Does DNA Prove Creationism
I find DNA to be a fascinating study. But the findings, as to the origins of life, give evidence to the creationist and the evolutionist. Does the fact we share DNA with both plants and animals, give more evidence to the Creationist or to the evolutionist?
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---David on 2/18/21
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My point is that the Bible talks about "the wages of sin is death" and that sin is an inherited property - i.e. children inherit it from their parents. So if only Adam sinned, and there ARE humans from some other source, THOSE humans didn't inherit sin, so why do THEY need to be saved from it?
God didn't just CHOOSE Adam, he CREATED Adam. ALL races on earth are described as descended from Adam. Please show me any other group of Christians anywhere in the world (that aren't considered a sect) who believe there are other humans God created that AREN'T descended from Adam. God only made a covenant with Israel, but he created ALL.
---StrongAxe on 3/3/21|
If there actually were more than one line of men (e.g. one from Adam, and one or more from other(s)), then only the line from Adam was polluted by sin, not the other(s), as sin entered the world "by ONE man".---StrongAxe
Excellent point, but you are forgetting one little thing, that being,....sin is the transgression of the Law. God had only given one commandment, and that was given to Adam. Since Adam was the only one given a Law, he was the only one....who could sin.
---David on 3/3/21|
......that's the conclusion you would need to reach .....
---StrongAxe on 3/1/21
It is your conclusion... yours doesnt count. GODs is the only one that matters. Your disagreement with GOD is meaningless.
GOD stated he chose one people multiple times. This people is from Adam, and concludes through Israel. The scriptures are written by them, to them and for them. Put into binding covenants.
Avoiding these truths are a tell... that truth is not your objective.
Amo 3:2You only have I known of all the families of the earth:....
Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, .....I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
---Trav on 3/3/21|
(Genesis 1:29) And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed which is upon the face of all the earth, B>and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed, to you it shall be for meat.
(Genesis 2:16 & 17 )And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat, but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.
Here is another discrepancy in the creation story we all know.
Why could all the males and females created in (Genesis 1) eat from every tree, but Adam and Eve were restricted from eating from every tree?
---David on 3/3/21|
Only for you David. I have no questions ... And those things in scripture, as we see several , are not issues for me. There are several points of view concerning Genesis and looks like it has never been resolved. I doubt any discussion here will resolve either. But if it's important to you, good luck with your beliefs on the subject. Just remember they are yours and should not be forced on another.
---kathr4453 on 3/2/21|
You both present good arguments, but those arguments leave more questions than answers.
How do you explain the sequential changes in the creation of the world in (Genesis 1) and the creation of Eden in (Genesis 2)?
Who were the Sons of God in (Genesis 6:4)?
My account answers both of those questions.
Im not questioning the biblical account of creation, as Clarence Darrow did. Im simply questioning the account many Christians were taught as children.
---David on 3/2/21|
David, Yours is simply YOUR OWN PERSONAL THEORY. Yet scripture states no scripture is of ones own personal interpretation.
The MAN created after the image of God in Genesis 1 is the very same man stated in 1 Corinthians 11:7. Genesis 1 says nothing about the woman being taken from Adams rib, yet 1 Cor 11:7 place the Genesis 1 as us today , and the woman being the glory of the man.....also described in Genesis 2. Genesis 2 says nothing about being created in the age of God, YET 1Cor 11:7 state we are.
Same MAN. Genesis 2 just gives more detail.
Those who teach false doctrine will receive a harsher punishment. Presumptuousness is AS SIN. You are committing sin by being presumptuous on this issue.
---kathr44 on 3/1/21|
Wherefore, as **by one man sin entered into the world**, and death by sin, and so death passed **upon all men, for that all have sinned**:
If there actually were more than one line of men (e.g. one from Adam, and one or more from other(s)), then only the line from Adam was polluted by sin, not the other(s), as sin entered the world "by ONE man".
It's strange, then, that God would destroy all of mankind, and ONLY save descendants of the sinner, while killing off all the descendants of the man/men who never sinned in the first place? Because that's the conclusion you would need to reach if there were some second origin for some human beings.
---StrongAxe on 3/1/21|
You stated this as an absolute.---kathr4453
I can understand your assumption. At the time, when I wrote it I felt I had stumbled upon something exciting, something new I wanted to share. I put an exclamation point after it, to merely convey that excitement.
I dont know if I was right or wrong, and I would never teach it as an absolute until I do. But, I do absolutely believe the creation story in (Genesis 1) and (Genesis 2) are two different events. One being the creation of the world and the other is the creation of the Garden of Eden.
Because I believe this, I must have an answer as to Why Adam is called the first man God created. He could be called that because, he was the first man who served God.
