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Would you take the Covid-19 vaccination if it was mandatory? Why or why not?

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 ---Steveng on 6/23/20
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Funny ven uses the verse re The Cross, ....I guess if he says it, it's not a piece of wood, but when I say anything about the cross, somehow it's only a piece of wood. What is even more telling is Calvinist's don't adhear to the cross, they adhear to election. The preaching of the cross is NOT....GOD PICKED ME, OH MY GOD PICKED ME. That's not the Gospel or the preaching of the Cross.

Here's the preaching of the cross:

For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son to die on a cross, for our sins, and not only ours but the sins of the whole world, that whosoever...meaning this includes Gentiles as well as Jews, BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish but have eternal life.
---kathr4453 on 7/6/20

There is no scripture that the Holy Spirit makes you ALIVE first so that you can hear the Gospel and Believe. The WORD OF GOD is living and powerful itself in its own right, JESUS SAID MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE John 6:63 So now we see Romans 10 is true . The preaching of the Gospel is all that's needed to pierce between soul and spirit joint and marrow..Hebrews 4. The WORD is more powerful than our fallen nature. ven says man's fallen state is more powerful than God. YIKES He puts God on a very small powerless scale equal to man. That's horrible. My God is more powerful than ven's god

Where is ven's scripture?
---kathr4453 on 7/6/20


And, pray tell, WHY do people "want to" sin? Because sin is in their NATURE. And why is it in their nature? Who created that nature in the first place? Who created Adam? Who put the Tree in Eden KNOWING IN ADVANCE HE WOULD EAT FROM IT?

We have corrupt nature BECAUSE GOD DESIGNED US THAT WAY FROM BEFORE THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE EARTH. Jesus, after all, is the "Lamb slain from the foundations of the earth", so before Adam, before the Garden, before the Earth itself, God had already planned how it was all going to come out, yes?

Again, if God can "magically" make us read the Bible, he can "magically" save us without having to read it, like the thief on the cross.
---StrongAxe on 7/6/20

Axe, you also say, "Why do you complain to kathr or me, if we will be saved (or not), regardless of what you say?
We are told when someone is teaching the wrong Gospel, we are to remind them of the Truth. Do I care if you both are save? Yes I do care. But I cannot change you mind or your heart, God has to do that. Why not ask the right questions? How can a spiritually dead person respond to the Gospel? To a spiritually dead person, the Gospel is foolishness.
"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but unto us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor. 1:18.
---ven on 7/6/20

Axe, First: "It's not that "God does what we desire". It's that God gives US the freedom to choose to do what WE desire,"
Man is slave to sin. His dead, really dead. He cannot respond to the Gospel of his salvation, or believe the Word of God. " and holds us accountable for that choice. He exhorts us to follow him, but does not COMPEL us to do so.
He finds us guilty because He does not make you sin, you sin because you want to. "Why do you think the Bible exists in the first place? Why does the Gospel exist?" People who are chosen will be born, in sin. At some point or another the Holy Spirit will make them alive.They will come to Christ by hearing the Word of God and believing.
---ven. on 7/5/20

One problem with Calvinism is they either don't understand justification, or just plain don't believe the scriptures concerning justification. One must first be justified by faith. This is your LEGAL STANDING BEFORE GOD. It is NOT your Born Again experience. You see, Martin Luther was the one in the RCC who so wonderfully wrote about Justification by faith. The Catholics hated it. Calvin being at one time a Catholic must have hated it too, along with Martin Luther, and made up his own doctrine ...REFORMED CATHOLICISM. It's the RCC, illigitimate child . Calvin also believed in infant baptism, and murdered the annabaptists who disagreed with that Catholic doctrine. Folks, Calvinism is reformed Catholicism, still got it wrong.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/20


It's not that "God does what we desire". It's that God gives US the freedom to choose to do what WE desire, and holds us accountable for that choice. He exhorts us to follow him, but doesnot COMPEL us to do so.

Why do you think the Bible exists in the first place? Why does the Gospel exist? If people are automatically saved or not, according to God's whims, they don't need to read a Bible to learn to be saved - God can just yank their marionette strings.

