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Importance Of Free Will

How important is our free will? And do we have free will that God cannot touch? Does God have free will? And what is the definition of free will?

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 ---ven. on 8/8/20
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I have free will to sin.
God is sovereign. God is God and I am man.
The scriptures tell me that God does his will and no man can say to him what doest Thou?
The scriptures also tell me that God works in me both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
The scriptures tell me that I love him BECAUSE he first love me.
The scriptures also tell me that God does not love everyone. There's a shock for some.
Romans 9:13.
---trey on 11/14/20


Linda: "see Jerry6593 on 9/6/20 'Is God in Control"

Sorry Linda, but I didn't post anything on 9/6/20 on that blog. I post little here anymore because of the constant barrage of leftist lies and disinformation about our President. The Democrat Party has become the party of hate.

I pray for our President's re-election!


---jerry6593 on 11/3/20


Thank you Linda. The problem here isn't "free will" but the Gospel itself is being challenged, using the "no free will " as some sort of smoke screen Satan uses to disrupt the Gospels GOOD NEWS, as Satan is the one blinding the eyes. He has all sorts of tricks up his sleeve to disrupt the preaching of the GLORIOUS GOSPEL, doing all he can to throw shade ..so the LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL is being obscured by some nonsense of no free will. It's really sad to think of how many Satan has in the bondage of this false idea ,arguing a point that is never stated from Genesis to Revelation. Their argument is nill, because we too believe ONLY GOD SAVES, as there is no way our own blood can forgive our own sin. Hebrews 10.
---kathr4453 on 9/20/20


Good points Linda
---Samuelbb7 on 9/17/20


Here again I see many believe in free will, having openly declared this on ChristiaNet. But what I would like to point out is this constant singling out of Kathr, and ven's name calling and false accusations towards her because of her beliefs. Yet ven does not do this towards others.

I've also been watching ven for sometime. What I see is a purposeful systematic assault on one person here, all the while playing some victim for the purpose of a personal smear campaign.

ven's motives here and on other subjects is obvious, when joining forces with other name callers...see Jerry6593 on 9/6/20 'Is God in Control'.

---Linda on 9/17/20




ven:

We have free will, not by our own power, but because God himself chose to give it to us. If we didn't have free will, why would we constantly be exhorted to CHOOSE good over evil?

Satan is the "god of this earth", again, not by his own power, but because God put him in that position.
---StrongAxe on 9/15/20


God gave man free will to do things, that is why He finds them guilty of sin. Otherwise He would be sending people to hell for no good reason. But when our free will comes against God's free will, God is Sovereign and His will is absolute. Only He is Autonomous. Kath believes she is autonomous. That she can come to Christ if she so chooses, but
Jesus said:"This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by MY Father." John 6:65.
Jesus statement proofs that Kath and many others are wrong and might not have the right gospel or the right salvation.
---ven. on 9/15/20


mike:

The Bible says nothing against self-confidence. Yes, PRIDE and HUBRIS are sins. The sin of Lucifer - thinking you deserve to be above where God put you. But the opposite (thinking you deserve to be BELOW where God put you) can be equally toxic.

When God called Moses to lead Israel out of Egypt, Moses said, "Here I am - send Aaron". Jonah initially fled God's mandate to save Nineveh.

Jesus said one of the two greatest commandments is "Love your neighbor as yourself" - but how can you do that if you don't even love yourself in the first place? I'm not talking about narcissistic self-love that puts you above everyone else, just loving yourself as God loves you.
---StrongAxe on 9/12/20


God gave us free will but when you ask about self confidence it is a SIN. what about a SOUL or a person in genesis? what about christ who spoke up & told the pharisees hypocrites. pastors & stupid christians will say it is not biblical yet christ was not a doormat or robot. bible talks about stewardship skill, experience & knowledge -they said I created 2 more skills not lazy. look at lazy, stupid pastors who beg for money & profit using the word of god, love their CEO titles. is that self denial? you have to blindly obey their stupid teachings.
---mike on 9/10/20


Amen. Strong Ax.
---Samuelbb7 on 9/6/20




ven:

That's a very commendable attitude, and one we should all share. We should all consider truth to be more important than winning an argument.
---StrongAxe on 9/5/20


When it comes to the Gospel, I will always correct myself. I am not here to look good, but to bring the truth of the Gospel. It's never hard to do, you should try it sometimes. It will give you peace.
---ven. on 9/2/20


Thank you for acknowledging your error ven. That wasnt so difficult was it?