---David on 3/1/21|
Adam, was not created after the males and females in (Genesis 1), he was created before them. Adam was created First,...he was Created on the 3rd day!. David
David also the way you stated this was not a " MAYBE POSSIBLY. I just thought" kind of statement. You stated this as an absolute. When you do that you're not encouraging debate. You are setting up a confrontation. All truths come with supporting scripture. I have posted supporting scripture here showing those created AFTER THE IMAGE OF GOD are Adam and Eve. You see, each chapter is not a word for word duplicate. Neither are the 4 Gospels. Or do you believe there are 2 Jesus's?
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21|
David Genesis 9 is after the flood where God addresses those created after His image which are your male and female not Adam and Eve. Also putting all scriptures together , comparing scripture to scripture my mind is set and no room to try to undermine the Word of God in any way shape or form. I believe there is only ONE CREATION OF MAN..PERIOD. If I don't get it, I don't try to create my own theory. I simply let the Lord know I don't get it, but He does, and if it's so terribly important to understand and my salvation depends on it He will explain it to me. I don't have to reason it out.
I see this was possibly your motive for this question and I have stated my belief. So my mind is CLOSED on this subject.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21|
....Eve created before the female on day 6 could not be the mother of all her living
Noah and his family were the only human beings which survived the flood. Now since Noah descended from Adam, wouldnt this mean we all descended from...Adam and Eve?
I was merely being subjective with my guess about the 3rd day, trying to make it fit within the biblical parameters. In my mind, the only thing I cannot fit into the two creations, is Adam being the first man God created. This is why I thought maybe it was on the 3rd day, for the reason I expressed.
There are many things we can discover together about the creation story, but only if you open your minds.
---David on 2/28/21|
Those in the "image of God" here today, ARE THE ONES offered salvation. Hummm. How can that be since scripture states THE LAST MAN ADAM came to save THE FIRST MAN ADAM , and nothing about these other superior beings ...EXCEPT Genesis 1 Is a summary of the 6 day creation, and possibly different author. Chapter 2 a more intimate recording of God interacting with man with no "days" mentioned. Look,even 1-2nd Samuel parallels 1- 2nd Chronicles has discrepencies .
BUT ...THE GOSPEL HAS NO DISCREPENCIES from Genesis to Revelation. Praise God.
1 Corinthians 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
---kathr4453 on 2/28/21|
Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
---Trav on 2/23/21
David, I post here for seekers/Lost Sheep who are seldom exposed to certain scriptures. Precept upon precept scriptures that give witness to ultimate truth. You'll note that false doctrines/ teachers will not, communicate on these. These scriptures shine light on their false / doc logic. Light infuriates darkness. A little light destroys an immense amount of dark.
Isa 28:10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little:
Isa 29:13...., but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
---Trav on 2/28/21|
The accounts of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 offer two mutually incompatible orders of creation. E.g. per your deduction, Adam was created BOTH on day 6 AND no later than day 3. This means one of two things:
1) The exact order of creation is not important, and us arguing over such minor details is choking on gnats, or
2) Parts of the bible are incorrect, and if we can't rely on some of it, we can't rely on any of it.
Which of the above two interpretations makes more sense, and are you more comfortable with?
---StrongAxe on 2/27/21|
Ok, so IN ADAM ALL DIE. That means those who are the offspring of Adam died re ADAMS SIN. The creatures created after the image of God , Genesis 1:26-27 have no soul. So scripture says THE "SOUL" THAT SINNETH..IT SHALL DIE. EZEKIEL 18:20. So those male and female after the image of God, not of Adams DNA ,must be close to 6000 years old if they were created only days apart. They don't die either, since they are not included in ADAMS SIN. I wonder why God never mentioned them again all through scripture? Also we see those created after the image of God still alive AFTER the flood, where God told Noah not to kill them. It's in Genesis 9:6. So where are they today? We know Angels have no soul but aren't called MEN either.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/21|
David, you see two species of man, where the ones NOT ADAM AND EVE , were created 3 days after Adam and Eve were also given dominion over the earth and over the animals. Yet God brought the animals to Adam to name. Sounds confusing to me, as well as Eve even created before the female on day 6 could not be the mother of all her living ? Did God lie in Genesis 3?
And where is this other species of man TODAY? No DNA has ever proved such a thing. Everything named AFTER ITS KIND. Those in Gods image are not AFTER ITS KIND with those made of dust. Just because we say ANIMAL doesn't mean all ANIMALS are compatable to breed with one another. Cain , Adams offspring could not have breed with a superior female created after Gods image.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/21|
Adam, was not created after the males and females in (Genesis 1), he was created before them. Adam was created First,...he was Created on the 3rd day!
How do we know this?
Because (Genesis 2:5) says Adam was created.....before every plant of the field was in the earth, and before every herb of the field grew, for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
When did God finish planting...Every Plant and herb?...It was on the 3rd day (Genesis 1:11-13).
