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Meaning Of The Word Repent

Throughout history, God has warned mankind to Repent!!
You see it in the Old Testament and New Testament. Jesus even warned the seven churches to repent. I believe it means to live in obedience to God.

My question is, What does the word Repent mean to you?

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 ---David on 6/11/20
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David, I'm shocked at your outburst. Why did you choose to go low? Scripture teaches scripture. And I already said I don't read commentaries, Matther Henry or any of those you listed. Folks who allow the Holy Spirit through the WORD OF GOD , not commentaries, will be taught. 1 John 2:20 also says we have an unction from the Holy One ..for what David...look up the verse. I answered you sincerely and you go off the deep end cursing why? And not only cursing, but fabricating lies no one ever said. You guys who do this are not led by the Holy Spirit to begin with. You want to have it your way, so have it your way, but stop assaulting others because you don't get the answer you want. Your post was childish. And yes TRUTH HAS WITNESSES TOO.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/20


Always find 2-3 supporting scriptures to establish a truth.---kathr4453

But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.(Matthew 18:16)

Kathrine
Jesus said, 2-3 Witnesses,...not verses. And this is Exactly, why there are so many false doctrines today. We have 8-9 men who wrote the New Testament, all who are witnesses to one another. And yet doctrines, like yours, use Paul without any other Biblical witnesses.

Instead, you use Men like Matthew Henry, John Calvin, John Westley, Billy Graham, Jimmy Swaggart, Charles Stanley, Hank Hanegraaff....etc, as witnesses to support your doctrines.
---David on 7/1/20


David, I believe your answer to the question is correct. The name of repent is: "metanoeo" which means,
Repent with regret accompanied by a true change of heart toward God.
Many repent, but they do not have a change of heart towards God.
---ven on 7/1/20


David, I think you are over thinking this. The natural mind cannot understand the things of the Spirit no matter what helps one uses. It's the Lord who reveals these Truths to us. And the more you grow, the deeper those truths go. I once heard a pastor say it wasn't so much the unsaved who persecute christians, but carnal minded Christians who attack out of their own ignorance. Truths come in 2-3's. So one verse wonders is what CULTS use. Always find 2-3 supporting scriptures to establish a truth. But also use a Strongs for those words that we only have one word for.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/20


David the authors of scripture did not write commentaries, as the WORD OF GOD is not a commentary.---kathr4453

Kathrine
Exactly!!

But to my point, Dictionaries are also written by men and the definitions come from men. The definition did not come from God, but written according to how the word is used.

We speak English, and yet in England there are many words we use, which have an entirely different meaning.....in England. A language which has changed dramatically in America, in just 200 years. From what I have read, the first Greek dictionary published in English, was in 1843.

Do you think the definitions of those words might have changed over those 1800 years?
---David on 6/29/20




David, you are correct that it is hard to know and understand every word written in Scripture. If we take our time and read every word in it's original language, we can understand the sentence better, but sometimes it takes too long that way, so we skip the hard work and just read the Bible.
Sometimes the words have several meanings, and it's up to the reader to find out the correct one.
---ven. on 6/28/20


David the authors of scripture did not write commentaries, as the WORD OF GOD is not a commentary. Other than that no one after that was chosen by God to write anything equal to that. Many have tried, like John Calvin, etc, but have no authority to do so.

Anyone can write a commentary, and if you read several, you will see they all have variations of their interpretation of scripture, RE: salvation , end times etc. I personally don't read commentaries, but I'm sure reading them, the Holy Spirit will enlighten those things that are true, and convict of those things not true.
---kathr4453 on 6/28/20


David, most people don't look to commentaries as they do to scripture. No teacher today or ever is 100% correct, and none claim to know 100% truth.---kathr4453

Kathrine
I am sorry you feel that way. Personally, I believe 100% of what the Lord and his apostles, taught in the bible.

Because you quote from the bible, I know you trust some of the teachers in the New Testament. How do you make the distinction, between the truth and a false teaching, when reading the Bible?
---David on 6/28/20


David, most people don't look to commentaries as they do to scripture. No teacher today or ever is 100% correct, and none claim to know 100% truth. So to make and put MH on the same playing field as the Apostles etc is way out of line.

