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Who Are The Children Of Promise

Who are the Children of Promise
Romans 9: 7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

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 ---kathr4453 on 7/7/21
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Trav:
You have NEVER posted ANY scripture that shows that the "Nth house" accepted Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 7/21/21

It has been posted continually you have not seen or heard it.
Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?

Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray, we have turned every one to his own way, and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
---Trav on 7/24/21


Ruben:

You asked: So where will our works go thru fire?

Hebrews 9:27 says:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

We live our lives, and once we die, our lives are judged by God.

There are many places in scripture that talk about people being rewarded according to their works. (One's works cannot be properly judged until they are complete.)

Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

Also Jeremiah 25:14, Proverbs 24:12, 2 Corinthians 11:15, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 20:12-13
---StrongAxe on 7/25/21


We're given rewards for our works. Some will receive greater rewards than others. Only those done IN CHRIST WILL BE REWARDED. EPHESIANS 2:10. Selfrighteous self effort works will be burned up.


1 Cor 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble, Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire, and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/21


Ruben, All those IN CHRIST will have wood hay and stubble and gold silver and precious stone. It's possible that right now our works are being tried by fire as we ourselves are tried by fire. If what we do is Gods will and purpose Ephesians 2:10, we shall come forth AS GOLD, as even Job stated during his trial and testing of faith. JOB 23:10 .

Abraham was also tested when God asked him to sacrifice Isaac... So I believe the testing of our faith as James shows is what FAITH WITH WORKS is about. Hebrews 11 also give this same list of faith with works. It's obedience to God no matter what the suffering or consequences.
---kathr4454 on 7/25/21


1 Corinthians 3:8-15 talks about our works being judged by fire.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

I.e. people who are saved, yet their disobedient works are destroyed by fire.
---StrongAxe on 7/23/21

Question:

Where does this cleansing take place,

1 Cor 3:13 " the work of each will come to light, for the Day will disclose it."

It can not be Heaven, Rev 21:27 tell us "Nothing unclean enters heaven'

And of course it not hell!

So where will our works go thru fire?
---Ruben on 7/24/21




Now I understand where he comes up with the false accusations he extrapolated out of my posts. I guess that's a clever way one thinks they can manipulate another. The YES OR NO only demand or saying "anything else is of the devil", is also manipulation.

We simply put out the truth of scripture and one can believe or not. When others try to force their beliefs on you, RUN. FAITH is something beyond human reasoning. Example. No one can possibly reason parting the Red Sea. Moses simply put his faith in God that God would do what He promised. If Moses tried to reason it out there would be no living Jews today.

If you don't Believe in Gods promises that's on you. Not all men have FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 7/24/21


James 2:20, 26 makes clear that good works are a result of salvation not its cause. So good works are the fruit of salvation, not the root of salvation. This is Romans 7, God wants FRUIT out of a saved life. Some will bring forth 30% some 70% some 100 % . So we're not saved by our fruit. But fruit comes from those who's branches are attached to the vine. Jesus is the vine..the life force.

Hebrews 9:17 is also an awesome verse. Through the blood of Jesus our conscience has been purged from dead works to serve the living God. So DEAD WORKS must be all works apart from CHRIST IN YOU. And those who the Blood of Jesus has purged and cleansed ARE SAVED NOW. God has saved us so HIS GLORY CAN BE SEEN IN US.
---kathr4453 on 7/23/21


David:

Extrapolation can sometimes be dangerous, as it relies on subjective thinking, which may be wrong. Many (including some here) are like Superman, leaping over tall buildings to incorrect conclusions. Many cults result from one person extrapolating an entire bizarre theology by incorrectly extrapolating one verse.

You have it reversed. Obedience doesn't free us from sin. Freedom from slavery to sin enables us to obey.

1 Corinthians 3:8-15 talks about our works being judged by fire.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

I.e. people who are saved, yet their disobedient works are destroyed by fire.
---StrongAxe on 7/23/21


(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---David on 7/21/21

(From the heart above delivered to you)You do your namesake proud.

Heb 8:10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Heb 8:12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
---Trav on 7/23/21


Jesus frees us from sin. Our death with Jesus is what frees the old man from sin. The verse says that THOSE ALIVE FROM THE DEAD surrender their RISEN WITH CHRIST MEMBERS to righteousness.

