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What is the WILL OF GOD... I believe scripture says to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The WILL OF GOD is described in Roman's 1:1-17. Also the will of God is to take up your cross and FOLLOW HIM. Also as a glimpse, Jesus said...NOT MY WILL BUT THINE BE DONE, again showing the Will of GOD THE FATHER RULES. So how does one come to KNOW The Will of God? It's right there in Romans 12:1-2.....just more scripture David said is false teaching.

If you don't believe first in the DEITY OF CHRIST, you can NEVER do the Will of God no matter how hard you try.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/21

If David had a good foundation of scripture, he would see Romans 2:6-7 is addressed to CHRISTIANS . Just as James Ch 1 show PATIENCE ENDURANCE addressed to those of faith....the part about faith with works. David wants the works part but no Jesus or faith part.

Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season, 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward. 27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/21


What "doctrines" do you mean? You keep accusing my "doctrines" of being wrong, yet you know nothing about what I believe, because you're constantly using Superman-like leaps of illogic to jump to conclusions about what I believe, and you keep getting it wrong.

I agree with Matthew 7:21 and Romans 2:6-7. I CONSTANTLY post about Matthew 25 and the sheep and the goats. They are judged, not because of what they believe, or their theological knowledge or correctness, or being in the right church - only by HOW THEY TREAT OTHERS.

If you deduce from my posts that I disagree with those verses, it means you haven't been paying attention.
---StrongAxe on 6/23/21

---kathr4453 on 6/23/21

br>Gal 4:4But when the fulness of the time was come
br>Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Heb 10:16This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
---Trav on 6/23/21

When have I ever said that "Paul's epistles make Jesus a false teacher" or that makes Paul one as well.//StrongAxe

Your doctrine teaches it, but you dont see it because those who follow false doctrines, are spiritually blind.
Examples? Do you agree with the following teachings? The answer is No. Both false according to your teachings.

Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life,
(Romans 2:6-7)
---David on 6/23/21

1) is the Gospel about Jesus....the promise of the messiah starting in Genesis 3:15
2) or about simply the teachings of Jesus ...a master teacher?

The Pharisees in John 8 rejected #1. ROMANS 1:1-17 is called The Gospel of GOD. Also DEFINED in vs 16- 17 as the Gospel of Christ. So are you saying PAUL in Roman's 1:1-17 is lying? This GOSPEL was prophecied in the OT. And this very Gospel OT SAINTS we saved , by their faith in this same Gospel....Abel is a perfect example. His faith was in the promise of Gen 3:15....just a tiny glimpse of light he had, where we first see this promise of the Messiah.

Evertthing about the Law and the construction of the Tabernacle WAS A PICTURE OF JESUS CHRIST. HEBREWS SHOWS THIS AS WELL.
---kathr4453 on 6/23/21

I've never said the 4 Gospels are not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would like to see that posted with a time date keeping David honest here.

Let's begin....the Gospel began in Genesis 3:15, not Matthew Mark, Luke or John. Hebrews 3-4 state of Israel in the OT The GOSPEL was preached to them as well as unto us.

So my question is....what Gospel is David talking about that is exclusively in Matthew Mark Luke and John and NOWHERE ELSE? THE GOSPEL PROMISED THE MESSIAH, who is Jesus Christ, who would die for our sin Isaiah 53...RISE AGAIN. PSALMS 16:10, Psalms 110:1, Job 19:27.

Jesus spoke of His death and resurrection. John the Baptist too said BEHOLD THE LAM OF GOD WHICH TAKETH AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. THE GOSPEL!
---kathr4453 on 6/22/21


I have not "aligned myself with Katherine". I have been saying what I see the bible saying, and she does the same. If we happen to say similar things, that's why

When have I ever said that "Paul's epistles make Jesus a false teacher" or that makes Paul one as well? Please be specific. Show my specific words, and I will answer about them.

The Bible specifically says "no scripture is of private interpretation". Since you claim every church on the planet gets it wrong, is not your own interpretation thus a "private interpretation" that disagrees with everybody else, by its very definition?
---StrongAxe on 6/22/21

...we are forbidden to enter the house of ANOTHER NATION re Gentiles....

NOW GENTILES were offered the Gospel of salvation, OR he is Trav.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/21

The Lost Sheep, divorced Nth house of Israel were scattered amongst your gentiles. To be found. Christ did find them along with all his Apostles.
Divorced having lost their position until Redemption through Christ.
Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. br>Eze 11:16Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD, Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet will I be to them as a little sanctuary in the countries where they shall come.
---Trav on 6/22/21

The 4 Gospels ...Do not go to the Gentiles ..but to the lost sheep of Israel. (sic)

Is David now saying he is Israel, a Jew? Simply put, Peter AFTER Jesus rose from the dead was sent to Cornelius. Peter even argued with God. Saying...we are forbidden to enter the house of ANOTHER NATION re Gentiles.... ACTS 10:28

This understanding and teaching CAME AFTER Jesus 4 Gospels.