You've made comments here having no truth, yet jump over and change the subject when called out. This shows you are not taught by the Holy Spirit either and we should stop listening to anything you have to say. That's fair....right? Judge not lest YE be judged.
---kathr4453 on 6/27/20


StrongAxe
Many people read Bible commentaries to ascertain biblical knowledge. They believe what they read, because they believe writers like Matthew Henry are taught by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew Henry claimed to be taught by the Holy Spirit, his guess, the behemoth was a Hippopotamus, proves this was not taught to him by the Holy Spirit. Which, I would hope, cause folks to question everything he wrote.

Now in light of all of this, because of men like Matthew Henry, who guess their way through the bible, people missed this amazing fact, the Bible told us about this enormous creature, many years before it was ever discovered.

Atheists dont read Matthew Henry, and when I show them this in Job, they are amazed.
---David on 6/27/20




David:

Translators deduce what words mean by comparing their uses in various contexts. However, if used seldom, or just once (Hapax Legomenon), it's a lot harder. This is why names of uncommon creatures in the Bible are often rendered in many different ways by different authors.

Translators guessed at behemoth, calling it elephant, hippopotamus, rhinoceros, or buffalo. In Hebrew, "behemoth" occurs once, in Job 40:15. It is the plural of common word "behemah" that means beast, animal, cattle.

Hippotamus was only "discovered" by Henry (and Americas by Columbus) if you discount the knowledge of all non-Europeans. NT precedes KJV by almost 16 centuries, and OT by more than that.
---StrongAxe on 6/26/20


Repentance is found in the New Testament, and not in the Old Testament because The Ten Commandments were written on stone.

David felt guilt over his sin,***Psalms 38:18*** and was sorry for his sin. Job 42:6 is another. No NC law written on the heart existed in the OT

In the New Testament, the Law is written on our heart, which is why those who are brought to Repentance, feel guilt when they sin against God. Guilt, not felt when the Law was written on stone. (Hebrews 10:16)
---David on 6/23/20


God has called sinners to repentance, before anything is written on our heart.

So you want something to support your false premise here supporting your redefining repentance....No can do.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/20


David, there is no proof it was a Dino. Many believe it was and many believe it wasn't. But David, you go ahead and believe what you want. And I know you'll only read authors and dictionaries who agree with you. There are many false teachings I believe also have their false concordances to support their false teachings. Whether it was a Dino or hippo does not change the fact that scripture is centered on Jesus Christ, not Dino's or Hippo's to distract from the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 6/26/20


Axe, my believe is that Jonah was told a lot more then the words he said to the people written on the Bible but did not mention all that God said, we are not told the details God told Jonah, so he preached enough that the people got the message that God was angry at them. Jonah preached but we are not told for how long. Very little is explain in the story.
Jonah was not a false prophet, he did what God told him to do, and the people repented, which accomplished God's purpose.
---ven. on 6/26/20


When I see an English word in scripture i do not use an English dictionary, but go back to the original Greek or Hebrew word...---kathr4453

Kathrine
One day many years ago I was reading the book of Job and saw the word Behemoth. I looked it up in a Hebrew dictionary, and it said it was a Hippopotamus.

The Bible is clearly is not a describing a Hippopotamus In (Job 40). Its description is that of a Dinosaur. When I was reading Matthew Henrys commentaries, he also said it was a Hippopotamus.
Why?

The Dinosaur wasnt discovered until after Henrys death. If it had been before, Henry would have said the Behemoth was a Dinosaur. Since he was so highly regarded, his opinion, probably created the definition.
---David on 6/26/20


ven:

Again, either Jonah told Nineveh what God told him to say, or he said something God did NOT tell him to say.

1) If Jonah accurately repeated what God told him, then God lied to Jonah by telling him Nineveh would be destroyed, when he clearly knew that he would not destroy it.

2) If Jonah did NOT repeat what God told him, but told Nineveh something different, Jonah was a false prophet, and his book should be ripped out of the bible and burned, nad he should have been stoned to death.

Which of the above two possibilities do you favor, or can you see a third one that fits the facts?
---StrongAxe on 6/25/20


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How convenient to explain away any scripture that does not neatly fit ones doctrine than to say...hay We don't really know what God said ....

We see Jonah preached what God told him to. Jonah preached Nineveh would be overthrown in 40 days. There was no UNLESS YOU DO THIS OR THAT. As we see, it was their idea to put on sack cloth etc IN CASE ....in hopes of, not out of obedience to being told to repent, but in hopes of God turning away His Wrath. I believe Jonah 3:9-10 prove this.
---kathr4453 on 6/25/20


Axe, in answer to your question, God did not lied to Jonah, whatever He told him we do not know, Nothing is written concerning what He told Jonah. He told him to go and preach to them the message that I tell you. When Jonah entered the city he cried out, "yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown."
As you can see we do not know the words God must have said, so we cannot blame Him for lying. What we do know is that the message they got from Jonah cause them to fast,and pray and no disaster came to Nineveh
---ven. on 6/25/20


Maybe the OT doesn't use a form of repent , i.e.: repentance , one could say Jonah's preaching brought Ninevea to repentance, as Jesus said they repented. Their actions showed a sorrowful heart for their wickedness and humbled themselves before the Lord for mercy.

