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Does DNA Prove Creationism

I find DNA to be a fascinating study. But the findings, as to the origins of life, give evidence to the creationist and the evolutionist. Does the fact we share DNA with both plants and animals, give more evidence to the Creationist or to the evolutionist?

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 ---David on 2/18/21
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As David obsesses over an issue he can't prove, I would have to ask this....why did God create Eve? Adam could have taken a wife from those other people if incest was a problem. Also God clearly would have said....BECAUSE INCEST IS A SIN, YOU MUST MARRY FROM THESE OTHER PEOPLE.

No one today can marry their half sister. And many states forbid marrying first cousins. ITS INCEST. yet Abraham married his half sister, God NEVER rebuked him over, and Isaac married his first cousin. Hawaiian royalty married their brother or sister. someone in Corinthians married his father's widow. So these customs started somewhere. But it was TO ISRAEL under the law that first stated it was a sin. not before.
---kathr4453 on 3/10/21


David:

The Bible rarely mentions women unless specifically vital to the plot. E.g. in genealogies, fathers are always mentioned, while mothers almost never are, except a few specific cases (e.g. Eve, Ruth, Bathsheba, Elizabeth, Mary). Jacob had 12 sons. No daughters are mentioned except Dinah (abduction caused a major incident). A few other wives are mentioned but not named (Cain's, Noah's, and his three sons'). In genealogies (including Genesis 5:4) daughters are mentioned but almost never named.

Genesis 5:4 does NOT say "Adam had children 800 years after Seth". it says "Adam's DAYS after Seth were 800 years. And he had sons and daughters". I.e. Adam died at age 930, and between 130-930 had several children.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/21


I think I understand what the problem is. David needs to read all of Genesis 5. Adam had Seth when he was 130, and lived another 800 years after Seth was born. So as scripture clearly says Adam lived 930 years total. 930 minus 130 equals 800. And if you continue to read the pattern in which it is written, all these males from Adam to Seth etc God gives us how many years they lived. And the way it's stated does not say they begot children AFTER they died. The deeper problem is bringing this to David's attention ...he ignores and keeps on with insisting you agree with his half hearted reading.

It's important to read thoroughly. Maybe this is the problem we've had all along, Not paying attention to detail. I see this clearly now.
---kath453 on 3/10/21


David:

1) Adam was 130 when he begat Seth. 2) AFTER that, his days numbered 800 years. His entire lifespan was 930 years (130+800). Basic math.

"He lived 800 years AND begat sons and daughters". These happened at the same time. It does not say "He lived 800 years AND THEN begat sons and daughters".

Look at how "and" is used any other time. "I ate bacon and THEN eggs" means I ate the eggs after the bacon. "I ate bacon and eggs" means I ate them at the same time.

Show any Christian group (that is not a cult) that believes there were other humans not descended from Adam.
---StrongAxe on 3/11/21


(Genesis 5:4) And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years.....and he begot sons and daughters.

StrongAxe
The Bible says Adam had Seth when he was 130 years old. No other age related material is given, until Adam was 800 years old. Why would the bible need to inform the reader, Adam was 800 years old? The only reason I see, is to tell the reader Adam didnt have anymore children.... until after he was 800 years Old.

And why was there a need to tell us this?
So folks would know Seths wife did not come from Adam and Eve...so we would know God did not bring the sin of incest into the world. With all that I have shown you...Why do you and Kathrine choose to believe this about God?
---David on 3/10/21




David, it's interesting that over the years folks have shown you scripture after scripture you act like you don't see or acknowledge. As Genesis 5 CLEARLY STATE , There are no OTHER men God created.

You nor I nor anyone know for a fact what Genesis 6 is about. There are different THEORIES. I DONT DEAL IN THEORIES. I don't try to MAKE things fit that I can't prove.

I have proved God only created ADAM as man. ADAM means MAN. The last man Adam is Jesus Christ. The FIRST AND ONLY is Adam. Eve is the mother OF ALL LIVING.
---kathr4453 on 3/10/21


If DNA can trace back this far, then DNA of another Creation of man not created from the dust of the earth would be evident as well.---kath453

Kathrine
Though your information is interesting, it could also prove they were genetically the same, as Adam and Eve.... If Adams sons took the daughters of men as their wives as the bible says.

(Genesis 6:1-2) And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.