Christ in us shines His light through us as we go into the world and preach the gospel to those in darkness.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/20


Kath, I do not fail to understand anything as you claim. Jesus is the light of the world, now we as Christians are the light of the world. John the Baptist was a lamp, John 5:35. That is correct.
---ven. on 8/25/20


Are we THE CHURCH not to continue the very ministry the Apostles began? What is ven so afraid of?

God said to Paul:
Acts 26:16-18

16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee,

17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/20


Ven no one said it says every single person as we see many of their own free will resisted the Holy Spirit even to this day.

Please stop insinuating what you THINK others think a scripture means when no such comment was made in the first place. You failed to understand the context. WE ARE THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD AS Jesus hands and feet in this world. We are HIS BODY. We are to do so much more than John the Baptist.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/20


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Kath, you are again referring a passage that is taken out of context. Here the passage says: reconciling the world to Himself" Does not in anyway meaning that Jesus was saving every single person on earth, but the "world" here means every nation, not every person. Also, the passage has nothing to do with the Elect of God. God has many passages that speak of the Elect, and also those whose names are written in the Book of Life. And God has many passages that speak of those on the left, Not only here but also at the Great White Throne of Judgment.
---ven. on 8/24/20


Just as John the Baptist was anointed to preach the Gospel, so are we THOSE WHO ARE IN THE LIGHT AS HE IS IN THE LIGHT.

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation,19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world[ NOTE PAUL DOES NOT SAY THE ELECT] unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them, and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/20


Here is awesome scripture about John the Baptist. How much MORE are we, as Christ Body here on earth, called to do the same thing.

Luke 1:76And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways,77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people( his people here mean Israel) by the remission of their sins,78 Through the tender mercy of our God, whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,79 To give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.80 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/20


Secondly, the words SPIRITUALLY DEAD are found no where in scripture. Be careful of folks creating a fake straw man to promote their fake gospel. As I showed In 1 Corinthians 15, the first man Adam was not spiritual to begin with. The fallen angels you might say are SPIRITUALLY dead for all eternity. no scripture says mans spirit died. And it is impossible for Gods Spirit in us to die.

Romans 1-2 show right after Adam sinned....MAN CHANGED THE GLORY OF GOD into worshipping idols. God never hid HIS GLORY FROM THEM. Romans 1:23

Also note Exodus 24:16-17 Exodus 29:43, Exodus 40:34-35
---kath4453 on 8/23/20


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Kathr445 > you ask > "Can you show scripture we died a SPIRITUAL DEATH. According to 1 Corinthians 15:45-50 the first man Adam was earthly and not spiritual. The Last man Adam was is Spiritual. Also Job 32:8 the spirit of man.... Man is body soul and spirit. No scripture says the man's spirit died."

Well, in sin a person is conscious, but not alive in God's love. And I consider this >

"But she who lives in pleasure is dead while she lives." (1 Timothy 5:6)

For me, this means being love-dead > not alive in God's love.
---Bill on 8/23/20


Kath, This is what you say like someone who never heard of the Light shining on them. Guess who is the Light Kath? That is the Lord Jesus Christ. When God shows you the light He is presenting Jesus Our Savior. And when He does that everything should be more clear to you concerning the things of God.
"I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46.
Also from the time of Adam's sin, all who are born are born spiritually dead.
As the representative of the human race, Adam carried all of humanity into his sin. Paul makes this clear in Romans 5:12, telling us that sin and death entered the world and spread to all men through Adams sin.
---ven. on 8/23/20


"But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest AKA UNLESS the Light of the gospel of glory of Christ who is the image of God, should shine on them" God has to shine His light on them first.
---ven. on 8/21/20

The LIGHT God shines on them is THE LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL. Don't underestimate the word GLORIOUS here. The GLORY OF THE LORD was so bright it burned Pauls eyes . And we see in the OT The Glory of God was LIGHT. So if God said the LIGHT OF THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL, that light is so bright its OVERPOWERING any power puny Satan has.