It's what DAVID LEAVES OUT that is what is glaring heresy.vs 17 BUT GOD BE THANKED...
Verse 18. Being then made FREE FRIM SIN. YE BECAME THE SERVANTS Of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Ye became means it happened.
It's all included in the Promised we see CLEARLY in Hebrews 13:20-21. God working in us to will and do of his good pleasure.

God has it all covered David. GOD BE THANKED. We can see clearly what Paul teaches. It is not what you teach. We don't need your commentary. We only need the Holy Spirit to teach this truth.
---kathr4453 on 7/23/21




I never said "obedience is not required". I said that we aren't SAVED by obedience. These are two totally different things.
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
You say many things without realizing what you are actually saying. Though you dont actually say them, they are easy to extrapolate from what you have said.

For example your quote above.
You infer, freedom from sin is obtained through obedience to righteousness. Then you say, obedience does not save you, when salvation is exactly that, being freed from sin. This is how you know when you have been born again.
---David on 7/23/21


David:

You wrote: and yet you say obedience is not required to be a slave of righteousness. How did you become a slave of righteousness without obedience?

I don't understand why you (and Trav) keep putting words in my mouth that I never said.

I never said "obedience is not required". I said that we aren't SAVED by obedience. These are two totally different things.
---StrongAxe on 7/22/21


There's no scripture that state "the lost sheep" are the Nth House scattered. Lost sheep is not lost tribes. The lost sheep are clearly stated as those who have gone astray., clearly stated in Isaiah 53:6 reiterated in 1st Peter 2:25.

If perhaps one actually read this all of Isaiah 53, it's talking about the Messiah who died for our sin to bring us back.....NOW, if that were to the Nth house ONLY...then Jesus only died for the Nth house ONLY. WRONG.

PETER again reiterates this same prophecy in 1 Peter 2:25, that by HIS STRIPES we are healed. AKA SAVED GIVEN ETERNAL LIFE ......not 10 tribes now found scattered among the Nations. HE ADDRESSED ALL 12 TRIBES.

Some teach nonsense who don't know scripture. BEWARE!
---kathr4453 on 7/22/21


Also David I believe Romans 6:1-15 answer what verses 16-17 are about.

When you watch a movie, do you start in the middle and just make up the beginning , or do you go back to see how it began. Paul said we DIED To sin and are no longer servants of Sin. Only those IN CHRIST have died to sin. Is this the verse you don't grasp... Being baptized into His death? We DIED to sin when we were baptized into His death as we also died with Christ.

And it appears in Chapter 7 God wants us to bring forth FRUIT, not works. The FRUIT COMES from CHRIST IN YOU. JOHN 15 MAKE THAT CLEAR.

Why won't you address those verses? You never have ...why is that?
---kathr4453 on 7/21/21


(Romans 6:16) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

StrongAxe
We were all born slaves of sin. Paul says above, obedience to righteousness will cause us to become slaves of righteousness.

You claim to be a slave of righteousness, and yet you say obedience is not required to be a slave of righteousness. How did you become a slave of righteousness without obedience?
---David on 7/22/21


The penalty for sin is death. Jesus paid the penalty for sin. He died in our place. This is what salvation is all about. JESUS SAVES. So those who receive Jesus Christ following Him into death and resurrection life is what salvation is all about. This is why Jesus was made flesh in the first place.

Those raised up a new Creature in the RISEN CHRIST die no more. We are given eternal life. Yes our fleshly bodies will go back to dust, but our soul and spirit are eternal. And we will ALWAYS be with the Lord. Jesus is that LIFE GIVING SPIRIT.

So this idea having the Holy Spirit is not being born again is also false doctrine. Our spirit witnesses with God's Spirit that WE ARE THE SONS OF GOD.
***Romans 8:14 -16
***Galatians 4:6.
---kathr4454 on 7/22/21


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Trav:
We were talking ..


You have NEVER posted ANY scripture that shows that the "Nth house" accepted Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 7/21/21

You were talking which seems to affect you ability to hear. Lets review, prophets of Israel to Israel only count in OT you state. Even though Christ fulfilled their prophecy. Lost Sheep are the Nth House scattered. To be found but, you imply Prophets Christ, and Apostles failed in this. (Mainly because you are indocd and will have to admit two houses exist and youve defended the indefensible. Embarrassing but, truth is better than ignorance.
There is possibility you may never see or hear. I see that you see things you never considered. Just too embarrassed to man up.
---Trav on 7/22/21


David the obedience of that form of doctrine delivered unto us is THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS. This OBEDIENCE is the obedience OF FAITH. Read how Paul finishes AKA SUMMARIZES the whole letter of Romans . That SUMMARY, IS STATED IN ROMANS 16:24-27. So every word of Romans from chapter 1 to the end is SUMMARIZED in Romans 16.