Knowing what we know about God, these Sons of God can not be Angels..so who are they, if not Adams descendants?
---David on 3/10/21


Acts 17:24-27

24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands,

25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things,

26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation,

HERE IS AGAIN SUPPORTING SCRIPTURE that David has scoffed at in the past . ALL TRUTHS COME IN 2s and 3's. Genesis 5 and Acts 17 clearly support Genesis 1-2 are the SAME CREATION OF ADAM AND EVE.
---kathr4453 on 3/9/21


David:

It doesn't say Seth was his next child, just his next son. If you look at the entire Old Testament, women are rarely mentioned unless they are actually an important part of the story. It mentions Adam's sons, but not his daughters (and there HAD to be some). It mentions Israel's 12 sons, but no daughters - EXCEPT one that was raped (because she was an important part of the story). Descent is always mentioned through the fathers, never through the mothers (EXCEPT when they are important, e.g. Ruth, Bathsheba).
---StrongAxe on 3/8/21


Genesis 46:15 These be the sons of Leah, which she bare unto Jacob in Padanaram, with his daughter Dinah: all the souls of his sons and his daughters were thirty and three.

out of Jacobs 12 sons, he had 21 daughters. We only know about Dinah because of a story surrounding her. Daughters for the most part were not mentioned except if there was a story surrounding them, like Tamar.

So we have no idea how many daughters Adam and Eve had.
---kathr4453 on 3/8/21




Seeing this question is about DNA , if your going to take DNA seriously then you must take this seriously:

Genesis only mention 3 sons of Adam and Eve's children: Cain, Abel and Seth. But geneticists, by tracing the DNA patterns found in people throughout the world, have now identified lineages descended from 10 sons of a genetic Adam and 18 daughters of Eve.

If DNA can trace back this far, then DNA of another Creation of man not created from the dust of the earth would be evident as well. No such evidence.
---kath453 on 3/8/21


Incest was forbidden in Deutronomy, but not before that time.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/21


StrongAxe
Adam was 130 years old when he had Seth. Seth was 105 when his son Enosh was born. This would mean Adam was 235 years old when Enosh was born.

The problem with this belief, the belief Seth took a sister as his wife,..is this.
The Bible says Adams next child...after Seth, was not born until Adam was 800 years old. So for Seth to have children when Adam was 235 years old, Seth was having children with Eve...his mother.

And since Enosh had children when Adam was 325 years old, he was also having children with Eve...his Grandmother. And you folks call my story a theory? Too funny.
---David on 3/8/21


David:

What God considers acceptable or not varies from one dispensation to another. For example, between Adam and Noah, man was permitted to eat all plants. After Noah (but not before), clean animals were also allowed. In the New Testament, this was also expanded to include unclean animals (like pigs). Moses permitted divorce and remarriage, but Jesus forbade it. God considered genocide a suitable punishment before Noah, but not after.

Incest was forbidden in Deutronomy, but not before that time. It would have been difficult for man to reproduce without it, as there were no other humans to mate with. It's only necessary to postulate alternate origins for other humans if one doesn't realize this.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/21


I think we are all getting off track here. It's not a matter of capital vs lower case, but the CONTENT of what I said. Since we have 4 different sons of God, ADAM, ISRAEL, THOSE BORN AGAIN TODAY, AND ANGELS, and those who KNOW the scriptures are able to discern between all of them. 1) Jesus is not an Angel, 2) men are not angels, 3) Israel was not angels, 4) men are not GODS, etc etc, angels are not men etc etc,

Also those who knew the books inspired by the Holy Spirit , putting the Bible together also knew not to add certain books .... So YES, they knew exactly what they were doing.

I'm not going to argue about it, as it seems a gnat got stuck in some throats here.

The QUESTION ABOVE is about evolution vs creation.
---kathr4453 on 3/7/21


David, the jury is still out as to who the sons of God are in Genesis 6. Your's is THEORY, not FACT. Adam was called a son of God,, but I don't see Seth called that. So please find human's called sons of God ...plural, in supporting scripture. Maybe because Seth's father was Adam, but Adams father so to speak was God. Israel again, God calling them His son,( singular) because God set them apart from all others.

The sons of God in Job are not descendents of Adam. They were fallen angels. The descends of Adam did not approach God in Jobs life to accuse God of favoritism etc.

I simply stated that I disagreed with your assessment that Adam BECAME a son of God after he sinned. No scripture supports that EVER.
---kathr4453 on 3/7/21


(Deuteronomy 27:22)
Cursed be he that lieth with his sister, the daughter of his father or the daughter of his mother.


Kathrine
As you can see, God sees incest as a sin. Do you still believe God brought this sin into the world?

As a matter of fact, incest is one one of the behaviors which caused God to flood the earth.
(Leviticus 18:30) Therefore shall ye keep Mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the Lord your God.

If you read (Leviticus 18) you will discover God called incest an abomination.
---David on 3/7/21


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kathr4453:

The distinction between capital and small letters is a fairly recent invention. It didn't exist in any of the languages that the Bible was written in. Translators just choose which one to use based on their own opinions. How did the translators "know what they were doing"? They were just reading their own theological opinions and biases into the text. One might rely on scripture as infallible, but it's dangerous to elevate the opinions of translators to the same level.