Stop saying Satan is more powerful than God please. It's Blasphemy.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/20


Ven
If someone had free will, and they choose to serve God, they would not sin. Jesus says, if we sin, it is because we are slaves of sin. Though many can not accept this fact, God knows, one more powerful than man, keeps us in bondage.

And This is why God, throughout time, has been willing to forgive man of their sin. According to Paul, we are either slaves of sin, or servants of righteousness.

On either side of the coin, there is no perfect slave of sin, nor servant of righteousness, so in that imperfection, I guess one could say there is a free will.



---David on 8/22/20


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God shining His Light on someone is not the same as God putting His Spirit within you. Two totally different things. no scripture says when God shines His light on you that makes you SPIRITUALLY ALIVE. We are made SPIRITUALLY ALIVE as the result of first being crucified with Christ...AFTER YOU HEARD AFTER YOU BELIEVED.

But here again is a bunch of words ven states on his own. I can only hear GODS WORD. Vens words fall flat. There is no LIGHT in them because there is no truth in them.

Show scripture ven, and let Gods word speak for itself. We dont need your commentary telling us that black means white, yes means no and so on.

Show scripture that says when God shines His light on you you then are made ALIVE IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/20


The LIGHT of the Glorious Gospel has its own LIGHT. THE WORD OF GOD IS LIGHT in and of itself. Can't you read or is it plain English you don't understand?

GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.

Psalms 119:105, 130. 2 Peter 1:19.

You ven are described in Isaiah 8:20.

Israel was to be A LIGHT UNTO THE NATIONS. THE CHURCH TODAY IS THAT LIGHT. LET YOUR LIGHT SO SHINE.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/20


Can you show scripture we died a SPIRITUAL DEATH. According to 1 Corinthians 15:45-50 the first man Adam was earthly and not spiritual. The Last man Adam was is Spiritual. Also Job 32:8 the spirit of man.... Man is body soul and spirit. No scripture says the man's spirit died. It says our soul died. Ezekiel 18:4 , 28:20, Jesus came to redeem our SOUL, not our spirit. Now GODS SPIRIT WITHIN US is a whole new thing. But we know the soul actually never died right.
---kathr445 on 8/21/20


Kath, you do not understand the truth in front of you. You say:"
Ven no. We are not DEAD in a grave....so you misinterpret DEAD. one can HEAR THE GOSPEL, AS GOD HAS MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR SINNERS TO HEAR. AFTER ALL ITS ADDRESSED TO SINNERS, NOT THE SAINTS.

When God said For in the day that you eat of it, you shall surely die" That day they died a spiritual death. they could hear and see but not spiritually. Paul explains: "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the Light of the gospel of glory of Christ who is the image of God, should shine on them" God has to shine His light on them first.
---ven. on 8/21/20


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Bill I wholeheartedly agree. I believe many just don't understand the meaning of free will. To say if God has free will then we can't might be a start to identifying their peculiar definition. I'm not free to fly to the moon or back...however God is free to do that any time He wants.

