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Saved Before Born

Were all those saved written in the book of life before the foundation of the world?

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 ---ven. on 10/29/20
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John 3:16

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

yes God the Father absolutely chooses those who have chosen to believe in His only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. The Scriptures are absolutely clear on that. Does God pick WHO will believe? No, it is TO AS MANY AS RECEIVE HIM....John 1:1-14.

As Paul clearly show in Romans 10, many Jews did not believe ...and by preachers preaching FAITH COMES BY HEARING, not by respect of persons, many will believe THE GOSPEL...ROMANS 10:9-21. The a GOOD NEWS, THE GOSPEL OF PEACE, GLAD TIDINGS OF GOOD THINGS
---kathr4453 on 12/31/20

.... clearly supported by both the Old and New Testament. So its impossible to argue against.
Who are those mentioned in (Revelation 7:9)?
---David on 12/31/20

Man, no one should tolerate anything but absolute provable truth, clarified by GOD using his spoke persons.
As per warning.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Rev 5:9.....thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us ...... out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation
Note key phrases.. redeemed us, out of.

---Trav on 12/31/20

God chooses....and thats the point we both agree on. Unlike any other belief I have ever heard, yours is clearly supported by both the Old and New Testament. So its impossible to argue against.

You and I simply disagree on who will be saved. You believe (Revelation 7) only refers to Israel and Judah. And I believe the chapter refers to Israel....Judah...and the Gentile.
Simple deduction

10+2=12..., so the number Twelve represents both Israel and Judah..correct?
When Revelation mentions the Twelve tribes who are being sealed, names ALL of the Twelve Tribes...correct?
Since all of the tribes have been accounted for in (Revelation 7: 4-8),

Who are those mentioned in (Revelation 7:9)?
---David on 12/31/20

3. ....the Nth House was divorced......---Trav
---David on 12/26/20

Jer 3:8...... I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce,
Jer 3:16....saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it, neither shall they visit it, .....
Jer 3:18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and ......

Now, being gentiles/(false word) why dwell on any verses Ive posted so far? No one teaches or preaches them... they infuriate more often as seen. Hmmmm.... a tell/mark of itself. Truth is not popular.... but should be?
You appear not to be repelled, therefore Pro 27:19As in water....
---Trav on 12/29/20

3. ....greater part of Israel, the Nth House was divorced... therefore outside......---Trav
So are you saying,
---David on 12/26/20, Im not, Ethnos/nations of put away/ divorced Israel are who is being sought...., by Paul in Romans. Check this out. Hosea/Osee.
Rom 9:25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people, her beloved, which was not beloved.
Rom 9:26 it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there shall they be called the children of the living God
=Hosea 2:19-23
Compare Eze 37:19-22 (the two sticks rejoined), by Heb 8:8....
Paul is educated now, not foolish, he wont go against Prophets, or GOD, ...nor myself.
---Trav on 12/27/20

3. ....remembering that the greater part of Israel, the Nth House was divorced... therefore outside of the commonwealth...---Trav

So are you saying, you believe the circumcised and uncircumcised refer to Israel and Judah? And the word which was changed to Gentiles, is actually referring to Judah?
---David on 12/26/20

1.(Revelation 7:9)...disseverance between Abrahams children and ???
2.(Acts 13:26) Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham you is ...salvation sent.
3. (Romans 4:11-12).....
Israel was circumcised...So who are the Uncircumcised?
---David on 12/24/20
1. Rev 21:12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
2. Answers itself.... by context .
3. ....remembering that the greater part of Israel, the Nth House was divorced... therefore outside of the commonwealth...
---Trav on 12/25/20

GOD chooses.... Trav

I whole heartedly agree. As for multiple witnesses...As in (Revelation 7:9) there are multiple scriptures which show a disseverance between Abrahams children and ???