I do agree with you that the phrase "son of God" has had different meanings in different places.
---StrongAxe on 3/7/21


Psalms 82:6 - I have said, Ye are gods, all of you are children of the most high.

( People call. gods or children of most high are people of, importance, esteem - )

( Daughters of men : sinful - ungodly )

( sons of god is in KJB - and the Gideons bible I have in front of me )
---RichardC on 3/7/21


Kathrine
I am curious to here where you think Cains wife come from?
---David on 3/6/21

You will notice over time that you can never get a straight answer from these two, only diversion.
Their doctrines are created apart from GODs, never reference prophets as witnesses. They cant. They may never see or have been meant too.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

They search not truth and learn less.
Eze 37:28 the gentile shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 3/7/21


StrongAxe
Thank you, my Bible says the same as yours. I didnt know how to answer her when she said that, but with all the different translations, I had no clue as to the translation she may have been reading from.

The Bible lists the descendants of Adam in (Genesis 5), and then as I see it, introduces them into the story as the sons of God in (Genesis 6:4). If those born of Jesus Christ are called the sons of God, for me, the obvious conclusion is those born of Adam, must also be called the sons of God.

Kathrine
What Bible translation are you reading from? Does it mention the sons of God in (Genesis 6:4)? If it does, Who do you see as the sons of God?
---David on 3/7/21


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Strongaxe, I said when we see a Capital S, it refers to Jesus Christ. Even angels OT are referred to as sons of God. Yes, they did not use Capitals and lower case, but the translators knew what they were doing.

Since Jesus was NOT CREATED like Adam , we as Adams offspring are not little Gods, was my point. In Adam all die. GOD DOESN'T DIE, ANGELS DON'T DIE. JESUS WHO IS GOD DIED IN THE FLESH.

But ONLY THROUGH JESUS CHRIST can we "become" sons of God. Something must have happened if we are not still automatically the sons of God from the beginning of Adam said to be a son of God. Adam's Sin maybe? The first Adam was fleshly earthly... The Last Adam Spiritual.
***** 1 Cor 15:45-58*****
---kathr4453 on 3/7/21


...When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Good and Evil, and then knew Good from Evil, they became...like God (Genesis 3:22). And this is why they are called The Sons of God.
---David on 3/5/21

Also Strongaxe, my comment was in reference to Davids comment here. No scripture backs up that Adam and Eve were called Sons of God only because they ate the fruit. Adam was a son of God the moment God created him. God even called Israel His son. Exodus 4:22-23...God calls Israel His first born son. But wait, ....that seems a contradiction doesn't it?

Back to Davids comment....it appeared to me David thought Adams sin elevated Adam to a higher place. That contradicts ONLY JESUS CAN ELEVATE US TO A HIGHER PLACE.
---kath453 on 3/7/21


The Original Bible Writings there were no upper or lower case letters, The Hebrew - Aramaic - Phoenian, Origins
---RichardC on 3/6/21


kathr4453:

"Son of God" was used before Jesus:

Genesis 6:2: That the **sons of God** saw the daughters of men

6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the **sons of God** came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Jesus' genealogy: Luke 3:38:
Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, **which was the son of God.**

Here, Adam is described as a son of God.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/21


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David, I showed through Genesis 5 that it consolidated both Gen 1 and 2 as one event of God creating Adam and Eve after the image of God, male and female. There are not two different creations of man as you seem to think. Scripture has revealed that fact. Beyond that, as Eve taken from Adams very body would be the ultimate of incest. So I have no problem with incest at that time. Abraham married his half sister. Lots daughters believed they were the last living on earth and did what they thought necessary. Ruth being a descendent of that incest is in Jesus geanology.
All that was before the Law of Moses, where in the Law God put an end to such times.
---kathr4453 on 3/6/21


Kathrine
I am curious to here where you think Cains wife come from?
If you dont believe what I said, you must believe it was through incest, or some other means. Can you elaborate?
---David on 3/6/21


...When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Good and Evil, and then knew Good from Evil, they became...like God (Genesis 3:22). And this is why they are called The Sons of God.
---David on 3/5/21

Sorry David, that is not what scripture teaches. Only Jesus Christ is a SON OF GOD.....SON STARTING WITH A CAPITAL S. And only Adam was said to be a son of God. Lower case s. And TODAY if one receives Jesus Christ they have the power to BECOME a son of God. Lower case s.