Also the NC didn't go into effect until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead, as Hebrews 9:17 referring to the NC clearly say, that a will is not in effect until after one is dead. So at Pentecost we see men were asked to REPENT AND BELIEVE. Those Jews who turned from the Law to Christ repented and believed Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. His shed blood surpass the blood of bulls and goats. Hebrews 10.
---kathr4453 on 6/25/20


David, I guess we apply things differently. When I see an English word in scripture i do not use an English dictionary, but go back to the original Greek or Hebrew word and look at that definition.

example, the word in English LOVE in scripture original text uses 4 entirely different words and meanings.
Agape = unconditional GODS Love
Phila= friendship
Storge= Empathy bond
Eros= romantic love

So when it says For God so LOVED the world, it isn't a romantic love, or friendship. It is AGAPE Love.

So the English dictionary cannot do this. The Bible was not written in English.
---kathr4453 on 6/25/20


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Kathrine
As you know, The word Repentance was not used by anyone in the Bible. Repentance is an English word, a translation of the word they used in the bible.

When I am dealing with an english word, I use an English dictionary, a dictionary which uses corresponding synonyms of the word. If you look at the synonyms for repentance, you will see they agree with what I said.

You seem to be saying the English word, Repentance, the one I see in the English dictionary, is not the proper word translation. If it is incorrect, why havent they changed the word in the bible?
---David on 6/25/20


David, the WORD OF GOD was not written in modern day slang. The original Greek and Hebrew words are listed in the STRONGS concordance and are not changing or evolving with time, anymore than God is changing with time. So I don't understand your point there.

And repent repentance come from the same root. If you have taken foreign languages you would understand that. Cool and groovy don't come from the same root. dynamite ..another slang means awesome ....but why would you think repentance or repent is some sort of slang for dog food, or whatever. The Holy Spirit writing through man did not use slang.
---kathr4453 on 6/24/20


ven:

You wrote: Since I know God does not change my answer to the problem is that God said what He said to cause Nineveh to repent.

So you are saying that God deliberately lied to Jonah (i.e. told him something He knew was not true)?

How does that comport with "God is not like a man, that he should lie"?
---StrongAxe on 6/24/20


Axe, lets clear one thing first. God is on the Throne. He is in control of all things.
Second, God never changes. With Him there is no shadow of turning. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. That is His nature, and that does not change.
So whenever we get to a problem in a story, it cannot change who God is. His nature remains the same no matter the answers we come out with.
Since I know God does not change my answer to the problem is that God said what He said to cause Nineveh to repent.
---ven. on 6/24/20


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Kathrine
I try to use the way a word is used in the Bible to define words. Dictionaries definitions are always evolving, evolving according to the way a word is used. This is why I dont put any faith in them.

For example, Take the word COOL, or GROOVY in the English language. In the 60s new definitions were added to them, definitions which didnt exist in the 50s.

StrongAxe
Guilt is a synonym listed for the word repentance in Merriam-Webster dictionaries. Repent is a change of mind, but what causes the change? It is the guilt over sin which causes the change, that change is Called Repentance. If someone is repentant over a crime, does this not mean they feel sorrow over committing the crime?
---David on 6/24/20


In Matthew 12:41 Jesus said REPENTED , because it was past tense. Past tense means it happened in th he past, as what happened in Nineveh, was in the past then and now. Now was Jonah preaching something that brought them to repentance ?....yes, seeing they were sorry for their sin. So it looks like the need for the NC to bring repentance was not needed, nor were those in Nineveh under the LAW written on stone. So again this proves untegenerate sinners do have a conscience and do know right from wrong and are able to repent as we see Nineveh did. Jesus said THEY REPENTED.
---kathr4453 on 6/24/20


Well David I'm sure you will find what you want that agrees with what you want. So why ask others? If you already know the answer you want it to be, then be happy with that. But to say you want to teach others YOUR answers according to YOUR dictionary
don't expect others to agree so easily. Calvinists believe the word WORLD in scripture means the elect only. Do they have their own dictionary that supports their false doctrine? It would appear so. I wonder how often Webster Dictionary is in opposition to the Oxford dictionary on words. Can you give an example where the definition of any word is so off base in comparing another resource to the same word. Please show proof.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/20


David:

So please tell us which concordance and dictionary that you use, so we can compare them.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/20


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Kathrine
There are other dictionaries which dont agree with Strongs definition of Repentance. They agree with my definition. His definition of Grace doesnt Agree with yours or my definition. So I wouldnt put much faith in Mr. Strongs definitions.
---David on 6/23/20


ven:

Thank you.