(Acts 13:26) Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham and....whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

(Romans 4:11-12) And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had, yet being uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are not circumcised,...
Israel was circumcised...So who are the Uncircumcised?
---David on 12/24/20

agree Trav, Most of the New Testament was directed at the twelve tribes.
Who .....makes up the Great multitude?
---David on 12/23/20

Speculation without multiple scriptural witness leads to error ...Ive made a many. GOD chooses who he likes without my input.... or anybody elses.
The Bible was written by Israel to Israel for Israel.
GOD spoke through all Prophets... all of Israel or their fathers. Using words like for ever, everlasting. Read Jer 3:14, for a one of a kind relationship. Heb 8:8-10, for the continuance of the bond.
What All prophets, Christ and Apostles sought... so do I.
Anything else is just not mentioned or approved... therefore ......much easier and approved whether i am or am not Israel.
---Trav on 12/23/20

I agree Trav, Most of the New Testament was directed at the twelve tribes. But of those twelve tribes, according to (Revelation 7:4), only 144,000 of these folks will be saved.

And In (Revelation 7:9) It says, After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and with palms in their hands.

Who do you believe makes up the Great multitude? I believe it will be those we know as gentiles, as foretold in the Lords (Matthew 22) parable, those mentioned in (Matthew 22:8-10).
---David on 12/23/20

....what does that mean to you, that the word Gentile wasnt used during the days of Christ?
---David on 12/14/20

Well briefly, it is a young word, a condensed latin translation. Blurring by its misunderstood usage for so long, and it is extremely hard to unlearn.
It originated from Latin Vulgate translation, with Roman church saying they had become Israel in Scripture.
Paul never used the word...he used ethnos.
Paul sought and wrote only to Israel, as Christs stated he came for.
If one believes Paul then one must accept that Paul would not go against any Prophet or Christ....yet .....
Paul quotes/ references the OT over 260 times.
Yet is rarely acknowledged or taught.
---Trav on 12/22/20

What does Paul mean by predestination?
If you or I seed a garden, we know what fruit each seed will produce,... before we plant it. It is therefore Pre-determined, the fruit our garden will produce.

When the seed produces fruit, in many ways, it is like a birth. Gods seed, his word, works in much the same way when followed to fruition...AKA, being Born of God/Again.
How do we receive Gods seed?
Through the gift of Gods Holy spirit.

What does God means when he says, I knew you in the womb?
Since this is a time after conception/receiving Gods Holy Spirit, yet before we are born of God, this time is the womb which Paul is referring to. (John 3:4-8)
---David on 12/22/20

I agree, let the scripture speak for itself. Two or three what is missing in 99% of all doctrines. Unfortunately when most folks begin to go to church, they go in blind, and follow whatever doctrine that church teaches.

Its a pattern we follow from childhood, being ignorant of everything around us we must naturally be taught by someone. But as we mature, we must put childish things behind us, and seek to find the Truth on our own. Too many folks are content following the teachings of man, like they did when they were children.

(1 Corinthians 13:11) When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child, but when I became a man, I put away childish things
---David on 12/21/20

David, Exposed, ( ha... and good) ....two or three scriptures cause much angst.
I was provoked by some of the Scriptures posted. Provoked to find and compare every scriptural witness possible for any subject of life or religion concerning me. I follow no denom/man woman or preacher.
Utilizing every prophet and Christ scripturally as witness to anything posted. When scripture infuriates the recipient..... Ive not done anything other than they.... with same results.
Mat 5:17Think not I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 18:16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
---Trav on 12/20/20

So just to reiterate here and get back on track, the Bible says FROM the foundation of the world. There is a big difference between the word BEFORE and FROM. One would have to prove there is a typo, or at least find supporting scripture saying "before". I can't seem to find any. We did not preexist with God The Word and the Holy Spirit before the foundation of the world. Angels at sometime did,also being created before man. Job tells us the angels clapped at the time God laid the foundation of the world. We clearly see man was created on the 6th day of creation after the heavens and earth were created. Clearly man's soul and spirit came into existence then, not before
---kathr4453 on 12/20/20


I am requesting that you interact with other bloggers in a non name calling and professional manner or you will not be allowed to post anymore on this site.

If you threaten or name call me because of this warning, you will automatically be blocked.

I hope this warning is very clear.

---Moderator on 12/20/20

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Seeing no apology will be coming from you David, seeing you constantly lie, and seeing you have a touch of paranoia, its best to leave folks like you alone.

You've proved your all talk but no action in confessing sin.

Now lets get back to the original blog question and recognize it was in fact Trav stalking me out of left field on this blog, busting in and attacking me, as anyone who can read here can see, where, as always David loves jumping in the middle and then accuses others of stalking him. David thinks everything is about him. Another sign of not being well.

