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Is Paul the 13th Apostle

Christ had 12 Apostles during his ministry on earth, but after His death, burial, and resurrection he called Paul to be another Apostle, why did Christ do that, and does that mean Paul became the 13th Apostle?

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 ---michael_e on 8/11/21
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Gal 4:16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
---Trav on 8/26/21

Tooooo funny. Now Paul did tell the truth, but to use Pauls words as your own does not guarantee you are telling the Truth. LOLAROTF.

PAUL IN GALATIANS taught Grace vs Law. He preached THE CROSS, and salvation by faith TO ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH.

Trav does not teach this truth. So using Paul's words here doesn't make Trav teaching true. Or even make Trav Paul. This is just another glaring problem Trav has with twisting the truth and misapplying the Word of God to his own advantage.
---kathr4453 on 8/26/21


Trav:

Yet more ad homimem attacks, without ACTUALLY addressing anything I said, or proving any of it wrong. Please provide some ACTUAL PROOF. Empty rhetoric is cheap.

Not honoring prophets is faulty logic.

So is not paying attention. I said many times I agree with prophets, just not with YOUR INTERPRETATION of them. You are not the sole interpreter of scripture. Most Christian scholars, who have made it their life's work to interpret scripture, disagree with many of your interpretations.

Scripture itself refutes the very idea: 2 Peter 1:20:
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/21


Works, does not save you.
But through our Good Works, we Grow in the Grace of God. And it is That Grace through which we shall be saved. Grace is the favor of God. This is why Jesus taught (John 14:21) and Paul

DAVID////


No DAVID, THAT IS NOT WHAT Jesus taught or what EPHESIANS 2 1-10 say at all. Only those already saved GROW in the Grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Works come as a result of being saved. Works are the FRUIT OF OUR SALVATION. Not the means of salvation.

Let's let the WORD OF GOD ALONE BE MADE PERFECTLY CLEAR....Not Davids commentary on the WOG. .....as any one can do that.

The only intermediary between God and man is JESUS CHRIST. NOT DAVID.
---kathr4453 on 8/26/21


God wants you to keep his Law because you love him, and the Law of Christ, because you love your neighbor. When you do what God tells you to do, out of Love...that is what changes the heart.

And folks, when your hearts change, your salvation status will also change.
---David on 8/26/21

I'm surprised Trav doesn't call you out on that misinformation. That is not what God promised in the NEW COVENANT. God GIVES US A NEW HEART, ...why, because no man can change his own heart. If that were possible there would be no need for those NEW COVENANT PROMISES BY FAITH. Ezekiel 36:26-27.
---kathr4454 on 8/26/21


I actually studied logic in college.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/21

Well all that study and math should help you. And it could if you applied the simple math. Truly wish it did.
Doctrines of men intervene.
You delved off early into two areas that confuse you, by your own choice. Not a logical choice but, choice. Not honoring prophets is faulty logic. Grade F for failure.
GODs plan and GODs plan for a people he chose. Your doctrinal logic does not work in his plan and your doctrinal math faulty. Seen as scripture posted dissolved your non scriptural doctrinal logic.
When truth makes you angry does it mean you prefer a lie?
Simple math.
Gal 4:16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
---Trav on 8/26/21




Let me make this simple for everyone's understanding, for I know many of us were raised following a false doctrine and it's difficult to get beyond that.

Works, does not save you.
But through our Good Works, we Grow in the Grace of God. And it is That Grace through which we shall be saved. Grace is the favor of God. This is why Jesus taught (John 14:21) and Paul (Romans 2), especially verse 29!!

God wants you to keep his Law because you love him, and the Law of Christ, because you love your neighbor. When you do what God tells you to do, out of Love...that is what changes the heart.

And folks, when your hearts change, your salvation status will also change.
---David on 8/26/21


Let's see what God said about ABRAHAM...."Abraham BELIEVED GOD and it was accounted to him for righteousness. " Romans 4:3.

"Those who are of FAITH are blessed with faithful Abraham" Galatians 3:9

Belief and faith are one and the same.

Acts 26:18....0ne of my favorites says an inheritance is given to those SANCTIFIED "BY FAITH" IN JESUS CHRIST.

I'm going to stick to the BY FAITH PROMISES. Even James, Jesus brother who wrote James says FAITH IS THE WAY. Oh yea 2 Peter 1. That whole chapter is FAITH TOO.

I think they ALL know what they are talking about...

And it's what turned Martin Luther around where he wrote the best book ever...JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH.
---kathr4453 on 8/26/21


2 Thess 3:1 Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Those who don't have faith have plagued the Church from the beginning. They are defined as unreasonable and wicked men, trying to STOP those who preach the Gospel of Grace AKA The Gospel according to the Mystery RE: Colossians 1:24-27. CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY.

They are the ones who would not let Jesus preach in their Church and crucified Him. These are the clouds without water Jude talks about. But WE HAVE OVERCOME THE EVIL ONE "BY FAITH" TOO! PRAISE GOD!
---kathr4454 on 8/26/21


Trav:

You wrote: Well using Harris or Meyers for a hireling you would be Z a combo of whatever your precarious situ logic calls for.

