which you CANNOT, has actually altered your understanding of Jesus Christ and our relationship to Jesus Christ. You deny 2 Corinthians 5:21, As well. Our relationship is MORE than just being forgiven, it's being forgiven SO THAT CHRIST CAN LIVE IN US AND THROUGH US. HE IS OUR LIFE. This is something ALL who deny the Deity of Christ just don't understand or believe.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/20


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David we can go round and round till the cows come home and you will still argue against the word of God. Why do you cherry pick a verse and then tear it down. The answer to your question is to real ALL of Romans 6. Try on verse 3-4. Then try on verses 11-18. Now try on verse 23. This is the answer to your verse in John 8:35. We are no longer slaves to sin. Now go and read ALL of Romans 8 to answer any questions you have. It's all there. Maybe you need to allow the Holy Sprit to show you.
---kathr4453 on 3/20/20


David, please show the scripture that causes you to state what I believe and why you think that is what I believe according to your interpretation of scripture. You make statements and twist, just to play a silly game saying GOTCHA....where there is no GOTCHA ...

Where according to the scriptures I have posted cause you to make your conclusions, and then give us YOUR interpretation of why you don't believe the Word of God at face value, but ADD to scripture what us not there, because you have to logically make Gods WORD fit into your incomplete understanding.

Or rather, show explicitly why you do not believe in Galatians 2:20-21 Romans 6 Colossians 2 and 3, and Romans 5....is it because you don't believe in the DEITY OF CHRIST?
---kathr4453 on 3/20/20


Those who are the righteousness of Christ, having OBEYED Romans 6 are not under the Law. ---kathr4453

<>(Romans 6:6) For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin

And how does one know they are no longer slaves of sin?

From the Master teacher:
(John 8:34) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
---David on 3/20/20


Kathryn
I guess the real difference between what you and I believe, is in what the Bible means when it says, Jesus died for our sins.

I believe Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin, so that we can have a relationship with God the Father, and at his discretion, be born again. And those born again will not sin, because that which caused them to sin has died.

You believe, Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin which pays the penalty for the sins, of those who believe, this penalty is paid for the rest of their natural lives. You also believe, sin has died in those who have been born again, but they will continue to sin, and we make the decision to be born again.

Correct?

If not, tell me where I am wrong.
---David on 3/20/20


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David, Romans 3 are reiterated again in 1 Timothy chapter 1.

Those who are the righteousness of Christ, having OBEYED Romans 6 are not under the Law. Galatians again clearly shows this over and over in every word in all 6 chapters ....it's what the whole letter or to us the book of Galatians is about.

BUT, it appears only those who have the mind of Christ understand this.

The Law addresses the FLESH ALA SINFUL MAN UNREGENERATE MAN. Romans 8 GRACE ADDRESSES THE RIGHTEOUS, no longer seen in the flesh but in the spirit if so be you are in Christ and He in you. So Choose this day what category you belong in. I know where I belong and plan to stay put.

Those in the flesh do not understand things of the spirit.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/20


(Romans 3:19 & 20) Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

And who is it that gains the Knowledge of sin?
Those who are under the Law.

How do we know we are under the Law?
We will feel guilt, before God, when we sin.

How do we put ourselves under the Law?
Repent!!!...Get somewhere alone and simply ask God to forgive you of your sins. The Guilt will be your knowledge.
---David on 3/19/20


Correct those who love GOD and love others do not want to break the Ten Commandments.

Apple trees produce apples.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/18/20


David, seeing I have been justified BY FAITH IN JESUS DEATH AND RESURRECTION, those whom God has justified He has also Glorified. I now live by Galatians 2:20-21.

So this is what I believe and live by ...reiterated in Galatians 6. That's because I obeyed Romans 6. Christ in me has no desire to steal, swear, murder, have any graven images of any kind and so on. The NEW CREATURE being under GRACE , SAVED BY GRACE LIVE BY THAT GRACE. Again Galatians 2:20-21 Galatians 5:22-25
---kathr4453 on 3/18/20


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Kathryn

What.....is the Law?
The Law are the commandments given to man which come from God.

Are we under the Law in the New Testament?
No!

Since God has not put us under the Law, if we keep his commandments, Do we not put ourselves under the Law?

What results when we someone puts themselves under the Law?

(John 14:21) He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me, and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father....

(Romans 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
---David on 3/18/20


Please show verses saying under the NC we must put ourselves under the law. No such verse exists. The OC stated..IF YOU WILL, I WILL....The NC states I WILL... The difference between self effort that failed, and Gods promise HE WILL DO IT, because we cannot.

Misinformation is rampant everywhere. If one wants to know how the Law applies in the NT era please read 1 Timothy 1. Because people can't believe one becomes the righteousness of Christ under the NT, one cannot see the law is not made for the righteous, but sinners.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/20


StrongAxe
I dont advocate tithing, for it was for those God put under The Law. In the New Covenant we must put ourselves under the Law. Under the New Covent we are led...not commanded to keep the Law.

God does not command us to give money, but he still wants us to be givers, only it must be as a cheerful giver. Tithing does not make for a cheerful giver, but giving to someone to whom you are led by the Holy Spirit to give,...does make one a cheerful giver.

People experience this in their lives and dont understand why, sometimes when they give it makes them cheerful, and sometimes they are not. I am sure you have have been led to give to someone in need, and then after giving, discovered an unexpected joy which followed.
---David on 3/15/20


David:

All Israel (except Levi) gave 10% to support Levi, in lieu of their inheritance. All Levi gave 10% to support the priests.