Soooo, back now to the original subject....what verse says your name was written BEFORE the foundation of the world....anyone?
---kathr4453 on 12/20/20

Why are you still stalking me?
---David on 12/20/20

David you need to make up your mind. Double talk here. You can't in one statement say everything Trav says is scriptural, and then in another say the opposite. That's nuts. But yes YOU can do that, as this is all you do here....try to agree with everyone who smiles at you. And for what purpose? Popularity?

And no Wrong again.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/20

I have found Everything you say is backed with scripture...AKA...the Truth. Strangely, the great majority of Christian doctrines, like Kathrines who claim to follow Jesus, are opposed to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

I do not see your doctrine wrong, only different from mine. The bible clearly teaches in Revelation, the twelve tribes are different from the Gentile believer. Many may discount this fact, but I dont.

Nice try Kathrine, but Larrys post has all the ear marks of your personality. Unfortunately your deception made Samuel take the bait.
---David on 12/20/20

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Suggesting you have Mormon beliefs David is not crazy here. You simply do. One being your promotion of JW and Mormon doctrine defending their understanding of who Jesus is. You have had many opportunities to deny, but refuse to. There are many denominations today who somehow have promoted Mormon beliefs. I never called them did. Please start taking responsibility for your outbursts. And please stop deflecting AGAIN, and take responsibility for your blatant lying and slander. You've accused me of being a liberal baby killer democrat.... TOTALLY UNTRUE,as I'm not for abortion or am I a democrat, and here a bold face lie accusing me of YOUR wrong understanding. I have never said Trav is a REAL JEW, did.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/20

People..People..People, get a hold of reality.
Kathrine has called me all those names, plus a few more over the years. I was merely tagging all these names together as now she believes me to be a Mormon. I was not calling the Mormons those names.

But I can see where you may have thought that. She had also accused me of bring a Sodomite, a JV and a SDA, but thankfully I didnt add them to the list, else you would be saying I called JV and SDA believers sodomites.
---David on 12/19/20

David is a servant of sin and in bondage to sin. One of the first steps to remedy this is to repent. David will not repent and apologize for making false accusations. Until he repent's and makes a public apology, he will continue to be a servant of sin. Blatant sinners and slanders have lost their testimony and people should not believe them while they are willfully in Satans clutches. They will just keep doing it again and again as David has clearly displayed here time and again.

To use every post as a bully pulpit shows David is not here to teach or learn, but to assault the BOC anyway they can, who dont agree with his doctrine of works to earn Gods love and salvation, disguised as some sanctimonious act of righteousness.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/20


Some (like Warren Jeffs) are, but he's from a splinter group. Cults form when one of two things happens:

1) Progressive Revelation - i.e. God can say something, but a later prophet can later change it. This is central to Mormonism. Joseph Smith changed much of Christianity, and later Mormon prophets made more changes whenever they thought it was convenient.

Jehovah's Witnesses constantly rewrite their theology every time one of their end-of-the-world predictions fails. Today, owning some literature from 50 years back is considered "subversive" and can get you disfellowshiped.

2) Rejecting peer accountability. We saw that with Warren Jeffs, Jim Jones, and many modern televangelists.
---StrongAxe on 12/19/20

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I would not call Mormons Psycho. They are deluded by false prophets.

But some can change if approached in love. I have seen it.
---Samuelbb7 on 12/19/20

Actually David if you go back to the beginning of this thread I said Trav is NOT Jewish,and that different strands of Messianic theology 75-. 90 present of those who say they are are actually gentiles.

This has always been a problem with you David, you don't read people's post, and then falsely accused them .
---kathr4453 on 12/19/20

David is correct he doesn't read. That's why he resorts to slander .

////And Trav is not a Jew a literal physical descendents of the 12 tribes of Israel. He claims to be one of the LOST TRIBES, WITH THE FALSE doctrine that Sweden is one of the LOST TRIBES, the USA is another lost tribe, etc. It's a corny doctrine of another cult. Trav saying we've never discussed in the past is a lie. He doesn't like me because I exposed him years ago.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/20
---kat453 on 12/19/20

I ask the questions, because you,...........perspective....
---David on 12/15/20

Ever notice no one ever mentions Israel? Even though it was specific to Christs mission. Matt 10:6/Matt 15:24, Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31-36 land literally thousands of witnessing scriptures.
So.... is it wise to make up fractured ladder doctrines that GOD will not honor? No, it is condemned.