What does that even mean? Why don't you ever address the arguments that are presented, instead of launching into unrelated ad hominem attacks?

Yes, according to scripture, there ARE two kinds - right and wrong. But among the wrong, there are also two kinds - those who realize they are wrong (and humbly repent), and those who are so strongly deluded that they think they are right (and proudly refuse).

I am a math major. I actually studied logic in college. Did you? If you want to dispute somebody's logic, then point out the actual flaws in it. Mere mockery doesn't cut it.
---StrongAxe on 8/26/21


C. Think incorrectly, and know it).
D. Think incorrectly, but don't realize it (the deluded).
---StrongAxe on 8/23/21

Well using Harris or Meyers for a hireling you would be Z a combo of whatever your precarious situ logic calls for. Or combo of your making C and D above.
Using scripture. Which you dont, even here to verify your (not) logic there are two kinds. Right and wrong.
Sheep and Goats. You dont claim to be a sheep. But, we are supposed to go along with you unlogical unscriptural logic. Nahhh.
Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
---Trav on 8/25/21




David:

You wrote: One must remember as they sift through the doctrine of Kathrine, she believes we make the decision to be saved, not God.

Then whose doctrine are these:

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved, but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Acts 16:31
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

"SHALL be saved". No conditions. Not "Shall be saved IF I feel generous".
---StrongAxe on 8/25/21


David I have no idea what you are talking about. Is this more SLANDER AKA SIN from you? Are you ok. I post scripture AKA GODS WORD. God's word does not need your or my commentary. I simply believe what God says... WHO SO EVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. FAITH COMES BY HEARING, NOT BY ELECTION . NOT ALL MEN HAVE FAITH.

David from the OT to the NEW, The JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.

You don't believe in faith David. You believe in works.

You believe if you WORK HARD ENOUGH God will save you AKA SAVING YOURSELF.

I believe JESUS SAVES BASED ON HIS FINISHED WORKS NOT MINE.
---kathr4453 on 8/25/21


There's no faith required if God decides to save you. But let's ask, how do you know for a fact God decided to save you? If we are saved by Grace THROUGH FAITH, a Gift , not of works lest anyone should boast, then what criteria is there for you to be picked?

No scripture supports one must confess sin till their blue in the face SO THAT YOU HOPE YOU ARE PICKED. That's not God picking who He wants to save , but hoping you'll get picked based on YOU FIRST DOING SOMETHING.

It's an unheard of Doctrine David made up and has bullied those who rebuke him.

David is not sinless... PERIOD, I don't care what he thinks . God has not picked him.

David cannot provide any scripture to support the Gospel of David.
---kathr4454 on 8/25/21


Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

David, I can testify Kathr4453 has posted this often here and believes it to be true. So to bear false witness against another Christian who has made no such claim as you keep insisting is something I find reprehensible in your dialogue here online.

So what you are saying is Ephesians 2:8-9 and those who believe this are guilty of saving themselves? Would you care to explain? I believe Ephesians 2:8-9. Would you care to take a dig at me? Or are you focused with some obsession on just Kathr4453?
---Beena on 8/25/21


One must remember as they sift through the doctrine of Kathrine, she believes we make the decision to be saved, not God. I know it is God who decides who he will save and why he saves some, but not all, who call him Lord.

Hint:
And why call ye Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(Luke 6:46)
He that hath My commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me, and he that loveth Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him. (John 14:21)


You are saved when God decides to save you. A sign so you will know you are saved?...(1John 3:9-10). Remember, Jesus is your example of a Son of God, not Kathrine. Jesus wouldn't be allowed to teach in her church.
---David on 8/25/21


Repentance is when the sinner feels sorrow for sin, sorrow is what's missing in the lives of many Christians. If you love God, when you sin, there will be sorrow.
---David on 8/24/21

Also David has two groups here, 1) SINNERS 2) CHRISTIANS

Not all sinners feel sorrow for sin. And Christians have already repented of sin.

David is hard to follow mixing there two groups as one.

Christians re CHILDREN KNOW THEIR SINS ARE FORGIVEN. Young men... Have overcome the evil one.. FATHERS have known the Father from the beginning. These are the stages of our growth.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/21


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Are we talking about confessing sin, or the Holy Spirit? Remember John's baptism did not accompany the Holy Spirit, Jesus baptism does. ACTS 19.

When telling David CHRISTIANS DO CONFESS SIN, he accuses them of not being born again, and a slave to sin. Slaves to sin LOVE THEIR SIN AND DONT CONFESS TO BEGIN WITH.

If one says...David are you STILL CONFESSING YOUR SIN, he claims to be sinless. So....maybe others like yourself who don't confess sin think they too arrived at sinlessness. Just because you think you see their sin doesn't make it so. I have pointed out what I feel is Davids sin..RE PRIDE, but David doesn't call that sin.

So it's impossible to follow David's thinking.
---kathr4453 on 8/24/21


We OT repentance and confession of sin. So that was not something new with John the Baptist message. Mark 1:4-5 are explained in verses 1-3 . OT PROPHECY fortold of the ONE CRYING IN THE WILDERNESS, who was to preceded the Messiah. Those who believed in the Messiah did repent making the way straight for the Lord. So that has background to it.