But we DO have a Bible, and we are saved through faith, and faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God - NOT by God pulling our strings.

Why do you complain to kathr or me, if we will be saved (or not), regardless of what you say?
---StrongAxe on 7/4/20

ven , Just because one does not believe in your CULT doctrine, does not mean they are guilty of all your accusations here. This is what you have been taught by your cult leaders to keep you in that cult, by making you believe if you don't stay where you are that is what you become or believe. They also want to make sure you've been brainwashed to believe those who oppose are enemies of God. You couldn't be further from the truth. I actually feel sorry for you ven, and all those Satan has a stronghold over.

We are sealed and filled with the Holy Spirit AFTER WE BELIEVE, not before. Your doctrine is not grounded in the Word if God, but in mans philosophy and theories. I'll keep you in my prayers ven.
---kathr4453 on 7/5/20

But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you have been save )" Eph. 2:4,5.
---ven. on 7/4/20

This ven is where you use scripture in one place that clearly says we are MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST, but then you say the Holy Spirit makes you SPIRITUALLY ALIVE before even believing in Jesus Christ. You see, scripture doesn't lie. Also this verse is in keeping with Romans 6, where one must first die with Christ before being MADE ALIVE IN CHRIST, ala our resurrection life IN CHRIST. The Holy Spirit is not first resurrecting our sinful flesh to then be crucified with Christ . YIKES.
---kath4453 on 7/5/20

Kath, you are doing the opposite of 2 Tim. 4:2. Infect we are warned against people like you who twist the truth. You preach a god who is a human God who does what you desire. You can love him if you want,or you can reject him if you want in your spiritual death that you are in. Here is the truth about salvation, while you are dead in trespasses and sin you cannot come to Christ, you have to be made alive by God, "But God who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ, (by grace you have been save )" Eph. 2:4,5.
---ven. on 7/4/20


Flu vaccines are not totally effective because flu viruses mutate frequently, so you need a new vaccine each year. Still, the vaccine IS fairly effective against its specific flu, and offers some lesser protection against others.

Now compare vaccines against other plagues like polio and smallpox. Those were practically eliminated with vaccines. We have not seen polio for decades, but now we see some again because of anti-vaxxers.

Yes, some people die from vaccines and seatbelts, but FAR more lives are saved by both of these.

Trump Derangement Syndrome is believing everything Trump says and does without using discernment to see if they are true or good.
---StrongAxe on 7/4/20

Jerry, having the right to objects to what is injected into your body, something has made me sick over the past week and I still can't get over it. The murder of a young Black boy in Colorado who was not only in a choke hold ..(did anyone see how small this kid was)..but was also injected with a drug ad well by those police. Then died 3 days later. I'd like to know what right police have in injecting any drug into anyone. They are not Dr.s. did not first check his medical history to see if that drug would harm him, the guy possibly being diabetic or something else that would have caused a fatal reaction. That horrifies me to no end. Do you find police brutality and murder here? Just wondering if you think that's ok but vaccines are not.
---kathr4453 on 7/4/20

Would you take the Covid-19 vaccination if it was mandatory? Why or why not?

No. Flu vaccines are historically ineffective. Injected people still get the flu. The vaccines contain dangerous toxins. I have the right to say what is injected into my body.

There is a more dangerous pandemic than COVID19, and several people on this website have it. It's called Trump Derangement Syndrome.

---jerry6593 on 7/4/20

Ven randomly pick verses he doesn't understand. That verse would apply to TRUMP, with his nasty nicknames, hate speech, totally ruining others reputations by slandering he learned from Roy Coen, comes out of "his" heart. Trump is guilty of all 7 sins GOD HATES. Proverbs 6:16-19. ven is guilty of calling evil good and good evil. So WOE TO YOU VEN, direct warning from God.