David has a choice here....either to accept God was still teaching the Apostles AFTER JESUS ASCENSION, ***JOHN 16:12 **** one being that NOW GENTILES were offered the Gospel of salvation, OR he is Trav.

Luke wrote Luke and Acts...and much of it long before he even meeting Paul and AFTER JESUS ASCENSION.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/21

I did not say you believed it, this is why I asked the question. But since you have aligned yourself with Kathrine, and she does not believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the Gospel of Jesus Christ, was it not a fair question?

And I said, every church, who does not make the Gospel of Jesus their foundation, has it wrong. And you said, you believe that too, so I dont understand your disagreement.

And, I do not question the legitimacy of Pauls teachings. What I question is the manner in which his letters are used. With Pauls epistles you not only make Jesus a false teacher, you make Paul one, as well!

Plus, you have no witnesses to your interpretation of what you believe Paul taught.
---David on 6/22/21

Here we have Acts ch 15 GRACE. where LUKE, testifies of PETER writes...,

Acts 15: 6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.7 .......Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


Vs 11 PETER SAID..not Paul...But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ WE SHALL BE SAVED, even as they.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/21

When we Repent and are baptized we then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not saved when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, as you believe. We are saved, when we are born of the Spirit. Many folks receive this gift, but very few are born of the spirit. (Matthew 22:14)

---David on 6/18/21

Matt 22:14 say " many are called but few are chosen". David believes one must reach sinless perfection to be CHOSEN and WALLA YOU ARE BORN AGAIN. But let's take Paul. God CHOSE PAUL when he was dead in trespasses and sin, being struck down on the road to Damascus on his way to murder more CHRISTIANS,who believed in and upon Jesus which Paul did not AT THAT TIME.

Scripture disagrees with the Gospel of David.
---kathr4453 on 6/21/21


You wrote: If the teachings of a church are not found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are false. Its as simple as that.

True. However to say EVERY church on the planet gets it wrong is presumptuous. I seriously doubt you have studied the theology of every church on the planet, let alone know what or where they all are.

Do you not believe that, or like Kathrine, do you not believe the first four books of the New Testament are the Gospel of Christ? Surely you can answer that question for me.

Yes, I do. When have I ever said otherwise? Jesus gave Peter authority. Peter acknowledged Paul's legitimacy. Therefore, Paul has legitimacy corroborated via the authority conveyed by Jesus himself.
---StrongAxe on 6/21/21

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand,

2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures,

4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Notice it doesn't say according to Paul. Hummm. THIS IS THE GOSPEL DAVID REJECTS.


---kathr4453 on 6/21/21

I offered you proof, and you simply turn your head. I just dont know how to get through to folks like you and Kathrine. If the teachings of a church are not found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are false. Its as simple as that.

Do you not believe that, or like Kathrine, do you not believe the first four books of the New Testament are the Gospel of Christ? Surely you can answer that question for me.
---David on 6/21/21

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David asks:
Using the teachings of Jesus Christ, and only those he taught to his disciples to teach us, show me the Lords teachings on Grace.///



John 3:16 IS GRACE.

FAITH BEGAN IN GENESIS. And this too is what David rejects. Yet JESUS reiterated FAITH over and over.

What must I do to be saved....BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AKA FAITH. ACTS 16:30-33

Lets take Peter not Paul here regarding SIN. 1 Peter 4.....Does David reject this teaching too?...

So David claims he understands better than Peter too?
---kathr4453 on 6/21/21


Again, it is the height of presumption to assume that "Every church in the world is wrong, but I'm right". You can't possibly know the doctrines taught in EVERY organized church, so it's impossible to make such a claim with certainty in the first place.

The belief "We're right and everyone else is wrong" is the basis for every schism that has ever happened in the church, and is the cornerstone of every cult (especially Christian-based ones like Mormonism and Jehovah's Witnesses). Such thinking divides Christ.

Is every church imperfect? Sure. Nobody is perfect besides Jesus. Is every church dead wrong? No (see above).
---StrongAxe on 6/20/21

Assuming that all the prominent characters in the Bible had exactly the same theological perspective as you do is the height or presumption, especially when you include Jesus in the list.---StrongAxe

I know what she meant and I stand by my answer. The teachings of Jesus Christ and the ones he taught to his disciples, are not taught in any organized church today.

Using the teachings of Jesus Christ, and only those he taught to his disciples to teach us, show me the Lords teachings on Grace.