TODAY The Messiah has come, died for our sin, rose from the dead and is now at the right hand of the Father. So we don't follow John's preaching that was BEFORE Jesus ministry. We follow JESUS CHRIST NOW, AFTER Jesus death and resurrection.

Now it's JESUS WHO BAPTIZES WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE....that did not accompany John the Baptist preaching. Acts 19 will explain.
---kathr4454 on 8/24/21


John baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judea and those of Jerusalem, and they were all baptized by him in the River Jordan, confessing their sins.
(Mark 1:4-5)


Repent and be baptized was simple message. When the Jews were told to Repent, they confessed their sins.
Notice He didn't tell them to confess their sins. So Confession was obviously implied when he told them to repent, else they wouldn't have confessed their sins.

Repentance is when the sinner feels sorrow for sin, sorrow is what's missing in the lives of many Christians. If you love God, when you sin, there will be sorrow.
---David on 8/24/21


It's my only hope for them who believe they are saved because they chose to be saved.

Show them how their doctrines make Jesus look like a liar.
---David on 8/22/21

Scripture verifying scripture can do this for some.
Selective doctrines only what they can manipulate. Comfort milk.
Words many and few are rarely used, or quoted. Words whole and all are the entire doctrine of some.
Mar 14:24And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.
Mar 10:45For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Additionally, Luk 12:51Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay, but rather division:
---Trav on 8/24/21


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We don't need instructions on "how to" follow the Holy Spirit. I believe Romans 6-8 show us how we are IN THE SPIRIT and not the flesh. Any other way is not biblical. What we do is FOLLOW CHRIST, where Jesus is said to baptize us with the Holy Spirit and fire.

We're called to LIFT UP CHRIST, to proclaim the GOOD NEWS AKA THE GOSPEL, not instruct folks how to follow the Holy Spirit. Maybe that's at the heart of this conflict here.

I understand those unlearned put things in their own words and experience. But we're not here to do that either. Everyone has a different EXPERIENCE. Someone's experience is not Doctrine. Paul never said "unless you get struck down and blinded like me, your not saved" .
---kathr4453 on 8/24/21


David:

Unfortunately, many THINK they have the Holy Spirit, but do not, or have it but ignore it and listen to their own instead.

This is the basic issue of whether people can know if they are right or not. People can think clearly, or not. They can either understand their own thinking process, or not. This gives four kinds of people:

A. Think clearly, and know it (the enlightened).
B. Think clearly, but don't realize it (not possible).
C. Think incorrectly, and know it (seekers who know they are imperfect).
D. Think incorrectly, but don't realize it (the deluded).

Unfortunately, A and D both think they are right, and D can't easily be convinced otherwise. Hence, deluded cultic thinking with unshakeable zeal.
---StrongAxe on 8/23/21


StrongAxe
This is why we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, so that we will know the truth.
The problem?
People look to men for all their answers about God, instead of seeking their answers....from God.

I don't want folks to follow me. I want them to follow Gods Holy Spirit, and I give them simple instruction on how to do that.
---David on 8/23/21


The sacrifice of Jesus Christ and our ability to confess our sins prevents us from needing to take the steps Jesus recommended in (Matthew 5:29-30).
---David on 8/21/21

Here's a perfect example of not honoring all scripture. YES rightly dividing the word of truth would tell us Romans 6-8 has made this cutting off hands and poking out eyes not necessary today. Because ALL OF US ( our whole being - those in Christ) DIED WITH CHRIST.

Earthly Israel and Gentiles entering into the earthly Kingdom reign still being fleshly ( not GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST as we will be) are going to be under KINGDOM LAW. So it's not that we don't honor that verse, we simply know it doesn't apply to the Church any more than the Old Covenant does.
---kathr4453 on 8/23/21


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David:

This is true. Sadly, often it's the most deluded who are most convinced they have the truth, and shout the loudest, and denounce what everyone else believes to be a lie. This is projection.

It's like this in many areas. The most deluded cults scream that others are in error. "Family values" preachers who scream loudest about vice, are often later caught in scandals involving the exact same vices they preached against.

Jesus said those who want to criticize the specks in others eyes should first examine and remove the beams from their own. Sadly, few actually do this. Also, few take criticism well, even though by the Golden Rule, they should not criticize unless they are willing to be criticized themselves.
---StrongAxe on 8/22/21


Trav:

why would any so called Christian not honor all scripture?

Good question. You constantly forget "Thou shalt not bear false witness". You constantly say patently untrue things about me, e.g. you recently claimed, without any evidence, that I "cannot" become a citizen. A mild lie, but the tip of the iceberg. You also call kathr and me "lonely psychos". Again, you have no knowledge of our person lives, nor can you perform medical diagnoses over the internet, so again, two more lies.

You also forget "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you". Since you constantly insult others and lie about them, you must WANT others to insult you and lie about you to. Do you?
---StrongAxe on 8/22/21


It is frustrating many do not honor Romans 6-8 . Here Paul so clearly lays out how we die to sin. But some just can't understand it because it is BY FAITH, and not all men have faith. Maybe those Calvinists are on to something saying God GIVES FAITH TO HIS ELECT.