Luke 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

John 1: 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name.
---kathr4453 on 3/6/21


Genesis 5 reiterate and consolidate Genesis 1 and 2. it's ADAM created after the image of God. The male and female of Chapter 1 clearly states here is ADAM...CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM.

Genesis 5:1-2 This is the book of the generations of Adam.In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him, 2 Male and female created he them, and blessed them, AND CALLED THEIR NAME ADAM, in the day when they were created.

So David, it's time to end this nonsense. Scripture has proved your THEORY WRONG.

Seth's line that married into Cain's line became corrupted. However Noah's branch did not.
---kath453 on 3/6/21


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And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagining of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord repented that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created...
(Genesis 6:5-7)

StrongAxe
God is Good, and our wickedness causes God to grieve in his heart. And it looks like after all those generations of man...God simply had enough of their wickedness. God is going to do it again...real soon...for the same reason.

There are many people today who dont believe in God, who do not abide by his commandments under the New Covenant. Will they be saved because of their ignorance?
---David on 3/5/21


David:

You're still missing my point. If there were other humans who weren't descended from Adam, those humans DIDN'T SIN because they didn't disobey God's commandment. So why were they wicked? Why would God want to destroy them?

If there was some OTHER reason why these hypothetical other people became wicked, other than sin, that would be taking this weird theory even further off the rails than it already is.
---StrongAxe on 3/5/21


WHO DID SETH MARRY?---kathr

Kathrine
Seth married a descendant from those who were created in (Genesis 1).
Notice(Genesis 6:1 & 2)
And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth and daughters were born unto them, that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were fair, and they took for themselves wives of all whom they chose.


The folks created in (Genesis 1) did not have a tree of Good and Evil. When Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of Good and Evil, and then knew Good from Evil, they became...like God (Genesis 3:22). And this is why they are called The Sons of God.
---David on 3/5/21


Trav:
God didn't just CHOOSE Adam, he CREATED Adam.
God only made a covenant with Israel, but he created ALL.
---StrongAxe on 3/3/21

Adams lineage is Israels lineage.
Genesis 1 men/women are whoever they are.
Noah was perfect in his generations. The other mixed Adamites perished.
All humans didnt derive from Noah, following the flood. The Hebrew word erets means land or country, describing the area flooded. Several civilations march right through flood timeline, leaving known markers.
The global world was coveted in water in Genesis 1.
Your ignorance does not equal truth, just confusion. Your questions show the limit of your knowledge, not logic.
---Trav on 3/5/21


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Why would he pick only one family descended from the world's first sinner, while killing off everyone who wasn't tainted with sin?---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Why? But Noah....
(Genesis 6:7-9) And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, and the creeping thing and the fowls of the air, for I repent that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord. These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.
---David on 3/5/21


God never said, Thou shall not marry into this other MAN people. If it was a horrible sin to do so, they would have been told DO NOT. The Bible is full of instructions of not going in among the Gentiles, or even in the NT not to be yoked together with unbelievers.

Even among the Animals each multiplied with THOSE OF ITS KIND. Horses didn't mate with a bear etc. So I find it odd God didn't instruct mot to mate with those other SUPERIOR MEN , created after the IMAGE of God. ...who we see Jesus also is after the image of God, and we as Christians who have CHRIST IN US are being conformed to HIS IMAGE. Doesn't sound like a WICKED creation to me.

But back to those who have issues with incest...WHO DID SETH MARRY?
---kathr4453 on 3/5/21


David:

Again, WHY were only Noah and his family saved? They were descended from Adam, so they carried his sin. But if there were OTHER living humans, not from Adam, they didn't share in Adam's sin, so they couldn't have been "wicked", could they? Yet God decided to destroy almost all humans (and animals as well) due to man's wickedness.

Why would he pick only one family descended from the world's first sinner, while killing off everyone who wasn't tainted with sin? This is an absurd conclusion that is REQUIRED if you believe that there were other humans not descended from Adam.

(I'm not saying such a hypothesis contradicts science, but it contradicts the Bible).
---StrongAxe on 3/4/21


StrongAxe
Noah and his family were the only people who survived the flood. Therefore, that civilization created in (Genesis 1) went extinct, just like the animals,... we call Dinosaurs. Every Man, woman and child, born after the flood, is a direct descendant of Adam.

In the minds of man, before the 1800s, the Dinosaurs didnt exist either. Now since this species of animals, once existed, an existence completely unknown to man for thousands of years, do you think its plausible, that perhaps, there may have been a human civilization that went extinct along with them?
---David on 3/4/21


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But no one has answered...WHO DID SETH MARRY?

Your concern about Cain marrying those other men not of Adam , the ones created after the image of God, not included in Adams sin, ...so Cain marries into a superior race of men, without souls, created after the Image of God. So question 2, If those with souls marry those without souls, do their offspring have souls? Or was that the issue....

