Do Unsaved Live Forever
Trav, and exactly what do your verses have to do with soul sleep?
Again, showing confusion and misappropriating scripture relevant to the subject at hand, Trav either needs to lay off the booze , or get the mental health issues addressed.
Being angry all the time, spending long nights awake thinking up hateful jabs not relevant to these subjects is sad. Who has respect for that? Gods power does not speak through hate.
Trav is blowing his horn in the wind.
---kathr4453 on 6/22/21|
r>So why do I need their witness? ..."FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD". Proverbs 13:20
---kathr4453 on 6/21/21
More important would be Scriptural witnesses to Christians that fear the only GOD, his Prophets and Christ. These witnesses are against your false doctrines. Witnesses today rebuke your misunderstandings. You hear neither.
Love your use of scripture finally that is appropriate. Describes your homemade katr doctrine to a jot and tittle.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
---Trav on 6/22/21|
You wrote: So many witnesses against her and no acknowledgement.
"So many witnesses" seems to imply that you're doing some counting, so let's count.
Which witnesses would those be, exactly? The ones I hear the complaining the loudest are you, David, and Jerry. How about others on this site? 220 think your comments have been helpful. 215 think jerry6529's have been. 139 think David's have been. 886 think Kathr's have been. 1583 think mine have been. Do the math.
---StrongAxe on 6/21/21|
Ok so Trav also does not believe in eternal life. But I get that, because only God THROUGH JESUS CHRIST can give "eternal life". Our eternal life is stated in Colossians 3:1-4 and Hebrews 12.....SHOWING TWO WITNESSES HERE , as I don't need the witnesses of men...or SDA's soul sleep doctrine, or Trav nonsense either.
Neither Trav or Jerry have the witness of CHRIST IN THEM.....Where this eternal life is ETERNAL...
So why do I need their witness?
Trav loves to step in others mess ...like the saying...."FOOLS RUSH IN WHERE ANGELS FEAR TO TREAD". Proverbs 13:20
---kathr4453 on 6/21/21|
katr: You argue against the Bible. I'll go with God's word over yours.
---jerry6593 on 6/13/21
So many witnesses against her and no acknowledgement.
Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
---Trav on 6/20/21|
Note that none of that has happened yet. All of those are prophecies of the Millennium:
Ezekiel 37:13: God has not yet opened their graves and brought them out of them.
:22 God has not yet made them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, no longer two kingdoms, under one king.
:28 Gentiles do not "know that God sanctifies Israel". God's sanctuary is not "in the midst of them for evermore" (the old temple was destroyed, so not "evermore", and a new one has not been built yet.)
---StrongAxe on 6/19/21|
This is not about the New Covenant Trav. Pay attention.
---kathr4453 on 6/18/21|
24 to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/21
New Covenant mentioned above is found- Hebrews 8:8-10.
Marching on to the whole truth.
Eze 37:13 ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
Eze 37:22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:28And the gentile shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 6/17/21|
Here is a picture of Heaven RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK. It appears not only God and Jesus and Angels are there, but the spirits of just men made perfect. They were made PERFECT when Jesus rose from the dead. AND THE CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN.
Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come to MT SION ( aka heaven) and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
---kathr4453 on 6/17/21|
The saying is sure and worthy of full acceptance. For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
1 Timothy 4:9,10
---JS1234 on 6/16/21|
Here's a death we experience now, YET WE LIVE and will never face the second death.
ROMANS6: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. ( this has nothing to do with a physical death)
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more, death hath no more dominion over him.(OR THOSE IN CHRIST) 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
---kathr4453 on 6/16/21|
Jerry, Humans are born as we live and breath ARE DEAD IN TRESSPASSES AND SIN.
We, those IN CHRIST will not face a second death because we chose our second death in our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life.
Colossians 3:1-4 clearly say WE AS WE SPEAK ARE DEAD ...and our life is hidden in God with Christ.
Romans 6 speaks of death as well....a death where we are still living and breathing.
Then there is deceased...meaning our physical body , not our soul, ceases to exist.
God created Angels with a spirit that cannot die, and man after His image with a SOUL that cannot become deceased.
Jesus soul did not become extinguished upon His crucifixion . So why do you think ours does?
---kathr4453 on 6/15/21|
katr: your "nuances" will get you lost.
---jerry6593 on 6/15/21|
The ungodly shall stand in the final judgement as Rev clearly states and face A SECOND DEATH.
God judged Adam and Eve when they sinned, however God also covered them, ( animal skins ) representing the same covering SEE HEBREWS 10, until Jesus death and resurrection which did more than just cover year after year. Adam and Eve's faith in the promised redeemer saved them just as we who put our faith in Jesus Christ are SAVED TODAY.