But yes Marge, don't you love the backhanded gossipers here? And they are men too. Who would have guessed men gossip like some women pretending to be concerned with another's spirituality ..... So easy to see through that mess.

Men who act like women and have those characteristics women are accused of is a real turn off. They talk about you to other church members behind your back GASLIGHTING YOU .. so they can look good comparing themselves to the poor victims.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/21


This is interesting as well, why would any so called Christian not honor all scripture?---Trav

Trav
Frustrating to be sure. But in all areas of life, Truth is difficult to see when someone believes a lie. But God takes a dim view when one sees his Truth as a lie, especially when that Truth was given to us by his Only Begotten Son.

As they say, "The Devil is in the Details", which is why Jesus wanted a Yes or No answer. I believe this may be the key to letting in a little light. To be honest, It's my only hope for them who believe they are saved because they chose to be saved. Just a foot in the door...and who knows??

Show them how their doctrines make Jesus look like a liar.
---David on 8/22/21


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Folks have come and gone here for several reasons. Many have been thrown off for being unchristlike. As a forum who allows anyone's religious beliefs to be posted , as we see Trav and David too are allowed to bully and post, slander and accuse, insisting their way is the one true way, although Trav and Davids beliefs are as far from the east is from the west , we see in front of our eyes how ones beliefs don't always divide here, but bring out a hypocricy of sorts, showing ones beliefs are not the most important. Maybe friendships are even with opposites. So I'd say the lonely psychos are those who have nothing in common except their hatred of other certain folks. That's the only thing I can see bringing some here together.
---kathr4453 on 8/22/21


For those who want to understand, This passage pairs well with what is being taught in (1 John 1)

The light of the body is the eye.
(Luke 11:34-36)).
---David on 8/21/21

It used to be a few years ago that several would visit here searching for answers to various things.
The interesting that more looked than would reply. With this in mind I posted seldom seen scriptures that either attract from curiosity or provoke abhorrence and animosity. As you have witnessed. This is interesting as well, why would any so called Christian not honor all scripture? Scripture also answers this question.

I left for a while because of work and came back. I noticed that a pair of lonely psychos here had driven everyone away.
---Trav on 8/21/21


For those who want to understand, This passage pairs well with what is being taught in (1 John 1)

The light of the body is the eye. Therefore, when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light. But when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness. Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness. If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light. (Luke 11:34-36)

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ and our ability to confess our sins prevents us from needing to take the steps Jesus recommended in (Matthew 5:29-30).
---David on 8/21/21


Though we walk in the light, we will continue to sin until God chooses us and we are born again. (1John 3:9-10)
---David on 8/19/21

That is not what 1 John 3:9-10 say. Was Paul walking in the light until God chose him. NO Paul having rejected Jesus WHO IS THE LIGHT struck Paul down in his DARK place of sin on his way to murder more Christians. The LIGHT of the Glorified Christ blinded Paul.

Even between Jacob and Esau... GOD CHOSE JACOB BEFORE they were born, none having done any good or evil. So even there God's choice for service had nothing to do with what David teaches.
---kathr4453 on 8/21/21


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Yes sin separated God from man, beginning in the Garden of Eden. Now that verse is OT to Israel before the Cross. And yes, until unbelievers are saved they certainly are separated from God.

Those IN CHRIST today are chastised , but are not separated from God, anymore than a Father and Mother is separated from a naughty child. But yes, when we do sin, we confess...aka agreeing with God that we blew it. We also quench the Holy Spirit within, but never lose the Indwelling Holy Spirit. And we don't just POP OUT OF CHRIST when we falter and fail.

Nothing absolutely nothing can separate the believer from the love of God THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS.

Those who don't get a wooping may want to see if they really are IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 8/19/21


But your iniquities have separated you and your God, and your sins have hid His face from you, that He will not hear.
(Isaiah 59:2)


This is why daily confession of sin is imperative in the life of a believer. Forgiveness of sin removes the sin, which would otherwise keep us separated from God. God is light and that separation would leave us in the darkness. (1John 1:5-7)

The body of Christ is for forgiveness of sin, the blood of Christ washes away the sin. This cleansing is necessary so that we can walk in the light so and not in the dark.(1John 1:9-10)

Though we walk in the light, we will continue to sin until God chooses us and we are born again. (1John 3:9-10)
---David on 8/19/21


Lets review some commandments Christians are TO KEEP.

1) to love one another 1 John 3:11

2)to keep this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus who became obedient into death even death of a cross Phil 2:5-11

3) keeping your mind on things above not below Colossians 3:2 ( We see in Matthew EARTHLY ISRAEL will inherit the earth. A contrast to the Church which has a HEAVENLY CALLING AND PLACE). This world is not our home, and those who mind earthly things are enemies of the CROSS. PHIL 3:17-21

4) live by faith. ( the law is not of faith) Gal 3:12

5) be not unequally yoked with unbelievers 2 Corinthias 6:14

None of THESE THINGS are taught in Matthew. WHY? Because THESE THINGS BELONG TO THE CHURCH..
---kathr4453 on 8/19/21


Matthew is to Jews taking about entering into the earthly kingdom. Thess is talking to The Church is about THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY WHICH IS CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY.

