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Can The Lost Get Saved

Is it possible for a person who is lost to change his own unbelieving heart to a believing heart so that he can believe and make a commitment to Jesus Christ?

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 ---ven. on 10/29/20
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And then of coarse we have Trav spouting his false doctrine AGAIN, no one here has ever bought into. We've been over this numerous times.

But if it makes you feel better Trav, being Jewish, that would include me as someone from Israel. Not you though, as we have been through this before where you gave no proof you are.

And besides, Scripture teaches the Gospel was taken to Gentiles and Jews. So again, all false doctrines exclude Paul and only stick to limited scripture in the 4 Gospels before Jesus death and resurrection.

You are not Ephraim Trav. And there is no DNA test you can take to prove you are.

Try again Travelosity. Ha!
---kathr4453 on 12/3/20

...... and she continues
David on 12/1/20

She obviously has a, spirit of contention, not of a Sheep, Lamb or flock.
She makes multiple opportunity to post Truth, by her false doctrines.
I never post dialogue to this spirit but, rather to those Sheep our Lord said he searched for. Sheep that stray though this site. Goats just bleat and butt heads. No gain.
Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
2Ch 19:2.....Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.
(Just run across this one.... fits times we live in...)
---trav on 12/3/20

John 15, is also very important to understand that the VINE is Jesus, not the Holy Spirit. And the FRUIT is the very attributes of Jesus, being conformed to HIS images hitch includes being conformed to His death. PHILIPPIANS 3 as well as Galatians 5:22-25. Paul also in Galatians 4:19 reiterates those who had fallen from GRACE, he stayed so that "Christ" could be formed in them again. So those who are abiding in the WORD are abiding IN CHRIST, who is made unto us the wisdom and knowledge of Him. Colossians 2:3 ..1 Corinthians 1:30.

So my beliefs are that Jesus Christ , not me, gets the Glory and Honor ...God working in us to will AND TO DO OF HIS GOOD PLEASURE. Hebrews 13:21 reiterate.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/20

.....with scripture and truth.....

And why not. It would appear someone here is doing and saying everything to keep me from continuing. Just that remark alone is a BIG RED FLAG.

My continuation is not addressed to anyone specific. It is addressed to all, who can take it or leave it. It's not me, but the Holy Sprit who will either highlight Truth or not.

The old nature old man no matter what CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF. John 15, Jesus makes this perfectly clear. Abide in me and I IN YOU, AS THE BRANCH CANNOT BEAR FRUIT OF ITSELF...JOHN 15:4.
---kathr4453 on 12/2/20

....and she continues
---David on 12/1/20

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Faith comes by hearing the word of God.

So the sower and the seed, Jesus is the sower, HIS WORD is the seed. So those who have no root in them, would be religious people, without the root of CHRIST IN YOU. Only CHRIST IN YOU is good ground. We are not. Only God is good. Mark 10:18. Also the parable is about bearing fruit. Only those IN CHRIST can bear fruit. Galatians 5:22-25, Romans 6-8.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/20

David, here you go again, making up garbage so you won't have to answer my questions. It's you who is acting juvenile and playing games here.

Just answer the questions and leave your personal feelings out of this discussion

1) your parable on the sower and seed is not what scripture says.

2) you claim you were chosen from the womb and planted on good ground.....yet say you must preform to earn Gods love, and after you've earned His Love, He will love you and save you.

YOUR Beliefs are not mainstream Christianity. Plus your beliefs contradict one another. You are not a TEACHER David. If that offends you, I'm sorry. And to continue to make jabs at me when I've asked you to leave me alone is SICK.
---kathr4453 on 12/1/20

David, Stating what I believe is not adolescent ramblings. You continue to pick and hack when I've asked you to STOP, is called stalking. That is a mental illness, and unrepented SIN.

Before you lecture me or anyone else here David, please examine yourself. I don't believe your MOTIVES are godly, but the opposite. No scripture tells us to bully and badger another under any circumstances. And to then lie and falsely accuse...WHICH YOU HAVE NEVER REPENTED OF, does not make you an example one wishes to follow. You have FAILED in so many ways here, and continue to fail, putting your failures on others. That's what narcissist do David.

For the last time, find another victim to bully. I'm done with you.
---kat453 on 12/1/20

So much nastiness around here.
---JS1234 on 12/1/20

When you allow yourself to get caught up in these adolescent ramblings, its very hard to address any of your questions, for folks must first defend themselves against all your slander and name calling.