Judah was 1/13th of Israel. We should beware those who integrate them as representing all Israel. Prophets didnt, Christ didnt... the blind and deaf do.
How long is forever? 1Ch 17:22For thy people Israel didst thou make thine own people for ever, and thou, LORD, becamest their God.
I honor that ... whether i am or am not.
---Trav on 12/19/20

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I dont read everything here on CN. Kathrine had stated you were Jewish, so I took her at her word. If everyone made this same mistake, they would think I was a moronically delusional psycho Mormon.
---David on 12/19/20

David, the one glaring difference here is Mormons don't lie. I see no truth to your accusations here. Quite the opposite. Exactly what do you think you gain from posts like this? It only disqualifies you as a helpful poster here. So sick of your childish nonsense posts here. Many read these blogs but don't post. I just felt the call here to call you out on this one. You can do better. Let's see it for once.
---Larry_L on 12/19/20

As witnessed scripture About Israel infuriates some---Trav on 12/18/20

Kathrine had stated you were Jewish, so I took her at her word. If everyone made this same mistake, they would think I was a moronically delusional psycho Mormon.
---David on 12/19/20 it. You appear to be a searcher/asker... thats who finds truth. Pro 12:19The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment.
I work 12 hr days frequently so forgive when i dont answer immediately.
Israel was chosen by GOD as a servant people. It is a mark and sign along with Heb 8:10...(Republican Christians) have the marks. Ha, couldnt let it pass, hope it didnt offend you specifically. Others not so much.
---Trav on 12/19/20

Ive never once stated on CN i was Israel or Jewish. As witnessed scripture About Israel infuriates some---Trav on 12/18/20

I dont read everything here on CN. Kathrine had stated you were Jewish, so I took her at her word. If everyone made this same mistake, they would think I was a moronically delusional psycho Mormon.
---David on 12/19/20

I ask the questions, because you, being Jewish, have a unique perspective....
---David on 12/15/20

Well lets start with:
1. Ive never once stated on CN i was Israel or Jewish. As witnessed scripture About Israel infuriates some
2. Start with Heb 8:8-10 verify with Jer 31:31-33.
3. House of Israel spoken of above is the North house... put away divorced by God. This is the nations ethnos spoken of in the New Testament in most cases.
4. Judah Levi were never divorced or put away.
Discard Latin Vulgate gentile For the original see and hear.... better.
---Trav on 12/18/20

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David, I'm getting tired of your personal insinuations slandering others out of what processes through your mind. You are stating your opinion, not facts. You are wrong in your OPINIONS and need to back off.

You do not have the mind of Christ, nor show you are even saved according to scripture. You may too be a narcissist, thinking more highly of yourself than you should seeking to control others to bend to your will.

Stop trying to control others here Dave. You have a right to state your beliefs, not control others.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/20

David, another suffering from delusions of self importance. I know you had a psychotic break with reality when you claimed you were carried off to paradise. I also know every time I mention Mormonism you get nasty again, a very suspicious behavior that you are Mormon. Joseph Smith also seemed to have a psychotic break with reality claiming to talk to an angel with the name Moroni or something like that touting a NEW gospel. The world is full of folks like yourself.

I hope you get the help you need David, and stop obsessing over me...another sign you are not mentally stable. I'll pray for you.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/20

I have rebuked your doctrine repeatedly, but with love and with the hope you will turn and follow the way of Christ....As you put it..his peace, love, dove mentality. Jesus taught, that you are to love your enemy.

When you rebuke someone out of scorn, you will generally get a scornful reaction from them. This scorn will create a hate in both of you, which by itself is a self testament to ones salvation status.

(1 John 4:20) If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
---David on 12/18/20

Well David that's exactly what Trav started here, throwing not only the first punch but the second and third.

I'm simply here to expose cults and those who teach false doctrine that "exclude" anyone from salvation.

If you want another insight about the false doctrine of the LOST TRIBES, you may want to research Mormonism. Their whole doctrine is based as well on this nonsense.

Other than that David, you do your thing, I'll do mine.