Then tell me what you have learned, and be honest.
---David on 6/20/21

Thank you StrongAxe. David knew what I ment , just as you did, but decided to make a joke if it, as I see he finds this all funny.

The New Covenant in Jesus BLOOD, and the Everlasting Covenant also in Jesus Blood...Hebrews 13:20-21 promise The Holy Spirit accompanying salvation. David, without understanding, is calling the Trinity three separate individual Gods, where they do things separately but not as one. HERESY. Colossians 3:1-4, John 17 , Roman's 5- 8 just to name a few places show THE ENTIRE TRINITY INDWELS THE BELIEVER upon repentance UNTO LIFE. Aka salvation. People don't repent just so they can have the Holy Spirit, and not salvation. Yikes...Acts 16:30-34....WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED?
---kathr4453 on 6/20/21

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Assuming that all the prominent characters in the Bible had exactly the same theological perspective as you do is the height or presumption, especially when you include Jesus in the list.

What kathr is asking for is what church *today* teaches exactly what you have been saying here.
---StrongAxe on 6/19/21

I know its not your objective, but you really do make me laugh when you attempt to say things, designed to make me mad.

Too funny, and I am sure others appreciate your unintended humor.
---David on 6/19/21

David, I showed you Cornelius was SAVED when he received the Holy's right there in Peters testimony in Acts 11. Like I said, you are all over the place, and do not exhibit Galatians 5:22-25 every minute of every day therefore you are NOT SINLESS. Just claiming you are doesn't make it so. You are delusional. You spout you are sinless, which Cornelius, Stephen, Paul, Peter James , Barnabas etc never once made such a statement or taught sinless perfection or ANYTHING YOU TEACH. They are OF FAITH....YOU ARE NOT.

Anyone can take verses and make up their own you have. Even stating you agree with Hinduism... I'm done with your trolling here. LEAVE ME ALONE PLEASE. Your looking more and more like a stalker.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/21

So please provide me a list of others who believe as you do. ---kathr4453

People you have heard of?
There is Jesus, of course. Then we have his twelve disciples. And there is Luke, Paul, Cornelius, and Steven. We also have Barsabbas, and Matthias. There are many more, but you will need to read all of the New Testament to find them.

Hopefully someday you will believe what Jesus taught and I will be able to add your name to that list, but more importantly, God will be able to add you as a permanent member of his family.
---David on 6/19/21

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StrongAxe .....But then again, if you answered it truthfully, Kathrine would now be spewing lies about you instead of me. Which is another clue according to (Revelation 21:8).

---David on 6/15/21

A sinless person is described in Galatians 5:22-25. I see no FRUIT OF GALATIANS 5:22-25 AKA "SINLESSNESS." IF one walks in THE SPIRIT 24/7/365 in David. Also for there to be any fruit, one must be crucified with Christ...where our flesh is crucified, and we now BELONG TO CHRIST JESUS.....AKA BEING SAVED.

This David does not believe, or practice. Nor is his projection of his lie above posted on 6/15 FRUIT, or 1Corinthians's maliciousness...evil.

David is a very confused person who is not sinless.
---kathr4453 on 6/19/21

David just because YOU never experienced this doesn't mean others haven't. When I received the Holy Spirit this was my experience and testimony. I know what you said, and SCRIPTURE DISAGREES WITH YOU. The very moment I received Jesus Christ I received the Spirit of His Son into my heart and I came right into the presence of MY FATHER IN HEAVEN. IT WAS AWESOME. SOMETHING I WILL NEVER FORGET.

Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Galatians 4:6
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/21

David, I need a list of those who believe as you do. You need to prove yours is not Is a private interpretation, as scripture forbids, but that others believe as you do. I've never heard of your doctrine before, and believe me, I've heard many. Yours is new to me, not just your sinless perfection dogma, but all of what you believe. Maybe someone else can explain it better than you. I find you go in circles, and often contradict yourself.

If you can't provide names of time teachers, books you read, or denomination you are affiliated with, then you are of a private interpretation, and I am forbidden to accept anything you teach.

So please provide me a list of others who believe as you do.

Thank you.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/21

Isn't repentance and being baptized saving yourself?Kathrine

Let me try to clear things up for you. Your teachers have got things all muddled up. I blame your teachers, not you, for believing as you do. But you will pay the same penalty, so listen.