Just so you know, I really dont take it personally, for I know you are a servant of sin and as a servant, the insults come from the evil one. If you have a question, and are able to ask it, without all the insults, I will give you the answer you seek.
---David on 12/1/20

David, Do you agree with this statement:?? we are not chosen until we have demonstrated to God our righteousness, our faithfulness, and our commitment.?????

The reason I ask, is because you teach you first have to earn salvation and Gods love by keeping His commandments. Totally opposite to your now saying you are chosen in the womb, that you are the seed scattered on good ground...{NO}! If you are CHOSEN in the womb before you are born, planted on good ground to preform perfectly, WHY ARE YOU THEN TAKING CREDIT FOR YOUR SALVATION.???

Don't you see your own contradictions schizophrenia as far as I'm concerned.

---kathr4453 on 11/30/20

David, you have totally mangled the teaching of the sower and seed, and then expect others to ooooowwww and awwww what a wonderful teacher of this Gospel you insist you are ....and then get all offended when one shows YOU, YOU have misinterpreted scripture. You never address that. I'm stating YOUR INTERPRETATION of scripture is bogus. I've never said Jesus words are bogus or hard to understand. Your self importance and narcissism can't even see this. Some people you have to take with a grain of salt. You make no sense. The Bible however makes perfect sense. No one needs you to interpret it. So stop trying, and just let others have their own personal relationship with the Lord without you HORNING IN ( ha ha no pun intended).
---kat453 on 11/30/20

Not one verse in scripture states anyone is chosen to be born again.---kathr4453 on 11/28/20

You want a verse?
For many are called, but few are chosen. (Matthew 22:14) But that is part of a parable too.

The reason I couldnt give you the answer you desired, is because you have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For you, as you say, those who follow the teachings of Jesus Christ are in a cult.

When you view the Lords salvation teachings in this manner, it is impossible to give you an answer. The Gospel is a primary teaching, and for you to say such a thing, shows just how far off the path you are.
---David on 11/30/20

Cults use the same tactic as David, by trying to sell you nonsense, and when you ask them to show scripture to prove, they will whip out the ol..."OH ITS A MYSTERY" thing and claim they have this understanding of the mysteries and you don't.......RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.

David has gotten really nasty with his comments towards others who want to expose his nonsense. It's also another tactic cults use. Salvation is not a mystery, and never was. The gospel according to the mystery is now that's no mystery either. Colossians 1:24-27 clearly tell us what the mystery is...CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY. It's only a mystery to those who have rejected the deity of Jesus Christ .
---kathr4453 on 11/29/20

Luke 8:11

11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Here we have in Luke chapter 8 READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER PLEASE, reiterating the parable of the sower and the seed. Here it is very CLEAR "the seed" here is the WORD OF GOD, not people in Gods womb, predestined to fall on good ground. YIKES. THATS AWEFUL TEACHING.

David is perhaps the worse teacher not called by God or GIFTED by Jesus Christ , but is actually stealing away the WORD OF GOD.

Then he has the audacity to think he is God and insults Christians here ....unbelievable.

Try another David where I can expose you again. I do know my Bible.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/20

Too funny David. I know you don't understand parables. You think people are seeds that are scattered on the ground. That's not what the parable even says. I suspect you don't understand these mysteries David. You've admitted as much. You don't even understand the gospel according to the mystery. It's no mystery about law keeping.

You may want to keep your insults to yourself lest they come back on you two fold.
---kathr4453 on 11/29/20

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NO doubt.
---JS1234 on 11/29/20

Those who land on the Good ground, in the Lords Parable in (Matthew 13:
3-9), are those whom God chooses when in the womb. The womb represents the soil in which they Grow. Hearing and following the guidance of the Holy Spirt is what makes the soil, Good.
---David on 11/26/20

David thinks he can make up nonsense and pass it off as him understanding Parables. YIKES. THE SEED is the WORD OF GOD not people......Read the whole chapter David, and then read the same parable in the other Gospels. No scripture says we are in the womb of God. THIS IS MORMONISM.
---kat453 on 11/29/20

Not one verse in scripture states anyone is chosen to be born again......---kathr4453

I wouldnt expect you to be able to see one. This is a parable, and only the Lords disciples can understand a parable.

