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Finish It Here July 27 2021

Finish it here July 27 2021

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 ---Ruben on 7/26/21
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David, no one is lying , only reiterating what you have already said. Yes no one can come to the Father except THROUGH Jesus Christ. You however say you can come to the Father by your own good works. Like Trav , you continually contradict yourself. Joseph Smith can make the same claim you have as any cult leader can, as well as any false teacher. Putting yourself on the same level as Jesus is because you don't believe in the Deity of Christ to begin with. You've been asked this over and over. You claim JW and Mormons belief that Jesus Is Michael the Arch-Angel is just fine with you.

So no, you will never measure up to Jesus especially if you don't believe one need first to be IN CHRIST to grow up into Him to maturity. Romans 6-8
---kathr4453 on 8/11/21


David, yes, arrogance for you to insist your path is the one true path.---Samuel

Samuel
Interesting
Jesus and I both believe his path is the one true path. Do you see Jesus as more arrogant or less arrogant than me, being that the teachings originated from him?

Jesus said unto him, I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.
John 14:6



Also, you and Kathrine can dispense with all the lies about me that you add on to your comments. Try fighting against Satan once and a while, and God may just bless you.
---David on 8/11/21


Trav:
, but ALSO those who love truth condemn those who tell lies.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21

So you condemn the verses I post as lies? Stop and think before you reply.
These verses are why we are right here, right now.
All these past years I made myself very clear, many times.
I post for who Christ and Apostles sought, the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel. I post scripture addressed to them and all Israel. My choice.
You stated I dont address others. I dont.
Paul could speak to both houses who were apart. I dont, you dont. You've stated that all Israel are jews.
Even when shown scriptural proof of two houses.
Upsetting you.
You prefer another venue. Your choice.
I prefer Israels.
---Trav on 8/11/21


Trav:

You say you stand with the 1%, but that is no proof of correctness. You claim 99% of Christians in the world today are heretics, and that, somehow, YOU ALONE have the truth? That kind of belief is delusional, and is exactly how every cult gets started.

Just because they call themselves jews doesnt make it so.

They can trace their ancestry back. They can take DNA tests to prove it. What evidence do you have that they are not? And what evidence do you have that the "Nth tribes" are anywhere specific? Care to offer up any DNA tests there?

Few find it.

True. But my point was that you claim that all Israel will be saved has already occurred, which is patently not true YET.
---StrongAxe on 8/11/21


The only imposter here is Trav.... A denomination of one deciding who is and isn't Jewish. Trav doesn't go by DNA but has his own theory of who is and who isn't. He doesn't even know his own identity.LOL. He thinks one has to know what tribe they came from first. LOL.

Trav is another here who makes me laugh out loud. He says Ivanka Trump Kushner is a Jew. Why? Because she practices Judaism? Because she turned her back on Christianity to practice Judaism ? So wouldn't that be true of all who practice Judaism? HOWEVER what silly Trav doesn't understand CHRISTIAN JEWS DONT PRACTICE JUDAISM. JEWS DO, OR PROSELYTES like Ivanka Kushner.

Oh what a tangled web he weaved when first he practiced to deceive. Toooooo funny. LOLAROTF
---kathr4453 on 8/11/21




Few find it.
---Trav on 8/10/21

Isn't this what Kathrine and Strongaxe have been saying from the beginning? If only few find it, all Israel is not saved, only the few that find it are, correct? Is Travis also saying all Jews have found it, or only a few Jews have found it? If he believes Salvation and the prophets address Israel only, the multitudes that don't find it have to be addressing only Israel too. I just don't understand Travis thinking. Is it argument for argument sake ?

If The New Covenant is to Israel guaranteeing salvation exclusively to them, what is there for them to have to find?

Travis, please enlighten us on exactly what the narrow path is for one of your Jews? Have you found it?
---Samuel on 8/11/21


There are currently more Jews (part of the biblical Israel) in NYC than modern Israel - .
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21

Your concern is touching.
You should ask yourself why there is a wide way.
Ill stand with all prophets and Christ safely. Forever.
You stand with the crowd 99%.. But, truly I regret it. I pointed, you turned to the crowd.

Just because they call themselves jews doesnt make it so. like an imposter we know here.
Mat 7:13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Few find it.
---Trav on 8/10/21


Trav:

Yes, telling the truth can be dangerous, but it isn't truth that kills you - it's ENEMIES of the truth that kill you for telling it.

But persecution alone isn't proof of truth. Yes, enemies of truth persecute those who tell the truth, but ALSO those who love truth condemn those who tell lies. When prophets in the Old Testament spoke lies, the people took them outside the city gates and stoned them to death. That didn't make them martyrs. Otherwise, that would make ALL criminals martyrs, which would be ridiculous.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21


Gosh, any cult leader can use that verse Trav just posted. I'm sure many have. Just plucking a verse out if context ( David is not Paul, nor is Trav) again means nothing here. Just posting that verse doesn't guarantee you are telling the truth. Those were Paul's words. Do you both have an identity crisis here too?