Obedience of faith according to the MYSTERY....THE MYSTERY IS CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY. Colossians 1:24-27.

It's all so simply stated in scripture.

Do you know how the different parts of a letter is constructed? That is what all epistles are.,LETTERS TO THE CHURCH.

SALUTATIONS
SUBJECT
BODY
CONCLUSION,OR SUMMARY
ENDING

ITS NOT something one cherry picks.
---kathr4453 on 7/21/21


David:

As I have said earlier, when we are saved, we are freed from SLAVERY to sin. Sin no longer RULES our lives. This does not mean that we are incapable of it, just that we're no longer bound by it. Per 1 John 1, if we do occasionally sin, God forgives us. This does not mean that we should sin habitually (Paul dealt with this elsewhere, and sadly, there are many Christians that don't get this, feeling free to sin as they please, and using prayer and confession as a magic "get out of consequences and guilt free" card to let them get away with anything.)
---StrongAxe on 7/21/21


Trav:

We were talking about Paul's conversion, so I would have expected that with your abundant knowledge of scripture, you would have the sense to read the part of Acts that actually deals with that, but I guess I needed to be more specific. Sigh. Acts 9.

Act 1:16Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, - - -
One doesnt have to go very far in acts to find who is being spoke too.


OT scripture was written by and about and to descendents of Israel. Acts 1:16 SPECIFICALLY referred to Pentecost, as only Jesus' apostles and other disciples were present (who were mostly, if not all, Jews).

You have NEVER posted ANY scripture that shows that the "Nth house" accepted Jesus.
---StrongAxe on 7/21/21


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StrongAxe
In case you didnt understand, my last comment was the answer to your question about how Works plays a role in salvation.

Now my question for you. In the passage below, does Paul say it is obedience which frees us from sin, Yes or No?

(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

If you answer it honestly, you will See..Paul is teaching what I am teaching.
---David on 7/21/21


Strongaxe, I dont believe Trav has read Acts, any of it for that matter. He seems to think EVERY JEW Israel Nth House from Pentecost to today has been personally struck down by the Lord Himself, and blinded with Jesus saying "Paul Paul WHY ARE YOU PERSECUTING ME? Funny many Jews after Pauls's conversion tried to kill him for converting to Christianity.

I actually don't think Trav has a REAL Bible. one with the ENTIRE word of God in it. Just a book of selected scriptures.

Funny even today Jewish families denounce family members who have become Christians or marry Christians. I bet Trav never saw Fiddler on the Roof either.

Ignorance is not bliss here. its dangerous.
.
---kathr4453 on 7/21/21


David, IF YOU after knowing all that has been stated choose to try to earn eternal life through WORKS, that's on you. THAT IS your choice. Why then are you forcing others to choose YOUR WAY?

Many of us CHOOSE JESUS CHRIST Himself and all those promises BY FAITH IN HIM AND OF HIM, where we not only Receive Jesus Christ as our very live BUT ALSO are created UNTO good works God has decided before that we should walk in., I CHOOSE THOSE WORKS...they are a sure thing.

Yours however are not. Why? Because they will always weigh in the balance of those works IN CHRIST and will come up short. Why not Have Christ AND HIS WORKS working through us?
---kathr4454 on 7/21/21


John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

I believe all men here mean exactly that. It doesn't say the chosen or the elect only or all Jews or all Israel. It says all men.

David, you evaded my question. But since you answered as you did, it sounds like you started another denomination all by yourself. Not a good thing since we are to come together as a church. Looking at Corinthians , I don't see your philosophy. Paul worked with these newly converts to be of one mind and one accord, and did not make your suggestion of being a loner.

The early disciples or followers did come together as a church.
---Samuel on 7/21/21


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Trav:
Read Acts.
Most of us don't receive as personal an "invitation".
---StrongAxe on 7/19/21

Act 1:16Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, - - -
One doesnt have to go very far in acts to find who is being spoke too.