(Matthew 13:10-13) The disciples came to him and asked, Why do you speak to the people in parables? He replied, Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables: Though seeing, they do not see, though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
---David on 11/29/20


In many of your posts, you write, "I read that...". You shouldn't believe everything you read. For everyone on the internet that says something is true, there is also someone else saying exactly the opposite thing is true. If you want to know what the Bible teaches about something, look at what the Bible actually says about it, not what a bunch of random people on the internet say that it says.
---StrongAxe on 11/28/20

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Interesting concept.
---JS1234 on 11/28/20

Not one verse in scripture states anyone is chosen to be born again. Nothing says we were chosen to be saved. And if looking to Jacob and Esau, neither were said to be chosen to be saved or born again. Of the twins, the birthright would be given to Esau, which Esau sold. The other birthright , as there were 2 was for SERVICE not salvation. And Esau and descendents became obsorbed back into Israel the Nation. Just as God chose Isaac over ISHMAEL, again was for service, not salvation. The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
---kathr4453 on 11/28/20


Interesting concept.
---JS1234 on 11/26/20

There are many false teachings, I wish were True.
Why? Because many would be saved, and I am all for that. But according to Jesus, only a few will be saved.

Like all false teachings, There are verses which support Predestination, and they do say we are chosen, chosen before we are born. But these verses are not referring to those chosen, before being born of man, they refer to those being chosen, before being born of God.

Those who land on the Good ground, in the Lords Parable in (Matthew 13:
3-9), are those whom God chooses when in the womb. The womb represents the soil in which they Grow. Hearing and following the guidance of the Holy Spirt is what makes the soil, Good.
---David on 11/26/20

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I read that all the saved people were picked out before the foundation of the world. Everyone else is doomed. Nobody can decide whether he will become a Christian or not. That's all been foreordained.
---JS1234 on 11/25/20

What are these deeds of Faith through which we are saved, These deeds through which we are Credited, as Abraham was?
(Luke 6:32-35)
If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

---David on 11/25/20

Also David, I LOVE THE PATH IM ON AND HAVE BEEN ON FOR OVER 40 YEARS NOW. I wouldnt chance one second of one minute. So please i beg you......stop stalking me.

You have not defended the Deity of Christ, but rather defended the JWs belief about Jesus Christ. You do not support any doctrine concerning Jesus death and resurrection, but rather cherry pick Paul out of context. The Lord taught me to never use 1 verse without supporting scriptures. You dont get Galatians re GRACE VS LAW, but i find the WHOLE LETTER to be the most amazing and revealing on SCRIPTURAL NT GRACE. THE Holy Spirit is my teacher David. You will never be.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/20

Also David, anyone who doesn't understand : justification, sanctification, IMPUTED RIGHTEOUSNESS, the Gospel according to the mystery, just to name a few items should NEVER say they are a teacher. Those are important BASICS you lack understanding. The very foundation we build upon. Therefore your lack of those foundational truths disqualify you from teaching anyone , and you should STOP IMMEDIATELY before someone gets hurt.
---kat453 on 11/23/20

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David , are you a self appointed teacher or were you given this GIFT by Jesus? How do you know ? Please read Ephesians 4 before answering. I have been given a spiritual gift by Jesus Christ immediately after identifying with Him in death and resurrection life. This GIFT is to the BOC to help us GROW UP INTO HIM TO FULL MATURITY, those who are now IN CHRIST, which you seem to say you are not IN CHRIST, or believe how one comes to be IN CHRIST. So according to scripture, it's you, the carnal minded who simply cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

Maybe after exercising my GIFT for over 40 years David, I'm addressing my statements to the more mature IN CHRIST. And it appears here over 875 folks DO understand my posts.
---kathr4453 on 11/23/20

David, those saved by grace through faith can never be led back to a legalistic works salvation of trying to earn your salvation. If that were to happen, I doubt they were saved to begin with, or are simply babies in Christ where the evil one comes along and tries to steal away the Word. I'd be very careful claiming to be a TEACHER, when scripture states they should be few and will receive the greatest of punishment for falsely leading others astray or teaching anything false. I personally find your teaching a hodge pudge of contradictions and confusion taken out of context beyond words . And I don't see anyone here support your doctrine. It's so arrogant to think you are the savior of truth. You object to 9/10ths of scripture posted.
---kat453 on 11/23/20


There is another user on this site who surfaces from time to time, whose name is David followed by four digits (that I can't remember). He is a very outspoken Jehovah's Witness, and tends to be quite antagonistic. I am pretty sure he and David are two different people. I wonder if you might be getting them mixed up?
---StrongAxe on 11/23/20

I am merely a teacher, not a JW or a stalker. A teacher trying to lead folks who are on one of the many wrong paths...back to the one and only path. And believe it or not, that Includes you.