But anyway, WHO DID SETH MARRY? For SETHS LINE TO BE PURE, he had to have married someone from Adam and Eve. OK, back to the drawing board.
---kathr4453 on 3/4/21


David:

My point is that the Bible talks about "the wages of sin is death" and that sin is an inherited property - i.e. children inherit it from their parents. So if only Adam sinned, and there ARE humans from some other source, THOSE humans didn't inherit sin, so why do THEY need to be saved from it?

Trav:

God didn't just CHOOSE Adam, he CREATED Adam. ALL races on earth are described as descended from Adam. Please show me any other group of Christians anywhere in the world (that aren't considered a sect) who believe there are other humans God created that AREN'T descended from Adam. God only made a covenant with Israel, but he created ALL.
---StrongAxe on 3/3/21


If there actually were more than one line of men (e.g. one from Adam, and one or more from other(s)), then only the line from Adam was polluted by sin, not the other(s), as sin entered the world "by ONE man".---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Excellent point, but you are forgetting one little thing, that being,....sin is the transgression of the Law. God had only given one commandment, and that was given to Adam. Since Adam was the only one given a Law, he was the only one....who could sin.
---David on 3/3/21


......that's the conclusion you would need to reach .....
---StrongAxe on 3/1/21

It is your conclusion... yours doesnt count. GODs is the only one that matters. Your disagreement with GOD is meaningless.
GOD stated he chose one people multiple times. This people is from Adam, and concludes through Israel. The scriptures are written by them, to them and for them. Put into binding covenants.
Avoiding these truths are a tell... that truth is not your objective.

Amo 3:2You only have I known of all the families of the earth:....
Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, .....I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 3/3/21


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(Genesis 1:29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth, B>and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat.

(Genesis 2:16 & 17 )And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.


Here is another discrepancy in the creation story we all know.
Why could all the males and females created in (Genesis 1) eat from every tree, but Adam and Eve were restricted from eating from every tree?
---David on 3/3/21


Only for you David. I have no questions ... And those things in scripture, as we see several , are not issues for me. There are several points of view concerning Genesis and looks like it has never been resolved. I doubt any discussion here will resolve either. But if it's important to you, good luck with your beliefs on the subject. Just remember they are yours and should not be forced on another.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/21


You both present good arguments, but those arguments leave more questions than answers.

How do you explain the sequential changes in the creation of the world in (Genesis 1) and the creation of Eden in (Genesis 2)?
Who were the Sons of God in (Genesis 6:4)?
My account answers both of those questions.

Im not questioning the biblical account of creation, as Clarence Darrow did. Im simply questioning the account many Christians were taught as children.
---David on 3/2/21


David, Yours is simply YOUR OWN PERSONAL THEORY. Yet scripture states no scripture is of ones own personal interpretation.

The MAN created after the image of God in Genesis 1 is the very same man stated in 1 Corinthians 11:7. Genesis 1 says nothing about the woman being taken from Adams rib, yet 1 Cor 11:7 place the Genesis 1 as us today , and the woman being the glory of the man.....also described in Genesis 2. Genesis 2 says nothing about being created in the age of God, YET 1Cor 11:7 state we are.

Same MAN. Genesis 2 just gives more detail.

Those who teach false doctrine will receive a harsher punishment. Presumptuousness is AS SIN. You are committing sin by being presumptuous on this issue.
---kathr44 on 3/1/21


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David:

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as **by one man sin entered into the world**, and death by sin, and so death passed **upon all men, for that all have sinned**:

If there actually were more than one line of men (e.g. one from Adam, and one or more from other(s)), then only the line from Adam was polluted by sin, not the other(s), as sin entered the world "by ONE man".

It's strange, then, that God would destroy all of mankind, and ONLY save descendants of the sinner, while killing off all the descendants of the man/men who never sinned in the first place? Because that's the conclusion you would need to reach if there were some second origin for some human beings.
---StrongAxe on 3/1/21


You stated this as an absolute.---kathr4453

Kathrine
I can understand your assumption. At the time, when I wrote it I felt I had stumbled upon something exciting, something new I wanted to share. I put an exclamation point after it, to merely convey that excitement.

I dont know if I was right or wrong, and I would never teach it as an absolute until I do. But, I do absolutely believe the creation story in (Genesis 1) and (Genesis 2) are two different events. One being the creation of the world and the other is the creation of the Garden of Eden.