When we Repent and are baptized we then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not saved when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, as you believe. We are saved, when we are born of the Spirit. Many folks receive this gift, but very few are born of the spirit. (Matthew 22:14)

The reason why, is probably because they all believe just as you do. What is the sign given, so we will know we have been born of the Spirit?(1 John 3:9-10)
---David on 6/18/21

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Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Here is a witness scripture of John 8. Jesus came to set us FREE....and that freedom included the yoke of bondage to the LAW. Just as Paul teaches in Galatians. The LAW was only a picture of CHRIST...A SCHOOLMASTER to bring us to Christ. The law was bondage. A heavy YOKE , the legalists tried to put on Gentile Christians as well.

So we are COMMANDED TO STAND FAST IN in the Liberty where Jesus Christ has made us FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH.

The LAW could not bring life or forever wash away sin. Only JESUS CAN. Those still under the law are NOT FREE.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/21

David doesn't understand under the law, having to sacrifice bulls and goats daily for sin, Israel was actually servants of sin. The pharisees became so comfortable in the law that was put there to exposed sin, that they actually became twisted in it's application condemning everyone but themselves. The Law was implemented as a picture of Christ... The LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD. They rejected Jesus just as David has, and THAT IS what ALL John 8 is about.... For those who don't cherry pick verses out of context. The chapter IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST, not sinless perfection. If you stay IN THE WHOLE WORD OF GOD, THE WHOLE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE.
Verse 36 AGAIN ....Jesus sets us free from sin, not us or the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/21

David, Isn't repentance and being baptized saving yourself? .....

You have not proved you receive the Holy Spirit apart from salvation. There are no scriptures supporting your theory.

However Titus 3:5 totally contradict your theory.


So let me thank you for exposing your false doctrine here on line. And for showing you cannot call Jesus Christ LORD GOD ALMIGHTY ...proving you actually do not have the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12:3. For showing us you scoff at salvation BY FAITH...Roman's 14:23 seeing you have no faith.....YOU PRACTICE SIN DAILY.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/21

Over the years you have been very helpful in my understanding the foundation of many false doctrines. Though you may fight and squabble amongst yourselves, doctrines like yours are founded on saving oneself. Which is why I showed you (Acts 2:38).

I honestly didnt know, folks believed they were saved, when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was an Eye opening revelation for me. You gave me another way to reveal the false doctrine, to those who believe as you do. And again I thank you. And Hopefully someday, you will be able to thank me when you can read (Acts 2:38), and see the truth in what I have shown you.
---David on 6/17/21

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1) The letters of John were written to the Church - i.e. to already saved individuals

2) John specifically wrote that if we sin, Jesus forgives us (admitting the possibility that it is possibility to sin, even after being saved)

3) He further went on to say that if we claim that we have NOT sinned, the truth is not in us.

The apparent contradiction between Jesus and John is not actually a contradiction. Before we are saved, we are SLAVES to sin. After we are saved, we are no longer slaves to sin. Yes, we are capable of sinning (occasionally), but sin no longer dominates our lives.
---StrongAxe on 6/17/21

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which ARE SAVED it is the power of God.

Those who are perishing are not:
1) sinless. for one.


For Christ to be IN YOU, and YOU IN HIM, we are told this happens when we put our faith in Jesus Christ and when this happens God IMMEDIATELY baptizes us into Jesus death....and then we are RAISED UP TOGETHER WITH HIM, A NEW CREATURE. ONLY THE NEW CREATURE IS SINLESS and will one day be free from our fleshly bodies of sin.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/21

David, Strongaxe never said he was sinless or believed in sinless perfection. I don't believe Trav has stated he is sinless nor anyone else online here except ELOY, who was finally kicked off ... So why are you forcing an issue he disagrees with you on and has told you Right here on this thread. Not exercising FAITH is sin.

You keep saying Jesus is a master teacher, but you have never acknowledged Him as LORD GOD AND SAVIOR.

ARE YOU SAVED? LETS TURN THIS AROUND. IS DAVID SAVED WHO DENIES CHRIST ALONE PUTS AWAY SIN. David says he can do it without Jesus. Remember The Holy Spirit didn't go to the Cross for your sin David...JESUS DID.

---kathr4453 on 6/16/21

How was I not truthful? I don't know her heart, and neither do you.---StrongAxe

Let me rephrase the question, with your comment I believe you may have misunderstood what I was asking. Kathrine believes she is saved, and has stated so many times. She has also stated, that she had sinned after she was saved. You have never made these claims, and this is why you were not my example.

According to what Jesus taught in (John 8:34) and in (1 John 3:9-10), is she saved? Now before you answer, remember, Jesus is a teacher, the master teacher. Some of the things he taught were in parable, but most of the gospel teachings are not. A teaching taught by a master teacher, is taught so even fools like us can understand.
---David on 6/16/21

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How was I not truthful? Be specific. I don't know her heart, and neither do you. Neither you nor I are qualified to be her judge. Only God is. Jesus commanded us to Judge Not.

