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Nationality Of Jesus

Everyone agrees that Jesus is a Jew, of the tribe of Judah. What nationality is the Jew?

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 ---Josef on 4/16/21
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Really, no scripture witnesses ? So seeing you have issues with the KJV I post from continually, what witnesses are you referring to... ARMSTRONG? HA!

One has to rightly divide the scriptural witnesses. The MYSTERY has a NT witness not in the OT. IS THIS WHY SOME REJECT PAUL? BUT PAUL is a witness to Jesus John 17 prayer where this Mystery was first spoken.

In the world but not of the world... Also NOT EARTHLY ISRAEL.
---kathr4453 on 5/2/21


Are you Judah or one of the lost tribes ....
And your doctrine is anti-Semitic to the core.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/21

Yeah thats it... looking for Israel is anti. Ha.
Ive never claimed to be anything other than a scripture believing Christian.
I post scripture that the prophets speaking for GOD wrote. The scriptures Christ and ALL Apostles honored.
The same scriptures rebuking the errors of kattr doctrine of no witnesses aligning with GODs servants.
Isa 8:20To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Rom 9:21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
---Trav on 5/1/21


That's right. That is what scripture teaches. But that is not saying INDIVIDUALS who like Ruth who testify YOUR GOD SHALL BE MY GOD, AND YOUR PEOPLE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE, also known as proselytes were joined to Israel. maybe Naomi's sons died because they married gentile HEATHAN women who still worshipped their own gods. Naomi's other daughter in law did not go with Naomi, and went back to her gentile people and their gods.

You really have a shallow understanding of Judaism considering you claim to be WHAT? Are you Judah or one of the lost tribes you can't even prove what tribe you came from? And since you say you have no DNA showing either, you are a wannabe Jew Rev 3 warns about. And your doctrine is anti-Semitic to the core.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/21


Do not go to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel...you will never be able to explain away.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/21

True.... it is not for some to see.
It is for the Sheep you may be making the Biblical point.
Gentiles: 500 year old Latin Never used by Christ or any Apostle.
Romans it is used twice in singular,
a Hellen (Grecian) or inhabitant of Hellas, by extension a Greek speaking person, especially a non-Jew: -Greek.

Gentiles plural.... 6 descriptors you use as one, clouding understanding of who is being spoken to or of. br>eth'-nos a race (as of the same habit), that is, a tribe, specifically a foreign (non-Jewish) one (usually by implication pagan): - heathen, nation, people.
---Trav on 5/1/21


No Ammonite or Moabite shall enter the assembly of the Lord, even to the tenth generation none belonging to them shall enter the assembly of the Lord for ever.

Deuteronomy 23:3
---JS1234 on 4/25/21

So Elimelech, Naomi, Boaz allowed Ruth in. GOD will change you perceive them thinking? These GOD fearing In Laws and relatives of living knew what you haven't considered.... residence does not equal race.
I am an American. An Okie born in Oklahoma, residing in a different state. Of Scottish origin, on one side English. Calling me any of these is correct.... but, does not give my Race.... ethnos. Neither is Ruths given.... except by Boazs acceptance.
My GOD does not change. If yours does he is not GOD.
---Trav on 4/30/21




TRAV, only your false doctrine redefining the definition of gentile to make it fit for you is all you have...yet have no proof except in your own head that the Gentiles are the Tribes of Israel. Ok SO EVERYONE UNDER THE SUN IS A JEW OR ISRAELI OR A HOUSE OR STICK.

So then exactly what advantage had the Jews? None actually, by your watering down who Israel re the Jews are. If Ivanka is a house then EVERYONE IS. And if everyone is.....no one was ever really LOST except lost in the sense of WITHOUT GOD. We call the lost the unsaved.

Do not go to the Gentiles but to the lost sheep of Israel...you will never be able to explain away.