Because I believe this, I must have an answer as to Why Adam is called the first man God created. He could be called that because, he was the first man who served God.
---David on 3/1/21


Adam, was not created after the males and females in (Genesis 1), he was created before them. Adam was created First,...he was Created on the 3rd day!. David

David also the way you stated this was not a " MAYBE POSSIBLY. I just thought" kind of statement. You stated this as an absolute. When you do that you're not encouraging debate. You are setting up a confrontation. All truths come with supporting scripture. I have posted supporting scripture here showing those created AFTER THE IMAGE OF GOD are Adam and Eve. You see, each chapter is not a word for word duplicate. Neither are the 4 Gospels. Or do you believe there are 2 Jesus's?
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21


David Genesis 9 is after the flood where God addresses those created after His image which are your male and female not Adam and Eve. Also putting all scriptures together , comparing scripture to scripture my mind is set and no room to try to undermine the Word of God in any way shape or form. I believe there is only ONE CREATION OF MAN..PERIOD. If I don't get it, I don't try to create my own theory. I simply let the Lord know I don't get it, but He does, and if it's so terribly important to understand and my salvation depends on it He will explain it to me. I don't have to reason it out.

I see this was possibly your motive for this question and I have stated my belief. So my mind is CLOSED on this subject.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21


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....Eve created before the female on day 6 could not be the mother of all her living
---kathr4453


Noah and his family were the only human beings which survived the flood. Now since Noah descended from Adam, wouldnt this mean we all descended from...Adam and Eve?

I was merely being subjective with my guess about the 3rd day, trying to make it fit within the biblical parameters. In my mind, the only thing I cannot fit into the two creations, is Adam being the first man God created. This is why I thought maybe it was on the 3rd day, for the reason I expressed.

There are many things we can discover together about the creation story, but only if you open your minds.
---David on 2/28/21


Those in the "image of God" here today, ARE THE ONES offered salvation. Hummm. How can that be since scripture states THE LAST MAN ADAM came to save THE FIRST MAN ADAM , and nothing about these other superior beings ...EXCEPT Genesis 1 Is a summary of the 6 day creation, and possibly different author. Chapter 2 a more intimate recording of God interacting with man with no "days" mentioned. Look,even 1-2nd Samuel parallels 1- 2nd Chronicles has discrepencies .

BUT ...THE GOSPEL HAS NO DISCREPENCIES from Genesis to Revelation. Praise God.

1 Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21


Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
---Trav on 2/23/21

David, I post here for seekers/Lost Sheep who are seldom exposed to certain scriptures. Precept upon precept scriptures that give witness to ultimate truth. You'll note that false doctrines/ teachers will not, communicate on these. These scriptures shine light on their false / doc logic. Light infuriates darkness. A little light destroys an immense amount of dark.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little:
Isa 29:13...., but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
---Trav on 2/28/21


David:

The accounts of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 offer two mutually incompatible orders of creation. E.g. per your deduction, Adam was created BOTH on day 6 AND no later than day 3. This means one of two things:
1) The exact order of creation is not important, and us arguing over such minor details is choking on gnats, or
2) Parts of the bible are incorrect, and if we can't rely on some of it, we can't rely on any of it.
Which of the above two interpretations makes more sense, and are you more comfortable with?
---StrongAxe on 2/27/21


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Ok, so IN ADAM ALL DIE. That means those who are the offspring of Adam died re ADAMS SIN. The creatures created after the image of God , Genesis 1:26-27 have no soul. So scripture says THE "SOUL" THAT SINNETH..IT SHALL DIE. EZEKIEL 18:20. So those male and female after the image of God, not of Adams DNA ,must be close to 6000 years old if they were created only days apart. They don't die either, since they are not included in ADAMS SIN. I wonder why God never mentioned them again all through scripture? Also we see those created after the image of God still alive AFTER the flood, where God told Noah not to kill them. It's in Genesis 9:6. So where are they today? We know Angels have no soul but aren't called MEN either.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/21


David, you see two species of man, where the ones NOT ADAM AND EVE , were created 3 days after Adam and Eve were also given dominion over the earth and over the animals. Yet God brought the animals to Adam to name. Sounds confusing to me, as well as Eve even created before the female on day 6 could not be the mother of all her living ? Did God lie in Genesis 3?

And where is this other species of man TODAY? No DNA has ever proved such a thing. Everything named AFTER ITS KIND. Those in Gods image are not AFTER ITS KIND with those made of dust. Just because we say ANIMAL doesn't mean all ANIMALS are compatable to breed with one another. Cain , Adams offspring could not have breed with a superior female created after Gods image.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/21


Adam, was not created after the males and females in (Genesis 1), he was created before them. Adam was created First,...he was Created on the 3rd day!

How do we know this?
Because (Genesis 2:5) says Adam was created.....before every plant of the field was in the earth, and before every herb of the field grew, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

When did God finish planting...Every Plant and herb?...It was on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:11-13).