Works salvation is not the truth. Paul did not teach salvation by works. Paul taught Grace is a Gift from God, not if works best any man should boast. Tell us the last time you had to EARN A GIFT?

Again, the blind leading the blind ....
---kathr4453 on 8/10/21


If there is only one Truth and only one way, and someone is not on the narrow path, do you recommend we keep our mouths shut and let them go to hell, just so we don't sound arrogant?
---David on 8/10/21

Dangerous yes. The truth killed Christ and the Apostles. Some Prophets were despised by their own people thrown in pits.
Ironic isnt it what a Christian response you get in return telling the truth.
Give em lies they will love you and be your lil friends.

Gal 4:16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
---Trav on 8/10/21




Trav:

You posted multiple thousand year old prophecies, but NO evidence Israel ones (e.g. "Nth House would accept Christ" or "all Israel would be saved", or "they would be drawn out of all nations and return to Israel") have happened **YET**. I showed several that ALSO didn't happen yet (Jesus standing on Mt. of Olives, splitting it, all Israel mourning him like a firstborn son).

There are currently more Jews (part of the biblical Israel) in NYC than modern Israel - they have neither come to Christ, nor returned YET.

No, popular belief won't save me", but if you believe different than most other Christians, it would do you well to examine WHY 0.0001% got it right, and 99.9999% got it wrong.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21


All truth is established in the words of 2-3 witnesses, not one.
Your church of one is not biblically sound.
---StrongAxe on 8/9/21

Witnesses?
Ive posted hundreds that refute your posted opinions with no scripture.
You are embarrassed because your doctrines erode by these scriptures.
You cant and wont address these scriptures because they are specific about Israel.
Your Secret Church is what and who? Catholic, Orthodox? Satanic?
You are a scared lil Canadian guy who think popular belief/ wide way will save you.
Gen 17:7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
---Trav on 8/10/21


David, yes, arrogance for you to insist your path is the one true path. Especially when your path speaks nothing of The Person of Jesus Christ. Jesus has said many things you reject. You jump on one verse and use it to bully and abuse others who may find other verses just as important.

Seeing you admit you are a church of one, is alarming. All cult leaders started as a church of one. All thought more highly of themselves than they should have. You have all the markings of a cult leader.

It is assuring though to see your only follower here is Travis. Yet you have nothing doctrinally in common. You don't bully him. That's called having respect of persons for personal gain. Your ego.Your delusions have caused you to be prideful.
---Samuel on 8/10/21


David's first sentence back to Samuel is so arrogant. Seeing God did not call David to be an Apostle .. AKA A TRUTH BEARER , David is just one of billions of folks throwing their opinions into a ring. Even Paul whom God trusted with THE TRUTH, didn't come off so brash and arrogant. God NEVER asked us to force our beliefs on others and condemn them if they don't bow down and kiss our toe. YIKES.

David teaches ANOTHER GOSPEL. One of works , earning salvation by your own efforts. This is NOT THE FOUNDATION OF CHRIST.

The foundation of Jesus Christ is WE ARE SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH....NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST. Eph 2 . David boasts night and day....laughing in Gods face and thinks that's ok.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/21


Trav:

How do I "avoid" some scriptures? There are literally thousands in the Bible. It's impossible to deal with all. Like the following joke:

Mother gives son two sweaters, red and blue. She asks which he prefers. He says "I don't know, I like them both". "So pick one". "OK. I like the red one." "So why don't you like the blue one?!"

Yes, I KNOW some scriptures pertain only to Israel - I don't "take issue with those", and those don't "inflame me" - but there are many others that DON'T - they pertain to ALL nations. Why do YOU avoid THOSE?

You accuse ME of attacking, yet YOU constantly judge "my heart" for not agreeing with you 100%.
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21


I just take issue with your INTERPRETATIONS of them,
---StrongAxe on 8/9/21

I post scriptures you avoid. Your heart and doctrine insists you must avoid them. They are specific to Israel forever and everlasting You cant discuss them. As They do not pertain to you.
Ive interpreted nothing for you. it would be impossible. You neither see or hear them. When you do discuss, scripture finds your conjectured opinion false. Then you attack.
All scripture Ive posted has emphasis and meaning to one large group GOD chose. Ignore them and me, they are nothing to you.
I care nothing what you take issue with. Nothing.
I care and post what GOD and his prophets take issue with. Which inflames you. Which also marks you.
---Trav on 8/9/21


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Telling others to fix their own foundation because it doesn't agree with you or Travis is arrogance.---Samuel

Samuel
Never really thought about it before, but I guess someone who teaches the Truth could come off as arrogant, to someone who believes a lie.

If there is only one Truth and only one way, and someone is not on the narrow path, do you recommend we keep our mouths shut and let them go to hell, just so we don't sound arrogant?