WHOSOEVER WILL, is to ALL MEN EVERYWHERE. Secret societies are of Satan, and reek of Gnosticism. David we are not to glad hand and humor every false doctrine BUT EXPOSE AND REBUKE IT. My obedience is to God, not to your peace love dove mentality.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/20

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David I agree. That's why Trav hateful comments of late should be rebuked.---kathr4453

My comment was not directed at Trav, but to everyone who develops a hatred for someone who simply disagrees with them. Its easy to fall into these traps Satans sets for us, when we are not prepared for them.

Folks need to be aware, that if hatred is causing the division, Satan is behind it. Once he brings you to hate...he will control you like a puppet on a string. Thats why when a conversation goes in that direction, I leave so that Satan cant use me to feed their fire.

Political discussions are the worst. A Completely fruitless endeavor. Anything you say in opposition to anyone, just feeds a bonfire.
---David on 12/17/20

David I agree. That's why Trav hateful comments of late should be rebuked.

Luke 2: 36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: .......

We also see James addressing all 12 tribes of Israel. There are no "lost tribes". We also see Paul states to the Jew First AND ALSO to the Gentile.....regardless of Trav false cult claiming since gentile is not a word , it completely rejects the Gospel preached to anyone not a Jew. His doctrine is also anti-Semitic , and Revelation rebuke Trav teaching...those who claim they are Jews but are not. God Himself calls them a synagogue of Satan. I just agree with God.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/20

1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

Here is another directive FROM GOD WE ARE TO OBEY, not discuss whether we want to obey or not.

To claim God is checking your DNA for Jewish blood and only saving those who have Jewish blood, is not only outrageous but DEMONIC TO THE CORE.

Will God fulfill His promises to the NATION OF ISRAEL ONE DAY, yes....but that has nothing to do with the promise of salvation to ALL MEN EVERYWHERE. ALL NATIONS ,TONGUES AND TRIBES, ...AS Revelation also state.

These "secret societies " is all CULT DOCTRINES.
---kat453 on 12/16/20

Scripture also had divided in two groups...the circumcision and uncircumcision.---kat453

Thats a very good point, and a clear distinction made in both Old and New Testaments which is hard to argue.

Though we may disagree with Trav, a great deal of knowledge can be gained from a disagreement, no matter the subject, as long as we dont become disagreeable.

Jesus said, A house divided against itself can not stand. One of Satans greatest weapons against us, is Hate. For it is hate which binds us, and causes a division. (Mark 3:27) Love unites..Hate divides.

Religion and Politics create the greatest division, because Hate is at the core of the disagreements.
---David on 12/16/20

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Strongaxe, Trav is the very same trav with the very same doctrine that only Jews are saved. His saying we've never discussed is THE LIE.

And Trav is not a Jew a literal physical descendents of the 12 tribes of Israel. He claims to be one of the LOST TRIBES, WITH THE FALSE doctrine that Sweden is one of the LOST TRIBES, the USA is another lost tribe, etc. It's a corny doctrine of another cult. Trav saying we've never discussed in the past is a lie. He doesn't like me because I exposed him years ago.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/20

Scripture also had divided in two groups...the circumcision and uncircumcision. Today there is no respect of persons between the Circumcision and uncircumcision to those who belong to the Lord and has never required the heathens to be circumcised under the New Covenant. Circumcision is that of the heart of the spirit and not in the letter.
---kat453 on 12/15/20


The word "gentile" is a modern English translation for "nations". In Hebrew, that word is "goyim", which is still in use today for anyone who isn't Jewish. In Greek, that word is "'ethnos", from which we get our words "ethnic" and "heathen".

However you translate it, it means people from other nations who haven't had the benefit of God's revelation.


Two people using the same nickname isn't necessarily evidence of deception, especially if it's a common person's name. I used "Mark" when I first joined this site, and changed once I realized someone else was using that name, to avoid confusion.
---StrongAxe on 12/15/20

I ask the questions, because you, being Jewish, have a unique perspective others here on CN do not have. And I would like to know your understanding.
---David on 12/15/20

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Abraham is the father of many families. Ishmael was Abraham's offspring. After Sarah died Abraham married and had 6 more Children. However none of the above are the line of Jacob God named Israel.

Now Rahab was an ITE remember? Not Israel . It doesn't matter what name is given to those not of the 12 tribes. Scripture has used the word Gentile, Greek, Barbarian etc. All referencing those not of the Tribes of Israel.