My point had nothing to do with what the people of Nineveh believed or did, but solely with what God said, and what he did.
1) If God KNEW IN ADVANCE that he would not destroy Nineveh, then he LIED to Jonah when he said he would destroy Nineveh without giving any conditions (e.g. "unless they repent").
2) If God did, in fact, purpose to destroy Nineveh, but later did not do so, then he changed his mind.

So which is it?
---StrongAxe on 6/23/20


David , in Hosea # Repentance STRONGS # 5164 nocham from the root 5162 nacham repent. Is just a different tense of the same word. Repent in the old is the same as in the new. Repented=past tense, repenting= present tense. Then there is Repenteth, and many more variations of the same word depending on how the sentence was constructed .

are you saying because the 10 commandments were written in stone, all men's hearts were stone in the OR and never felt remorse for sin? Not according to King David, or Solomon, just to name a couple.

So I will have to disagree with you here.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/20


Axed, first off all, Happy Fathers Day. I am sure you are a father. Second:
you asked: "1) Jonah told Nineveh what God told him to say. I.e. that Nineveh would be destroyed, no conditions, no "unless you repent". The people of Nineveh believed God would do what He said, and proclaimed a fast and put on sackcloth. they repent not because God told them to repent, but because what God was going to do to them. God did not change His mind. God knew if He told them, doom was coming, they would repent. He knows all things, even before they happen, He is, after all, Omniscience.
---ven. on 6/23/20


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Matthew 12:41...shows what repentance is by Jesus own mouth.....-kathr4453

Kathrine
Jesus did not use the word Repentance, in (Matthew 12:41). Jesus used the word repented. They have two different meanings. I know what Repentance means, but I need your help in finding a verse in the bible which clearly defines it.

The word repentance, means to feel guilt over sin. Repentance is found in the New Testament, and not in the Old Testament because The Ten Commandments were written on stone.

In the New Testament, the Law is written on our heart, which is why those who are brought to Repentance, feel guilt when they sin against God. Guilt, not felt when the Law was written on stone. (Hebrews 10:16)
---David on 6/23/20


I agree Kathyr. To repent is to be sorry for your sins and turn away from sin and hate to love.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/22/20


And here is the cherry on top. Not only shows what repentance is by Jesus own mouth, but totally trampled under those tulips. You see, no one in the OT or during Jesus earthly ministry was even born again first to believe, so that they could repent according to Calvinism, as the promise of the Spirit came with the NT after Jesus death and resurrection. And no verse in Jonah said God made them ALL spiritually alive first so they could believe and repent.

Matthew 12:41
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas, and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/20


David, I'm not sure what you are saying. Repent, repenting, repenting is used 45 times in the OT ans 60 times in the NT according to the KJV.

I believe scripture teaches scripture, as we compare spiritual to spiritual in these verses. Also use a STRONGS that give you the original Greek and Hebrew. but again Jonah 3:9 Jonah 3:10 give a great definition of repent..."to turn away from ". Just like one can "turn away from " thinking the law can save you and embrace that ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE YOU by His own finished works on the cross.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/20


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So I'm assuming Today you are saying we don't see repentance.---kathr4453 on 6/21/20

Kathrine
What I was referring to, is the use of the word Repentance when you read the Old Testament. In the KJV you only find it in once in the book of Hosea.