You see me as your adversary, when I see you as a person who has simply been led astray. And though I have little hope of turning you, there are many, though they too may follow a false doctrine, can see the Truth in what I say.

You have been a great help to me over the years, in finding the root of these false doctrines. Pauls teachings about Abraham and Credited Righteousness was very illuminating. Just one more teaching that folks with a false doctrine, dont understand. If I am wrong..give is a comprehensive explanation.
---David on 11/23/20

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David, trey was asking about elect and chosen, not your JW doctrine. Trey also believes in being saved by grace through faith. You must not know Trey, I do. Trey has been on here a long time. Way before your nonsense landed here.

Seeing you are still confused between WORKS AND FAITH, does not mean others are. Only YOU have a problem with my faith. Stop using your confusion to drum up others who are confused by yours. NO ONE HERE HAS AGREED WITH YOURS. STOP STALKING ME.
---kathr4453 on 11/22/20

I am having a hard time following what you believe.---trey on 11/20/20

This is because Kathrines doctrine is not founded on anyones teachings in the bible. She quotes a few verses from Pauls epistles, as support, but I have shown her, by using other things Paul wrote, she is taking his verses out of their intended context.

I believe I have finally discovered the deception, rooted within all false doctrines, thanks to Kathrine, who answered my questions...Truthfully.

The root?
The Gospel of Jesus Christ, is New Covenant we are meant to keep, and many reject it.
He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
(2 Thessalonians 1:8)
---David on 11/22/20

Trey, I believe my post was about the Apostles. Firstly Israel, before any Gentiles were Gods Chosen People. Out of Gods Chosen People Israel, Jesus chose His Apostles, including Paul, chosen by Jesus personally as well.

So when reading much of the 4 Gosples, of which Jesus at that time before His death and resurrection was addressed to Israel. So when reading John 6 for example, that needs to be kept into perspective. Now in John 17 Jesus again shows those God gave Him are the ones who are sent into the world to preach and then includes " those who believe based on their preaching vs 20 the Gospel" re: WHOSOEVER WILL, now including Gentiles, reiterated in Romans 10
---kathr4453 on 11/21/20

Hi Kathr, I apologize but I am having a little bit of a hard time following what you believe. Are you stating that only the Apostles are the chosen, or that only the Jews are the chosen? I'm sorry, but I'm not following your statement as to who you believe the chosen are.

I agree 100% that salvation is of the Jews and that salvation is only through the shed blood of Christ on the cross.
---trey on 11/20/20

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Hi trey, I guess you misunderstood me. The Apostles were all Jews Jesus chose were from Israel. Even after His ascention ..again choosing Paul a Jew, to be an Apostle.

Seeing Cornelius was or say made a ruckus being a Gentile made headline news with Peter and Company tells us THAT WAS a big deal. But then too, Cornelius did not then become an Apostle.
---kathr4453 on 11/18/20

Hi Kathr,

Here are a few scriptures for you to think on:
Matt 15:28 The Lord said she had great faith and she was a gentile.
Matt 8:10 The Lord commends the Centurion for his faith and he is a gentile.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Here we see gentiles that believed the preaching and had been ordained (past tense) to eternal life.
---trey on 11/17/20

I believe those Jesus chose to be His Apostles were those who were already Gods Chosen People from Israel who were the true believers in Israel, as there have always been those OF FAITH in Israel. This I believe is something many Gentiles don't understand, misinterpreting scripture in the 4 Gosples. Jesus never told a Gentile to FOLLOW HIM at that time making him an apostle.

GOD SAVES ONLY THROUGH HIS SON JESUS CHRIST. Those who were Jesus Apostles believed in the promise of the coming redeemer/messiah. Where Jesus revealed to them that HE IS that one and they believed, just as the thief who died next to Jesus believed and called Him LORD.
---kathr4453 on 11/15/20

It is God that saves. Amen?
Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
Without God acting she would not have been saved.
Examples: The Apostle Paul,Acts 9:3
Peter: Luke 5:8 God opens Peter's eyes to his sinfulness.
Gadarene - Legion, Mark 5:6
Notice that none of the apostles ever said, I don't think I will follow Christ. When he said follow me, they followed.