2Timothy 4:2 is a direct command from God to us to REBUKE ETC. so all this shaming for standing up for the truth is actually from Satan ven. It's obvious who has a stronghold over you. Also claiming you preexisted. GOT QUESTIONS ven may explain to you your heresy, also Calvinist's who answer those questions. Blows your THEORY right out of the water.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/20

Ven, please take the oak tree out of your eye. The only thing coming out of your mouth is heresy, and dung. You are out if control with your rantings because I call you out on your nonsense. Yes, we are to REBUKE, REPROVE, false teachers. I have Gods permission to rebuke and expose you. I also have a wonderful personal relationship with the Lord, who has gifted me for the purpose of exposing false doctrine and teachers in the Church. You have no spiritual gift, that is only given to those who obey Romans 12, you protested shows you have no clue. These gifts are stated right after verse 2.

Keep up your rantings ven, as too many more may get you bounced off CN. You wouldn't be the first Calvinist Mormon who was bounced off.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/20

I'm also not under the Law ven, but under Grace. The Law was done away IN CHRIST. Those IN CHRIST are under GRACE. Again you assault with heresy again, yet claim you are the all knowing guru here on line. You need to stop pulling up verses that don't apply to the BOC unless you now say you too are under the law and still a sinner. We,in God's eyes are SAINTS,and in Christ a NEW CREATURE, Where God no longer sees us after out sinful flesh, but IN CHRIST ONLY WHO IS NOT A SINNER. Wow the more you talk ven, the more you give away you know nothing about salvation by Grace except to say you got picked. YIKES. Totally shallow .
---kath4453 on 7/3/20

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I NEVER called walking a ramp slowly a sin.

Trump BOASTS of going after married women and defrauding contractors. Adultery and theft are sins. We should repent our sins, and God will forgive them. Trump BOASTS of never being sorry for ANYTHING. "Forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE". Trump never forgives, but seeks revenge. Are these "nothing"?!

Paula White effectively called Jesus "Satan" when she said "anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan". You have problems with Obama's pastor, but not with Trump's?!

Why are you so quick to judge Obama's sins, and Wright's, and kathr's, and mine, yet when Trump's are mentioned, "we should not judge"?
---StrongAxe on 7/3/20

Kath, who are you to talk about someone sins when you know everyone is a sinner, including yourself, you break one, and you have broken them all. And just here you have broken many. You forget Matthew 15:18"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from heart, and they defile a man" I know what has come out of your mouth not just to me but to many, I looked at your past post. Yes, we are all sinners.
Axe, picks on every thing Trump does, and everything is always wrong. He had to many wives, he walked down a ramp slowly, and the rest are accusations, with no proof of any wrong doing. For three years they have looked for wrong doings yet have found nothing.
---ven. on 7/3/20

Norman Vincent Peale is not a Christian either by definition of Christian, was Trumps pastor, Trump Claims. The power of positive thinking IS also known as THE SECRET, believing you can WILL into creation anything you want. This too is where WOF gets its heresy. That we are little gods who can speak things into existance by our own will power, mind power. Boy if that isn't a direct opposition to Calvinism, or even mainstream Christianity nothing is. Yet ven defends Trump and trashes Obama' s beliefs. Such hypocricy. Is this why Trump said the virus would mysteriously disappear. His wishful magical thinking possibly based on a heretical belief sysyem? I call that MURDER IN THE FIRST. And no I'm not cursing God by exposing Trumps madness.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/20


My goodness ven, this is well known of Trump. It showed it also in THE AMERICAN GOSPEL. SORRY, but when one says they are a good person and no need to repent, they have rejected the Gospel, that all have SINNED and fallen short of the Glory of God. Jesus said the only GOOD PERSON was God. Now it's strange one holds to all others being depraved but the Calvinist, yet give Trump a pass because WHY? Trump is not a Calvinist ...for one, and if not, then he's depraved...right? Satan 's offspring what you say others are who are not the elect. The hypocricy of Calvinism.
---kathr4453 on 7/3/20

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Obama is married once and attends Chursh regularly. Trump never goes to church, can't quote any Bible verse, his favorite is "eye for eye", was married 3x, cheated on every wife, defrauded thousands of contractors, never sorry for anything, seeks revenge, AND BOASTS OF THESE.

He Paula White, who said "anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan". Jesus said "deny yourself, take up the cross, and follow me". She preaches prosperity "gospel", and asked people to give HER their January salary.