Yes. I repeatedly refer to 1 John 1:9-10, including in my last message - and note that this was written to people WHO WERE ALREADY BELIEVERS.

Some people insist that once we are saved we are incapable of sin, but if that were true, there would have been no need for John to have written what he did above, since it would never come up. In fact, John's statement "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us" speaks for itself.
---StrongAxe on 6/15/21

David you have an unhealthy obsession about me. Nearly all your posts over the last couple years have been either about me or to me. You want to play God in my life and life of faith without invitation. You intrude where you are not wanted. I told you I do not believe in your doctrine. You take scripture out of context to FORCE on others.

Scripture does not teach your doctrine. We are saved BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH the very moment we put our faith in Christ just as Peter testifies of Cornelius and family.

Your obsessive hate David is not healthy but a sign of possible mental issues. Now you try to invite others to join your hate. THAT'S SIN.

---kathr4453 on 6/15/21

I got the answer I expected. I was checking to see if we could have a constructive conversation, but just wanted to check first. And by your answer, you showed me you can not be truthful in our discussion. But then again, if you answered it truthfully, Kathrine would now be spewing lies about you instead of me. Which is another clue according to (Revelation 21:8).

So I will try another one.
Do you believe what John said in (1 John 1: 9-10)KJV?
Yes or No.
---David on 6/15/21

David throws around John 8:34-35 but PURPOSELY OMITS VERSE 36.

If the son therefore shall make you free ye shall be free indeed.

Thank you Jesus for setting me FREE from the penalty of sin and death. Thank you for dying for my sin,. Thank you Jesus for saving me and giving me the Holy Spirit where I can now walk in the Spirit and not the flesh. Thank you Jesus for raising me up with you, a new creature AKA BORN AGAIN......BY GRACE I HAVE BEEN SAVED. THROUGH FAITH, not of works.

Every Pharisee from the beginning of time HATE THOSE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. The scriptures are steeped with such Pharisees, who Crucified the Lord,and tried to have Paul killed daily. These folks will always be around.
---kathr4453 on 6/15/21

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Your Snarky answers David IS SIN. It reeks of a self-righteous attitude towards others. Judging others is sin, as we are told not to judge. You decide who is and isn't saved, SIN, because you exalt yourself above measure. All this arrogance and pride coming from you IS SIN. I have asked time and again for your apology on issues you falsely accused...never got one....Jesus says if you've offended another, you need to go to them and make it right. Your disobedience IS SIN. Your pride IS SIN.

You are a slave of sin David.

No scripture states we must accomplish sinless perfection before we can be saved. Jesus died for our sin. SIN IS FORGIVEN AND PUT AWAY IN CHRIST ALONE. A doctrine you deny.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/21


Do you believe Kathrine is saved?

That is a question I can't answer - and neither can you. Only God knows. Jesus said "Judge not", because we think we know answers, but are often wrong. Demanding one-word answers is a trap. Jesus refused such questions from Pharisees. Like the classic "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Every one-word answer is wrong.

Jon wrote that if we admit our sin, he is quick to forgive us - AND THIS WAS WRITTEN TO BELIEVERS. There would be no need to say that if believers could never sin. Also, "If we say we have not sinned, we deceive ourselves".

If YOU believe that YOU never sin, are you saved, or do you (as John wrote) deceive yourself?
---StrongAxe on 6/14/21

What, exactly did Jesus teach, that I don't believe? Be specific. In particular, which "doctrines" of mine contradict John 8:34-35?---StrongAxe

Jesus taught in those verses, those who sin are slaves and the slave has not been accepted as a permanent member of the family of God, AKA saved. Kathrine claims to be saved and yet she sins, when Jesus calls her a slave of sin.

Do you believe Kathrine is saved?

(Matthew 5:37) All you need to say is simply Yes or No, anything beyond this comes from the evil one.
---David on 6/14/21

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7 ?.....8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned.

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

---kathr4453 on 6/14/21

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Actually David that is exactly what scripture states in Cornelius testimony, or rather Peters testimony concerning Cornelius. REPENTANCE unto life is salvation. You might want to read Peters recap of that experience in Acts 11 . But focus on Peters words SAVED ACTS 11:14 AND REITERATED AGAIN VS 18.


So David, your snarky answer was unnecessary.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/21


You wrote: Its there, but since you havent experienced Pauls testimony in (Romans 7: 7-25), you dont see it.

How does one "experience" testimony?

The problem is, you say you believe in Jesus, yet you dont believe what he taught.