This is also why (Genesis 2) shows Adam being created before the animals, but in (Genesis 1), it shows male and females being born after the animals, on the 6th day.
---David on 2/27/21|
If Trav and Davids account is true,...ADAM WAS A SON OF GOD (in the Gospels account.)---kathr4453 on 2/26/21
Adam is the line that universalist Denoms stumble over all the way through revelations. Truth is for those seeking asking for it.
Deu 7:6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
Deu 14:2For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.
2Sa 7:24For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
---Trav on 2/26/21|
Wow, I have so many questions.
1) man in Genesis chapter 1 have no soul. And nothing about being made from the dust of the earth. So are they still alive today or did they all perish in the Great Flood of Noah's time. Was the flood then EVERYONE except Noah and family, or was this a local flood, where these superior beings without souls who could procreate ( Angels can't procreate) still live among us? Have they found DNA to prove two different species of man? And is it then a lie in Genesis 2-3 Eve is the mother of ALL LIVING ..meaning man...not animals or plants. She couldn't be the mother of the living superior beings created after the image OF GOD before she was created. This really opens many issues.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/21|
No. I had this same exact discussion with someone here years ago who insisted Genesis disproved science because creation order in Genesis 1 differs from cosmology/evolution. I asked him why is Genesis 2 order is different, and he inconsistently said timing in Genesis 1 is correct while Genesis 2 is not. (Either the Bible is accurate, or it isn't. You can't have your cake and eat it too.)
He also insisted Biblical (hence Genesis 1) days are always literal 24 hour days. There are two problems with this: 1) If you go by periods of sunlight, one couldn't do that during the first two days before the sun was created, and 2) If you go by 24 hours, Joshua's Long Day was much longer.
---StrongAxe on 2/26/21|
Can you explain why in the (Genesis 1:24-26) account of creation, the animals were created before man, and why in the (Genesis 2:18:20) account of Gods creation in the Garden, the animals were created after Adam?
And why the man and woman were created at the same time in (Genesis 1), but were not created at the same time in (Genesis 2)?
Its because (Genesis 1) is the first creation of man and woman on Earth, and (Genesis 2) is the account of Gods creation of a man...Adam, who worked in his Garden. Cains wife came from the folks who were in the first creation.
And when the folks from Gods creation in (Genesis 1) had relations with Adams Kin in (Genesis 2), this is what created the situation in (Genesis 6:4).
---David on 2/26/21|
One can see even the 4 Gospels are not word for word describing the EXACT time Jesus was on earth.
Both Genesis 1 and 2 give an account of GOD CREATING MAN. One chapter gives more detail. Genesis 1 man is created AFTER THE IMAGE OF GOD. Genesis 2 is linked to the genealogy of Jesus Christ given in the Gospels. Those in 1 And 2 are the same MAN. If it were a different creature they worked not both be called "MAN" .
If Trav and Davids account is true, Genesis 1:26-27 is a SUPERIOR BEING than Genesis 2 which 2 says nothing about being created after the image of God. Yet Jesus genealogy links Jesus to Genesis 2.....which states ADAM WAS A SON OF GOD (in the Gospels account.)
So it's THE SAME.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/21|
Genesis mentions no orgigin for men besides Adam and eve.
---StrongAxe on 2/25/21
Well yeah makes sense for a researcher who believes evolution, abortion, lbgt, biden etc. But, no scripture supporting... is an opinion. List it as such.
Amo 9:2Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them, though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down:
---Trav on 2/25/21|
Genesis mentions no orgigin for men besides Adam and eve. If the rest (e.g. other wives) didn't come from incest, they must have another origin untainted by the Fall.
While Genesis doesn't get into this, later books do (e.g. Romans 5). If sin affected mankind via Adam, that would not apply to people who weren't descended from Adam, would it? Yet it applies to ALL mankind.
Incest was a sin by the law of Moses, but not before. Genesis 12, 20, 26 mention 3 places patriarchs called their wives sisters. Either Abraham and Isaac were liars, or close relations were customary at that time. Polygamy was also common then, but not now. Laws and customs change.
---StrongAxe on 2/25/21|
If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation.....---Trav
The Sons of God were those who came from Adam...
---David on 2/25/21
Yeah, stuff the preacher cant or wont tell you. Their denom GOD has changed, mine has not.... I found out.
Hos 1:10Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered, and it shall come to pass,...... it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
Mal 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
---Trav on 2/25/21|
If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation..... answering timelines going past and beyond the normally taught Biblical timeline to tens or more thousands of years. Erasing these evolution arguments.---Trav
.....And this also explains where Cains wife came from and who the children of God are in (Genesis 6:4).
The Sons of God were those who came from Adam..not angels having relations with man.