---trey on 11/14/20

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This is the truth of the EVERLASTING COVENANT. This is what David does not believe to his own distruction.

Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 11/13/20

"Yes", in answer to your question. Read John 3:16, where it states, "God so loved the world....) Just replace the word "world" with the name of the person who wants Christ as their personal Savior. That's all that's needed to be a Christian-a personal decision. They should tell someone as a matter of testimony of what they have done and to make sure that they know what the word, "Believe" really means.
---wivv on 11/13/20

Yes, this takes obedience. However we don't earn God's love by yielding to Gods will , it's Gods Love shed abroad in our hearts that enables us to walk in His will. Romans 5.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

And again like a crooked politician, David only posted half my sentence, twisting my words...AGAIN IS SIN. David, being so steeped in sin, tries to put up a smoke screen to his own sin, by making up lies against others. For what I ask? To bring other's back into bondage, because he is in bondage. Again DISOBEYING GODS WORD....Galatians 5:1. So the expert on SIN AND OBEDIENCE is a joke here, and doesn't even know it. Really sad.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

David, you sounding so tormented not feeling secure in Gods love. Just because you don't have that security, doesn't give you the right to undermine anothers security. I know God loves me, and I know I love Him, with all my heart mind and soul.

I'm saved David, I'm secure IN CHRIST, Who IS MY LIFE.

You need to move on David. Your beginning to act and sound like an unhinged Trump who just can't get his own way.

We simply do not share the same understanding of salvation. Move on David. I'm very SECURE in Gods love for me. I'm sad you are not secure in His love for you. I believe it's the difference between GRACE VS LAW. The two just don't mix. Paul reiterates this in Galatians.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

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Yes, this takes obedience. However we don't earn God's love by yielding to Gods will....---kathr4453

Now you seem to think I speak on my own accord, but Here are the words of Jesus Christ. So far you dont seem to believe anything he taught, but I hope you will start soon.

(John 15:10) If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Fathers commands and remain in his love.

Now seriously, if Jesus was expected to keep Gods commandments, just to remain, his Love, dont you think it might just be possible, God expects the same from you?

Dont wait till judgment day to discover the Truth...for then it will be too late.
---David on 11/12/20

Gal 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? { to obey also means obeying the truth}

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


Yes, this takes obedience. However we don't earn God's love by yielding to Gods will , it's Gods Love shed abroad in our hearts that enables us to walk in His will. Romans 5.
---kathr4453 on 11/12/20

When you Love God you should feel remorseful when you sin against him. Paul called this Godly Sorrow..the true definition of the word Repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10). This is what was wrong with the Old Covenant...It did not change the heart of the sinner.(Hebrews 10)///

Under the NEW COVENANT, the only hearts that are changed are those who have put their faith in Jesus death and resurrection life. Those who are already SAVED. Even during the preaching of John the Baptist many repented without the indwelling Holy Spirit . The Holy Spirit is who baptized us into Jesus death and raises us up together with Him a new creature WITH A CHANGED HEART.

Also we see many in the OT showing Godly sorrow....DAVID for one. Moses another.
---kathr4453 on 11/11/20

People need to understand, its not just the obedience which causes God to Love us, its the motivation, behind our obedience. When we keep the Lords commandments....Because we love him...Then, God the Father, will love us. (John 14:21)

When you Love God you should feel remorseful when you sin against him. Paul called this Godly Sorrow..the true definition of the word Repentance (2 Corinthians 7:10). This is what was wrong with the Old Covenant...It did not change the heart of the sinner.(Hebrews 10)

(Luke 5:32) I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Romans 10:16) I will put my Laws...Into Their Hearts.
---David on 11/11/20

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Why must we have a relationship with God?
Because God decides who he will save.
(Romans 9:16) It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on Gods mercy.

David contradicts this verse. If its Gods choice, NOTHING David can do will make any difference. Jacob and Esau didnt have a relationship with God when God chose Jacob to inherit the blessing and birthright to fulfill the promises given to Abraham re land, re the birth of the nation of Israel, re the promised messiah, before he took his first breath...having done neither good or evil. Jacob was renamed ISRAEL. And because ISRAEL THE NATION will always be Gods chosen NATION , in spite of their sin.....again see Ezekiel 36 will come to pass.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/20

Isn't this "salvation by works"? ..StrongAxe

Obedience only enables us to have a relationship with God, it does not to save us.
Why is obedience necessary to have a relationship with God?
Because our iniquities separate us from him.
(Isaiah 59:2) But your iniquities have separated you from your God, your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.