Scripture also calls these ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH. Paul reiterated this truth in Galatians. The Galatians were not Jews the legalistic Jews tried to put under Jewish law. You have to be pretty stupid not to understand Galatians.....Trav showing his ignorance.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/20

The word gentile never existed in Christs time?---Trav

I agree, Since the word Gentile is not a Greek or Hebrew word, so its hardly a word anyone would have spoken during those times. Where the word came from..who really knows...for we must take mans word for it.

But with that said, what does that mean to you, that the word Gentile wasnt used during the days of Christ? Do you believe only the children of Abraham will be saved?
---David on 12/14/20

David, yes I agree with your statement. Very good perception. God will test our faith, those who have testified to having faith. So saying there are those who believe and continue to sin....well, that's not how God works. If you have placed your faith in Gods promises, He will TEST your faith to show you His faithfulness. Just as He did with Abraham. If you've never had your faith tested, you may want to make sure you are in the faith. That's the evidence you are saved....whether you are a Jew or Greek.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/20

Trav, if you say we have never gone round 1 you are a different Trav a thief who is using another's name. With that admission, I have nothing to say to you but scold you on your dishonestly here. Actually I have nothing more to say to you regardless. I have no respect for you or your beliefs.
---kat453 on 12/13/20

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Trav, .....Just as Romans 11 clearly states....
---kathr4453 on 12/6/20

Very clearly.... Paul is seeking who Christ sought. Me too.
We have never gone 1 round except in your mind. Scriptures witnessing other scriptures, thousands annul your doctrines.
I never post to to you.... but, rather through you to Sheep.
You tread where angels fear to tread, .
Gal 1:9..... If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

1Ti 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils,

For those who are searchers of truth:
The word gentile never existed in Christs time
---Trav on 12/12/20

The important think to take away from the story of Abraham is...God keeps his word..

Why is this important to us?
Because Jesus disclosed, in his (Luke 8: 5-8) parable, in (Luke 8:11), The seed in his parable is ....the word of God, AKA...Gods promise.

When you read the parable with this in mind, and what Kathrine said about God making many promises to Abraham, the parable becomes much clearer and applicable in our own lives.

Abraham trusted God with the very first promise and all the promises which came afterward made his faith in God grow so much...he trusted God with the life of his only Son. You see this Seed parable, plays out in many lives in the Old Testament.
---David on 12/13/20

The seed is Christ. God promised Abraham "and Sarah" a son, being past age, and Abraham believed God, and at that time Abrahams faith was accounted for righteousness. aka imputed righteousness. Romans 4:19-25. Hebrews 11:11. So Abrahams faith was in the promise of the redeemer that would come through Isaac not Ishmael. And from Isaac the promise of the coming redeemer came through Jacob not Esau. From Jacob to the line of Judah. This geanology is listed in the beginning of Matthew and Luke....going all the way back to Adam, where The original promise of the redeemer would come Genesis 3:15. Just more revealed with each dispensation. We live by faith ALWAYS. And God made several promises to was one too.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/20

For me, the greatest act of faith was when Abraham willingly offering up Isaac, as a sacrifice, as God commanded. (Hebrews 11:17)

Why do I see it as the greatest act of Faith?
Its a perfect example of an act of righteousness...Which is an act of obedience, through which Abraham was credited with Righteousness, credited because he had faith in Gods promise.

Why is this act of obedience actually an act of faith?
God told Abraham..., In Isaac shall thy seed be called,
(Hebrews 11:18). You see, Abraham knew if he killed Isaac, God would need to bring Isaac back to life... to keep his word. (Genesis 17)
How could a dead Isaac, be the seed to a father of many nations?
---David on 12/12/20

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Why did Noah find Grace in the eyes of the Lord?
Ans (Genesis 6:9) Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Yes Scripture tells us Noah was a JUST man. Meaning JUSTIFIED. Hebrews 11:7 tell us exactly what Noah did...HE BELIEVED GOD, AND BUILT AN ARK, TO THE SAVING OF HIS FAMILY. As far back as the OT, God has said...THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH. Noah lived by faith....being warned of God OF THINGS NOT SEEN AS YET.


---kathr4453 on 12/11/20

For example...Look at Noah. God did not choose to save Noah and his family before he was born. God chose to save Noah, after he was born.