This is also why (Genesis 2) shows Adam being created before the animals, but in (Genesis 1), it shows male and females being born after the animals, on the 6th day.
---David on 2/27/21


If Trav and Davids account is true,...ADAM WAS A SON OF GOD (in the Gospels account.)---kathr4453 on 2/26/21

Adam is the line that universalist Denoms stumble over all the way through revelations. Truth is for those seeking asking for it.
Deu 7:6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 14:2For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
2Sa 7:24For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
---Trav on 2/26/21


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Wow, I have so many questions.
1) man in Genesis chapter 1 have no soul. And nothing about being made from the dust of the earth. So are they still alive today or did they all perish in the Great Flood of Noah's time. Was the flood then EVERYONE except Noah and family, or was this a local flood, where these superior beings without souls who could procreate ( Angels can't procreate) still live among us? Have they found DNA to prove two different species of man? And is it then a lie in Genesis 2-3 Eve is the mother of ALL LIVING ..meaning man...not animals or plants. She couldn't be the mother of the living superior beings created after the image OF GOD before she was created. This really opens many issues.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/21


David:

No. I had this same exact discussion with someone here years ago who insisted Genesis disproved science because creation order in Genesis 1 differs from cosmology/evolution. I asked him why is Genesis 2 order is different, and he inconsistently said timing in Genesis 1 is correct while Genesis 2 is not. (Either the Bible is accurate, or it isn't. You can't have your cake and eat it too.)

He also insisted Biblical (hence Genesis 1) days are always literal 24 hour days. There are two problems with this: 1) If you go by periods of sunlight, one couldn't do that during the first two days before the sun was created, and 2) If you go by 24 hours, Joshua's Long Day was much longer.
---StrongAxe on 2/26/21


StrongAxe
Can you explain why in the (Genesis 1:24-26) account of creation, the animals were created before man, and why in the (Genesis 2:18:20) account of Gods creation in the Garden, the animals were created after Adam?

And why the man and woman were created at the same time in (Genesis 1), but were not created at the same time in (Genesis 2)?

Its because (Genesis 1) is the first creation of man and woman on Earth, and (Genesis 2) is the account of Gods creation of a man...Adam, who worked in his Garden. Cains wife came from the folks who were in the first creation.

And when the folks from Gods creation in (Genesis 1) had relations with Adams Kin in (Genesis 2), this is what created the situation in (Genesis 6:4).
---David on 2/26/21


One can see even the 4 Gospels are not word for word describing the EXACT time Jesus was on earth.

Both Genesis 1 and 2 give an account of GOD CREATING MAN. One chapter gives more detail. Genesis 1 man is created AFTER THE IMAGE OF GOD. Genesis 2 is linked to the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Gospels. Those in 1 And 2 are the same MAN. If it were a different creature they worked not both be called "MAN" .



If Trav and Davids account is true, Genesis 1:26-27 is a SUPERIOR BEING than Genesis 2 which 2 says nothing about being created after the image of God. Yet Jesus genealogy links Jesus to Genesis 2.....which states ADAM WAS A SON OF GOD (in the Gospels account.)

So it's THE SAME.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/21


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David:
Genesis mentions no orgigin for men besides Adam and eve.
---StrongAxe on 2/25/21

Well yeah makes sense for a researcher who believes evolution, abortion, lbgt, biden etc. But, no scripture supporting... is an opinion. List it as such.
Amo 9:2Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them, though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
---Trav on 2/25/21


David:

Genesis mentions no orgigin for men besides Adam and eve. If the rest (e.g. other wives) didn't come from incest, they must have another origin untainted by the Fall.

While Genesis doesn't get into this, later books do (e.g. Romans 5). If sin affected mankind via Adam, that would not apply to people who weren't descended from Adam, would it? Yet it applies to ALL mankind.

Incest was a sin by the law of Moses, but not before. Genesis 12, 20, 26 mention 3 places patriarchs called their wives sisters. Either Abraham and Isaac were liars, or close relations were customary at that time. Polygamy was also common then, but not now. Laws and customs change.
---StrongAxe on 2/25/21


If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation.....---Trav

.....(Genesis 6:4).
The Sons of God were those who came from Adam...
---David on 2/25/21

Yeah, stuff the preacher cant or wont tell you. Their denom GOD has changed, mine has not.... I found out.
Hos 1:10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, and it shall come to pass,...... it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Mal 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
---Trav on 2/25/21


If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation..... answering timelines going past and beyond the normally taught Biblical timeline to tens or more thousands of years. Erasing these evolution arguments.---Trav

.....And this also explains where Cains wife came from and who the children of God are in (Genesis 6:4).
The Sons of God were those who came from Adam..not angels having relations with man.