You make it hard for yourself trying to find loopholes. In scripture and with anything anyone says. I post scripture no one talks about, preaches or teaches for a reason. Those i just mentioned. It is really amazing in this day and age of communication. Unexpected is the vehemence that these specific scriptures arouse.
Christ and Apostles recognize it, having lived it.
---Trav on 7/19/21


StrongAxe
Why did Paul teach, God will reward Goods Works with Eternal Life in (Romans 2: 5-13). Notice, this teaching contradicts Pauls teaching of, Not by Works, but by Grace.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?
The answer is in what motivates our obedience. We do not live in obedience to God because we want to be saved, we live in obedience to God, because we Love Him.

Jesus taught this (John 14:21), Paul taught this, and all of the Lords disciples taught this. If I am rebuked because I teach what they taught, do you not rebuke them too?
---David on 7/20/21


Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God does the calling and drawing, but one can resist that draw and CAN INSULT the Spirit of Grace. No one can come to the Father except THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

God Draws us to HIMSELF through the Gospel of Salvation proclaiming those who believe in His SON will have everlasting life. The Father Son and Holy Spirit are ONE in TRUTH and purpose. The Holy Spirit points to Jesus Christ as the FATHER DOES THE DRAWING. But check out Hebrews 6....one can be enlightened of Truth, and still reject. Being enlightened by the Holy Spirit is not being Indwelt with the Holy Spirit. The WORD OF GOD is living and powerful....
---kathr4453 on 7/20/21


They both reject scripture not us.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/21

Scripture? Nah.
I reject your misunderstanding of scripture and you as a person. Christian doesnt fit your description. False does. False witness. False gifts. False teacher. False judean. Because these you revel in I dust my feet of ya.

Num 23:9For from the top of the rocks I see him, and from the hills I behold him: lo, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations.

Num 23:10Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous, and let my last end be like his!
---Trav on 7/20/21


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Who are the Children of Promise
--on 7/7/21

Someone asked.. Scripture answers with multiple witnesses.

Act 13:23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Act 13:24When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Heb 9:15 for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Rom 9:4Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises,
---Trav on 7/20/21


Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.


Acts 7:51....ye stiffed necked and uncircumcised in the heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit, as your father's did so do ye.

Both these verses are addressing GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE ISRAEL.

It looks to me they rejected THE CALL.

SO who do you believe, Trav and David...OR GOD?

It's not Trav and David vs Strongaxe and kathr....as these trolls keep saying.

They both reject scripture not us.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/21


There's a vast difference between Trav doctrine and Davids, David refusing to address. Trav doctrine has God choosing Israel regardless of obedience of faith or faith in Jesus. David insists God only chooses sinless folks, and it's to non Jews/Israel as well. Trav doesn't curse David over this but he does others who state salvation is open to all. How these two don't insult one another is beyond me.

Both will answer back with insults to avoid answering this obviously glaring contradiction. Why, because as long as they have in common(( the only thing in common... bashing me and Strongaxe, )) they think that's ok with God. That in itself shows both here are TROLLS trafficking in the gospel so they can glory in your flesh.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/21


David:

By rejecting anyone who is in a denomination, by saying that your way of following Christ is better than theirs, aren't YOU guilty of exactly the same kind of "dividing Christ" that you accuse them of?

To your question: God chooses whom to call to him, but they have the choice whether to accept or reject that call.


Trav:

Read Acts. Saul actively opposed the church. He only stopped because Jesus literally used divine intervention to tell him to stop. Yes, Saul had to agree, but he didn't have much choice. Most of us don't receive as personal an "invitation".
---StrongAxe on 7/19/21


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Signs of a cult leader.

Doctrines of Armstrongism

Authority
Herbert W. Armstrong taught that the Bible was a divinely inspired book and the authoritative Word of God. However, he taught that the key to interpreting it had been obscured by God until these last days when he, by divine inspiration, discovered it. Thus, Armstrong regarded himself as the only legitimate interpreter of Scripture and his movement as the only true church of God. Armstrongs books and pamphlets are still distributed by Armstrongist groups and are regarded as authoritative.
---kathr4454 on 7/19/21


StrongAxe
I answered your question, but you didnt answer mine. Answer mine, then I will answer yours.

Salvation, In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?
---David on 7/16/21


Samuel
I just noticed your question. What denomination am I? I just call myself a follower of Jesus Christ, like they do in the Bible. Do you see any of the doctrines you mentioned in the Bible?