There are verses that say cut off a hand and poke out an eye before enter in. However no such teaching is mentioned by Peter Paul James John about poking out eyes or cutting off hands to enter in. WE ENTER IN A NEW AND LIVING WAY THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY HIS FLESH.

If one has achieved sinless perfection then why cut off hands and poke out eyes? David simply has not learned to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH. The earthly kingdom will be UNDER THE LAW, WITH SEVERE CONSEQUENCES for sin.

THE CHURCH is not under Kingdom Law.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/21


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If you don't believe me, that's okay, but you must believe Jesus.

Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life? "Why do you ask me about what is good? Jesus replied. There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.
(Matthew 19:16-17)

....the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-8)
---David on 8/18/21


No scripture gives a step by step how to become sinless as David has taught here. David teaches:

1)Confess your sin over and over daily until you become sinless

2) THEN God will see your sinlessness and you will then be born again

None of the Apostles not even Jesus taught this. There is no scripture to back it up or other witnesses backing it up.

David has simply taken a verse here and there, nailed it together and WALLA a new doctrine is born. I can't even find this doctrine of those who do believe they can't sin. Donald Trump also claims he never sins.

Only Jesus is sinless. That's because Jesus IS GOD.
---kathr4453 on 8/18/21


David:

Once again, you do you reconcile this with 1 John, specifically written to the church, that says if we sin, He forgives us, and if we say we sin not, the truth is not in us?

I encountered many who call themselves Christians, who commit flagrant sins, obvious to everyone - yet they claim they are not sinning by virtue of verses like the one you quoted.

Many pastors and televangelists keep getting caught in embezzlement, adultery, child molestation, and even child trafficking. Yet they arrogantly claim they are above reproach. Humility is a virtue, but not to them.

Paul wrote of such people, "'It is because of YOU God's name is blasphemed among the nations' as it is written."
---StrongAxe on 8/17/21


Ok David, then I don't commit sin according to God.

So move on.

But seeing death still dwells in my mortal flesh so does sin.

Only Jesus in the end will do away with the last enemy DEATH AKA SIN AS WELL as promised.

If you believe you have achieved what Adam and Eve were before the fall....then you won't ever die or get sick. Good for you. I'm happy for you David. I guess like you said, only a very few of you exist. Good job David. You should be so very proud of yourself. You are AMAZING. You are incredible ......SUPERMAN. A SUPERHERO. I wonder why articles aren't written about you.
---kathr4453 on 8/17/21


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Kathrine
Believe it or not
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sinfor His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1 John 3:9)

We know that whosoever is born of God does not sin, but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.(1 John 5:18)

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
(James 2:17)
---David on 8/17/21


Trav:
loving, humble, and teachable, but perfect Trav is none of these.
---StrongAxe on 8/16/21

Teachable? Am so. You helped me develop a distaste to every false way. Your outstanding examples being found in scripture have enlightened me. These ancient Scriptures live in any age. I am humbled before an All Seeing GOD. by opportunities to post his word. Not perfectly but, as space warrants.

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil, that put darkness for light, and light for darkness, that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Psa 119:128 Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right, and I hate every false way.
---Trav on 8/17/21


Trav:

You wrote: I apologize for absolutely nothing.

This is the sin of pride, and a hard heart. Christians are supposed to be loving, humble, and teachable, but perfect Trav is none of these.

Insults, lies and slander to and about me because I told the truth and embarrassed you on a public forum are your problem. You are typical to your politics. Weak. False.

Name one "insult" I told about YOU. Unlike you, whenever I believe you say something wrong, I take issue with THAT, not YOU personally.

Name one "lie and slander" I told about YOU.

Why insult my politics? Politics were never part of this discussion. Why drag it in NOW, other than yet another ad hominem attack?
---StrongAxe on 8/16/21


Travis,
many not of Israel have also found the New Covenant , yet you say salvation does not apply to them.

Many of Israel have not found the New Covenant in Jesus Blood, yet you say they are saved anyway.

Finding or believing the New Covenant is not salvation.
--Samuel on 8/14/21

On your questions above.
1. Where did I say salvation does not apply. I didnt. You cannot find that statement. I posted scripture referring to Israel.
2. How do you know many of Israel have not found New Covenant? Where did I say they were saved anyway. I didnt. I posted Pauls statement in Romans.
Just because they call themselves what you may consider Israel does not make them so.
---Trav on 8/16/21


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Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house, and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

Praise God the TESTING OF MY FAITH...JAMES 1, my faith was tried and tested beyond ones wildest imagination , ...something ONLY GOD KNOWS AND SEES, has fulfilled His promise ***1Peter 5:10 ****

David doesn't believe in FAITH, therefore has no clue what is is to be tried proving the ROCK has sustained.