---kathr4453 on 4/30/21


No TRAV, GOD never put a wall between any of the tribes,
---kathr4453 on 4/30/21

The split....
1Ki 11:31 he said to Jeroboam, Take thee ten pieces: for thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, Behold, I will rend the kingdom out of the hand of Solomon, and will give ten tribes to thee:
1Ki 11:35But I will take the kingdom out of his son's hand, and will give it unto thee, even ten tribes.br>1Ki 12:21 Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
---Trav on 4/30/21


No TRAV, GOD never put a wall between any of the tribes,

You make bazaar statements with NO BACK UP.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/21

Bizzaro fo sho to those in darkness.
Eph 2:14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us,
Eze 37:20
Eze 37:21..... saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
Eze 37:22I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
---Trav on 4/30/21


Wow, cherry picking a verse to tie into Ephesians, yet Paul,NEVER ONCE makes this distinction whatsoever in the NT. Maybe we should go back to when Joseph was sold int slavery ....because all his brother hated him and were jealous of them? So now we can divide the house of Joseph with all the rest and call them what?

No TRAV, GOD never put a wall between any of the tribes, however He did between Israel His Chosen nation and the Gentile world, not the Nation of Israel. The gentile world have have been around since the beginning of time. Noah didn't start the nation of Israel!

When pointing out these truths, you just WALLA, make them a mysterious house, like Ivanka. NO CAN DO ? You make bazaar statements with NO BACK UP.
---kathr4453 on 4/30/21


There was never enmity between the two houses.
br>---kathr4453 on 4/29/21

Wow.
Ill post to others through your post showing you pull stuff out of your own scrambling to give any answer. You wanna be a teacher... but, will break any of Pauls teaching or Christ to do so. Very specific penalties for this but, and also shows disobedience as a christian woman.
We see that you believe in you.....over Christ Paul or prophets.
1Ki 12:21And when Rehoboam was come to Jerusalem, he assembled all the house of Judah, with the tribe of Benjamin, an hundred and fourscore thousand chosen men, which were warriors, to fight against the house of Israel, to bring the kingdom again to Rehoboam the son of Solomon.
---Trav on 4/29/21




Paul didn't split hairs. Nor did Paul ever in the NT once mention two houses. So Again, your doctrine based on Armstrongism has to split hairs. Cults do that. Gentiles according to Paul as well are everyone NOT ISRAEl aka the UNCIRCUMCISED , heathan, barbarians, greeks, etc.
Even today many are not Israel or Jew BUT ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. There was never enmity between the two houses. There always was between Jew and Gentile. Anna from Asher along with many tribes we're not lost as in no one knew where they were. They came at Pentecost to Jerusalem from all over. Pentecost was actually a Jewish holy day. That is why all Jews could hear in their own language as many spoke different languages depending on where they came in from.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/21


WE USE JEWISH REFERRING TO ALL JEWISH/ISRAELITES, WE DONT SPLIT HAIRS
---kathr4453 on 4/28/21

GOD Splits hairs.
Your apostle used same language above, on splitting hairs on 29th. You said we. Your apostle your husband, wannabe, or just a new student?
Yeah Ivanka, honors her husband. A really cool attribute of some women. Hey perhaps she is on both sides of the New Covenant.... the one that shows both houses:
Heb 8:8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

2Sa 7:24For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
---Trav on 4/29/21


The EVERLASTING COVENANT to Abraham ... Is a covenant to both as the STARS in heaven and the sand .. there is the heavenly and the earthly. Circumcision on the 8th day represents the NEW CREATION. 8 means new beginnings. Re Noah and the 8. 8 is the first day after the seventh, the Day Jesus rose from the dead... Also stated in the OT. THIS IS THE DAY THE LORD HAS MADE.

The EVERLASTING Covenant was not annulled when God made a covenant with Israel RE MOSES, AND replaced the covenant to Israel with a new covenant to Israel. The Abrahamic Covenant is the EVERLASTING COVENANT God The Holy Spirit and THE WORD made before the foundation of the world.