Why must we have a relationship with God?
Because God decides who he will save.
(Romans 9:16) It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on Gods mercy.

Without the acceptable sacrifice of Jesus Christ, and the confession of sin, this relationship would be impossible.
---David on 11/10/20

I believe scripture is clear that God loves the sinner but hates sin. For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son ..that WHOSOEVER believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

I believe Jesus died for EVERY SINNER ...while we were yet sinners....and has offered us sinners the GIFT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ALONE...ROMANS 5 more than make this clear.

I can't imaging sharing the Gospel with any sinner that doesn't make clear that GODS LOVE GIFT TO SINNERS IS HIS SON JESUS CHRIST.

But we know a GIFT is offered, not forced on anyone. And one can refuse a gift.
---kathr4453 on 11/10/20

There are two views of how people are saved. Calvinism which GOD chooses some for life and the rest for eternal torture.

On the other hand my understanding is the Holy Spirit comes to all. But not all choose to let the Holy Spirit change them from sinner to Saint.

I cannot agree with GOD not loving everyone. But that he hates most of the people he has created. So I cannot support Calvinism. I support Arminianism.
---Samuelbb7 on 11/9/20

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Isn't this "salvation by works" though? Just how closely must we follow God's commandments in order to "merit" his life?

Paul says that salvation is by faith, lest anyone should boast. Today (and throughout the ages) we have seen many who proudly proclaim "*I*'m more holy than *YOU*".

He also said that if we offend in even one point of the law, we are guilty of it all, Jesus died to save us from that vicious circle of trying to obey so many commandments that nobody but he could possibly obey all of them.
---StrongAxe on 11/9/20

Wasn't Paul already keeping those, and considered himself blameless? Yet on his way to murdering Christians Jesus did reveal Himself to Paul IN HIS SIN OF MURDER, Jesus threw Paul off his horse , blinded him and said PAUL PAUL WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME?

The preaching of the Gospel REVEALS JESUS CHRIST.

We see Romans 10, many were zealous for keeping the commandments, but stumbled over Jesus.

The NEW COVENANT fortold in Ezekiel 36 that came into effect AFTER JESUS RISE FROM THE DEAD...never once says IF YOU WILL THEN I WILL. Every verse in Ezekiel is I WILL....I WILL..I WLLL.

---kathr4453 on 11/9/20

Yes, go back and see Davids posts stating how one can EARN Gods love, and if we earn it then God will born again you as a reward.---kathr4453

.....Which is exactly what Jesus taught.

In the verse below, according to the only begotten Son of God, who does God love? It is those who love him.
21Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them. (John 14:21)

And who does Jesus say are the ones who love him? It is Those who keep his commandments.
According to Kathrine...this is not true...She believes, like the many, not the few, that God the Father loves everyone. False!!
---David on 11/9/20

This is where David and I part ways. God made PAUL A MINISTER, not David. God gave PAUL the revelation of the Gospel according to the mystery Romans 16:25-27.....not David. David had rejected these truths, and is without excuse no matter how good he thinks he is. David has no HOPE OF GLORY.

Colossians 1:25-27

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God,

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
---kathr4453 on 11/9/20

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David, it is God who works in you to will and do of His good pleasure. So we work out what God is working in, but again that is addressed to those already saved. Those who continue..are those who are saved. Many have begun with us, but have not continued, as Paul states were never really saved to begin with.

Look David, again your attitude of thinking you are God schooling me is also beyond arrogant. YOU DAVID are not God, you are not the WORD Of GOD, nor are you the Holy Spirit my teacher.

You simply have believed in a a bogus religion leaving out Jesus Christ who IS MY LIFE. You don't know what that is or what it means.

I wholeheartedly reject your teaching.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/20

No actually it's David who seems to think Gods Love is equated to David's understanding of love. Yes, go back and see Davids posts stating how one can EARN Gods love, and if we earn it then God will born again you as a reward.

We often compare human love to Gods love, as David has done, ....where they were raised on conditional love. This is sad.

God loved us while we were yet sinners, and David just doesn't get that.