The reason you dont see them, is because these man made doctrines cause division. If everyone simply called themselves a follower of Christ, would there be this division in the church?
---David on 7/19/21


David claims having the Holy Spirit is not our Born Again Spirit. Well THIS IS THE SPIRIT GOD GAVE ME . Maybe David was given another spirit, I don't know, but the Spirit God gave me is described below. And this is how GOD'S SPIRIT works in me.

Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
---kathr4453 on 7/19/21


In particular, Paul himself specifically opposed Christ. Jesus had to drag him in, kicking and screaming.
---StrongAxe on 7/18/21

GOD chooses you say. You also stated another time that man can choose. You want it both ways. GOD Chose Israel but you object kicking and screaming. But show above that he the son of GOD did choose again a man of Israel.

Joh 1:31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
---Trav on 7/19/21


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Salvation is to all who put their faith in Jesus Christ.

Also note David it's OBEDIENCE OF FAITH. ROMANS 16:24-27, not obedience to the law. Faith is not of WORKS. Ephesians 2:8-9.

But faith without obedience/works is dead... So just obedience/works alone is also dead. Just read HEB 4 those who lacked faith.

You just don't give up David. You simply do not believe the scriptures. Your PRIDE wants to boast in its own salvation ROBBING GOD AND JESUS CHRIST of their SAVING GRACE.

God is not choosing those who are sinless. Paul was chosen while he was a murderer. SO no scripture supports your nonsense. David, were you in Special Ed at school? Or did you take over to the class telling everyone YOU can do it better?
---kathr4453 on 7/18/21


David:

You wrote: God chooses who will be saved. This decision is made through our obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, those which we receive through the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Our hearts are changed, changed through our obedience to the Lords commandments.

God chooses to save us because we keep his commandments? Because we deserve to be saved? This is basically just salvation by works. Paul very specically rejected this:

Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast


In particular, Paul himself specifically opposed Christ. Jesus had to drag him in, kicking and screaming.
---StrongAxe on 7/18/21


Kathrine
God chooses who will be saved. This decision is made through our obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, those which we receive through the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Our hearts are changed, changed through our obedience to the Lords commandments.

His commandments are not difficult to keep. God wanted to give mankind laws, laws every man can keep, so they have no excuse.
Every commandment given to us though the Holy Spirit, is done out of our Love. But, you must be in the light to receive these commandments. And this is why I advocate daily confession of sin.

If you have two coats, is it difficult to give one to someone who doesnt have a coat?
---David on 7/18/21


This is the way God wants it done. THIS IS WHAT I OBEY.

1) Romans 8:11-14. It's only through the Spirit that MORTIFIES ( aka puts to death) the deeds of the body re flesh...2) ....ALWAYS BEARING ABOUT IN OUR BODY THE DYING OF CHRIST THAT THE LIFE OF CHRIST IS MANIFEST IN US. 2 Corinthians 4:10

3) Philippians 3...4) Colossians 2-3....

And try again 5) 1st Peter 4....."those who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin that we live the rest of our lives to the will of God"

ALL THESE VERSES are witnesses to this same truth to those IN CHRIST.

Don't knock it until you've tried it. And if you knock it you are calling God a liar. I'm testifying to the truth. STOP CALLING GOD A LIAR
---kathr4453 on 7/18/21


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Our love for the Father and His love shed abroad in our hearts when we are saved is what sustained us through the most enduring trials that test our faith. Job's wife said... 'Just curse God and die'. This love Romans 5 are to those IN CHRIST ALREADY.

I wonder how your love might wain if you were tried like Job.

You are using love alone, but it's FAITH that works through LOVE. Galatians 5:6: Not love working through love.

You continually leave out Faith too.

And you are saying your own human love is enough??? You seem to be saying before salvation your own human love can achieve sinlessness.
---kathr4454 on 7/18/21


David, you are not understanding Romans 6-8. Our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life is the only way one dies to sin. I DIE DAILY, so says Paul.

So no dear, I don't have it sideways. It's you who think the preaching of the cross is foolishness. The preaching of the cross David IS ALSO our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life.

Why do you continually argue against Romans 6-8 and reject, trying to replace with your own doctrine? Oh, I know ...you don't have faith. You have works instead. I have faith and IT WORKS BEAUTIFULLY.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/21


Kathrine
You almost got it, but understandably you have it a bit sideways. It is Our loving obedience to God which leads us to sinlessness. It is our continuous love for God, which causes the death of the Old Man.