Abel, Noah Enoch etc were never under Moses covenant or the new covenant. Heb 11.
---kathr4453 on 4/29/21


And that brings up an interesting point. Ivanka K rejected Christianity and converted to Judiasm. Is this what Trav is promoting here today? Is Trav a wannabe Jew, or Israelite? Is Jarred , being Jewish, ( WE USE JEWISH REFERRING TO ALL JEWISH/ISRAELITES, WE DONT SPLIT HAIRS. ) So according to Trav Ivanka and Jarred are Trav houses with all the blessings, and the rest of Christianity ..not practicing Jews are the infidels. So those who reject Jesus Christ as the Son of God are the real thing....YIKES.

And they are suppose to be walking in the commandments and statutes and ordinances of the Law.....hummmmmmm. Jarred's father too who just got a pardon from Trump, not God. I'm impressed.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/21


You have your own definition of Israel not in scripture. Because of that point, it's impossible to converse with you with scripture.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/21

As you see and avoid the scriptures I post to Sheep are specific to Israel. They have words like for ever and everlasting spoken to Israel. These scriptures you refuse are not posted to you or for you but, rather through your doctrinal confusion.
Scriptures that connect the OT and NT freeing some, not all from the nonsense Churches are passing off or selling for gain.
Joh 10:13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

Are you employed by your doctrine?
---Trav on 4/28/21


As anyone can see, the nations round about Israel in numbers 22-25 we're not lost tribes of Israel, but GENTILES. and these same GENTILES are who Paul brings the Gospel to in the NT. We also have Ruth, a MOABITE not a Jew in Israel , but joined herself with ISRAEL AFTER her husband died, not before. Naomi's other daughter in law went back to her people and their gods. Gentiles who converted to Judaism were proselytes. Just like Ivanka Trump.
---kathr4453 on 4/28/21


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Trav, continue reading Numbers 25. The stumbling block was MOABITE WOMEN.....

Ishmael, Esau, Lot, we're not in any way shape or form ISRAEL. Jacob alone was renamed ISRAEL. Not even Esau, Jacobs twin brother was a Jew/ Israeli OT a tribe. He married a Canaanite. EDOMITES or Moabites were not grafted onto Israel.

You have your own definition of Israel not in scripture. Because of that point, it's impossible to converse with you with scripture. Posting limited scriptures about certain blessings is not seeing the WHOLE TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/21


Numbers 22 -24). But Balaam's error and the source of his wickedness came from sabotaging the Israelites as they entered the Promised Land....
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21

When trying to be a teacher and you cut and paste as you did in your post, name your source.
Whoever you plagiarized, helped all here recognize clearly your partnership with Balaam in trying to sabotage all Israel.

Was no curse against Israel then or now.
Jud 1:11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

2Sa 7:24For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
---Trav on 4/27/21


Also TRAV, no one today knows what tribe they came from. And you say your from no tribe? Yet obsessed with a future restoration of the Nation of Israel that will take place after the Great Tribulation, after the Wrath of God comes. The church is saved from the wrath to come. The Church is actually going to reign and rule with Christ during the 1000 year reign to Restored Israel the Nation. We will be glorified together with Christ and earthly Israel will still be earthly. The Church is the first resurrection .. it's all explained in Paul's letters and in Revelation.
---kathr4453 on 4/27/21


Well Trav, the only significance Judah has is prophecy of where the Messiah would come.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21

Everyone sees, now understands your op-position to All Israel, and Judah. The Lost Sheep will see, hear their Shepherd his/their scripture, regardless of your personal doctrine.

Psa 105:25He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.

Isa 11:12And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isa 48:11For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
---Trav on 4/27/21


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Well Trav, the only significance Judah has is prophecy of where the Messiah would come. Even Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, tells us in Philippians 3 he considers all that old history he had under the Law dung,compared to the excellence and knowledge of knowing Christ. So even Paul stated there is no significance in any tribe TODAY UNDER GRACE. Benjamin would be considered Judah in your assessment. I'm not waiting for a restored Israel Trav, I'm waiting for the rapture of the Church. Like Paul,said TODAY THOSE IN CHRIST ARE NO LONGER JEW OR GENTILE, BUT A NEW CREATURE.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21


Balaam refused to speak what God did not speak and would not curse the Israelites, even though King Balak of Moab offered him money to do so (Numbers 22 -24). But Balaam's error and the source of his wickedness came from sabotaging the Israelites as they entered the Promised Land.