And no, don't worry I am not Jesus. If I was, you would now be keenly aware you are not on the right path, and it would be to late for you to get on the right one. But you still have time, don't waste it.
---David on 8/10/21


1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

A careful reading of this verse states the foundation is already laid. So to be clear we don't lay the foundation....that has already been done. We build upon the foundation. Some will build wood hay and stubble, and some Gold Silver and precious stone. EACH BELIEVER is responsible how he builds upon it, and one day his works will be INDIVIDUALLY JUDGED AND REWARDED.

So let's be clear here, David, you build your thingy, and I'll build mine...AND GOD WILL JUDGE, NOT YOU.

Hint: the FOUNDATION is not Israel. It's Jesus. So Trav foundation is not THE FOUNDATION.
---kathr4453 on 8/10/21


David:

How is he not teaching it? He promotes it in most of his posts, and when anyone objects, he accuses them of rejecting scripture, putting his own interpretations on the same level. Disagreeing with Trav is NOT "laughing at Jesus".

In Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, tyrannical professor Delores Umbridge says: To question my practices is to question the Ministry, and by extension, the Minister himself. - i.e. she elevated herself to the same pedestal as the Minister.

When the Dixie Chicks criticized George W. Bush's foreign policy, they were accused of treason, as if criticizing the President equals disloyalty to the country. (The same critics said "not my president" to Obama.)
---StrongAxe on 8/10/21


I agree, the teaching is dangerous. But Trav isn't teaching it, he is only defending what he believes. Besides, our house is to be built according to the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the teachings of Trav.
---David on 8/9/21

First Trav has a strong foundation, then it's dangerous, then he's not teaching but we're not to build our house on Trav teaching?!?!?

Those on a solid foundation are not tossed about by every wind of doctrine that comes along.

AMEN SAMUEL, The only foundation is the PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST.

Stand alone verses can be manipulated and taken out of context. The GOSPEL is the preaching of the Cross. 1 Cor 1 17, 1 Cor 15:1-4. If we can't agree on this as the foundation we just won't agree.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/21


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David, I don't see Kathrine laughing at the teaching of Jesus Christ. I see she said you make her laugh out loud. Are you suggesting you are Jesus Christ? It sounds that way. This wouldn't be the first time you have made such an implication.

Telling others to fix their own foundation because it doesn't agree with you or Travis is arrogance. You need not only to fix yours David, but actually show one. A foundation is not built upon a single verse. The foundation is built upon the person of Jesus Christ. It's painfully obvious you don't know the difference between the two. Cults build on a verse, Christians build on Christ alone. You show no testimony of the power of the Cross at work within you. It appears to be foolishness to you.
---Samuel on 8/9/21


Trav:

Your beliefs are very similar to Armstrong's. Again, I am not "revolted" at your posted scriptures. I just take issue with your INTERPRETATIONS of them, because they disagree with what most Christians on the planet believe.

Christians are supposed to meet together and hold each other accountable, because without that, strange teachings and heresies creep in without anyone noticing.

Hebrews 10:25: don't forsake assembling together

2 Peter 1:20: no prophecy is of any private interpretation

Matthew 18:20: Jesus is there when 2-3 gather in his name

All truth is established in the words of 2-3 witnesses, not one.

Your church of one is not biblically sound.
---StrongAxe on 8/9/21


StrongAxe
I agree, the teaching is dangerous. But Trav isn't teaching it, he is only defending what he believes. Besides, our house is to be built according to the teachings of Jesus Christ, not the teachings of Trav.

Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock. (Matthew 7:24)

Kathrine
I knew you didn't take the teachings of Jesus Christ seriously, but I did not think you were so far from God you would laugh at his teachings.
---David on 8/9/21


Trav, seeing you both ( you and David ) confess to being lone wolves of one, denominations of one, which scripture NEVER SUPPORTS , we have nothing to worry about.

The BODY OF CHRIST is a body of believers of multitudes God has given GIFTS for the work on the ministry. Seeing you are not in this group, your ministry is nill and void. Those IN CHRIST all stand on the same foundation, CHRIST CRUCIFIED, and preach the same thing...CHRIST CRUCIFIED. 1 Cor 2:2 . Galatians 6. We all work towards the same goal...EPHESIANS 4....and we are ONE. We're Not tribes, not divided houses, NOT LONE WOLVES , BUT ONE IN CHRIST. The BODY also works together not against one another.

So i'm glad you finally revealed who you aren't.
---kathr4453 on 8/9/21


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Trav
When I look at the house you have built, I see a strong foundation and a house in need of a few shingles to fix the roof..
---David on 8/8/21

Ha.
Per the accusations and slander. I confess to be a working American Citizen, who belongs or is a member of no organization other than my own study.
In the last 45 years have never picked up a book or article of person axe accuses me of. No need.
I will look him up though sometime.