(Romans 6:16) Know you not that to whomever you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you become whom you obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness


(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
---David on 7/17/21


Ruben and David both believe salvation comes in STAGES. John as well as Paul teach the stages are of MATURITY, NOT SALVATION.
1)Children ( those WHO KNOW THEIR SINS ARE FORGIVEN)
2) young men, who have overcome the Evil one ....re "Satan". And is not saying we overcome sin
3) FATHERS , as Paul said he was....those of maturity who can teach others because they KNOW THE FATHER.

John in 1st John is writing to SAVED CHRISTIANS THAT THEY MAY KNOW RIGHT NOW THEY ARE SAVED.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
---kathr4453 on 7/17/21


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Davids doctrine teaches God chooses ( saves) only those who have achieved sinless perfection on their own. Paul was CHOSEN TO BE AN APOSTLE. Romans 8:30....those who are called, He has also Justified and Glorified. I see no order of CALLED then maybe Chosen then Justified then Glorified.

But not everyone is CHOSEN TO BE AN APOSTLE, Or the 144000 chosen among Israel....for a special purpose....it doesn't mean chosen for salvation.

Salvation is WHOSOEVER WILL. Or else why would anyone be ASKED to repent? David mixes JW, MORMON, CALVINISM, RCC, CHURCH OF GOD all together and has no discernment how to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

We are SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH. Not by works in hopes to be chosen. YIKES.
---kathr4453 on 7/16/21


Chosen can mean different things in scripture. Israel is God's chosen people, but many of His chosen don't even believe in God or Jesus. Timothy was chosen to be a good soldier.

144000 will be chosen out if Israel for service ...

Many scriptures in the NT only refer to those saved as CALLED. THOSE HE CALLED HE JUSTIFIED AND GLORIFIED. ROMANS 8:30.

WERE CALLED TO BE SAINTS. NOT CALLED TO BE CHOSEN so that we can BE SAINTS. 1st Corinthians 1:2. Beware of those who add their own theories to scripture.
---kathr4454 on 7/16/21


I think David is an amazing person. By his own admission, he never sins.
---JS1234 on 7/16/21


1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

We are born of God the moment we receive Jesus Christ. John 1:12 Only those Born of God can die to sin and the flesh. The flesh can not cast out the flesh. All our efforts are as filthy rages in God's sight.

David, what church do you attend? You continually attack Protestants, so I take it you are not Protestant . There are many different Protestant sects though, and not all agree with each other. You don't distinguish any particular denomination. Protestant means to protest Catholocism. Is this why ? What's left ? Catholic, Mormon, or Jehovah Witness?
---Samuel on 7/16/21


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Ruben:

"Confessing" a sin means to openly declare that you have committed the sin. Penitents who are truly sorry for committing the sin repent and confess. Proud, boastful, and arrogant sinners also openly declare that they committed the sin, so that could also be considered "confession", but they do it out of pride, not repentance.

What counts is repentance - i.e. regret that one has committed the sin, and the desire to stop doing so.


David:

Incorrect. Carefully read how 1+2+3 John and Jude were addressed. These are all letters written to *existing* churches, not to new converts.
---StrongAxe on 7/16/21


kathr4453* Confessing sin is not salvation.

Are you sure about this?

"will forgive our sins and cleanse us from every wrongdoing." IF"

kathr4453 *Confessing sin is not salvation....( The unsaved don't confess sins)

Why should they if confessing our sins does nothing to you!

kathr4453* maybe your are Catholic. And that still doesn't guarantee salvation.

Being saved is not a one- time event:

past: Romans 8:24 " " For in hope we WERE saved."

present: 2 Cor. 2:15 For we are the aroma of Christ for God among those who are BEING saved.."

Future: 1 Cor 3:12-15 " " The person Will be saved, but only as through fire."
---Ruben on 7/15/21


StrongAxe
When the few argue against the many, and you can only answer one or two questions, then get many more questions, its very hard to answer all of them.

Here is your answer,
The letter was not written to Christians, who had been saved, it was written to those who are being saved, those who have not been born of God. It was written to the many who are called, those who have not yet been chosen.

The protestants believe it is their decision to be saved, not Gods. In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?
---David on 7/16/21


2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.<2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways, by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

when David rejects the doctrines of Romans 6-8. Re the doctrine of THE CROSS, he is the one who the way if truth is evil spoken of.