Its a little easier to Understand the meaning of a word when it is used in both the Old and New Testament. But since the word repentance is really only used in the New Testament, it is a hard word to be sure of the meaning. Dictionaries tend to have multiple meanings, a definition to suit whatever you want it to mean.
---David on 6/22/20


David, good question. First let me say Jonah preached THE WORD OF THE LORD THAT CAME TO HIM. So I'm assuming Today you are saying we don't see repentance. ????AND WHY??? Well, seeing the WOF does not preach the Gospel, along with a majority of false teachers today. Jonah preached THE WORD OF THE LORD, not his own words. Faith comes by hearing THE WORD OF GOD, not our own words. So first we need to preach ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Second , ALL THROUGH Adams sin deserve Gods wrath. Third, that Jesus died for our sin and took our wrath..Isaiah 53 , and 4th, Preach all of Romans 10 in light of the previous 3 points.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/20


So today, when we preach the Gospel, that is the coming wrath, and salvation through faith in Jesus Christ who took Gods wrath and judgement for our sin, can also REPENT , just as those in Nineveh. Proving the unsaved CAN REPENT , just as those did in Nineveh. So the point IS ...WE NEED TO PREACH AND SHARE THE GOSPEL with the lost.

The Lord has taught us a wonderful lesson from Jonah, ..that the unsaved can and do hear and can respond AND REPENT.

And no one needs ven speaking over everyone here as we all have a voice to speak truth.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/20


ven:

Either Jonah told Nineveh what God told him to say, or he did not. There are two possibilities:

1) Jonah told Nineveh what God told him to say. I.e. that Nineveh would be destroyed, no conditions, no "unless you repent".

2) Jonah told Nineveh something different than what God told him to say. The Old Testament calls people who do this "false prophets", and that we should not fear them, and that they should be stoned to death.

Since the Book of Jonah is included in scripture, rather than being burned as heresy, I'm inclined to go with 1.

Also, Nineveh could have just cursed God instead of repenting (which happens to people in Revelation). So they CHOSE to repent.
---StrongAxe on 6/21/20


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I agree Kathrine, and with a good biblical reference. Havent read Jonah in many years. Thanks, I really enjoyed going back and reading it again.

How would you define repentance? We see folks repenting in the Old Testament, but no one is being brought to repentance. Your thoughts?
---David on 6/21/20


Axe, you have to read the book of Jonah. We never hear what God tells Jonah only: God says "Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and preach to it the message that I tell you," Jonah said to the people.:"Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown." God was not speaking Jonah was. We don't know all the words God told Jonah, what we do know is that when Jonah spoke to the people they understood that Nineveh was in real trouble, and it was going to be destroyed, that is why they fasted, prayed to God, and turn from their evil ways, with the hope God would turn from His fierce anger. Scripture tells us every time God relents of what He said He would do, each instance is in regards to punishment.
---ven. on 6/20/20


fKath, here is what you said:
"...IF YOU REPENT GOD WILL NOT DISTROY YOU. This is where Calvinist's hate this book. The people OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL REPENTED,"
The people of Nineveh made their decision base on what God was going to do to Nineveh otherwise they had no clue doom was coming. Once God mention doom, they changed their minds and begged for mercy. They did not repent out of their own free will, they repented because they had no choice but to cry to God and repent.
It has nothing to do with Calvinism.
---ven. on 6/20/20


You are correct. It's an action word, the first "step" is to be sorry for what a person has done, and turning from yourself and doing what God wants.
---wivv on 6/20/20


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So David, we see a perfect example in Johah how Nineveh ( those depraved in-elect Gentiles) REPENTED. And this is what we are to do today, preach the coming wrath of God, as He so clearly has stated in His word that it is coming. But with that we also preach that those who put their faith in Christ will be saved from the wrath to come. You see, the wrath of God along with Gods MERCY is SOVEREIGN , and in no way upends the Sovereignty of God when sinners repent. It's all wrapped up in the SOVEREIGNTY of God, that He will Forgive and cleanse our sins, and not only ours but the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2.
---kathr4453 on 6/20/20


If ven actually read Jonah, God said Nineveh would be destroyed ..(ch 3:4 gives a specific time.) ...in 40 days. PERIOD. Yet in Jonas proclamation there is not one word Jonas said like...IF YOU REPENT GOD WILL NOT DISTROY YOU. This is where Calvinist's hate this book. The people OF THEIR OWN FREE WILL REPENTED, and God changed His mind and did not Overthrow them .

That's one of the reasons our Calvinist Jonah was upset....because it made him look like a liar because God DID CHANGE HIS MIND, making Jonah look bad.

This book refutes Calvinism and tramples those tulips like no other.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/20


ven:

You wrote: God did not change His mind for He knew all along they would repent of their sins.

Which means he intended, all along, to NOT destroy Nineveh. So why did he tell Jonah that he DID intend to destroy Nineveh. Isn't that lying?
---StrongAxe on 6/19/20


Axe, you wrote "
ven:
If God PLANNED to not destroy Nineveh, he LIED to Jonah saying he planned to destroy it. Numbers 23:19: "God is not a man, that he should lie".