I am a cult of two. Me and my Lord, he is my leader.
Amazing the revulsion and lies that my posted scripture of prophets causes. But same types lied and falsely accused my Lord Jesus / Yahshua as well.
---Trav on 8/8/21


David:

Trav belives the northern tribes were scattered among the nations, that Jesus came to save ONLY Israel, and not other nations, that the great multitude saved from other nations is ONLY the bits of the northern tribes scattered there.

Herbert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God, pushed the "British Israel" theory: British people (Anglo Saxons everywhere) are the actual Northern Tribes of Israel, original heirs to the promise, and that according to biblical prophecy, have ALREADY been saved.

This doctrine is unorthodox, racist, and dangerous, and believed by no Christians except Wordwide Church of God cultists and white supremacists.
---StrongAxe on 8/8/21


Trav
When I look at the house you have built, I see a strong foundation and a house in need of a few shingles to fix the roof..
---David on 8/8/21

Ha for sure. Those drips keep me busy. But, Im thankful for them too. Keeps me in shape patching.
The Rock that established the foundation took 24 years to gather and carry quarry stamped. Cornerstone you have seen already. The house is tried tested, wolf proof and axe proof.

Isa 51:1Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged.

Eph 2:20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,
---Trav on 8/8/21


DAVIDPerhaps your ipinion here is just that, your opinion. And perhaps your opinion here means nothing to anyone but you. Perhaps others don't see Trav as having a strong foundation , as perhaps others see Armstrongism as a Cult. And Perhaps many don't see any CULT as having a strong foundation as you do, seeing perhaps many don't think your doctrine has a strong foundation either.

So before YOU criticize anyone's foundation, Perhaps you need to keep your opinion to yourself.

No one on line makes me laugh out loud more than you. Your arrogance is actually funny. Pride never sees itself as others see it.

The blind leading the blind holding up each other's crumbling foundation.....too funny. Beyond trolls.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/21


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Trav
To be clear
When I look at the house you have built, I see a strong foundation and a house in need of a few shingles to fix the roof. When I look at the house, StrongAxe and Kathrine have built, I see houses that have no foundation, houses the big bad wolf could easily blow in.

StrongAxe and Kathrine
Perhaps you two should rebuild your own houses before you instruct Trav on how to fix his.
---David on 8/8/21


Those broken off are the disbursed-scattered. Not all branches were broken off, only SOME. So the ones broken off are the scattered, and Judah, Benjamin and Levi are the ones NOT broken off. THEN we have the WILD AGAINST NATURE....a third entity...who are none of the above.

THE WILD AGAINST NATURE are those Paul talks about in Ephesians....those who were without God in the world and strangers to the CovenantS ( old and new )promised to Israel only .Eph 2:12. Israel was never without hope...seeing OT PROPHECY promised restoration. Those without would be HEATHENS, BARBARIANS ETC. HOWEVER these ARE brought near by the Blood of Jesus Christ, included in the EVERLASTING COVENANT that saved Abel, Noah etc. Galatians 3:8.
---kathr4454 on 8/8/21


Trav:
The wild olives are **all the other nations of the earth**.
---StrongAxe on 8/6/21

Opinions can be interesting but, just opinion. You go against Paul, Prophets and Christ.

Graff them in AGAIN. Natural Branches into THEIR OWN Olive Tree.

Rom 11:23 God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24- how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Olives are a seed. Israel is scattered like the seed can be scattered.
The scattered trees from the original seed are the same family. Grafting back no problem, with GOD.
Psa 44:11Thou hast given us like sheep appointed for meat, and hast scattered us among the gentiles.
---Trav on 8/8/21


Verses 23 and 24 are not talking about the wild olives.

Trav simply has not brought his 2 or more witnesses that the wild olives are Israel Jews Nth House and now we have an Sth House added?????YIKES ...where is that in scripture?
Just more double talk and nonsense coming from this bogus doctrine.

Only Trav doctrine can fool some of the people SOME OF THE TIME.

Still hasn't explained away HEATHENS. But Paul went to the HEATHENS and those saved are the wild grafted in.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/21


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The cultivated olive is clearly Israel.. The wild olives are **all the other nations of the earth**.
---StrongAxe on 8/6/21

Like a struggling lawyer wordy opinions but, no witnesses. There are none.
Worse in the face of Paul and the prophets you deny the authorized by Christ witness he brings. Note again where Paul states Again, natural branches, and their own
Rom 11:23 God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24- how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Wild Olives are the Olive Seed Scattered, dispersed.
There are two participants in this entire story, Nth House and Sth House.
Both are of Israel. Truth is a safer place to be found than untruth.
---Trav on 8/6/21


Do you graft Hickory, Oak or Lemons to olives. No.