But why did God choose Noah?(Genesis 6:8).
Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.

Why did Noah find Grace in the eyes of the Lord?
(Genesis 6:9) Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

What does it mean to walk with God, AKA...walking in all righteousness?
(Luke 1:6)......walking blameless in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord.
---David on 12/11/20

Yes, before the creation of the world God knew He would create human beings, a creation just below the Angels, as Hebrews 2 tell us, and that we also read Jesus was also fore-ordained before the foundation of the world to take away sin. So in Gods awesome plan to bring many sons INTO GLORY ( THE KEY HERE) those with a HEAVENLY CALLING, having an eternal p!ace ABOVE THE ANGELS...WHO IS THE CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN HEB 12 FIRSTBORN MEANING HAVING PREEMINENCE...AWESOME.......PLEASE NOTE THE BEGINNING OF ephesians 1:4 begins in verse 3. Also note that verses in the bible dont begin or end with a verse number, nor is any verse a stand alone anymore than a book or letter is the substance of one sentence. Ephesians central theme IS THIS MYSTERY.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/20

(Ephesians 1:4-6) For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.

Again...a foundation is needed to understand the context of this passage. Us In Him and The ones he the key to understanding who he is referring to in this teaching.

From the very beginning, God determined, those whom he loves..Us in Him..will become the Sons of God.
Who does he Love?
The foundational teaching is found in (John 14:21 & 23)
---David on 12/8/20

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1 Corinthians 1:24
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/20

Trav, I do believe those verses, However I believe after THE CHURCH ( made up of both Jew and Greek,....seeing the word gentile offends you) is complete God will turn again to the NATION OF ISRAEL and fulfill those promises. Just as Romans 11 clearly state. So I just disagree with your interpretation, and also don't believe in the new messianic what is being preached today, seeing the majority of those in the messianic churches are over 75% Gentiles claiming to be Jews, and omit the doctrine of the CHURCH.

You and I have gone round and round over this. The CHURCH is a NEW CREATURE, not a NEW JEW. I'd also be very careful with your loose condescending and smug comments lest you love donning an arrogant spirit not of God.
---kathr4453 on 12/6/20

And then of coarse we have Trav spouting his false doctrine AGAIN,....
So again, all false doctrines exclude Paul ......
Try again Travelosity. Ha!
---kathr4453 on 12/3/20

Hmmmm, seems that the posted scripture out of Christ mouth infuriated a false teacheress. Typical of a false Judean.... jewess to her of (course).
First marks of a false doctrine teacher is exclusion of scripture witnessing scripture.
Unlike herself, Paul quotes OT over 260 times... honoring prophets and Christ..... saying, Rom 9:4Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, glory, covenants, giving of the law, service of God, and the promises,
Rom 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, ...
---Trav on 12/6/20

Those who will be saved, are chosen by God, but if God chose us before we are born, what is the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ?

The Bible teaches Jesus died to save us from our sin. How could his death save us, if we were saved before the foundation of the world?

You probably have an answer to both of my questions, and I would honestly like to get your perspective.
---David on 12/6/20

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---JS1234 on 11/30/20


Interesting concept.
---JS1234 on 11/30/20


So what does that mean, practically? If your name was already written there, then it doesn't matter what you do, whether you are good or evil, or whether you believe or not. You will be saved no matter what.

Similarly, if your name was not written there, it doesn't matter what you do, whether you are good or evil, whether you believe or not, you will be damned no matter what.

This Calvinistic thinking inevitably leads to a kind of fatalistic conclusion - that since what we do has no effect on our salvation, why shouldn't just do whatever we please? But the Bible clearly does NOT teach this. It is always telling us to CHOOSE good over evil - because choice MATTERS.
---StrongAxe on 11/30/20

JS1234, that's why scripture never says in that verse, "BEFORE " THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, but says "FROM" THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. So FROM Adam and Eve to today, I will venture to say names are still being added, and when added I bet that's when the Angels in Heaven REJOICE Luke 15:10. If Luke 15:10 is in real time, seeing they rejoice when a sinner REPENTS, that person has to be here and a sinner and has repented. if it's already a done deal, why the big deal?
---kathr4453 on 11/30/20

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If you were not written in the book of life before the foundation of the world, you can't be saved no matter what you do. You are doomed.
---JS1234 on 11/26/20

Here are words and phrases Calvinist's misuse

Chosen...leaving out "CHOSEN IN HIM". Israel also Gods Chosen Elect NATION, is not IN HIM, as no nation is IN HIM, only individuals are.