To play God and think they know and judge what they don't know is BEYONG ARROGANCE.
---kathr4454 on 8/16/21


Trav:
I'm not "a legend in my own mind" who thinks I'm always right and anyone who disagrees is always wrong.
If you post comments in a public forum, EVERYONE has a right to comment on them.
---StrongAxe on 8/15/21

Well, after looking rereading my replies to you and Sam I apologize for absolutely nothing. Insults, lies and slander to and about me because I told the truth and embarrassed you on a public forum are your problem. You are typical to your politics.
Weak. False.
Psa 119:128Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right, and I hate every false way.
---Trav on 8/15/21


Kathrine
As I stated...Foundation. Your house is built on sand.
---David on 8/16/21


I believe this verse makes clear THE GOSPEL is about THE CROSS OF CHRIST.


1 Corinthians 1:17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

Supporting this verse is 1st Corinthians 15:1-4.
---kathr4453 on 8/16/21


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What baffles me here David is your obsession with others sin when you are steeped in sin of your own. Maybe you don't see your sin, but other do see it.

You need to work out your own salvation and let others work out theirs. Seeing you have not conquered DEATH, DISEASE, SICKNESS, OLD AGE, ETC you are not sinless. A sinless person will never get sick or die. As all that is the effect of sin on us in our fleshly bodies. The problem David is your definition of sin is different than scriptures definition. Sin is in the world and so are we. When the NEW HEAVEN AND EARTH come and we are glorified together with Christ only THEN will we be sinless as sin will not enter into the New Heaven and earth.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/21


David... AGAIN ... SIN NEVER DIES. WE DIE TO SIN. When we take our place with Jesus in death and resurrection life Romans 6, aka being baptized INTO HIS DEATH, we died to sin and from there raised up together with Him A NEW CREATURE... IS HOW WE DIE TO SIN. Sin then has no more POWER OVER US. THE HOLY SPIRIT NOW DOES. ROMANS 8:1-4 Paul said I DIE DAILY. We take up our cross and Follow HIM DAILY. We also are told to put OFF the old man and put on the new. Also Romans 8:11-14 tell us it's the HOLY SPIRIT IN US mortifying AKA PUTTING TO DEATH the deeds of the flesh AKA SIN. You can't kill sin by your own self effort. FLESH CANNOT KILL FLESH. Don't you understand THE GOSPEL? THE REAL GOSPEL? Not the Gospel of David.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/21


Trav:

Does sarcasm never end with you? Must you put people down with EVERY SINGLE POST? You mock the appropriateness of other people's "christian examples" with your own - filled with non-Christian judgmentalism and holier-than-thou hubris.

Yes, one can infer what someone believes from what they post. However he NEVER said he never studied the Bible, or doesn't really believe in Jesus - these are two CONCLUSIONS that YOU leapt to in your own judgmental mind. Please stop.

I'm not "a legend in my own mind" who thinks I'm always right and anyone who disagrees is always wrong. Only you do that.

If you post comments in a public forum, EVERYONE has a right to comment on them.
---StrongAxe on 8/15/21


Travis, I'm not sure .
---Samuel on 8/14/21

Well sammy, such a nicely hardened christian example how to post.
You spent your entire post explaining how you couldn't understand anything. And its all my fault. And me unaware your feelings were hurt. Forgive.
You lost the thread in the scriptural discussions going on so they are confusing you, so you imply.
After reading your post history I can see where posting unfamiliar scripture may have challenged your understanding.
Ask your questions. Ill match it nicely with applicable scripture.

Rom 9:18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
---Trav on 8/15/21


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You have NO IDEA what Samuel believes, or what he has studied,,,,
Please remove the tree
---StrongAxe on 8/14/21

Samuel believes what his post history imply he believes. I believe he believes, what he believes.
The next to the last person in the world he needs to defended by would be yourself. A legend in your own mind.

He wants to discuss scripture its his business not yours, let him ask his questions.
Convert. Mind your own business. You have no authority or shown any discernment in any area to make any judgement call whatsoever. Truth.

Jas 5:19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him,
---Trav on 8/15/21


Kathrine
Foundation...Foundation...Foundation
Jesus died for the forgiveness of sin, forgiveness which enables us to have a relationship with God the Father. Without his sacrifice, this relationship and our subsequent salvation, would be impossible.

You believe God saves the sinner, when in reality, God saves the sinner from their sin. Sin must die, this is something you don't understand. You say you have died to sin, and yet the proof of this lie manifests itself every time you sin. If it had died...there would be no sin.

Fact...When something has died, there is no life in it. If you sin, isn't it obvious, sin is still alive in you?
---David on 8/15/21


Ok so let's see what the narrow way or gate is. It's very simply. It's Faith alone through Jesus alone. HE IS THE GATE, THE DOOR, THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE. No one can come to the Father except THROUGH The Son.

Jesus was simply reminding Israel what they should have known. That the MESSIAH who is Jesus was right there who they REJECTED...and multitudes of Jews even to today have rejected.

Islam, Hindu , self righteousness ETC is the broad way leading to distraction.

The verse doesn't need to be made complicated David. No sarcasm or arrogance (AKA SIN) is necessary.