...And Cains wife wife came from the men and women God created in (Genesis 1). Many church accounts of creation lead folks to believe we all came from incest.
---David on 2/25/21|
I believe that is what FAITH is about. Believing God even though we weren't there to see for ourselves. Believing God even if we can't wrap our human mind around. This is why many scoff at Salvation.
---kathr4453 on 2/24/21|
As implausible as the creation story may seem, I see it as the only plausible account for creation. Many of us hear the Adam and Eve stories as written in children's books, through which the church developed tunnel vision.
This teaching leaves us with more questions than answers as we mature. Questions like, where did Cains wife come from...or were the Sons of God written about in (Genesis 6:4)...Angels?
We dont see the answers to these questions, because most of our teachings are founded on the teaching of man. Foolish teachings, these teachers claim...came from God. The very fact that they are foolish, should tell us they could not have come from God.
---David on 2/24/21|
......for the most part, we all agree on the Genesis account,
....more than one theory for evolution.
---David on 2/20/21
Before i knew better i agreed with typical denoms, Genesis all men are from Adam beliefs.
If one looks Adam was created in Genesis 2:7, Gen 1:26-31, describes a hunter gatherer creation..... answering timelines going past and beyond the normally taught Biblical timeline to tens or more thousands of years. Erasing these evolution arguments.
Deu 32:8 .....he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
---Trav on 2/23/21|
Samuel and Trav have very strong and compelling facts. Thanks for that information, and for posting it. Others like me who do not believe in evolution, but never really gave it much thought have more info to share with others who do believe in it.
I do believe man had adapted to different environments over these few thousand years, as the original Eden and the original place man was created didn't have SEVERE weather like we have after the flood. But I don't see that as evolution.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/21|
Its easy for the Creationist to explain how man was created, and for the most part, we all agree on the Genesis account, But there is more than one theory for evolution.
For you, which one best explains the creation of mankind?
---David on 2/20/21|
DNA provides strong evidence for evolution.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/21
DNA actually provides evidence against evolution and you.
Darwin, Marx and Freud used primitive scientific methods.
Marx and Freud are over, Darwin is falling now.
DNA is so complex from that it cannot just begin and replicate.
DNA is coded exactly like computer code. A Human has 3 billion letter codes... an intelligent language that types one error ( mutation) in 10 Billion. Errors are not good... remember.
This intelligent code arranging genes cannot just happen in an amoeba or a Human
Next step for a thinker like yourself might be Aliens from outer space, or canada...there is no where else logical or robust enough for you to go.
---Trav on 2/20/21|
Sorry I do not see DNA providing strong evidence for Evolution.
I was an agnostic and used to believe in evolution. Which teaches a basic truth. Those animals who reproduce stay alive. Those who don't die out. Only the fittest survive. But a animal walking on land loses their legs and ends up as a Whale in the ocean,. Does not work. DNA follows basic rules. In living cells. No living cells no DNA. No life. So how did non living material become alive? Spontaneous generation does not work. Live only comes from previous life. I had to teach this in public school in Science. Fact.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/20/21|
The Bible said man was made from clay. It doesn't go into details about the exact steps God used to do so. Genesis is big on substance, not details. It leaves many questions unanswered. Presumably God didn't think it was important for us to know. E.g. since all creatures had a mate, why was Mrs. Serpent (and all her descendants) punished for the sins of her husband?
DNA provides strong evidence for evolution. Evolution says absolutely nothing (for or against) whether God guided it along, or God set it in motion initially and because of its robust design, it was able to do the rest of the work itself, or whether it happened totally by itself and by accident. Such questions are in the realm of theology, not biology.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/21|
David you will have to ask Strongaxe. I'm not familiar with anyone else's views on the subject. We were all with all life on earth made out of the dust of the earth. God created the heavens and earth. I do not believe in evolution that we came from fish to aps to humans etc. The fact that we all share dna is not an issue for me and for me does not prove evolution. It proved God created all exactly as He said.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/21|
Did you know apes share over 98% of our human DNA? You have to agree, thats Pretty strong evidence for evolution. But then again, since I believe the Genesis account, I see that as pretty strong evidence for us as well.
I see this evidence as proof that God created everything, and see DNA as his fingerprints in creation. But As I recall, StrongAxe believes in evolution. And I wanted to know if DNA has changed his mind or made it more resolute.
---David on 2/19/21|
Man was made from the clay of the earth. So were the plants and animals. So I don't see an issue here. What make man different is God breathed life into us and we became a living soul. You cannot DNA a soul. And only a soul can be created by God.
It's possible after the flood, seeing life span shortened, possibly why grapes fermented , seeing no verses on drunkenness before Noah caught off guard...we see change. But if evolution was true we would continue to see evolution taking place today.....or someone needs a good reason why it stopped.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/21|