Obama He RETURNED Iran's OWN MONEY stolen from them after the revolution. He made a treaty with them to not make nukes THAT TRUMP TORE UP.
---StrongAxe on 7/2/20

Axe, I respected Obama, even though he was not a Christian. His church was not Christian. They called themselves called themselves Christian. There preacher was not teaching salvation by grace. He was preaching terrorist attacks on the United States. His name was Jeremiah Wright. I heard him preach on an editorial. He was against Israel. That's why Obama gave all that money back to Iran. Now they have more money to continue bombing and make weapons to kill more Americans. Right before he left he let go all the prisoners from the Middle East so now they are ready to do more bombings against Americans and those helping us over seas. How is that for a President? Not one I would vote for. I would take Trump over guys like him any time..
---ven. on 7/2/20

Kath you also said more lies when you said:

If you watched American Gospel you would have seen Trump is not a Christian, has never repented or says he's a sinner. Quite the opposite."
You could not possibly know whether Trump repented before God. You are not God. then you say " And being against abortion doesn't automatically make you a Christian nor does being a conservative Republican.
Of course not. Obama could have been against abortion, but he was for the slaughter of innocent infants. Obama belonged to a terrorist church. He belonged to Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago.
---ven. on 7/2/20


I asked you the question, because I didn't know where you stood on the issue. Thanks for answering. I thought Trump was the worst possible choice, but I was willing to accept him as president, but so many things that he has done have demonstrated that he is neither capable of the office, nor worthy of it. He swore to uphold and defend the Constitution, yet so many things he has said demonstrate that he either doesn't know what it says, or knows but doesn't care - both of which put him in violation of his oath of office. If God put Trump in office, he put the Constitution in power over him as well.
---StrongAxe on 7/1/20

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If you watched American Gospel you would have seen Trump is not a Christian, has never repented or says he's a sinner. Quite the opposite. And being against abortion doesn't automatically make you a Christian nor does being a conservative Republican. I also see Trump being responsible for 125,000 plus deaths here and will end close to 1,000,000 when this is over. He's lied putting many lives at risk. So he is only using Christians with the abortion issue to get power for his own ill gotten greed. And naive Christians can't see through this charade. You can't claim to care about fetal life and not care about all life....even black life. Any conservative Republican could have appointed conservative judges to the SC.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/20

Strongaxe,I heard about the book, on hold until July 10th until her lawyers can present a case it should be published.

I just want to make a point. Yes in the OT God said he sets up kings and takes then down according to His purpose, however the office of the President is not a KING with total authority, as there are equal branches of our government with as much power equally as the President, and then as some say WE THE PEOPLE also have a voice. So to claim God put Trump in place as the ultimate authority
doesn't work because the Supreme Court ...just as powerful, shot down abortion , LGBQ, etc. So did God not also put them in place as well? Congress also has equal power in this country, and many Democrats GOD ALSO PUT in place.
---kathr4453 on 7/1/20

Axe, I did except Obama as my president when he was president. God put him there as our leader. You seem to think I think like you but I don't. I follow where is for God the Father and His commandments. What they are for, makes a big difference. Trump believes in the Christian faith, and he is against abortion. Which is dear to my heart. When adults can murder an infant, again, the breaking of the skull, and sucking their brains out with a vacuum, and in turn want to save the dogs and cats, that just tells you how bad we can get. Remember the Jews? Millions were murdered no one even noticed just like the infants, a human life.
---ven. on 7/1/20

Yes I would take it. I also wear a mask and cannot wait for a competent person to take his place. Hopefully,.
---Samuelbb7 on 6/30/20

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Trump got a restraining order to stop Mary's book. He claims to be "the most transparent president ever", yet is constantly trying to hide, suppress, and bury truth at every opportunity. He claims every conversation is privileged, forbids people from testifying, forbids transcripts from being released, refuses to allow translators in meetings with Putin to keep notes, and sues to prevent books from being published.

Jesus said, "I am the Truth", but that is the antithesis of Trump.