David, do you know arrogance / sarcasm is a sin? Now you do! Woops.. looks like you are not sinless after all.
---kathr4453 on 8/15/21


Travis, I'm not sure if you have confused me with someone else, but your continual rantings about things no one said except in your own mind is what I'm referring to here with your posts. It's just jibber jabber nonsense. Do you have times you hear voices in your head? I have not the slightest idea what your ranting about or accusing me of here. I've simply made a statement asking a simple question. Like I said, you spend 3/4 answering back in rants and accusations to avoid answering others questions. It's a pattern with you.
---Samuel on 8/14/21


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Trav:

Whenever people just ask you simple questions, you accuse them of "accusing you" (as you just did to Samuel, constanty to me and kathr).

Yet you constantly accuse others - e.g. you just accused him of "You haven't studied your Bible enough to support your universal doctrine." or "No you don't really believe." Not to mention all you constantly accuse me and kathr of. You have NO IDEA what Samuel believes, or what he has studied, so you have NO CALL to accuse of things you make up in your own head.

This is called PROJECTION: you accuse others of doing what you yourself are doing. Jesus talked about this. Please remove the tree from your own eye before criticizing the speck in others'.
---StrongAxe on 8/14/21


Trav
Are these questions too hard for you to answer?
---Samuel on 8/14/21

What questions? Ironic you accuse me of what you do here.
GOD is the GOD of all. He dealt with (all) through Israel. The Bible was written by men of Israel about Israel too Israel.
Which you don't claim to be but, confidently explain them away with no scripture, just your opinion. So you claim you believe in Jesus. Just not his prophets Apostles or many of statements he made. No you don't really believe. You want it your way.
You haven't studied your Bible enough to support your universal doctrine.
Eze 37:28 And the gentiles shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
---Trav on 8/14/21


You can keep clinging to the exclusivity of the Old Covenant. Christians cling to the universality of the new.
---StrongAxe on 8/13/21

Proudly before GOD I cling to the OT prophets verifying Christ and the exclusivity of the New Testament Covenant. An exceeding safer place than your conjectures.
How can you not see?
Because Israel is no concern of yours, you dont even recognize there was a division/ split between Judah and Nth House!!
I should say wont. Because scriptural evidence has been posted. You want to play catholic expert with few to no scriptures, just opinion. That fine. GOD provided many scriptures confounding scripturally blind and false doctrine. >You are great practice, I will switch to my right hand.
---Trav on 8/14/21


David you always distort things in your sarcastic way. Read Romans 10: 9-10. This is what GOD SAID. If you confess with your mouth.,.. And believe IN YOUR HEART,. ( NOT IN YOUR HEAD ) GOD RAISED JESUS FROM THE DEAD. So if that bothers you in some way take it up with God.

Believing in Jesus death and resurrection INCLUDES UNDERSTANDING He died for your sin.

Your sarcasm is unbelievable, but your PRIDE wants to say LOOK AT ME..LOOK WHAT I DID. It might sound all pious but it's self-righteousness. Something God HATES.
---kathr4453 on 8/14/21


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Narrow way? I found truth in asking searching. Prophets and Christ hold the truth. Does Truth lead to the narrow way? Are false doctrines of men the wide?
---Trav


Trav
Truth in the church today is multifaceted. It is not one truth, it is many truths. Not a long narrow path, but a short wide path. As long as you believe Jesus is the Son of God...You are saved. It doesn't really matter what they teach after that, if John 3:16 is the center of the doctrine.

Oh....with the exception of those they label as "Cults". Funny how all their doctrines, by definition, are also cults, but they only put this tag on a few of them. Everyone one them can be traced back to a founder, a founder who wasn't Jesus Christ.
---David on 8/14/21


Travis, many not of Israel have also found the New Covenant , yet you say salvation does not apply to them.

Many of Israel have not found the New Covenant in Jesus Blood, yet you say they are saved anyway. Many are still living under the Old Covenant, because they do not believe in Jesus, His death and resurrection which secured the New Covenant.

Finding or believing the New Covenant is not salvation. Finding Jesus is salvation. We are not saved by doctrine, but by Jesus death and resurrection.

Travis, when asked a question, why do you beat around the bush using 3/4 of your 125 words to insult? Are these questions too hard for you to answer?
---Samuel on 8/14/21


"Number twelve is the first clue.
Israel was a body composed of 12 in the OT."
Jesus in his earthly ministry said Israel was composed of !2 tribes
Matt 19:27..."ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."
---michael_e on 8/14/21


Trav:

No. Christ and his commission didn't "FAIL" to find the Lost Sheep of the *Israel* (the Bible always says "Lost Sheep of the House of Israel", never "Lost Sheep of the Nth House")

This just didn't happen YET. Some propheries have been fulfilled, some will be fulfilled later. How can you not see this?

After Jesus' death, he sent his disciples to *all nations*. Paul said in Christ there is no Jew nor Greek - i.e. those who ARE of Israel are NO DIFFERENT than those who are NOT. The covenant of Moses was ONLY to Israel. The covenant of Christ is to Israel **AND** everyone else.

You can keep clinging to the exclusivity of the Old Covenant. Christians cling to the universality of the new.
---StrongAxe on 8/13/21


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Yes. Israels New Testament.

Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
---Trav on 8/12/21

How did the Bible come about?