...And Cains wife wife came from the men and women God created in (Genesis 1). Many church accounts of creation lead folks to believe we all came from incest.
---David on 2/25/21


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I believe that is what FAITH is about. Believing God even though we weren't there to see for ourselves. Believing God even if we can't wrap our human mind around. This is why many scoff at Salvation.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/21


As implausible as the creation story may seem, I see it as the only plausible account for creation. Many of us hear the Adam and Eve stories as written in children's books, through which the church developed tunnel vision.

This teaching leaves us with more questions than answers as we mature. Questions like, where did Cains wife come from...or were the Sons of God written about in (Genesis 6:4)...Angels?

We dont see the answers to these questions, because most of our teachings are founded on the teaching of man. Foolish teachings, these teachers claim...came from God. The very fact that they are foolish, should tell us they could not have come from God.
---David on 2/24/21


......for the most part, we all agree on the Genesis account,
....more than one theory for evolution.
---David on 2/20/21

Before i knew better i agreed with typical denoms, Genesis all men are from Adam beliefs.
If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation..... answering timelines going past and beyond the normally taught Biblical timeline to tens or more thousands of years. Erasing these evolution arguments.
Deu 32:8 .....he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
---Trav on 2/23/21


Samuel and Trav have very strong and compelling facts. Thanks for that information, and for posting it. Others like me who do not believe in evolution, but never really gave it much thought have more info to share with others who do believe in it.

I do believe man had adapted to different environments over these few thousand years, as the original Eden and the original place man was created didn't have SEVERE weather like we have after the flood. But I don't see that as evolution.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/21


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StrongAxe
Its easy for the Creationist to explain how man was created, and for the most part, we all agree on the Genesis account, But there is more than one theory for evolution.

For you, which one best explains the creation of mankind?
---David on 2/20/21


DNA provides strong evidence for evolution.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/21

DNA actually provides evidence against evolution and you.
Darwin, Marx and Freud used primitive scientific methods.
Marx and Freud are over, Darwin is falling now.
DNA is so complex from that it cannot just begin and replicate.
DNA is coded exactly like computer code. A Human has 3 billion letter codes... an intelligent language that types one error ( mutation) in 10 Billion. Errors are not good... remember.
This intelligent code arranging genes cannot just happen in an amoeba or a Human
Next step for a thinker like yourself might be Aliens from outer space, or canada...there is no where else logical or robust enough for you to go.
---Trav on 2/20/21


Sorry I do not see DNA providing strong evidence for Evolution.

I was an agnostic and used to believe in evolution. Which teaches a basic truth. Those animals who reproduce stay alive. Those who don't die out. Only the fittest survive. But a animal walking on land loses their legs and ends up as a Whale in the ocean,. Does not work. DNA follows basic rules. In living cells. No living cells no DNA. No life. So how did non living material become alive? Spontaneous generation does not work. Live only comes from previous life. I had to teach this in public school in Science. Fact.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/20/21


David:

The Bible said man was made from clay. It doesn't go into details about the exact steps God used to do so. Genesis is big on substance, not details. It leaves many questions unanswered. Presumably God didn't think it was important for us to know. E.g. since all creatures had a mate, why was Mrs. Serpent (and all her descendants) punished for the sins of her husband?

DNA provides strong evidence for evolution. Evolution says absolutely nothing (for or against) whether God guided it along, or God set it in motion initially and because of its robust design, it was able to do the rest of the work itself, or whether it happened totally by itself and by accident. Such questions are in the realm of theology, not biology.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/21


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David you will have to ask Strongaxe. I'm not familiar with anyone else's views on the subject. We were all with all life on earth made out of the dust of the earth. God created the heavens and earth. I do not believe in evolution that we came from fish to aps to humans etc. The fact that we all share dna is not an issue for me and for me does not prove evolution. It proved God created all exactly as He said.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/21


Kathrine
Did you know apes share over 98% of our human DNA? You have to agree, thats Pretty strong evidence for evolution. But then again, since I believe the Genesis account, I see that as pretty strong evidence for us as well.

I see this evidence as proof that God created everything, and see DNA as his fingerprints in creation. But As I recall, StrongAxe believes in evolution. And I wanted to know if DNA has changed his mind or made it more resolute.
---David on 2/19/21


Man was made from the clay of the earth. So were the plants and animals. So I don't see an issue here. What make man different is God breathed life into us and we became a living soul. You cannot DNA a soul. And only a soul can be created by God.

It's possible after the flood, seeing life span shortened, possibly why grapes fermented , seeing no verses on drunkenness before Noah caught off guard...we see change. But if evolution was true we would continue to see evolution taking place today.....or someone needs a good reason why it stopped.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/21


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