Axe, you just don't want God to be Sovereign, in control of all things. Here, in the situation with Moses The People Off Nineveh prayed to God and asked His forgiveness. God heard their prayer and granted mercy to them. God did not change His mind for He knew all along they would repent of their sins. Yet from the human point of view this was unknown. The Bible assures us concerning the nature of God that He never changes, and His all knowing, He never learns more. With every command He moved the people of Israel.
---ven. on 6/19/20


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ven:

If God PLANNED to not destroy Nineveh, he LIED to Jonah saying he planned to destroy it. Numbers 23:19: "God is not a man, that he should lie".

From another blog:

Hillary got 4 PEOPLE killed during her ENTIRE TERM. 6 INVESTIGATIONS found no wrongdoing.

During Trump's FIRST WEEK, his Yakla Yemen raid that ALL his military advisers advised against got 2 DOZEN civilians killed, including 9 children and a pregnant woman (and her unborn child, but I never heard pro-lifers complaining).

Obama didn't "Give money" to Iran. He returned money that was ALREADY THEIRS, and was owed them since the 1970s (plus interest), that the U.S. seized (i.e. "stole") after the revolution.
---StrongAxe on 6/18/20


Let's see, after you are saved and obey Romans 12:1-2 , a list of GIFTS for service are noted, says nothing about having to understand ...what ven HUMAN what ven? Ha ha. Another made up word and concept not found in scripture.

Just a juvenile way Calvinists bully those who disagree with them claiming they are superior in knowledge than you. Don't fall for this folks. The LORD is who transforms your mind, not anyone else. You don't see any verses the Apostles told the churches they needed this or that...not even the Bereans needed anything but scripture.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/20


Axe, I believe you need some lessons in Hermeneutics. You write: "I showed examples where God said one thing at one point, and said something different later (e.g. deciding to destroy Nineveh, and later changes his mind). You can't rely on some scriptures and ignore others that are inconvenient to your theory.
God did not change His mind on the subject of Nineveh for He knew all along they would repent of their sins for He is Omniscient, knowing all things. Yet from a human point of view this was unknown. The Bible assures us of the following things about Gods Nature. A seemly change in Gods dealings is from humanity's point of view.
---ven.i on 6/18/20


ven:

You wrote: Axe, you insist to worship a god who is a human being that's up to you.

I never said that. God IS spirit, and God IS sovereign. Because he is sovereign, he has the power and authority to designate some parts of his power and authority to others (e.g. Satan is the "God of this World", at least for now, because God gave him that authority. He didn't steal that power from God).

ven:

I showed examples where God said one thing at one point, and said something different later (e.g. deciding to destroy Nineveh, and later changes his mind). You can't rely on some scriptures and ignore others that are inconvenient to your theory.
---StrongAxe on 6/18/20


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Why does Trump always get into these conversations?
---David on 6/18/20


I see Trump has told another WHOPPING LIE, saying Obama and Biden NEVER addressed police reform. Just BLATENT lies. Now it would appear our APOSTATE wanna be elect as well as others who come on here defending their version of the scriptures don't have an issue with what God says about liars and lying. They want to trample all over you with this or that, DEFEND AND EXCUSE the very things GOD HATES. Gods WILL, ALSO STATED IN THE LAW SAYS Lying is a sin worthy of death.

This is what is turning the unsaved world off to Christianity. We see the Self proclaimed elect don't care, because they say it's GODS WILL TO LIE NOW. SO DISGUSTING. This is the very thing many are offended by saying Christians sin after saved and don't care.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/20


Axe, you insist to worship a god who is a human being that's up to you. Our God is Spirit,Sovereign, in control of all things even your life. He decides when you will die. He is in control of where you are born, where you will live, and every move you make He has already seen. He does not learn anything, He is all knowing. No one is equal to God. God is not a man that He should lie nor that He should Repent, Numbers 23:19. And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for He is not a man, that He should repent, 1 Samuel 15:29.
God does not share His Sovereignty with sinners. Sinners are responsible for their choices, whether good or bad.
---ven. on 6/17/20


Axe say's:
"What does anthropomorphism have to do with anything we have been discussing?
You said God changed His mind, and I said God does not or ever has changed His mind or repented. I gave you passages to that effect. Anthropomorphism" are figures of speech, the writers used which represent God as having human characteristics, form are personality. But in reality God is Spirit. He has no human form, so He is not a man that He should lie or that He should repent. Meaning He does not change.
---ven. on 6/17/20


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Thank you Strong Ax. That was a good analogy. Calvinism does make GOD the one who causes us to live in sin.