Trav
We are all Noahs descendants, therefore we would be the same type of tree. The only difference is, God cultivated Abrahams tree, which left the rest of the olive trees to grow wild.
---David on 8/7/21


Carefully study the word AGAIN in Romans 11. Only those originally can be grafted in AGAIN. Notice those wild against nature were never there in the first place. So they are simply grafted in... NOT GRAFTED IN AGAIN.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/21


David:
How is this a "firm biblical foundation"?
---StrongAxe on 8/4/21

David considers and head notes that I post the prophets.
I post Christ who fulfilled the prophets.
The Apostles who were chosen by Christ.
All these feared and obeyed GOD. All these Honored GOD and his son.
David fears GOD.
Like me at 40. He just has not asked the only teacher to open his understanding yet.
Like a Berean he is looking to see.
He reminds me of the thief hanging with Christ, who was and is aware of Christ deity.
Some scoffers, attackers remind me of the other two.
---Trav on 8/7/21


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Trav:

The cultivated olive is clearly Israel. The cut off branches that will be restored are clearly the cut off parts of Israel that will eventually be restored. The wild olives are **all the other nations of the earth**. These were not part of the original plant, but could be added later.

God frequently chooses some people, and when they reject him, picks someone else. David over Saul. The wedding, where no invited guests came, so the groom invited all the poor. Israel who rejected Christ, so his message was expanded to include all other nations. (Israel is not permanently out - they will all come back IN THE FUTURE and be grafted back in.)
---StrongAxe on 8/6/21


Trav.
Do you graft branches which have fallen off a tree, back onto the Tree?
---David on 8/6/21

Do you graft Hickory, Oak or Lemons to olives. No. We dont do the grafting.
Paul explains: Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.
Rom 11:23 God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24- how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

Eze 37:17 And join them one to another into one stick, and they shall become one in thine hand.

It is harder to unlearn than learn. Truth scares the doctrines of men. These doctrines have no answers to the prophets so they avoid.
U have Observed here are the reactions to all Scriptures about Israel.
---Trav on 8/6/21


Trav
We all suffer from biases when reading the bible, a bias which becomes like a handrail when reading scripture. If our bias is based on Truth, it will lead us to our Salvation, if based on a Lie, to damnation.

Truth is also like a tree, a tree with strong roots, a thick trunk, with many branches. Your tree has roots, a trunk and many branches, but you are ignoring the branches God grafted onto the tree. They did not change the Truth, but are merely a part of the Truth.

Paul also talks about Grafted Branches. Do you graft branches which have fallen off a tree, back onto the Tree?
---David on 8/6/21


Trav
Who does this multitude represent?
---David on 8/4/21

In part:
Eze 37:22 I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
Eze 37:27 ,I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eze 37:28And the gentile shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 8/6/21


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What Trav can't do is explain away THE HEATHEN....clearly defined in the OT as those NOT ISRAEL JEWS NTH HOUSE.


Gal 1:16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Gal 2:9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship, that we should go unto the heathen,AKA THE UNCIRCUMCISED and they unto the circumcision.AKA ISRAEL JEWS NTH HOUSE.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
---kathr4453 on 8/6/21


Trav
As I see it, .
Who does this multitude represent?
---David on 8/4/21

How you see it is probably how you were led to see it. Was for me.
Foundation. I will
stand with all prophets who Christ came to fulfill.
Why search and question the unspecific? Stand with and for the specific which overwhelms unspecific misinterpretations of men.
Note below in 5:9 which states, by thy blood out of.
Rev 5:9 they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation,
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
---Trav on 8/5/21


Trav
But I also see many verses which directly support the idea of Gentile Salvation, which you appear to reject.
---David on 8/4/21

I only reject doctrine based on speculation.
If you are serious about absolute truth, start research on the unfortunate Latin Vulgate transliterated word gentile. It the source of most misunderstanding in NT scripture. The Latin noun gen does not mean nations it means a nation equivalent to ethnos.
Gentiles does not come from this noun but from an adjective, gentilis,and means belonging to a nation.
All of Pauls writings are to Israelites using ethnos for outcast kinsmen of Israel, and how the OT addresses them.
Christ, Apostles never uttered this latecomer word.
---Trav on 8/5/21


It's more then that Strongaxe. Trav claims nations tongues Gentiles etc are Israel or Nth House or Jews and ONLY they are saved and no one else .

I don't know how this can be a firm foundation either.
---kathr4453 on 8/5/21


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David:

Trav keeps insisting that the scriptures about "All Israel being saved" have already been fulfilled, despite clear evidence to the contrary. How is this a "firm biblical foundation"?
---StrongAxe on 8/4/21


Trav
As I see it, you are on a firm foundation and what you believe is firmly backed by the bible. But I also see many verses which directly support the idea of Gentile Salvation, which you appear to reject.

How do you see those passages?
For example, I see a clear delineation in (Revelation 7) between the complete restoration of the twelve tribes and....the great multitude in verse 9.

"a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and with palms in their hands."

Who does this multitude represent?
---David on 8/4/21


Is Trav claiming to be Jesus speaking to all here in parables? It sure sounds like it.

All of us are bringing 2 or more scriptures to show Trav is wrong in many places. He answers back in nonsense, not parables.