Funny the king of MOAB wanted to curse Israel. Why would Israel curse Israel? Trav's Moabites were Israel?????.....NOT. Trav seems to make statements he pulls out of his air mattress , having no clue what he is saying. Can't fool all the people all the time Trav. Some might be fooled by you...not me.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21


.... to be of the Tribe of Judah has no superior significance .
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21

Wow ....you make it up as you go along, even to being of Judah yourself.
Israel was chosen for service....

Zec 10:6 I will strengthen the house of Judah, I will save the house of Joseph, and I will bring them again to place them, for I have mercy upon them: they shall be as though I had not cast them off: for I am the LORD their God, and will hear them.

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises,

Heb 8:8.....saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
---Trav on 4/26/21


No Ammonite or Moabite shall enter the assembly of the Lord, even to the tenth generation none belonging to them shall enter the assembly of the Lord for ever.
Deuteronomy 23:3
---JS1234 on 4/25/21

As stated .....
Place of residence can never be definitive of race..... She proclaims herself as a nokriy/ stranger, being unknown/foreign to Boaz and his people but, not to Elimelech and his wife Naomi.
GOD does not change, nor his promises.
Who could believe in a GOD that flip flops. You?
There is no account in scripture of GOD doing so or in Christs lineage of any GOD fearing Israelite. Teaching this as doctrine would be Balaams error.
---Trav on 4/26/21


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The very reason God scattered Israel was because Solomon disobeyed and brought many strange women from the gentile HEATHAN world into Israel. God told Solomon he would not do it until AFTER he died. So we clearly see, OF THE NATIONS were not Jews or lost tribes.

So AGAIN , Ruth being a Moabite , not of Israel, one of Naomi's daughter in laws, who worshiped idols , turned her back on her own people, and said to Naomi, YOUR GOD SHALL BE MY GOD, RUTH 1:16-17...AND YOUR PEOPLE SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. Someone already a Jew or Israelite would not have to say that. She is what is called a proselyte.

Ruth married Boaz and is one of Jesus ancestors.

Just because you are a man Trav does not qualify you to teach.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/21


No Ammonite or Moabite shall enter the assembly of the Lord, even to the tenth generation none belonging to them shall enter the assembly of the Lord for ever.

Deuteronomy 23:3
---JS1234 on 4/25/21


God did not scatter Israel until AFTER Solomon died. ThIs idea the nations around,,AMORITES MOABITES HITTITES were the lost tribes is FALSE.

Deuteronomy 23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord, even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the Lord for ever:

1 Kings 11 :1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites: 2 Of the nations concerning which the Lord said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: for surely they will turn away your heart after their gods:.....
---kathr4453 on 4/25/21


Many are direct lineage to Abraham, he even remarried after Sarah died and had 6 more children, but they are NOT ISRAEL, OR ANY TRIBES. Only Jacob was renamed ISRAEL. They are sinners like ALL HUMANITY. God is no respector if persons, so getting all puffed up in your fleshly minds because you claim to be this or that means absolutely nothing. ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALLEN SHORT IF THE GLORY OF GOD. Gods promises to EARTHLY ISRAEL, will come at a great price to not only this world but to the Majority of Jews. Only a remnant will be saved to enter the earthly kingdom reign. That in itself is not the Gospel of Grace WE TODAY ARE UNDER. TODAY IS THE DAY IF SALVATION. Do it before the WRATH OF GOD COMES UPON ALL.
---kathr4453 on 4/25/21


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Like I said everyone here is free to express their view concerning this subject with out contradiction from me. I simply wanted to to hear them. And be allowed to express my own. Any constructive criticism is welcome. Personally, I am no dogmatic concerning any dogma.
---Josef on 4/25/21


Ruth was a Moabitess, but nevertheless an ancestor of Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 4/23/21

Place of residence can never be definitive of race....as you have alluded. Moabites are direct lineage to Abraham. She proclaims herself as a nokriy/ stranger, being from a different tribe of Israel.
No Levitical laws were ever broken in Christ lineage.
What kind of GOD breaks his own laws?? Yours?
Gen 19:36 Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
Gen 19:37 And the firstborn bare a son, and called his name Moab: the same is the father of the Moabites unto this day.