What, exactly did Jesus teach, that I don't believe? Be specific. In particular, which "doctrines" of mine contradict John 8:34-35?
---StrongAxe on 6/12/21

Galatians 1:15 - But when It pleased God, Who separated me from my mother womb, and called me by his grace,
---RichardC on 6/12/21

You'll never know the damage done to those told .." If you don't speak in tongues you are not saved". Another EXPERIENCE damaging scenario---kathr4453

Oh and dont forget the one your doctrine teaches, That we are saved when we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift, Peter taught we receive when we repent and are baptized.

So if we repent and are baptized, according to your doctrine, we can save ourselves if we do these things. Which is a clear and dangerous teaching of works.
---David on 6/12/21

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Nowhere does the bible say we are saved through experience.---StrongAxe

Its there, but since you havent experienced Pauls testimony in (Romans 7: 7-25), you dont see it. This is an experience of how the saved, died to sin. Its my experience, but you must experience it to see it.

Sin is a sign of the unsaved, not the sign of the saved. The problem is, you say you believe in Jesus, yet you dont believe what he taught. Here is just one example where Jesus lied according to your doctrines.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
---David on 6/12/21

You'll never know the damage done to those told .." If you don't speak in tongues you are not saved". Another EXPERIENCE damaging scenario. Oh, they say...THATS PROOF YOU HAVE THE HOLY SPIRIT. Yet Paul clearly states not all speak in tongues....but they don't want to see that.

This is what John teaches ..the order of our growth and maturity
1) Children know their sins are forgiven
2) young men have OVERCOME THE EVIL ONE
3) Fathers because you have known Him that is from the beginning.

Here's a list of experiences that tell you if you are on track. Those obsessed with SIN will never mature and be OVERCOMERS..***Hebrews 6:1***We don't overcome sin, we overcome SATAN. (A WHOLE NEW BALLGAME.
1 John 2:13-29
---kathr4453 on 6/12/21


EVERYONE'S experience is subjective, because they personally experience it, and in many cases, there is no way to objectively verify that experience. In Paul's case, his Damascus Road experience was independently corroborated by God's vision to Ananias (Acts 9).

As far as Romans 7 goes, what does that have to do with this discussion? He was teaching law. He was not describing his personal experiences.

If your experience doesnt match his, you are on the wrong path.

"By grace we are saved through faith". Nowhere does the bible say we are saved through experience, nor does it instruct us what kind of experience we need.
---StrongAxe on 6/11/21

My point is, subjective experience is no guarantee of correctness.---StrongAxe

Subjective experience?
Do you see Pauls testimony in (Romans 7) as a subjective experience too?

The problem though, in understanding Pauls testimony, Paul was educated in the Law, so his speak is different than the common man. He is like a Harvard Law professor trying to explain physics to a 10 year old.
And if he was hard to understand in his day, the only hope we have in understanding him, is through our spiritual experience.

Paul gives a spot on experience, as to the stages we go through when we die to sin, and what we must go through to live for God. If your experience doesnt match his, you are on the wrong path.
---David on 6/11/21

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God exercises us to be able to discern good and evil. Those exercised are able to eat strong meat and get off the baby bottle. Many of these exercises are teaching us to distinguish between the Holy Spirit and Satan working through our emotions. Satan does and can imitate the Fruit of the Spirit and changes himself into an angel of light and preacher of righteousness. Satan works through our emotions, God works through the NEW MAN. The NEW MAN IN CHRIST has been born again. So if one says they have the HS but are not born again, it's NOT THE SPIRIT OF GOD. The testing of our faith is where these exercises begin. And through them we GROW UP INTO HIM INTO THE FULLNESS AND STATUTE OF CHRIST. That can't be done if you're not Born Again first.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/21

My point is, subjective experience is no guarantee of correctness. Mormons belive the Book of Mormon is the Word of God, and teach their followers to pray to God to ask if it is - and most feel they get a positive response - yet they are all mistaken.

Many claim to be born again and have a conviction of sin - but rather than God convicting them of the essence of sin, they have a laundry list of "don't do this, don't do that" - Pharisaical legalism. Pharisees had different ideas of what "sin" was than Jesus. They choked on trivial details. They condemned thieves and prostitutes - yet Jesus freely ate with such, and his biggest problems were with religious hypocrites, Pharisees "holier than thou" attitude.
---StrongAxe on 6/10/21

Brother, You got me to thinking.
I have proven to Atheists the existence of God, through the experience one has after a confession of sin.

These folks did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit before they did this, and yet their experience of forgiveness and cleansing promised in (1 John 1: 8 & 9), was the same as mine. I did not know these folks, so I could not follow their progress.