Within God's plans God has given men a CHOICE TO CHOOSE LIFE OR DEATH. No one needs to be spiritually alive to know this and choose this. After that God takes it from there.

ven, many professing Christians are still carnally minded and don't understand things of the Spirit. THE MYSTERY for one.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/20


Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


What I see ven is a parallel of you offering up the forbidden fruit of Gnosticism that promises to OPEN MY EYES, .....but you are the one blind here. I will NEVER DISOBEY God by eating philosophy and vein deceipt. You have, and therefore nothing you say is THE PURE WORD OF GOD. So one FINAL WORD TO YOU HERE VEN....GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN.
---kath453 on 8/21/20


Kath, you read the Bible for nothing. You just don't understand it's meaning. For example the eyes and ears of the lost or the natural man. They cannot hear spiritual truth or discern it. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. You have to understand this points of Scripture. That's why we say the Light has to come to them, meaning Christ, and open their eyes and ears to the things of God.
---ven. on 8/21/20


Hi, Ven (c: If my will is free from God so I am making my own choices, I suspect this means I am acting in separation from God.

If I am truly free, I am choosing to submit to how our Father personally rules us in His own peace. Because this is part of our basic Christian calling >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body, and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

If we are not submissive to our Father in His own peace, our wills are operating in sin. And our wills, then, are acting in freedom from God!
---Bill on 8/21/20


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David, I see the verses more as an application of obedience than just a Bible lesson. We become Sons when we become saved. Sons are no longer servants. Just as Romans 8 say, that God no longer sees us after the flesh aka servants, but in the a Spirit if we belong to Christ...SONS.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/20


Ven no. We are not DEAD in a grave....so you misinterpret DEAD. one can HEAR THE GOSPEL, AS GOD HAS MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR SINNERS TO HEAR. AFTER ALL ITS ADDRESSED TO SINNERS, NOT THE SAINTS. BOTH CAIN AND ABEL were sinners. Yet both were on equal ground of understanding the Gospel Genesis 3:15. Abel obeyed and Cain did not. Cain was given a second chance to do what God asked of both of them. Cain refused. ENOCH walked with God. Nothing about him being made alive first. You add to scripture what is not there. The problem ven is you don't understand THE GOSPEL. THE REAL GOSPEL. Romans 10. 1 Cor 15:1-4
---kathr4453 on 8/20/20


Kathrine
Good to know, Thank you for your interpretation. Very educational!

I teach the verse this way.
In the verse, Paul is alluding to those who have yet to be chosen by God, in much the same way Jesus did in (John 8:34-35).

(John 8:34-35) Jesus answered them, Verily, verily I say unto you, whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever, but the Son abideth ever.

Here Jesus speaks of two members, living in the same house. The Son, who has been born of God, and The Servant of Sin,...one who has not been born of God. (1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin....
---David on 8/20/20


Kath, you now answered with. "To be MADE ALIVE out of death, you FIRST have to 1) hear the Gospel....faith comes by HEARING) 2)"
kath, what you suggest is impossible. how can you hear the gospel if you are dead.? You have to be made alive first in order to hear and belief. You are suggesting that spiritually dead people can hear spiritual matters. Not possible. I don't know where you were taught but whoever taught you does not know the gospel truth, and the answer did not take me 5 post to explain.
---ven. on 8/20/20


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David read Romans 12:1-2. Here again we see we are asked to present yourselves a living sacrifice HOLY AND ACCEPTABLE UNTO GOD, which is our reasonable service. It compliments Romans 6:13, because only those alive from the dead are Holy and acceptable. OUR ACCEPTABILITY is that we are NOW a new CREATURE "IN CHRIST". OUR BEING "IN CHRIST" is what makes us Holy and acceptable. We have no standing on our own. Always see yourself positionally " IN CHRIST. " AND CHRIST IN YOU. Now read the rest of Romans 6. Those who have yielded their life are now servants of righteousness. To be able to be a servant of righteousness one must know then Will of God. Remember Jesus said ONLY THOSE WHO DO THE WILL OF MY FATHER.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/20