Lev 20:26And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine
---Trav on 4/24/21


There were MANY DISOBEDIENT evil kings who came out of the tribe of Judah, so claiming to be of the Tribe of Judah has no superior significance , except the Prophecy of where the Messiah would come. Solomon's disobedience bringing pagan wives and their pagan ways into Israel God scattered Israel.

Just use as a rule of thumb here. If your in a Church where the focus is on YOU, who or what you are, yes even Calvinism, it is a CULT. If you are in a Church where the focus is on Christ and who you are IN CHRIST you are in a Christ centered church.

IN CHRIST, you are no longer Jew Gentile, male female barbarian free etc, YOU ARE A NEW CREATURE. not to be confused with renewed creature. NO, A UNIQUE TOTALLY NEW CREATION.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21


Being a Jew is more their race. Those who live in the United States are Amer4ican. Those who live in Spain are from Spain. Nationality is about the country you are from.
---Samuelbb7 on 4/24/21


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I love this misinterpreted verse at bottom of this post, as it shows and confirms two parties involved. Judah and the Lost Sheep, divorced house of Israel who were mixed among the Greeks. Two parties are found in the New Covenant also.

Heb 8:8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christs, then you are Abrahams offspring, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:27-29
---Trav on 4/24/21


For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christs, then you are Abrahams offspring, heirs according to promise. Galatians 3:27-29

This verse is so vitally important for TRAV and Josef to obey. If IN CHRIST we are no longer seen after the flesh in our earthly state, then that's that. If your waiting for the fulfillment of those promises to Israel the Nation AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION, good luck. If you die before that happens YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SIN. The Bible isn't about who YOU ARE, but who Christ is. The difference between CULTS and genuine Christianity.
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21


Thank you for the information, I appreciate it. Keep it coming
---Josef on 4/23/21


I know the traditions surrounding the deception.
And simply wanted to have an honest debate. Apparently that can't happen here.
---Josef on 4/23/21

But, everyone can see this is not exactly true what you are saying in your statements above.
You dont want a debate you wanted confirmation of your personal theories and racial preferences.
You might have better success sticking with the Bible, these two make it up as they go along to suit their personal logic and personal doctrines.
You obviously dont like scripture I post either but, consider its not my scripture... its Israels. At the least one can be free in truth.
Son 5:10My beloved is white and ruddy, the chiefest among ten thousand.
---Trav on 4/24/21


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Gentiles who accept Jesus are a wild branch that is grafted onto the tree, and heirs to the promise.
---StrongAxe on 4/23/21

Wild branch? This deceptive phrase is not found.
What is stated is, Rom 11:17And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree,
Rom 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Context of who ethnos/nations/ gentiles is divorced North house of Israel. By all prophecies, covenants.
---Trav on 4/24/21


The identity of tribes are actually lost today. Not even DNA can determine this. But names like Coen, Cohen etc give way to possible lineage to the tribe of Levi. But even with intermarriage among Jews themselves, no exact proof there. There are no pure blood tribes of Judah. So exactly how do you know you are from Judah? Or are you spiritualizing it away in some form thinking all who belong to Jesus are Israeli Jews of Judah, because Jesus was? Because the LION is actually symbolic of Jesus.

Hopefully we're not getting into another of the NOT LOST TRIBES, doctrine. Anna the Prophetess in the Gospels was from the Tribe of Asher. Her family wasn't lost. Hummmm.
******1Timothy 1:4, Galatians 3:28
---kathr4453 on 4/24/21


Responsese Kat on 4\22. I Am a Lion, of the tribe of Judah. An Israelite. Son of Judah. Of the lineage of Jacob. Renamed ISRAEL.
---Josef on 4/23/21


Josef:

One of the principles established in the Old Testament is that if someone joins Israel (e.g. by becoming Jewish), they are now part of the tribe, and heirs to the promise. This same principle is echoed in the New Testament. Gentiles who accept Jesus are a wild branch that is grafted onto the tree, and heirs to the promise. Ruth was a Moabitess, but nevertheless an ancestor of Jesus.

The Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry is largely discredited, and has often been cited by anti-semites to de-legitimize modern Jews. Genetic studies of Ashkenazi Jews finds no genetic markers from Khazars/Caucasus, but many of Middle Eastern, Mediterranean, and South European origin.
---StrongAxe on 4/23/21


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2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.


Josef,Genesis 49 PROPHECY list all Jacobs sons for THE LAST DAYS.

I also believe since 1948 we're seeing the beginning of Isaiah 14. It concerns me you are promoting a doctrine of coming against Israel as Zechariah 12-14 predict ....stating they are not Jews. ANTI-SEMITIC TO THE CORE. I don't believe one day Jesus is going to say WALLA, and pull a new set of Jews out of His ear that are from the tribe of Judah. Also no scripture states an imposter of Jews are driven off the land so the real Jews can take it. Show that prophecy.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/21


Strongaxe see my first couple of post on 4/21 That summmons up my belief concern this. I've always enjoyed your post, with much respect. I'm not just saying that because I don't want you to critique my post to badly. Please express yourself freely. Thank you enjoy
---Josef on 4/23/21


Kat, on 4/23 I believe they do. The vision of Jesus' physical appearance in heaven Rev 1:14'I believe' does depict, physically, His appearance on earth. The beryl color I believe represents the color of the garmet He was wearing rather than skin tone. I believe the skin tone of Jesus and His brothers from the tribe of Judah to be dark now, and when He walked amoug us. Could I be wrong? Of course, Again, I am simply sharing my beliefs and view of those passages.
---Josef on 4/23/21


Kat Isiah 14:1 hasn't taken place yet. It hasn't even been initiated.
---Josef on 4/23/21


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Josef:

Yes, I have also noticed the same thing. There are many discussions where I haven't replied - because I actually did, but the responses didn't show up. It's hard to tell why, as there is no mechanism to give or receive feedback on posts.

It seems like you believe that the people currently in the country of Israel are not, in fact, descendants of ancient Israel, and as such, aren't entitled to the promises that go with that heritage. Why do you believe that?
---StrongAxe on 4/23/21


Although I didn't realize there was a "Jewish nation" but as I consider it, there is a nation calling themselves Jewish, A nation trampling down the land Promised to the children of Israel, and refer to themselves as Israeli. However I was referring to Israel. Those who are Israelites. Descendents of Jacob, renamed Israel. Of the tribe of Judah.
---Josef on 4/19/21

The State of Israel today is made up of many different Jewish folks from all of Jacobs sons, from all over the world. From European Jews, approx 30% to Russian Jews, Ethiopian Jews ,Middle Eastern Jews,to Asian Jews. Many never left the land. We see prophecy being fulfilled since 1948 ..Isaiah 14:1. Israel is not exclusively descendents of the tribe of Judah.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/21


I can see this exchange is not going to be allowed to continue freely, my related post are not showing up here. Now I remember why I stopped posting here. To be fair and objective, alternative, and seemingly opposing views must be allowed.
---Josef on 4/23/21


Kat since our views concerning this subject are so contrasting and I'm obviously not going to be allowed to present mine. I want to apologize for offending you. That wasn't my intent. What purpose would be gained by such offense? However I should have realized that it couldn't be avoided. I know the traditions surrounding the deception. And simply wanted to have an honest debate. Hopefully without the argument. Apparently that can't happen here.
---Josef on 4/23/21


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These verses have nothing to do with earthly Jewish skin tones.BERYL is actually the color of blue symbolic of HEAVENLY.
Revelation 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were as a flame of fire,15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace, and his voice as the sound of many waters.16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

Daniel 10:6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
---kathr4453 on 4/23/21


Kat I want you to know that I answered you question concerning what I believe my ethnicity to be and why. The response was disallowed, perhaps I will find my way around that.
---Josef on 4/23/21


I guess some don't understand DNA and tests both the mothers side and the father's side. DNA can actually narrow down ones DNA to 4 women when testing ones Jewish DNA.... Would be Rachael and Leah and their two handmaidens the mothers of Jacob's 12 sons.