The Law (including the Ten Commandments and tithing) are useful crutches for children who can follow explicit instructions, but not abstract principles. Adults able to appreciate "love your neighbor as yourself" need no such instructions. They ALREADY avoid murder, theft, adultery, perjury, and envy, and take care of their neighbor (as much as neeeded, not just 10%) without needing to be told. We christians are not under the Law.

It's only people who don't truly follow the law of Christ who need explicit laws to tell them what they should already be doing automatically.
---StrongAxe on 3/14/20


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Here, of course, we do not have the space for reviewing videos. But you can share samples of the experience you wish to share about, with us, here.

And we can discuss them in light of Scripture. The Holy Spirit can include us in helping you with this.
---Bill on 3/14/20


The tithe was NOT for "the needs of others". It was not charity for the poor. It was specifically to compensate Levi.....StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Because of the word limitations I had to condense my post.

True, the Tithe taken from the other 11 tribes was given to the Levites for their inheritance, but....the Levites also gave 10% of what they received from the other 11 tribes, to God (Numbers 18:26). This is the tithe I was talking about.

Money is a good way to test ourselves. Its easy to fool ourselves into believing we are righteous, and we love God and our neighbor more than money. But do we spend our money as a righteous person on the needy, or do we spend it on that which we covet?
---David on 3/14/20


David:

Jesus said "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil." Money is a tool to be used, not an idol to be worshiped, because what we worship, we become slaves to (including God).

Many cannot distinguish wants from needs (especially rich evangelists). You may NEED a car to get to work, but you don't NEED a Mercedes - you just WANT one. If we "love our neighbors as ourselves", we will treat their needs on par with our own, neither less (which is selfish), no more (which is self-destructive).

The tithe was NOT for "the needs of others". It was not charity for the poor. It was specifically to compensate Levi, because unlike other tribes, they had no land of their own.
---StrongAxe on 3/13/20


StrongAxe
I partially agree with the idea of being held accountable, but If everything we own belongs to God, we would be Gods slaves, not servants of his righteousness.

Money is the root of all evil.
Why?
Because Satan uses money, which comes from the world, to keep us in the world.
How?
Basically, he Tempts us to spend money on Our Wants, instead of the Needs of Others, as God used the Tithe he was given in (Deuteronomy 14, 28 & 29).

When we spend our money on our wants, instead of those God has shown us who are in need, we can see our love of the world, is greater than our Love for God and our neighbor.
---David on 3/13/20


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The problem with tithing mentality is it creates a dichotomy between what is God's or ours. 10% of what we own is God's, and the other 90% ours - the mentality of an employee. 8 hours belongs to his employer, the other 16 to him to do with as he pleases.

Remember the old hymn, "I surrender one tenth! I surrender one tenth! One tenth to thee, my blessed savior! I surrender one tenth!"? Neither do I. It's "I surrender ALL!"

Like the shepherd who gives his life for his flock (unlike the hired man), we are executives, not employees. EVERYTHING we own belongs to God. We are free to use it for our own expenses, but we will be held accountable for those expenses, just like an executive with an expense account.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/20


Also, we know that 100% of our donations go to help the poor and needy, it comes straight from the heart.---Steveng

Good to hear, Steven.
Many churches miss this point, and the blessings which come with it. They give the poor and those in need, the remnants, of what they collect.

Most of the churches I have attended during my lifetime, teach tithing. I personally have nothing against a teaching where folks giving 10% of what they earn, but I wish these teachers didnt make it mandatory.

Those I have taught, and have Tithing etched in their brain, I tell them to create a bank account in which to keep Gods money. Remembering it is Gods money, and only to be used when giving to those God has placed upon their hearts.
---David on 3/12/20


Within our group, as many such groups throughout the world, we encourage the members, young and old, to search the scripture to know first hand what the leaders are telling the truth or not.

Also, we know that 100% of our donations go to help the poor and needy, it comes straight from the heart. Denominational "churches" spend over 85% of their donations for the upkeep of their hard assets (building, landscaping, etc), paper assets (mortgage, insurance, etc.) and buisness expenses (marketing, accounting, etc.).
---Steveng on 3/10/20


At least in a denomination, you have collections of many smaller groups who are of one mind, and are accountable to each other, even if each denomination has slightly different beliefs and emphases than others.

Groups that reject denominations and worship independently have a tendency to also not be accountable to anyone else, and are thus much more vulnerable to going off on the doctrinal track without anyone to stop them. This is not to say that such groups are all wrong, but when they DO go wrong, it's a lot harder for anyone inside them to notice.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/20


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It's very difficult to find that "someone" to help you along. Search for a group of christians who do not belong to a denomination. There are over 75,000 different worldwide denomination, non-profit organization, each having their own rituals, traditions, ways of living, and interpretations of the bible. There is not one in thought. Is Christ divided?

The meaning of the word "church" is completely different in today's world than in Jesus' time. Today, it means a building or a denomination just how it's used.

Pray to the Father for guidance.
---Steveng on 3/9/20


Also know no truth is of any private interpretation. So going it alone may not be wise either. Also keep in mind not to put experiences before the Word Of God, or at least measure BY the word of God. In other words Satan can imitate experiences. We don't live by experiences but by Faith in the promises of God. Example would be being slain in the spirit, which is a satanic made up emotional experience driven by Satan, where if you look into scripture, there were no such experiences written by any of the NT writers. Paul was not slain...(aka killing someone in the Spirit )when he was knocked off his horse. We are made alive in the Spirit for one, not slain.
---kathr4453 on 3/9/20


Dragon: Yes, there is someone. He is the Holy Spirit. Open your Bible, and He will guide you into all truth.


---jerry6593 on 3/9/20


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