David, AS THOSE are those who were baptized into His death... Probably following the example OF THOSE who were saved before them. Or just referring to them who he is talking to. We see a verse in Hebrews 7:27 KJV using the two words together AS THOSE, referring to the High Priests. I don't see any mysterious meaning there. Many Christians David are still roaming around still in the wilderness. Don't be AS THOSE. They came out but never entered in. Not everyone believes and obeys Romans 6-8...so only those who have are the "AS THOSE" WHO ARE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD. This is what distinguishes GRACE FROM LAW. The Law deals with the OLD MAN, FLESH. Christ in you deals with the NEW MAN . Gal 2:20-21
---kathr4453 on 8/19/20


David, Paul is addressing those who are saved in Romans 6-8---kathr4453

Kathrine
Not Romans 6-8, but (Romans 6:13). Paul says, Yield Yourselves....As those who are alive from the dead. Paul is telling someone, to be like someone else.

Those Who are Alive from the dead,...are obviously the saved, but who do you believe are the Yourselves Paul is talking to?

The whole verse....(Romans 6:13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, but yield yourselves unto God as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
---David on 8/19/20


Actually ven I never start a movie in the middle. I have to start from the beginning. Ephesians 2:1-10 like Romans 6 are talking to those already saved. So go back to Ephesians 1 where we see verse 13 states AFTER WE BELIEVE.....THEN THOSE THINGS HAPPEN. NOT BEFORE.

You said you have to be MADE ALIVE FIRST to believe. To be MADE ALIVE is being born again. To be MADE ALIVE out of death, you FIRST have to 1) hear the Gospel....faith comes by HEARING) 2) BELIEVE GOD'S PROMISES, which then is your justification ...then you died with Christ and are raised up together with Him. In that order...After we believe we are given the indwelling Holy Spirit. Not before.

Now you are playing dumb because you can't defend your doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/20


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David, Paul is addressing those who are saved in Romans 6-8 and Romans 12:1-2 Many complain there is a cheap grace...that is get saved and its ok to continue to sin, because heck, we're saved. However Scripture doesn't teach a cheap grace.

Here is an example. God promised Israel the land. But they had to by faith ENTER INTO the land. Now once in the land they have to deal with the ITES. This too is a type and shadow of our christian life. We continue to live BY FAITH in conquering those ITES ( sin ) in our lives. We have mountain highs and valley lows, and at times failures but we continue in this lifetime to live by the faith of Christ in us to be victorious over our ITES or flesn.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/20


Kath, you keep saying there has been many discussions in Calvinisms concerning the new birth. Where do you get that stuff from? Give evidence of what you said. This must be your own ideas.
If you want to know the truth of the gospel and how we are born again go to Ehp, 2:1-10. if you do not cut corners and read it straight out you will learn the truth and it will set you free.
---ven. on 8/18/20


Kathrine
Are you saying, you believe (Romans 6:13), is addressing folks who in the church, who are yet to be unsaved?This is who I believe Paul is referring to.

Many folks believe everyone who gives their life to Christ, in whatever manner is prescribed to them, is saved on the day they do what was prescribed to them. Which would mean, they were able to save themselves by what, they did.
---David on 8/18/20


ven, Calvinism believes regeneration comes first, then you have faith to believe. Then after you believe you are born again, again, but scripture never puts regeneration AKA Born again before faith. There have been many discussions with Reformed concerning this issue. Being raised up together with Him where you become a new CREATURE IS your born Again aka regeneration. When one is raised up together with Him, that only comes AFTER being baptized into His death, setting us free from sin. Yet you say you were regenerated but not set free from sin. Scripture in Romans 4-8 clearly show step by step the order of our salvation.
Calvinism believes in a different order stating they are MADE ALIVE FIRST, and then again after faith.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/20


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Dear kathr4453 Great point. When we are buried in Baptism we are to be dead to living in sin.


God gave Ten Commandments not suggestions.
Agape.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/17/20


kath, again you come out with something I have never discussed. I have never, and no one I have known have never said :"
Ven, you just gave yourself away, as that is a major point in Reformed Theology. Something that has been discussed here with Markv and other Calvinists endlessly.

The question has always been presented to Reformed to explain why they say they are born again twice."