SIN is not JUST the 10 commandments. SELFRIGHTEOUSNESS is sin. And David also claims he has the ability to decide whether another is sinless....ONLY GOD CAN SEE ONES HEART. ITS SIN TO THINK YOU ARE EQUAL TO GOD.
---kathr4453 on 7/15/21


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David:

I keep asking you what you make of 1 John 1:8-10, yet I don't recall you ever answering. Why not?

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


This letter was written to already-saved Christians. How do you reconcile the fact that you are perfect, and even they were not? Note that your claim of sinlessness, according to John, means the truth, and His word, are not in you.
---StrongAxe on 7/15/21


David wants to take the word SERVE sin and twist it to say COMMIT sin. There is a difference and one needs to watch words carefully and not twist scripture out if context. As one cannot COMMIT Righteousness. Again those who SERVE God in righteousness are those who are IN CHRIST who is our righteousness. We are the righteousness of Christ. ****1st Corinthians 1:30.**"*

This is what David doesn't believe because he doesn't understand it.

Ist John is written to Christians. To those already saved. Confessing sin is not salvation. FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST IS SALVATION. He IS FAITHFUL AND JUST because we are HIS. The unsaved don't confess sin... Unless maybe your are Catholic. And that still doesn't guarantee salvation.
---kathr4453 on 7/14/21


StrongAxe
Yes to the first question
No to the second.
---David on 7/15/21


Romans 6:16 know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey, whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
This does not teach what David teaches. I've pointed this out to David over and over and he just doesn't understand it.

Those who do not believe in God or Jesus haven't yielded themselves unto God as those ALIVE FROM THE DEAD in the first place and neither has David..WHY? Because they have never been crucified with Christ where the power of sin has been destroyed. And David hasn't experienced this either. He believes one has to achieve sinless perfection on their on. AND THEN they become born again. David speaks with forked tongue and contradicts himself.
---kathr4453 on 7/14/21


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NO!

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
---kathr4453 on 7/14/21


David:

Before you can expect others answer your questions, you have yet to answer two questions that were asked of you, namely:

1) Do you know of any Christians who have never sinned, even once, in their entire lives, since they came to Christ? If so, who are they?

and

2) Have you never sinned, even once, in your entire life, since you came to Christ?
---StrongAxe on 7/14/21


Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no. Anything else is of the devil..
---JS1234 on 7/14/21


Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is why I believe so many who believe they follow Christ, actually follow the doctrine of demons. Because of this one unpardonable sin, God has closed your eyes to the Truth.

This is the power of the Yes and No questions, and why I ask them. Because when they are answered truthfully, with a simple yes or no and nothing more, the veil is removed and Satan is kept at bay, so you can see the Truth.

Here is a test question, to illustrate.
Do you serve God when you sin? Yes or No?
Remember, anything more comes from the evil one.
---David on 7/14/21


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Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, ...Jesus was rebuking the Pharisees when they accused Jesus of having a demon when he did miracles. That particular blasphemy cannot be Reenacted today, because Jesus is not on earth today. And it's the WOF Charismatic folks telling people that if people don't believe their miracles ( of which many are phony..fake healings etc like the Benny Hinn crowd) they scare people telling them they are blaspheming the Holy Spirit keeping those poor folks in bondage.

Here is the ONLY UNFORGIVABLE SIN TODAY...JOHN 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him.

This also includes Jews today Trav.
---kathr4453 on 7/14/21


Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is blatant opposition to the TRUTH, because the Spirit is TRUTH. Jesus said My words are SPIRIT AND TRUTH.

So yes, to deny the Deity of Christ is exactly blasphemy of the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit does not speak of Himself but of Jesus Christ and TESTIFIES OF JESUS CHRIST.

Just making up what you want and saying that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is not what Scripture teaches. It's INSULTING THE SPIRIT OF GRACE just as Hebrews 10 state. They will face God's vengeance.
---kathr4454 on 7/13/21


This verse does not say what David TEACHES. I have NEVER SPOKEN AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT...EVER. HOWEVER David's denial of Romans 6-8 just may. Seeing ALL MANNER OF SIN WILL BE FORGIVEN, then sin itself IS FORGIVEN.

David's doctrine is heresy.

Matthew 12:31-32
Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
---kathr4454 on 7/13/21


David:

Blasphemy against the Holy Spririt is the ONLY unforgivable sin. Be careful when throwing around such accusations.

1 John 1:8-10:
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

was written to BELIEVERS - who still sinned.

In Christ, we are no longer SLAVES to sin, not that we are incapable of it.