Revelation 14:1, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads."

Nothing about skin tone here.

Only because Paul was arrested etc for preaching the Gospel was he accused of possibly being that Egyptian , another who caused much trouble ... It wasn't his skin tone, but his reputation that was in question.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/21


To suggest European Jews are not true Jews is anti-Semitic propaganda. This is not a new concept, and it won't end. Maybe Josef you don't realize what you are saying, or maybe you do. But it is offensive to multitudes of European Jews who died and have had family members die during the holocaust . It was because of this horrible time in History Israel became a Nation bringing Jews back to the Land God gave them.

So I find this post question offensive in light of the direction it is going.

Josef, what ethnicity are you? If you say Jew...how do you know...by your skin tone ? Not all dark skin folks are Jewish. By DNA? or if you say neither, then what have you to gain by promoting anti-Semitic propaganda?
---kathr4453 on 4/22/21


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Kat what do you think Rev 14:1 suggest if not skin tone and Hair texture? It reads the same as the descriptions given in Dan 7:9 And 10:6. That Paul, as a Jew could be mistaken as an Egyptian is what I referenced. Job is quoted as saying his skin is black suggesting a sun tan man of color not a sun burned. "white" man which would have been described as red. The only thing DNA would prove is that those currently abiding in Israel are descendents of Japheth not Shem or Jacob. But like I said I am not here to attempt to teach but rather to share.
---Josef on 4/22/21


Look out for the dogs, look out for the evil-workers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. For we are the true circumcision, who worship God in spirit, and glory in Christ Jesus, and put no confidence in the flesh.

Philippians 3:2,3
---JS1234 on 4/22/21


Josef, your post that Israel today is not Israel, is what that article was refuting. The idea that Israel today is not Ancient Israel, is what you said. Whatever else could you have meant? You suggested Revelation 14:1 suggested skin tone. It does not. You say Barnabus and Simeon were from Niger, however I see a comma stating Simeon was, not Barnabas. Suggesting Paul was Egyptian, where no scripture makes that statement. That is what this article is about....saying European Jews are not Jews because why, they are not DARKER skin? Job was not a Jew, and that verse is not saying he is a black man. The same verse states his bones are burnt ....affected with boils , sitting in the sun day after day, suggests he was sun burnt.
---kathr4453 on 4/22/21


Kat your last post has absolutely nothing to do with what I've posted. Are we going to continue the exchange honestly?
---Josef on 4/22/21


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By James Sinkinson
(Flame via JNS) Many opponents of Israel try to disconnect the Jewish peoples long-standing relationship with the Land of Israel as a way of delegitimizing Zionism and the modern State of Israel. They claim the Jewish people today are not descended from the ancient Hebrews and Israelites, and thus try to weaken the case for Zionism and the re-establishment of Jewish sovereignty in its ancestral homeland.

The claims do not come from any one community and have been diffused throughout the years by white supremacists, radical Islamists, far-left and far-right conspiracists, Japanese doomsday cults and parts of the U.S. black community, whether the Nation of Islam or the Black Hebrew Israelites.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/21


Kat you loss me??? Did you ask a question? What exactly didn't you understand? I will clarify.
---Josef on 4/21/21


Josef, acts 21:38 is not saying Paul was that Egyptian ...as Paul says No, I'm not, I'm a Jew. There evidently was an Egyptian at that time causing trouble, but it wasn't Paul. But I still don't understand your question. There are no ancient Jews alive today. All have been scattered, and many have had intermarriages. Just an example would be your thinking Paul from the Tribe of Benjamin, looked Egyptian, would mean somewhere along the way someone married an Egyptian who converted to Judiasm. We see no such history about Paul, but if it were so, he was still an Israelite, just like any who married other...as Boaz marrying Ruth, a Moabite....and Jesus Ancestor.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/21