No reformer that I know , and I know many, have ever said we are born again twice. Please stop passing lies.
---ven. on 8/17/20


Great question David. I believe the verse is saying it's our responsibility seeing when we put our faith in Jesus for the forgivness of sin, that seeing we died with Christ and are raised up together with Him ..that we are now from that made alive from the dead...this death is our identification with Jesus as is also stated in Galatians 2:20-21 , that Paul clearly teaches OUR PART then is to yield our NEW MEMBERS to Christ ...as I believe many do teach a total surrender , which I experienced when the Lord said to me after I was saved....I WANT YOUR WHOLE LIFE. And I said YES. Then the Lord also brought me to Romans 12:1-2 to reiterate this truth.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/20


Kathrine
I have asked many people that question and never really got an answer as discernible as yours. Not that I believe as you do, but its helpful to get an understanding of what others believe as it pertains to (Romans 6:8).

The below passage is obviously written to the church, but Paul is telling these believers to be like, Those that are alive. Which shows a differentiation in the believers. Who do you believe these folks to be?

(Romans 6:13) Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin, but yield yourselves unto God as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
---David on 8/17/20


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One of the important reasons I reject Reformed Theology. Is that it teaches GOD does not love everyone. That only loves just a few.
---Samuelbb7 on 8/16/20


David, interestingly I had no idea what Reformed Theology was. My innocence believed that all saved people believed the same thing. My Aunt also went to Bob Jones University and we shared a lot as she too was delivered from the Reformed doctrine. I feel those years the Lord taught me deeper truths out of those lies. The Lord would not give me rest day or night until I searched the scriptures as the Holy Spirit led, to see Gods truth and each time gave me peace beyond all words when I came to the truth. I learned so much, because of what God WROUGHT IN ME, as opposed to just having a head knowledge. God is a jealous God. And believe me, when you eat junk food or poison, He will stick His finger down your throat and make you throw it up.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/20


David, re: sin... All I can say is follow Romans 6-8 very carefully. Believe every word very carefully. The blood of Christ washes away our sin, but it doesn't wash away our old man. Our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life puts away the old man. If we walk in newness of life, God no longer seeing us after the flesh, but in the Spirit, having therefore no condemnation to those who walk after THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, as this LAW is the Law we are now to obey....those alive from the dead.

Because now God sees us IN CHRIST. When God looks at us, HE SEES CHRIST IN US. And the only way one can break the dominion of sin over us is to be A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST.
---kath4453 on 8/16/20


Kathrine
So you were a Reformer. I was wondering why you are so involved in this back and forth with Ven. You Escaped what you discovered to be a false doctrine, and you a simply want to help Ven escape too.

Very admirable!
---David on 8/16/20


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Ven, you just gave yourself away, as that is a major point in Reformed Theology. Something that has been discussed here with Markv and other Calvinists endlessly.

The question has always been presented to Reformed to explain why they say they are born again twice. That also is a major discussion on a major Calvin site. We can't name other sites here on CN.

Again, are you Mormon. Maybe that's where we are conflicting, you claiming to be Reformed Calvinism when you don't really know what they believe. And yes I know what Reformed Theology believes. I worked for a Reformed Ministry and went to a Reformed Church until PRAISE GOD HE SET ME FREE FROM THAT BONDAGE OF LIES.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/20


Kath, nowhere did I say what you wrote down "
Ven, scripture does not teach we are set free from sin first so that one can believe.