Free will puts us to be responsible for our actions. I do agree with some parts of Calvin's teaching.

Those who use Persistence or Security of the Believer from TULIP have to me a hard time supporting that one point out of Tulip. When they reject the rest.

AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 6/17/20


Strongaxe, it doesn't, but that's how some choose to debate, pulling out their arsenal of high and lofty words shooting you with, that ....OH BY THE WAY ARE POWERLESS , as true Christians are told to put on the WHOLE ARMOUR OF GOD, listed in Ephesians 6:10-18, says nothing at all about pulling "our" words not in scripture to flog your imaginary enemy with. Oh their big bag of "their" WORDS is all they have, because ..hay, why bother growing in the Grace and knowledge of Jesus since there is no reason to. They have no weapons ....reminds me of Judges 5. Actually today reminds me of Judges 5-6. And Calvinist's are clearly spotted by the ones who DID NOT come to the aid of the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/20


ven:

What does anthropomorphim have to do with anything we have been discussing?

The only kind of sovereignty God grants us is freedom to choose our OWN actions. This way, we are responsible for them, and he can judge us for our choices. If we are NOT free to choose our actions, as they are totally up to God to choose for us, then by what kind of rationale can God judge us, because we're only doing things HE made us do in the first place?

It would be like you buying a toaster, setting the control knob to "charcoal", making toast, and then blaming the toaster for giving you charcoal. It isn't the toaster's fault, because IT was doing exactly what YOU told it to do.

I also never said men were righteous.
---StrongAxe on 6/17/20


Since no one has seen God, even ven has no clue what God has, doesn't have, etc either, having no place here to lecture others. My God is not Human, HOWEVER the mediator between God and man, Is THE MAN Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5. Hebrews 1-2. Now ven might get in a wad over that, however that is what Scripture states. God who no one could see entered our dwelling place by CHANGING aka the incarnation, so that God Himself through His Son could communicate with man in his sinful flesh. ( another point Calvinist's overlook) unless they are saying Jesus isn't God?

Interestingly too, look at the multitudes who came to the Sermon on the Mount....to HEAR , SEE Jesus preach. Another point Calvinists overlook.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/20


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Axe, when you read the Bible you should already know that our God is not a human being, with arms and legs, He is Spirit. So when the Bible writers, write about God having arms and legs it means the writers were using what are known as, "Anthropomorphism" which are figures of speech which represent God as having human characteristics, form or personality.
God does not have vocal cords, real eyes with pupils,and retinas. You should already know this when you study about God. Remember, no one has seen God.
---ven. on 6/16/20


I find it interesting those who insist God does not change, which scripture says Jesus is the same Yesterday , today and tomorrow, argue that they can't understand God repented making Saul King, because Saul disobeyed God who forbid Israel to have anything to do with witchcraft, sorcery etc, can't see that Trump having Paula White as his personal spiritual mentor, advisor for this country's spirituality is seeking after witchcraft and has her on the WH payroll. All WOF is witchcraft folks. So why does ven and others argue with this, and trample over others as false teachers or ignorant of scripture in defending the very thing God preaches against? IT was wrong then and wrong now, and no excuses defending it is acceptable.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/20


Axe, I was sure you knew the God of the Bible. I am sorry if I offended you with my answers. I know now you just don't.
It is great if people could bring God down to their level. This way man can be sovereign also, as you suggested and man can reject Him even reject loving Him if they want, just like man do in life with a woman. Love them or reject them.
It would be great for man to have power over God that way, but man does not have power over God. "We love Him because He first loved us" 1 John 4:19.
" There is none righteous, no not one, There is none who understands, There is none who seeks after God, They have all turned aside,..
Romans 3:10-12.
---ven. on 6/16/20


ven:

I'm not preaching "another God". I'm just going by what the authors of scripture actually wrote. If you think they were wrong, and want to preach a God who is different than what scripture authors wrote about, it is YOU who is preaching "another God".
---StrongAxe on 6/16/20


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God always wants to save us. He loves us. But when we refuse to do right. He will let us go and die in our sins. Repent is used differently for us. We are sinners and need to stop living in hate and sin. We need to be sorry for our life of sin and turn to GOD. In repentance.