Predestined.....all verses concerning predestination say we were "predestined to be conformed to His Image". Totally different than just saying predestined. The Nation of Israel, you could say was predestined, yet were never said to be predestined to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF JESUS CHRIST.

All Gods plans and purpose were predestined. Even the NEW Heaven and Earth.

Leaving out the WHOLE SENTENCE and just selecting your favorite buzz words is what all cults do.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/20

Trey, before the foundation of the world God predestined a special company of people called THE CHURCH, see this MYSTERY HIDDEN BUT NOW REVEALED Colossians 1:24-27, Romans be THE CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN, Hebrews 12:23, meaning having preeminence as Joint Heirs with Christ, Romans 8:17, being conformed to His image, Philippians 3 . THE CHURCH has a special calling and place in Gods plan and purpose . We are NOT THE NATION ISRAEL, as They too have a special place and plan .., but in THIS dispensation of time the Church is made up of both Jew and Gentile individuals, ( not nations) making up the Body of Christ. We were Chosen to be IN HIM, not just chosen. You all leave out the IN HIM part, and completely change the context.
---kathr4453 on 11/21/20

Hi Kathr,
Please explain:
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Your statement sounds like you deny that Christ chose us and that you do not believe in predestination. Am I correct?
---trey on 11/20/20

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No scripture states our names were written before the foundation of the world.

Trey, this is what your post sounds like:

Mom made lemonade this morning. She said she made lemonade this morning. What this really means is Mom made lemonade last week.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/20

The scriptures clearly state from the foundation of the world, meaning that the Lambs Book of Life was written from the beginning of the creation of man.
Rev 5:1 states that the book is sealed with seven seals and only Christ can open it so their names are secure.
Rev 13:8 states that Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
So God people's names were written in the book before they were born and in the mind and purpose of God, Christ had died for them and paid the price, so their salvation was secure from the foundation of the world.
Sounds like eternal security of the saints.
---trey on 11/14/20


Sadly, there are so many who call themselves Christians, who feel so strongly about their own personal agendas (whatever they be - whether it's a political party, or some particular point of theology) that they start to actually worship it, and consider anyone who feels differently to be heretics. They are so obsessed that they are willing to throw any and every scripture under the bus (e.g. "Thou shalt not bear false witness") as long as doing so is in alignment with their obsession - choking on gnats while swallowing camels.

There are several on these blogs who foment discord and divide Christ over minor matter of theology, and several who make up vile lies about others.
---StrongAxe on 11/3/20

Yet those burning and stealing and destroying pleases you.
---ven. on 11/2/20

Another lie by Ven.... Don't call yourself a Christian if all you spout are lies.
---NurseRobert on 11/3/20

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The proper way to discuss a subject is to create a blog, have people discuss, then if full and there is more to discuss, create another one. If you have several different topics to discuss, by sure, create multiple blogs. But what is the point of creating three blogs simultaneously to discuss virtually the same thing each time? I.e. all three of the blogs you created seemed to be solely to push the idea of Calvinistic predestination.

The reason Trump does nothing that pleases me is because he's a crook devoid of any respect for law or morality. I wish that were not true, but it is what it is.

"Burning and stealing and destroying" do NOT please me. Stop putting words in my mouth and condemning me for them.
---StrongAxe on 11/2/20

Axe, would it please you more if I posted a new post every other week? It seems nothing pleases you. It the same concerning Trump, nothing he does pleases you. Yet those burning and stealing and destroying pleases you.
---ven. on 11/2/20

Scripture states THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE FROM the foundation of the world.

But it wouldn't surprise me if Calvinist's haven't already redefined the word "FROM" as really meaning "BEFORE".

So is this question asked because ven doesn't know scripture, or because ven wants to rewrite scripture. That's the REAL QUESTION HERE. Who do you believe, GOD OR VEN.

I'll stick with God. Those who KNOW SCRIPTURE don't even ask such STUPID order to start fights. One who does, either isn't saved or needs to REPENT.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/20

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