Do you know any Christians anywhere who, after coming to Christ, have never ever sinned for the rest of their lives, not even once? I don't recall ever meeting such a person.
---StrongAxe on 7/13/21


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David, do you never sin anymore? If so, you're quite amazing.
---JS1234 on 7/13/21


Yes, I believe Trav is wrong on this point. But his belief does not fall into the category of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as does yours. .
---David on 7/13/21

The difference between you and I which does not totally divide us is the willingness to search scripture upon scripture. I dont think you are wrong, maybe just unaware of some scriptural tie ins.
Explain your take on this point above ill look at it.
Kat is just blissfully ignorant on the entire concept of the entire Bible. Then attempts to teach her version of confusion. She sure makes opportunity's to post scripture never discussed in broad way Churches though.
1Ki 6:13And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will not forsake my people Israel.
---Trav on 7/13/21


Kathrine
Yes, I believe Trav is wrong on this point. But his belief does not fall into the category of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as does yours.

According to what you believe and teach, those who have been born of Gods Holy Spirit, will sin, after after they have been born of the seed of God. This is full blown Blasphemy against Gods Holy Spirit.

When Trav blasphemes the Holy Spirit, then he will receive my rebuke.
---David on 7/13/21


The seed that overshadowed Mary was GOD, not Abraham. And that's not what Hebrews 2 means Trav, but there's zero reason to explain to you since you might think I'm teaching you....your fragile ego can't handle. But your comment warrants questions we can all ask ....

Do you deny the virgin birth of Mary? Do you deny Jesus was fully God fully man?

Would you say Jesus of the seed of Mary is because Mary was of the tribe of Judah, of the Nation of Israel, of the descendents of Jacob who was of the descendent of Abraham? Mary's geanology answer the question here.....and no scripture says God stored up Abrahams SPERMA to plant into Mary's womb. Then Jesus would only be a man. Nothing more.
---kathr4453 on 7/13/21


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So thus SPERMA is not just physical seed of men....
The sooner Trav understands this the better.
....Abraham in you is not THAT SEED.
---kathr4453 on 7/11/21

Heb 2:16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

1Ch 16:13O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.

Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Trav understands your doctrines desperation false one. Going against GOD. makes you special.
---Trav on 7/12/21


1 Timothy 5:22 David seeing you are partaker of Trav SIN, you are disqualified from teaching anyone about sin. You are steeped in sin.... And until you rebuke Trav saying there is only one seed and it's Abraham's BIOLOGICAL offspring .. if you can't see that as a lie, you have no business posting anything.

Rebuke Trav first before trying to school me. JS1234 and Richard are CORRECT. TRAV is saying the opposite .
---kathr4453 on 7/12/21


Kathrine
You finally got it!! I Couldnt be happier for you. It is those who are born of sin who commit sin, and those who are born of God, who do not commit sin. And this is exactly why one must be born again.

For those who have not been born of God, will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was very clear on this point. Sin is a sign, a sign for those who have not been born of the Spirit. An Obvious sign, yet many ignore it, claiming they have been born of the Holy Spirit.

When they make this claim, they are saying the seed of which they have been born, is evil, for sin is evil. This is what Jesus called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Does this sin exclude, those who do it in ignorance, from being born again? No!
---David on 7/12/21


1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Not seeds as of many but SEED who is Jesus Christ. Certainly Trav isn't claiming Abraham is God. Those BORN OF GOD are born again not by Abrahams spirit or Abrahams genetic earthly blood line.

So thus SPERMA is not just physical seed of men....

The sooner Trav understands this the better.

Christ in you is that SEED ....Abraham in you is not THAT SEED.
---kathr4453 on 7/11/21


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Galatians 3:29 - And if ye be in Christ's then are ye Abramam's seed, and heirs of according to the promise.

Gal 4:28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise now

Galatians 4:29 - But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirt , even so it is now.
---RichardC on 7/8/21

Exactly. Even the persecution brother.
Gal 4:5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Strongs #4690 Seed

sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687, somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male sprm), by implication offspring, specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.
---Trav on 7/11/21


We believers are of the true Seed of Abraham, the Children of Promise. That's the point the Apostle Paul is making.
---JS1234 on 7/8/21


Galatians 3:29 - And if ye be in Christ's then are ye Abramam's seed, and heirs of according to the promise.

Galatians 4:28 - Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of the promise,

Galatians 4:29 - But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the spirt , even so it is now.
---RichardC on 7/8/21


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