Trav need to bring 2 or more scriptures stating the 10 virgins are the 10 tribes. He didn't... Was called out on it, now wants to squirm out if it. Such silly games.

David made a great point.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/21


Trav
Just trying to keep you in check my friend, as you do with me.

The parable simply differentiates between the Wise virgins, those led by the Holy Spirit,.
---David on 8/2/21

Check me anytime brother. If available trough your study/ perspective bring 2 or more scriptures to verify your checks. This way it is not a personal or doctrinal check. If not, a check like a question levels our search for clarity. .
On parables, lets start here: Mat 13:10And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
---Trav on 8/3/21


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Ruben, where do you think it is? I've shown we are tried by fire here and now, for one, and showed scripture to support. I think God is able to handle things however He chooses. What we do know is scripture shows salvation is one thing, works are another. Some might be saved only by the skin of their teeth. We see through scripture crowns given as rewards. The crown of this or that. Paul stated... I have finished my course, and there is now laid up for me the crown of Righteousness 2 Timothy 4:7. But we know Paul was already saved before going to preach the gospel. So he isn't saying he had to earn salvation.


Also 2 Timothy 4 verse 1 says He will judge at His Appearing. Other places say His reward is with Him ...
---kathr4453 on 8/3/21


Our works are judged at the Judgement seat of Christ, for believers only.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/21

Yes and St Paul tells us about our works..

"each mans work will become manifest, for the Day [judgment day] will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. 1 Cor 3:13-15

Rev 21:27 says " Nothing unclean enters Heaven"

Where is this place that after we die, suffer loss , as through fire but yet safe?
---Ruben on 8/3/21


I believe the I NEVER KNEW YOU is paralleled with Matthew 7:21-23. Many play church and are religious but not saved. Whether this applies to the Church or end times entering into the earthly kingdom, doesn't matter because of Israel only a remnant will be saved, and only those IN CHRIST will be saved.

Oil also represents LIGHT. Oil for lamps would be for light not to be confused with anointing oil which represents the Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 8/3/21


Trav:

Who are these "1000 witnesses"? Be specific.

Yes, prophecies of Christ's birth and death were fulfilled, but that says nothing about all other prophecies being fulfilled too. Many OT prophecies remain unfulfilled. I showed a few of them from Zechariah, that deal with when the Lord will return, THEN all Israel will acknowledge him and mourn as for a firstborn, and he will crush their enemies - which has not happened yet. You have never addressed those. Why not? How do you explain these?

One reason the Jews rejected Jesus was they expected him to fulfill all of those prophecies (suffering servant AND conquering king) during one trip, and they rejected him when the latter didn't happen.
---StrongAxe on 8/2/21


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The difference between Israel and the Church is Israel is SERVANTHOOD, and the Church are SONS OF GOD RE HIS CHILDREN and no longer servants. Jesus clearly said no longer servants but sons.

The church has a higher calling than earthly Israel. This mystery is something those who don't believe in the distinct difference between these entirely different entities will never understand.

The Church is not divided into TRIBES. We are HIS BODY and not divided in any way shape or form WE ARE ONE...John 17.

Let Trav preach to earthly Israel, and let the rest preach the Gospel to all else, we choose to become sons.

Also those IN CHRIST already have the Holy Spirit so would not have to go buy oil from anywhere.
---kathr4453 on 8/2/21


"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. "Later the others also came. Lord, Lord, they said, open the door for us! But he replied, Truly I tell you, I dont know you.
(Matthew 25:10-12)


Trav
If Jesus closes the door, and says," I do not know you", that's not a good thing, is it? Just trying to keep you in check my friend, as you do with me.

The parable simply differentiates between the Wise virgins, those led by the Holy Spirit, and the Foolish virgins, those who put their trust in the false teachers (Oil Merchants), who want to sell you the oil for your lamp.
---David on 8/2/21


Trav:
You quoting scriptures, but never PROVEN-.
---StrongAxe on 8/1/21

Wow. U have DTS syndrome. Doubting Thomas. Had it myself.
1,000 witnesses, two eyes seeing, you still gotta stick your finger in it.
You are missing the entire fulfilled point. And living in the next, being fulfilled era.
1. Was Christ birth and death prophesied? Say yes. Full-Filled.
2. Was it prophesied to Israel by prophets of Israel? Yes again.

So these prophets did not lie, Israel was the recipient for stated reasons, chiefly servanthood to GOD. My posted verses do not lie, fulfilled, filling or to be filled to Israel.
Your cloaking argument is an objection to the recipients. Cloaking it in semantic diversions.
---Trav on 8/2/21


Trav
Does this mean Five of the Ten will be condemned, as in the parable?
---David on 8/1/21

I dont know. Still looking. Does it say condemned? Customs and language translations should be considered. I havent looked. Who cried out at midnight? Gives us a time link, a watchman for sure. Angel? Would seem so. In the first covenant there were 12 /13 participants equaling one marriage house. Yet GOD divorces the Nth House of Ten. Jer 3:8/14Judah had septre.
Im still searching, and asking our master/teacher myself on all things. If he tells you first pass it on.
Ten Lepers, Ten Servants, Ten coins, Ten Virgins. Prodigal son, two houses. 99 Sheep, one lost. They all concern Israel.
---Trav on 8/1/21


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Trav:

You quoting scriptures, but never PROVEN they were fulfilled. It is easy to prove some of them have NOT.