Where does God tells Israels that these 27 books belong in the NT?
---Ruben on 8/13/21


Travis, please enlighten us on exactly what the narrow path is for one of your Jews? Have you found it?
---Samuel on 8/11/21

Scriptures Ive posted from prophets, Christ an Apostles seem to have at least generated a question or two about truth in doctrine. Or it is your way of being sarcastic.
I started 25 years ago at Heb 8:8 / Jer 31:31.
Amazed that no Church I attended in 40 years discussed this New Testament of a New Covenant or anything connected. They couldn't to be fair to them. Having either never seen or considered it themselves.
Narrow way? I found truth in asking searching. Prophets and Christ hold the truth. Does Truth lead to the narrow way? Are false doctrines of men the wide?
---Trav on 8/13/21


Trav:
What is this "Israel's Bible" you keep talking about? The OT was written to Israel. The NT was written to everyone.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/21

So by diverting to where you admit Christ and his commission FAILED to find the Lost Sheep of the Nth house is your way of admitting you are a liar posting things Ive never stated?

Yes. Israels New Testament.

Heb 9:15And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
---Trav on 8/12/21


Trav:

In "Who are the Children of Promise":

I on on 7/21/21: You have NEVER posted ANY scripture that shows that the "Nth house" accepted Jesus.
You on 7/22/21: Even though Christ fulfilled their prophecy. Lost Sheep are the Nth House scattered. To be found but, you imply Prophets Christ, and Apostles failed in this.

Since you contradicted me, you must mean they DID (past tense) accept Jesus. So where is "Nth tribe" that did that, and when, exactly?

Read Israels bible about 10 years and come back and visit

What is this "Israel's Bible" you keep talking about? The OT was written to Israel. The NT was written to everyone.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/21


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Trav:
You claim that all of the prophecies pertaining to Israel have ALREADY been fulfilled
---StrongAxe on 8/12/21

Well sir, you cannot find a post of mine claiming the above. Which makes you a liar provable by past post. Or you are still upset and confused by the volume and simplicity of these specific scriptures written to Israel.

Ive posted not to you but, to those of Israel that might respond. You respond in their place? You post nothing to or for Israel out of a book written by them, to them for them.
You attempt to displace them, but cannot prove you have.
Rather dangerous and you lose any imaginary online stature you enjoy pretending you have.
Read Israels bible about 10 years and come back and visit
---Trav on 8/12/21


Trav:

You still don't seem to get it, even after I have said it multiple times, so let me repeat it really slowly, so maybe you will finally get it.

*I* *don't* *condemn* *the* *VERSES* *you* *post* *as* *lies*.

*I* *dispute* *the* *CONCLUSIONS* *you* *reach* *from* *them*.

You claim that all of the prophecies pertaining to Israel have ALREADY been fulfilled, while it is manifestly obvious that, even though some of them have been fulfilled, many of them have not been fulfilled YET - they WILL only be fulfilled during the Second Coming of Christ.
---StrongAxe on 8/12/21


Church is comprised of one body not 12 tribes.
---michael_e on 8/11/21

Number twelve is the first clue.
Israel was a body composed of 12 in the OT.
The New Covenant in Jer 31:31/Heb 8:8 shows the same group rejoined.
Assembly of the called out of Israel equals the word translated as church.
Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me, him shall ye hear.
Act 7:38 This is he, that was in the church/assembly in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
---Trav on 8/12/21


Apostles are given to THE CHURCH. Not only is the CHURCH going to judge Israel the nation, but one day we are going to judge the Angels. THE CHURCH has a HIGHER CALLING and this will be one of the purposes of the CHURCH. We are going to reign and rule WITH CHRIST during the earthly Kingdom reign...judging Israel as well as the Gentiles during that time.

1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11 TO THE CHURCH...And he gave some, apostles, and some, prophets, and some, evangelists, and some, pastors and teachers,
---kathr4453 on 8/12/21


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After His death, burial, and resurrection he called Paul to be another Apostle, why did Christ do that? (Knowing Matthias replaced Judas)
"The Apostles represent the Church, the 12 tribes represent Israel." wrong
The 12 apostles are to sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes. The Church is comprised of one body not 12 tribes.
---michael_e on 8/11/21


Jesus picked 12 to be Apostles. Judas, the betrayer, was replaced by Matthias. They were chosen specifically to judge the 12 Tribes of Israel.

Paul went to the Gentiles. Jesus didn't select him to be a judge. He was in a completely different category from the 12.
---JS1234 on 8/11/21


I see Barnabas is also said to be an Apostle. Did he become the 14th Apostle? Acts 14:14. Which when the ApostleS (plural) Barnabas and Paul heard of, they rent their cloths and ran in among the people crying out...

Interestingly John in Revelation, written is said to be around 95ad refers in Rev 21:14 to the 12 Apostles of the Lamb. The Apostles represent the Church, the 12 tribes represent Israel.

No scripture says anything about 13 or 14 or 15 Apostles.

If God replaced Judas with Paul, he would be the 12th Apostle of the Lamb. The Lamb being of course Jesus Christ, The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Judas rejected that prophecy of Jesus opting for the KINGDOM NOW instead.
---kathr4453 on 8/11/21


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