Never did I say that. I did not say, one comes before the other. only that those who are brought to life, are set free from the bondage of sin. Being set free means that sin does not rule our lives. We are now free to chose sin or not to sin. Sin is within a man. It never leaves us until the physical body dies. Paul had sin within.
---ven. on 8/15/20


When we are saved, we died with Christ, and died to sin....---kath4453

Kathrine
Why do you believe people, sin, after they have died to sin?
---David on 8/15/20


Ven, scripture does not teach we are set free from sin first so that one can believe. Justification is FIRST, and then we are set free from sin. And if you thoroughly read Roman 6 ..it's only After We receive newness of life by yielding out members that are made alive from the dead, that we are truly set free from the bondage of sin. If you read Romans 6 YIELD is stated over and over AFTER we are saved, where we become servants of righteousness. Romans 8:11-13 shows this truth as well. IF WE THROUGH THE SPIRIT DO MORTIFY the deeds of the flesh. So unless you claim to be completely sinless, you are still in bondage to sin even after you claim to be saved, and can't obey God according to your dictrine.
---kathr445 on 8/15/20


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Ven, where do you get your analogies. We were created after the image of God. If God has free will, so do we. You use philosophy here and not scripture to back up your philosophy. First you have to know WHAT IS A MANS WILL.

You say mans will is his heart...so corrupt ( original gnostic teaching) that he is unable to do what is right. Well, our heart also consistent of our CONSCIENCE, and that did not die At Adams fall. Mans conscience was actually AWAKENED at the fall, as we see Adam and Eve COVERED THEMSELVES. God asked....WHO TOLD YOU TO COVER YOURSELVES? you see...NO ONE DID . Their own conscience did. Now Romans 1-3 show man has a conscience except for those who seared their own conscience. That ven is not inherited.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/20


David, I hear what you are saying, but as I have been trying to point out to so many is that you have to go back to the very first verse in Romans 6, beginning at verse 1.....

When we are saved, we died with Christ, and died to sin, but many have failed to obey our part in obedience to Romans 6-8. We need to walk in the knowledge of that truth. We Need to surrender our members to God as those now alive from the dead. What Paul again reiterates in Romans 12:-12. Those who have not obeyed Romans 6 may have to face their sins one day. Seeing one is set free from sin, their free will to obey God now should not be a problem. :)
---kath4453 on 8/14/20


(Romans 6:18)
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
(Romans 6:20) For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.


If we are free from sin, that makes us a servant of righteousness. And If we are free of righteousness, this makes us a servant of sin.

The term Free will, as it pertains to Christianity, would indicate we can free ourselves from the bondage of sin. Those of you who want to serve God, do you still sin? If you sin, How does your sin serve God?

We are free to choose God, but this does not mean we are free of sin. Sin is a sign, a sign which shows us to whom we belong. Until God removes this bondage, we remain a servant of sin.
---David on 8/14/20


If God who is Sovereign and Almighty, has free will, and He does, because He is Sovereign then man cannot possibly have free will. Both cannot have free will at the same time. All who are lost have a will but their will is in bondage to sin, it is not free. They are in fact, spiritually dead, not half dead, completely dead to the things of God, that is why the lost will never choose Christ on their own. They need to be made free, and brought back to life, and only God can make them free and bring them back to life through the Spirit. They have all fallen under the curse, Galatians 3:10
What is free
---ven. on 8/13/20


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For those who want to discuss this with ven, please be careful not to let philosophy be what you are arguing against. I believe one needs to get to the root of this teaching , and go from there. Also you can watch a few YouTube sessions with Dr Wilson under the titles I provided. God bless Dr Wilson.

This issue has been discussed here often that ends in a huge fight. It's not going to change. Be convinced in your own hearts, and don't apologize for standing in the faith that was once delivered unto the Saints....which is FREE WILL.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/20


The issue is: where did the teaching of no free will come from.
1) it began with the Gnosticism and Stoicism . And no early church fathers taught this until Augustine of Hippo, who came out of different Gnostic teachings. And Calvinism came out of Augustine's teachings.

2) scripture warns us against those false gnostic teachers, re philosophers. Colossians 2:8

3) when you know the truth of this, the truth will set you free

4) you can study this if you want . It's called" Augustine's conversion from traditional free choice to non free free will.. A comprehensive methodology . That's the more comprehensive one. By Kenneth M Wilson. The condensed one is called The Foundation of Augustinian- Calvinism. Only $10.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/20


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