Causes me to wonder, if their experience was God keeping a promise, or did they receive the Holy Spirit when they did this? Hmmm
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
(Luke 11:13)
---David on 6/10/21

Water baptism can't save a flea. REPENT FIRST, and then be baptized. But What made you think you were "born again" 6 months after you repented and received the Holy Spirit? We always need the word to back up these things. I know people have different experiences and insist others must have THEIR EXACT EXPERIENCE or they are not saved. Re being slain in the spirit.....WRONG! So dangerous.

My experience was different. After I was saved, the Lord called me by my name and said..."I want your whole life". I said YES. It was THEN spiritual warfare began, and OH WHAT an experience I had. I don't measure others by my experience. But I will say, it is scripturally backed up in James Chapter 1.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/21

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I received the Holy Spirit through the instruction given in (Acts 2:38). I was baptized, but did not repent until some 15 years later. And that, is when I received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How did I know?
When I received the gift, I knew sin where there was no sin. I could actually see evil for the first time in my life, in me, and in the world around me.

Being like an infant in this new experience, I didnt understand or even know it was the Holy Spirit. To be honest, It seemed more a curse at the time and for the next 15 years, until I learned the power of daily confession. After that, I was born of God about 6 months later.
---David on 6/9/21

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Stay in the Word of God.

As in the Inquisition, man, not the Holy Spirit became the sin police, accusing folks of sin God never said was sin. It was sin to a religious orginization with their own rules and doctrine. We see this in many denominations today....don't wear this, don't eat that, don't buy there, boycott them.

Our relationship with the Lord is a PERSONAL ONE, that the religious man wants to come between, and make you accountable to them. ***Galatians 6:13***
---kathr4453 on 6/9/21


How does one know "for sure" if one has received God's Holy Spirit? Having an inner feeling isn't enough. Many people sincerely believe they received God's Holy Spirit, but by their words and deeds, they plainly have not. Many so-called prophets claim to prophesy (a gift of the Spirit) prophesy things that don't happen, or that contradict other prophets. This proves their belief is delusional.

There have been Christians on this planet for almost 2000 years, but also so much death and suffering inflicted during that time (e.g. slavery, the Inquisition, etc.) shows many people who thought they were following Christ weren't really.
---StrongAxe on 6/8/21

and all the world may become guilty before God. (Romans 3:19)

Those who have received Gods Holy Spirit, can tell the difference between Guilt before God and Peer Pressure.

But you make a good point, If someone has not received the gift of the Holy Spirit, maybe they dont know the difference. I just assumed this being a Christian blog, Janet was a Christian and has the Holy Spirit to guide her.

Or are you saying you have difficulty discerning between the two? If so, if you feel the need to confess said sin, that is guilt before God.
---David on 6/8/21

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Nothing creates more false guilt than a Jewish Mom. Some might laugh, but it's used to manipulate and control another which leads to serious oppression and depression when an adult. Satan oppresses with false guilt over sin God has forgiven us, and we have to BY FAITH stand our ground.

I know some like to use this tactic on others when insisting if one doesn't believe them, they are rejecting Jesus. WRONG!

If the person has to ask here, it's not out of personal guilt, but because someone told them it was wrong. But then another can tell them Christians shouldn't wear make-up, or shorts, or public swimming. So the real question is, DID THE LORD CONVICT YOU OR NOT? Many things sold others will always object to.
---kathr4453 on 6/8/21


God can use guilt to convict us of sin, but guilt is an emotion that can be invoked in other ways. Sometimes people feel guilt for things because of cultural indoctrination, peer pressure, or other things - and those things are not from God. One needs to be able to discern where the guilt comes from.
---StrongAxe on 6/7/21

Do feel guilty when you sell cigarettes?
Guilt is a sign from God, a sign which tells us when we do wrong. I think every Christian deals with a question like this from time to time.

And though many dont realize it, God has written his commandments upon our hearts and we will feel guilt when we break them.
Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)

Guilt is a clear indication when we have broken Gods Law.
Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God.
(Romans 3:19)
---David on 6/7/21

Does selling cigarettes harm the body? According to medical evidence it does. Along with what the medical data there is the Scripture in I Corinthians, which reads we are the temple of the Holy Spirit. To sell cigarettes damages the Temple of the Holy Spirit. So, from me, the answer is "NO" you should not sell cigarettes!
---WIVV on 5/26/21

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Blogs here are limited to 75 comments. Whenever heated discussions happen on some blog, and that blog gets closed off because its full without the discussion being resolved, some people continue that discussion on some totally unrelated blog, essentially hijacking that conversation onto the old topic (instead of starting a new blog for this purpose). This happens here frequently.