Romans 11:26 was NOT yet been fulfilled, as NOT all Israel was saved. He has NOT turned ungodliness from Jacob. As long as one person from ANY tribe of Israel is ungodly, this hasn't happened yet.

I alread showned Zechariah 12-14 talk of a time when Jesus would return, set foot on Mount of Olives, it would split in, *THEN* all Israel would recognize him, and mourn as for a firstborn. *THEN* he would destroy all their enemies. These are all in the future, and that is when Romans 11:26 will happen.
---StrongAxe on 8/1/21


The divorced house of 10. To be rejoined, 10 virgins, bridegroom etc.
---Trav


Trav
Interesting, You believe the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25), are the 10 tribes. Does this mean Five of the Ten will be condemned, as in the parable?
---David on 8/1/21


..a slave of righteousness without obedience?
---David on 7/22/21

David you are an interesting fellow. Appreciate the results of your focused searches. Keep them coming there is Gold in form of Truth in the panning, when the river flows from the only master. Matt 23:8.
The search, the finding, laying stone upon stone.

Eph 2:20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,
Isa 51:1-2.
Isa 51:7 Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law, fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
---Trav on 8/1/21


1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

So verse 7 comes before verse 9 and somehow David thinks this is a DIFFERENT CLEANSING?

I also believe SURRENDER, SUBMIT, YIELD are clearly in scripture as TO CHRISTIANS ONLY re Romans 6.

So now we are able to drill down even deeper David's doctrine. It appears he does not believe in the blood of the everlasting covenant either. Hebrews 13:20-21.

I do David. And I'm very HAPPY IN THE LORD. ALL HIS PROMISES ARE YES AND AMEN. PRAISE GOD.
---kathr4453 on 8/1/21


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You post scriptures about Israel, but ignore that NOT all prophecies about Israel were fulfilled yet.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/21

These scriptures about Israel that I post are axe proof. Hack away, you havent even chipped these posted scriptural rocks. Fulfilled, filling now and to be filled they are about one family. A servant people of GOD that you think you have replaced. Blindly unaware that the only reason you are aware of their GOD is through their written historical mistakes and Redemption through a blood kin sacrifice. Heb 8:8/Jer 31:31. Fulfilled.
What scriptural authority to anything can you possibly contribute, not even understanding the family you dont claim? None.
Chop, chop, hack, hack.
Isa 51:1-2.
---Trav on 7/31/21


But the CLEANSING is done by the BLOOD OF JESUS as we submit to Him.---kathr4453

Thats what the false doctrine teaches, and with their brand of submission.

My Lords disciples taught this.. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1 John 1:9)
---David on 7/31/21


Axe you stated:
I judge what you say.
because Israel rejected him.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/21

Judah, jews to you are only 1/12 th of Israel. You dont understand-your Bible well enough to even have these discussions.
You have your foundation doctrines built out of green persimmons and sand logic. Using a Book written by, to and for Israel.
Judah rejected Christ. His own family tribe. He states he came only to the Lost Sheep of the house of Israel. The divorced house of 10. To be rejoined, 10 virgins, bridegroom etc.
Im gonna point for you a verse below. Quit your teachers and ask the only one.
Your logic is not GOD inspired, approved and lacks all witnesses.
Mat 23:8But be not ye called .
---Trav on 7/31/21


Trav:

I judge what you SAY in light of scripture, not YOU as a person. We are told to show discernment, which means judgment. I.e. we are supposed to judge THINGS and IDEAS, not PEOPLE - which you do constantly using pejorative terms like "attack sheep".

You post scriptures about Israel, but ignore that NOT all prophecies about Israel were fulfilled yet. While Jesus was alive, he WAS only sent to "lost sheep of the house of Israel" - but after his death, he sent his disciples to "all nations", because Israel rejected him.

He often told parables like the Wedding Feast one, where the groom sent invitations to his friends, but when they made excuses, he later invited everyone else.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/21


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Yes love 2 Cor 7:1. Those IN CHRIST Paul is talking to. So seeing we are told we are no longer of this world , then we must obey this. We must also separate ourselves from false teachers. From being unequally yoked with unbelievers who are still in this world. Yes, these things we are to obey.

We will get our feet dirty walking in this world. James also addresses bickering etc. Friendship with the world , jealousy etc.