When Obama was president, did YOU accept him as God's Chosen? Most Evangelicals who claim Trump is God's Chosen also decried Obama as the devil, showing their hypocrisy in this area.
---StrongAxe on 6/30/20

You said Kath, "
Ven God didn't appoint Trump for our good. He's losing. Hopefully God will appoint a David who cared for the people. Even raising Joseph up in Egypt was to care not only for Israel, but ALL THE NATION'S"

Kath, for your information, God appoints our leaders, whether you like the leader or not. God does not chose leaders to your liking. He does not wait for your approval. He chooses for our good or to teach us a lesson. But whoever He chooses, it is always the right decision for Him.
And please do not suggest that Biden is David. You are far from the Truth. You indicate you want more unborn babies to be slaughter by having their heads open and sucking their brains out. A very good Christian you are.
---ven. on 6/30/20

Strong axe, I know, and now we seem to have another issue one claims denial about. It will be interesting to see how this will be wiggled out if. Many think he will resign, then to suffer a humiliation of a loss. With Mary's book coming out soon, Trumps niece, more hearings over soldiers being killed for a bounty, mismanaged Covid now on the rise, will for sure affect jobs, businesses now more than ever with probably no more stimulus for anyone...Christians reeling that abortions are not outlawed, Dreamers protected, LGBQ protected, many GOP distancing themselves, doesn't look good for the Chosen One. These next few months will be interesting.
---kathr4453 on 6/30/20


This administration botched the this crisis from day one. After initial spike, Europe's numbers tapered off and are now low, while U.S. numbers remain high. Death toll is now at 1/4 of the world's, 5x what population would expect.

Trump's answer? Our numbers are bad! Let's NOT TEST PEOPLE. If I throw out the scales, I'll stop getting fat! This is an ostrich putting its head in the sand to avoid truth.

He is cutting funding for testing. His administration petitioned SC to invalidate Obamacare, depriving 20 MILLION Americans of health care. He INSISTS his rally goers NOT wear masks. IN A PANDEMIC.

This man and his administration are clear and present dangers to the health of every person in this country.
---StrongAxe on 6/29/20

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Trump is losing. Doesn't look like he's on the side of God or vice versa. God doesn't need to lie and cheat to win. God is not joined unbelievers. We are told as Christians not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers, yet some think God is yoked with Trump...who brings shame to Christianity. When the Beast, anti_Christ or whatever you want to call him IS RULING THE WORLD , those who do not bow down to him will not reap the wrath of God. Those who do, will suffer the eternal wrath of God. Looks like free will here too. Jesus also warned there would be many anti_Christs in this world. In no doubt in powerful places too like Hitler. In no way are we to be bullied into being shut up. I always knew Calvinism would play a role in end times.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/20

Ven God didn't appoint Trump for our good. He's losing. Hopefully God will appoint a David who cared for the people. Even raising Joseph up in Egypt was to care not only for Israel, but ALL THE NATION'S .

When Trump brought Paula White onto the WH payroll he like Saul delved into WITCHCRAFT, just as Saul did, and God repented CHANGED HIS MIND and ended Saul and put David as King. I'm afraid it's you ven who does not know God's character or HOLINESS.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/20

This must be the stronghold Satan has over many generic Christians who are in fear of speaking out against Trump because they think a curse will come upon them. That's Benny Hinn, Paula White snake oil garbage . No scripture ever makes such a declaration. Could this false doctrine be why so many in Nazi Germany just kept their mouth shut and looked the other way. NOPE ven, speaking truth as Stephen did, even if it results in death is what Christianity is all about. Again, you comment is falsehood and needs to be rebuked.
---kathr4453 on 6/29/20

kath, when you open your mouth you bring curses to yourself. Now you Judge God on His appointment of a leader and then laugh at the statement you made. Who are you to judge God? You said: "Looks like God, as God felt with Saul , REPENTED that he made Trump KING...HA!"
Don't you ever notice what comes out of your mouth? Here is what Scripture says concerning what comes out of the mouth: "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man Matthew 15:18. And the mouth brings blessings an curses, James 3:10. So we know where your heart is.
---ven. on 6/29/20

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My wife works in a hospital and not only does she wear a mask, but also goggles. Most people dont know it, but you can actually get it through the membrane of the eye.