This is what David has omitted to his own destruction.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/20

David wants to EARN salvation and his born again experience. But scripture does not teach this.---kathr4453

At least not the scripture Kathrine has read. Fortunately I am here to educate her.

Therefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
(Philippians 2:12)

God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:6-7)
---David on 11/8/20


Didn't you, yourself, write: So blind...she doesnt realize that in mocking me, she mocks God. Isnt this exactly what God wanted his people to do in the Old Testament? ....And in the New Testament?

Or is there something further down that I missed?

Also, if you read what I wrote carefully, you will see that my comment was aimed purely at the attitude, not at you. :)
---StrongAxe on 11/8/20

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Though I did enjoy most of the Harry Potter series, I am not a follower. I believe the last few were a bit too much for children to be watching, but as an adult, I enjoyed all of them. What an imagination!!

You may not have noticed, but it was Kathrine who compared me to God in the previous post. I was not comparing myself to God, I was merely pointing it out she had compared me to God.

In the future, when you jump into a discussion, please read the entire exchange before you comment.
---David on 11/8/20

Colossians 1:14In whom (THAT IS ..IN CHRIST) we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Colossians 2:13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

David wants to EARN salvation and his born again experience. But scripture does not teach this. Our old man will ALWAYS SIN. And we can drag that old sin man to confess night and day to no avail. The NEW MAN IN CHRIST has been delivered from the power of sin...or actually delivered from our old man...who cannot stop sinning no matter what.

If you walk in the Spirit...AKA THE NEW CREATURE, you will not give way to the FLESH AKA THE OLD MAN which is sin.
---kathr4453 on 11/8/20


Saying "When you mock me, you mock God", is close to raising oneself to the same level of God" -the sin that got Lucifer cast out of heaven.

A chilling line from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:
Dolores Umbridge: I am sorry, dear, but to question my practices is to question the Ministry, and by extension, the Minister himself. I am a tolerant woman, but the one thing I will not stand for is disloyalty.

I.e. questioning a person's methods is raised to questioning their superior (who did not order those methods), and thus made tantamount to disloyalty/treason/blasphemy. E.g. Many evangelical preachers/"prophets" make this mistake, say voting against Trump is blasphemy.
---StrongAxe on 11/7/20

He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sin because of what JESUS DID. LETS NOT FORGET THIS, EVEN IN THE OT, the shedding of the blood of bulls and goats covered sin. But Jesus shed blood more than covers. THIS IS WHY He is faithful and just to forgive. But again, there is no power of delivering one from the power of sin in their members, except our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. If confession resulted in deliverance, every single catholic would be sinless simply by confessing over and over. That is not the case.
---kathr4453 on 11/7/20

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I have to wonder if David has children who's security and love is conditional, based on them always having to confess to David what horrible little sinners they are night and day, in order to have a standing with David.---kathr4453

So blind...she doesnt realize that in mocking me, she mocks God.
Isnt this exactly what God wanted his people to do in the Old Testament? ....And in the New Testament?

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1 John 1:9)

From the book of wisdom:
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper, but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.
(Proverbs 28:13)
---David on 11/7/20

I have to wonder if David has children who's security and love is conditional, based on them always having to confess to David what horrible little sinners they are night and day, in order to have a standing with David.

Folks, our Heavenly Father does not act that way, because Gods love for those who are His, those Born of God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST ALONE , have Gods unconditional love as Romans 8 clearly state...NOTHING CAN SEPATATE US FROM THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS. Also believe Romans 8:1.

David does not have nor can witness to Gods unconditional love because David is not IN CHRIST JESUS. It's very simple. David is trying to climb over another way.
---kathr4453 on 11/6/20


David continues to say ...or rather omit the fact that our relationship with God the Father comes only THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. He simply cannot see that our standing before God the Father is our being IN CHRIST. GOD THE FATHER sees CHRIST IN YOU, and when He does, He sees the Righteousness of CHRIST IN US. We have no righteousness of our own. All have fallen short of the Glory of God. ...except I guess David.

SO Why does David keep leaving out Jesus Christ? Because David preaches a false gospel ...
---kathr4453 on 11/5/20

We are born loving the world more than we love God, for we do not yet know God. But through a relationship with God, which must be maintained through confession of sin (1 John 1), we end up loving God, more than the world.