But the CLEANSING is done by the BLOOD OF JESUS as we submit to Him.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/21


Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)
---David on 7/30/21


Ruben, no scripture says our works are being purified so that we shall be saved .We're saved the very moment we believe in Jesus . Believe here is more than just head knowledge. So Romans 10:9-10 tell us what we are to believe in. And James says Faith without works is dead, so works, those Jesus has before ordained we walk in Eph 2 , are to those ONLY who are saved and IN CHRIST.

You believe you have to earn your salvation as does David. I don't. Scripture says we are COMPLETE IN HIM,Colossians 2:10 AND we have been sanctified ONCE AND FOR ALL THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST Hebrews 10.

Our works are judged at the Judgement seat of Christ, for believers only, not the great white throne judgement. Two entirely different judgements.
---kathr4453 on 7/30/21


Trav:
YOU are the one judging ME an "attack sheep".
I never attacked SCRIPTURE, just YOUR INTERPRETATION of it.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/21

Attacked my interpretation? Sounds like judging. Lets see what has upset you so. I rarely interpret, no need. I post prophets and Christ are speaking.
So it is the prophets you cannot agree with.
Christ failed what he sought for along with all the Apostles is what you are stating. Foolish but, you post it, maybe you still arent aware you do this. Maybe.
I post in mutiples scripture SPECIFIC to Israel and here you are, no scripture no proof.
Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 7/30/21


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Trav:

YOU are the one judging ME an "attack sheep".

I never attacked SCRIPTURE, just YOUR INTERPRETATION of it. These are two different things. It is extremely presumptuous to assume YOUR intepretation of scripture is correct and everyone else's is wrong. Cults do this.

They have laws in their heart, if you remember that lesson.

Zechariah 14:4: The Lord will stand on the Mount of Olives, and it will split in half

and 12:9-10: God will destroy all nations that come against Israel, and pour out a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on "me whom they have pierced" and mourn for him as a firsborn son.

These are all prophecies of the FUTURE that have not happened yet.
---StrongAxe on 7/30/21


Ruben, I believe our faith here and now IS tried by fire,
---kathr4453 on 7/27/21

Both 1 Peter 7 and Rev 3:18 supports what 1 Cor 3 13-17 is saying,

1 Cor 3:13 " the work of each will come to light, for the (DAY) will disclose it."

What Day is Paul talking about? Of course judgment day.

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire." v15

So our works are not going through fire now, until we meet Jesus. Remember it says ON THAT DAY IT WILL BE REVELED!

So I ask you now , where are our works being purified , so that we shall be saved?
---Ruben on 7/29/21


Trav:
Who made YOU the judge of who are sheep and who isn't? Jesus said "Judge NOT".
We're still waiting.
---StrongAxe on 7/28/21

Judge? Whats to judge. There is no such thing as an attack Sheep. So when Israels pearls in scripture are attacked or rended , its pretty clear you are not a Sheep.
They have laws in their heart, if you remember that lesson.
You are still waiting? Which verse of over 6,000 mentioning Israel do you prefer to dis the most, again.

Rom 11:26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
---Trav on 7/29/21


1 Corinthians 1:27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty,

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 7/29/21


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NOW David thinks he can cleanse himself too??????? Please show examples of those who first cleansed themselves and how exactly they did that according to scripture with scriptural back up. Are you also saying you can sanctify yourself too?

The New Covenant promises God saying "I WILL CLEANSE YOU" ETC. You may want to read Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 33 .

Or are you saying YOU don't believe in the New Covenant and those promises? And Funny, Trav doesn't have an issue with that? Or is he not calling you out because those promises are to Israel only and all else are not under and have to save, sanctify and glorify themselves the best they can?

You would have been better off just saying nothing David.
---kathr4453 on 7/29/21


Trav:

You wrote: I post for Sheep, Lost Sheep. Your non-bleeting replies have a bite to them.

Who made YOU the judge of who are sheep and who isn't? Jesus said "Judge NOT".

My House of Israel Cards carry a scripture on each card. Endorsed by GOD. This house stands all the way to the end.

What "My House of Israel Cards"? No scriptures mention "cards", nor that are endorsed by God. Once again, you pull nonsense out of thin air.

Yes, Jeremiah talks about families being cast off. It's sheer arrogance to presume others are part of the cast-offs while you are not.

Yet you STILL haven't shown ANY proof the "Nth House" accepted Jesus. We're still waiting.
---StrongAxe on 7/28/21


So I ask again Where does this cleansing take place?

And so many of you believe that once you die, you go directly to Heaven, scripture tell us we have to go thru fire before we go with Jesus.
---Ruben on 7/27/21


Great point Ruben.
I have tried for many years to get this across to folks, but they reject it because their houses are built on a different foundation. I do not say this to be critical of them, but as an observation.

Bottom line, which also took me many to understand, they believe salvation is their decision, it is not Gods. Cleansing and obedience is Gods requirement for salvation, but if they believe its their decision to be saved, the requirement is removed.
---David on 7/28/21


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