I see the mask as a way to limit the distance, a person who may have Covid from spreading it. For example, If someone who has it, sneezes or coughs unmasked, their germs go much farther than if they are wearing a mask. A sneeze or cough in a crowd, tends to get everyones attention these days.

Some folks are really terrified of this virus and if you are not wearing a mask, you may find yourself in a dangerous situation.
---David on 6/29/20

Strong axe, yes I saw this on the news and how rediculous this idea is. I wonder if Kellyann Conway' s alternative facts factored here too. Who exactly started that bull. It's frightening to see just how selfish and crazy so many are, following Trump and Pence's example. I wonder if we would have all this if they had been an example to begin with. Blind leading the blind.

Yes David, a sign of end times is the utter selfishness of man...lack of love for others, and TRUMP the god-father of this horror in our country. He's the devil alright. Hopefully folks are starting to wake up to this. His senior supporters are dropping him like a hot potato. Looks like God, as God felt with Saul , REPENTED that he made Trump KING...HA!
---kathr4453 on 6/29/20

Steven, what was the purpose for posting the question? What kind of answers were you looking for?
---ven. on 6/28/20


Based on the the claims of anti-maskers, what we are seeing a lot of today is Schroedinger's Mask: a mask that is simultaneously too thin to stop any disease particles from going in and out, making it ineffective at disease containment, yet at the same time thick enough that it keeps oxygen out, and carbon dioxide in, making it difficult to breathe.
---StrongAxe on 6/28/20

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Mandatory or not, sign me up. Why?
I agree with Kathrine. If you get it you can spread it...if you spread it, you can kill people.

How would you like that on your conscience? If the virus didnt kill you, the guilt would. But...if you did everything in your power to keep from getting it, or spreading it, you probably wouldnt feel as bad, should it happen.
---David on 6/28/20

Well we see many refuse to put on a mask, claiming its violating their constitutional right to be selfish and self centered. Steveng, just do yourself a favor and go and get infected and get over your fears. If you think it's overblown, just go find a hospital with sick patients and ask them to spit on you. Then go home and infect your wife and kids etc.
---kathr4453 on 6/27/20


Steveng is an anti-vaxxer, and believes all vaccinations are inherently evil, and being vaccinated is on a similar order as taking the Mark of the Beast. (I might be exaggerating a little, but not much).

In the past weeks, we have seen a new trend - anti-maskers who refuse to wear face masks, and say forcing people to wear masks is endangering people's lives (i.e. "I can't breathe!") and taking away their freedoms.

Curiously, there is a large overlap between the anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers. Both short-sightedly (and selfishly) place their own freedom above the safety of others, which they endanger by taking actions that make them more likely to be disease spreaders.
---StrongAxe on 6/27/20

Steven, I sure would if it was mandatory and someone had a gun to my head. Of course some would refuse, that always happens and they would get shot in the head. So why refuse? Take the shot.
---ven. on 6/27/20

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A better question is, would you take it if were VOLUNTARY?

Vaccines are proven to dramatically lower incidence of infections. Cemetaries were full of tombstones to children who died from polio, and many were left in iron lungs for life. Then with the discovery of the vaccine, it was wiped out almost over night. Now, 60 years later, it is making a come back. Anti-vaxxers are refusing sound science, and once-extinct diseases like polio and the measles are coming back, killing their children, and others' children too as collateral damage.

But I know you're an anti-vaxxer, so you will continue to believe whatever fits your paranoid preconceptions.
---StrongAxe on 6/25/20

Why not ask, " would you take the vaccine when and if it becomes available?" The question YOU'RE asking isn't about the vaccine, but would you reject anything that is mandatory? Taking a driving test before given a license is mandatory. Passing med school before operating on someone is mandatory. Without these two examples if anyone could do it, with out passing tests required, it could result in the death of another. We can't have that now can we? So if this were an Ebola vaccine would you feel differently? Ebola has a 99percent death rate. So is your objection that Covid only kills less people, so those folks don't matter?

Yes, I would take it because I don't want anyone to die because I selfishly gave it to them.
---kathr4453 on 6/25/20

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