True the Bible uses the word repent for GOD. That is to show how he will do right. If we change.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/15/20


Axe, God does not change. Again, no matter how much you want to make God to your liking, he is not a man that He should change or that that He is affected by sorrow or other feelings which are common to human being. However, it was necessary for the inspired biblical writers to use terms which are more comprehensible to the minds of human beings. A person cannot conceive of God except in human terms.
So before you preach another God, I wanted to correct you so others who read know the real God of the Bible.
He does not change, repent, change His mind because some how He made a mistake. He never err or ever overlooks anything. That is the true God of Scripture.
---ven. on 6/15/20


Kath, study to be approve. You have the wrong God. You created a god that you can talk about. One that is human like you, who makes mistakes, because he didn't know things were going to turn out different. No wonder you believe in free will. next to that god you can do what you want. You can even teach rebellion, and it's OK with your god.
---ven. on 6/15/20


Yes and God repented he made Saul King and replaced Saul. Here's the thing, the sovereignty of God is in His Covenant promises . If God had said after Adam, I WILL NEVER DESTROY MAN OR THE EARTH , then God cannot change His mind and do it. If God had said Saul will be made King no matter what, and then goes back on His word , that makes God a liar. IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE...IS WHAT HIS SOVEREIGNTY IS ABOUT. God promised Noah he would never destroy the earth again with a flood. A SOVEREIGN PROMISE. But those things that God never PROMISED God can and does change His mind. Nineveh repented without ever being asked to repent, turning away Gods wrath.

Redefining the true meaning of words for your own purposes is CULTISH.
---kathr4453 on 6/15/20


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ven:

1) God Created man, and he said that "it was good"
2) Later, God, seeing that man had sinned, decided to destroy man.

Jonah 2:10
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way, and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them, and he did it not.

1) God had decided to destroy Nineveh
2) He later changed his mind, and didn't do it.

These are both pretty clear examples of God changing his mind.

It's possible for God to be sovereign, while still allowing free will. This is why we aren't robots, and while the Law of Moses is a set of commands we can choose to obey, unlike the law of gravity, which we must obey whether we want to or not.
---StrongAxe on 6/14/20


Axe, you interpret Genensis 6:6 as God changing His mind when you say:
"
Genesis 6:6 (KJV) literally says "repent" as that's what God did. After having created man and said "it was good", he thought about it again, and changed his mind."

God does not change. God does not repent, ""God is not a man that He should lie, Nor is He a man, that He should repent." Numbers 23:19.
1 Samuel 15:29: " And also the strength of Israel will not lie, nor relent"
Mal.3:6, "For I am the Lord I do not change, ..." Just something to shew on. He changes not, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
---ven. on 6/14/20


As I was pointing out in scripture REPENT has many different meanings. STRONGS has REPENT in Genesis 6:6 as well as God REPENTING He made Saul King. 1 Samuel 15:35. That on no way undermines the Sovereignty of God.

I simply suggest getting a STRONGS and look up the original meaning rather than rely solely on our lame English that falls short, rather than jumping in to disagree just to disagree and stalk your imaginary enemy,because you have nothing more constructive to do with your time.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/20


ven:

"Repent" comes from Latin words for "think" and "again". It means you think about something a second time, re-evaluate your position, and maybe reach a different conclusion. E.g. you habitually doing one thing, but when you think about it, you change your mind.

Genesis 6:6 (KJV) literally says "repent" as that's what God did. After having created man and said "it was good", he thought about it again, and changed his mind.

It is always a good idea to constantly re-examine what we do and believe, to make sure what they are, are actually the right things. Sometimes (hopefully most of the time) we conclude that they WERE the right things. This is repentance too.
---StrongAxe on 6/14/20


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Thats a great answer Kathrine, thanks.
---David on 6/14/20


Geneses 6:6 does not teach that God repented. God was grieved, sorry, not repented. Repent means to change. In the case of people, it means to change their ways. God does not change, He is the same yesterday, today and forever.
---ven. on 6/14/20


Repent means to change your mind, to turn from one thing to another. It says in Genesis God repented Genesis 6:6 .....so it doesn't always mean to live in obedience to God. It may result in a life of obedience because one has changed their mind. I also believe as we live in submission to the Lord, and as we grow up into Christ growing into having the mind of Christ we are continually exchanging our old mindset to surrender to the mindset of Christ. But as I grow, I'm not continually beating myself up ( repenting) but rejoicing in the truth and rejoicing in that growth, being changed from Glory to Glory by the Spirit of the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/20


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