Those ASLEEP IN THE LORD 1 Cor 15....
Rev 20:10 clearly say forever and forever. Hell was originally created for the fallen angels BEFORE TIME, BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD and is not subject to earths time clock.
---kathr4453 on 6/14/21|
Jerry are you saying Revelation is not God's word?
Like I said DEAD DEATH ETC has different nuances in scripture.
I'll take God's word too.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/21|
Isaiah 60:20 - Thy sun shall no more go down, neither shall thy moon withdraw it self: For the Lord shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy morning shall be ended,
( At the end of time the Celestial clock has stop, Does it still go on in lake of fire ? - Revelation 20:10 )
( When were Adam and Eve Judge By God ?)
B . At the end of time
Psalms 30:3 - O Lord, thou hast Brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, That I should not go down to the pit.
---RichardC on 6/13/21|
Revelation 10:6 - And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, Who created heaven. and the thing that therein are, and Earth and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, That there should be time no more,
Hebrews 9:27 - As it is appointed unto men once to die, But after this the judgment :
Psalms 1:5 - Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous .
Genesis 3:11 - And he said, Who told thee that thou was naked ? Hast thou eaten of the tree Whereof I commanded you not to eat,
---RichardC on 6/12/21|
katr: You argue against the Bible. I'll go with God's word over yours.
---jerry6593 on 6/13/21|
Roman's 7: 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
That's why in Romans 8 it states those who walk now in the spirit don't give way to the flesh.
Romans 7 is reiterating Romans 6..... Jesus Christ has delivered us from the body of this death by our identification with Him in death and resurrection life....I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. YET that experience, David denies over and over...yet claims to have this same experience in Romans 7, promoting sinless perfection, which says no such thing. Or claims to have THIS EXPERIENCE without first being born again.
---kathr4453 on 6/13/21|
Revelation 20: 6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, .....
10 ...... and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened:and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books,...
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: ...
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
---kathr4453 on 6/12/21|
Ecclesiastes 9:5 - For the living know that they shall die: But the dead know not any thing,Neither have any more a reward: For the memory of them is forgotten.
Isaiah 26:14 - They are dead, They shall not live: they are deceased, They shall not rise : Therefore hast visited them and destroyed them, and made all memory to perish,
John 3:36 -He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life , and he who believeth not the Son shall not see life: but the wrath of God abideth on him,
---RichardC on 6/11/21|
Jerry, the word die, dead, death in scripture have many meanings. Death for one is defined in scripture as being separated from God. We see in Luke the story of Abraham and Lazarus, Those dead physically, but their souls having gone to two different places...the righteous dead to Abraham's bosom, and the unrighteous dead to Hades, Sheol or let's say NOT ABRAHAMS BOSOM. They are aware of their surroundings, sufferings talking to one another. In parables Jerry REAL PEOPLE WITH REAL NAMES ARE NEVER USED. ...Acts 2:27-31.... you can't leave something that ceases to exist.
---kathr4453 on 6/10/21|
katr: "It's true that our soul never dies, so our soul is eternal."
NO, IT IS NOT TRUE!
Eze 18:4 ... the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16 WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto, whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
---jerry_6593 on 6/9/21|
Theresa, there is eternal damnation too. Matthew 25:41-46.
So some will go into eternal damnation, and others into eternal life. So in scripture " eternal LIFE " means being saved from eternal damnation. So no, the damned are not given eternal life too. It's true that our soul never dies, so our soul is eternal. But it's where the soul ends up that matters. Eternal life means heaven, eternal damnation means hell. I believe scripture supports this definition.
John 3:16 for one...
---kathr4453 on 6/3/21|
1 Peter 4:18 - And the righteous scarcely be saved, Where shall the ungodly and sinner appear.
Mathew 7:13 - Enter ye the strait gate, For wide is the gate, and board is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mathew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leaders to life , And few there find it,
Luke 13:24 - Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many,I say unto you, will seek to enter in , and shall not be able.
---RichardC on 6/2/21|
John 8:51 - Verily verily, I say unto you , If you keep my saying, he shall never see death.
Ezekiel 18:21 - But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep my statutes , and do that is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were case into the lake fire, This is the second death.
Mathew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, But are not able to kill the soul : But rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell,
---Richardc on 6/1/21|
Therese, good point.
Jesus came I to the world to save the human race. I am quite sure he will accomplish that completely.
"Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out, and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.
---JS1234 on 5/31/21|