Kathy 4/21/21 No I've said exactly what I mean. And I mean exactly as I have written no excuses or explaination, unless of course I'm asked respectfully. Otherwise everyone is of course Free to believe what ever understanding you have. I'm OK I'm just here to share. Not teach, I am no man's teacher. I am one in need to be taught. All praises to the Father for the inspiration He has so graciously provided.
---Josef on 4/21/21


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Kat, yes I'm sure. the man we know as Jesus is of the tribe of Judah. How He looks ethnically is describe in Rev 14:1 A description of a man of color. Paul is a Israelite of the tribe of Benjamin, he is described ethnically as being comparable in appearance to an Egyptian Acts 21:38. In Acts 13:1 Barnabas and simeon was called Niger which translates "black". Job is quoted as saying that his skin was black upon him. Job 30:30. It's not rocket science. Israel is a dark skinned people. The "white" people residing in Israel are kharzar and Ashkenazi converts to Judaism, European Jewish Israelis calling themselves Jews. not ancient Israelites.
---Josef on 4/21/21


Both The Jewish Nation, and the term Middle East are fabrications. Neither is mentioned in Scripture. They were created by mankind as part of their deception. Just as the suaz channel was created to divide the land of Ham in an attempt to give validity to that deception. Mankind established that lie intentionally to deceive. Intended to represent a fulfilling of prophecy. In 1948 Mankind would Have the Children of Israel believe that that initiated the sign of the end times and the soon coming of Christ. These things are obvious to those of us who have paid attention.
---Josef on 4/21/21


However I was referring to Israel. Those who are Israelites. Descendents of Jacob, renamed Israel. Of the tribe of Judah.
---Josef on 4/19/21

My daughter posted a statement yesterday, but it didn't make it on. So I'll ask for her. What do you mean by "of the tribe of Judah"? Jacob has 12 sons, of which all 12 are descendents of Jacob. No scripture says only the Tribe of Judah will return. Did you mean something else? If so, please share.
---kathr4453 on 4/21/21


Kat on 4/20 That's exactly who they are. Je'wish Israeli. You are absolutely 100% correct. We are in full agreement, as usual.
---Josef on 4/21/21


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Josef, you're welcome!
---JS1234 on 4/20/21


Js1234, thank you for responding, sharing your thoughts and offering me an alternative view to consider. And I can understand why you responded as you did. I am sure there are almost as many thoughts concerning this as there are those who refer to themselves as Christians.At least you thought enough to attempt to help a brother out.
---Josef on 4/20/21


Josef, are you sure those who have gone back to Israel today are not Israeli? Many never left , but after 1948 many Israeli Jews have returned. So I'm confused by your comment. I'll bet their DNA does show they are of the descendents of Jacob. What proof do you have they are not true Jews?

Because God scattered the Nation doesn't mean they are no longer Jews. God is bringing them back to the land as promised. Slowly but surely.

I don't believe you can categorize Jews the way you do others. There is no other on earth to make such a comparison.
---kathr4453 on 4/20/21


Josef, I think I follow your reasoning.
---JS1234 on 4/19/21


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Js1234, I suppose it would. Although I didn't realize there was a "Jewish nation" but as I consider it, there is a nation calling themselves Jewish, A nation trampling down the land Promised to the children of Israel, and refer to themselves as Israeli. However I was referring to Israel. Those who are Israelites. Descendents of Jacob, renamed Israel. Of the tribe of Judah.
---Josef on 4/19/21


Josef, I think so. Jews are a nation in an ethnic sense. So I guess they are part of the Jewish Nation.Is that what you mean?
---JS1234 on 4/18/21


Js1234 is it any clearer
---Josef on 4/18/21


I more than likely misunderstood the question.
---JS1234 on 4/17/21


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Perhaps I should have used the word ethnicity.
---Josef on 4/17/21


Js123 I think there's a difference between nationally and citizenship. However I appreciate your honest response to my inquiry. Thank you.
---Josef on 4/17/21


I think the nationality of any Jew is that of the country where he is a citizen. Jews in the United States are Americans.
---JS1234 on 4/17/21


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