People don't seem to mind too much, e.g. there were only three comments on that subject here before David8318 dragged his pet topic (Jehovah's Witness anti-trinitarianism) into this blog. Note that the person who started this blog initially has never commented on it, so it's not clear if she has ever actually seen any of the responses here.
---StrongAxe on 5/24/21

I thought this blog was about selling cigarettes. What happened?
---JS1234 on 5/23/21

Ephesians 6:17 - And take on the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit which is the word of God.

Jeremiah 48:10 - Cursed be he that doeth the work of God deceitfully , and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood,
---RichardC on 5/23/21


You remember only the negative. Many Catholic and Protestant clergymen secretly worked against the Nazis, sheltered Jews, etc. Many of them gave their lives doing so. This is exactly what the early Christians did - upholding their faith by opposing an evil regime, at the cost of their lives.

But all of this is distracting from my original point - that JWs kept making authoritative predictions about the future, and when those predictions didn't pan out, they kept retroactively changing their estachology.

Also: Luke 22:36
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
---StrongAxe on 5/22/21

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//World War I was not started by the Catholic church//- strongaxe.

Nobody is saying it did. But governments were desperate for support from the RCC and other Constantinian religions. And the Archbishops fell over themselves to provide that support.

The RCC didn't stop at WWI. There is clear evidence Eugenio Pacelli (known as Pope Pius XII) along with Von Papen, "signed a concordat between the Holy See and the Nazis on July 20, 1933... Hitler interpreted the concordat to mean that he had won the church's approval, thereby gaining international recognition of his Nazi regime" America Magazine.

I cannot find any record of JW's supporting a campaign of war which cost millions of lives... can you?
---David8318 on 5/21/21

//they should sell one and buy a sword//- strongaxe

Not sure which scripture strongaxe mis-quotes, but Jesus said:

"for all who draw the sword will die by the sword"- Matthew 26:52 (NIV).

The prophecy at Isaiah 2:4 obviously doesn't apply to strongaxe Constantinian religion, "They will beat their swords into plowshares... Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore". (NIV)

DESPITE what Strongaxe says, trinitarians HAVE been taught not to "go like sheep to the slaughter", but to fight and kill other trinitarians.

"For whoever does not love their brother and sister... cannot love God, whom they have not seen." - 1Jo.4:20 (NIV)
---David831 on 5/22/21


World War I was not started by the Catholic church. The quote you mentioned above was about entering an ALREADY EXISTING war to stop it. Remember that Jesus himself told his disciples that if they had two cloaks, they should sell one and buy a sword. Nowhere does Jesus tell us that we should go like sheep to the slaughter.

Yes, Jesus was the Prince of Peace, but he was not exclusively that. In Revelation, he returns and slays evildoers with the sword that comes out of his mouth.
---StrongAxe on 5/21/21


No JW's don't make predictions "over and over" again, neither do they claim divine insight. These are pathetic strawman arguments to push sordid twisted lies about a peace loving group who shun the sordid and corrupt Constantinian Catholic Church who cowtow to satanic warlords!

//I spent one year with JWs in 1976//

But strongaxe prefers Constantinian Christianity with trinitarians who remove God's name 6973 times, and preach war and death.

Strongaxe is... "A dog returning to its vomit," and, "A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud." (2Pe.2:22 NIV)

//just "book studies"//

Well at least we didn't have book burning sessions!
---David8318 on 5/21/21

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//Damage caused by trinitarians is DESPITE what they teach//- strongaxe.

Rubbish! It was Catholic teaching to take up arms and go to war!

On April 18, 1917, Cardinal Gibbons, the Archbishop of Baltimore wrote a letter to President Wilson, signed by him and all the other US Archbishops:

"We stand ready... committed to our keeping, to cooperate in everyway possible with our President and our national government... Our people will rise as one man to serve the nation".

Gibbons on the threshold of WWI continually told Catholic trinitarians: "the duty of a citizen is absolute and unreserved obedience to his country's call".

The damage caused by trinitarians IS because of what they teach!
---David8318 on 5/21/21

Unfortunately some have jobs that require selling things Christians don't use. If you are a cashier at any of those places, and this is the ONLY JOB you can find, then you surely must do as your employer requires. If you didn't make this area of conscience known up front, and you got hired, you should do what you were hired to do. If you did make this known, and your employer stated he would work around that, then hold him to it. It would have been dishonest on your part to have an objection and not state it. You robbed someone else from taking that job.

Please ask these details before taking a job. If you don't and deceive your employer, you are in the wrong.
---kathr4453 on 5/19/21

You would need to ask yourself WHY you're doing this, and what they are being used for. Cigarettes serve no useful purpose, and are and addictive substance that causes long-term health problems for those who use them, which can result in illness, shortened life span, expensive medical bills, and death. Do you feel comfortable selling people things that will only harm them?
---StrongAxe on 5/14/21

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