This is what Paul was referring to in his marriage analogy in (Romans 7: 2-4).
What causes adultery?
It is when we love someone, more than the one we are married to. When our love for someone becomes greater than the one we are married to, we commit adultery.
When do we get a divorce?
When our love for the one we were married to, dies.

When our love for God is greater than our Love for the world, our love for sin dies, and this is what causes us to be born again.
---David on 11/5/20

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No scripture says sin dies. Sin does not die. Sin is not a germ, bacteria, it has no life .....and David has been shown this before, yet refuses to believe. WE DIE TO SIN. WE DIE. we died with Christ....those who's faith is in Christ.

Also we are not saved by an experience. Paul experienced one being UNDER THE LAW, as Paul,was, as David was not, where Romans 7 right from the beginning of the chapter is addressed to JEWS UNDER THE LAW. it's actually reiterating Romans 6, but something JEWS understand. THEY ARE TOLD THEY MUST DIE TO THE LAW, in order to bring forth FRUIT UNTO GOD. The Law never brought forth FRUIT. THE LAW is NOT OF FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/20

You have a sin in your life, one which has been there since you received Gods Holy Spirit. Every time you commit this sin, you know God will punish you. Have you ever wondered why God punishes you for this one sin?

This is the sin, the commandment, Paul writes about in (Romans 7), his experience when he died to sin. During this relationship with God, your experience will mirror Pauls....and is written in (Romans 7:7-25).

You see, when you are not in Gods light, you feel no sorrow over sin, but when you are in the light of God, he will bring you to repentance. And when God brings you to repentance, sin will die.
---David on 11/4/20

What verse says a confession of sin puts you in the light of God? There are many who go to a Catholic priest and confess their sin, and go right back out and sin. So confessing your sin does nothing EXCEPT YOU FIRST place your faith in Jesus death and resurrection where our sin is washed away. David again leaves out Jesus blood. David preaches a false Gospel. Jesus said. I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD.
---kathr453 on 11/3/20

How does obedience to the commands of God translate into faith?

When you are in the light of God, and again, a simple confession of sin will put you in that light, you will be in a relationship with God. God will react to both your obedience and disobedience.

Disobedience will bring punishment and guilt. Obedience brings Joy and Blessings. You will soon realize this is not an imaged relationship, but a real, living relationship. And it is through this relationship, that you will come to believe in God, and will come to love him as your Father.

Once you love him, you will want to please him. And when you love God, knowing that God hates sin, you will hate sin too, because sin does not please him.
---David on 11/3/20

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///Faith does come by hearing the word of God, Only that word must come from God. We get his word from the Holy Spirit.////

HIS WORD comes from scripture enlightened and empowered by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus Christ who points to the Father. The Holy Spirit does not speak His own words not found in the Word of God. And God does not bypass THE WORD OF GOD, and have the Holy Spirit tell you things not in scripture. This is how the Mormon Faith CULT begin, among others. Ephesians 2:14-22. Only THROUGH CHRIST do we have access by ONE SPIRIT to the Father. All three work together ALWAYS.

Also no scripture is of private interpretation, as some do here to their own distruction. Scripture teaches scripture.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/20

Faith does come by hearing the word of God, Only that word must come from God. We get his word from the Holy Spirit.

What is the word of God?
Through Gods Holy Spirit, we are given his commandments. These commandments are given as commands of omission and commission.

Omission means God will tell you what not to do...Acts of unrighteousness. Commission means commands which tell you what to do...Acts of righteousness.

If you obey both, you will be remain under Gods Grace. Not so easy though, for those who have not yet died to sin. For those folks, when they sin, they need to confess their sins, before God, else they will lose the light which will show them the way.
More in my next post.
---David on 11/2/20

Let's also be clear folks, SALVATION IS NOT MAKING A COMMITTMENT TO JESUS CHRIST. Herein may be the problem with ven's thinking false belief system.

One's total surrender of ones life unto God, Romans 12:1-2 is addressed to those already saved. So one FIRST must hear the Gospel of salvation, by faith placing their faith in Gods promise that Jesus died for your sin, and was raised again for your justification, ...that once that happens we see in Romans 6, ITS THE NEW CREATURE RAISED UP TOGETHER WITH CHRIST ..AFTER ONE IS JUSTIFIED, that they yield their members as ones alive from the dead unto God. In that EXACT ORDER.

Religion would do the opposite...but Christianity is not a religion, but a person. Know the difference.
---kathr4453 on 10/31/20

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