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Church Today In Apostasy

Is the church today in apostasy and why?

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 ---Bob on 9/28/21
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There are a couple here who clearly fall into this category. They are not sinless . Using scripture as a form of witchcraft too to assault another is also sin. Falsely ASSUMING Strongaxe agrees with me rather than just understanding scripture as most Christians do, is another form of sin....JEALOUSY disguised as some sort of righteous act. One person here hits on ALL 7.


Proverbs 6:16-19

16 These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/21


David:

Jesus freed us from the curses of sin, disease, and death, which we all inherited from Adam. That Christians still get sick, and die (witnessed by church cemeteries for the past two millennia) and even the Apostles gave us rules for how to deal with sins and apostasy within the church demonstrate that none of these were absolute and instantaneous.

Do YOU personally know any Christian who never sins or gets sick, and who is living forever? I sure don't.

So if what you're saying is, indeed, true, this means at least 99.999999% of Christians throughout history have not been saved and redeemed. "I came to save mankind from sin, but that doesn't apply to most of you" is not a particularly appealing gospel.
---StrongAxe on 10/18/21


When did I say I sin WILLFULLY Against God? David is WILLFULLY LYING here. That is what WILLFULLY SIN IS. And David makes a habitual habit here of WILLFULLY LYING and making false accusations.

You see there is the difference. Willful means purposeful and intentional. Where John says IF WE CONTINUE IN SIN. David CONTINUES in this same assault of lying and false accusations called WILLFUL SIN.

So David has proved 1) he is not saved 2) or there is no such thing as sinless perfection.

Now I will say Christians don't WILLFULLY sin. But David here has. Hummmmm
---kathr4453 on 10/18/21


Through Jesus' sacrifice, we are no longer SLAVES to sin. We aren't incapable of it, just no longer compelled to do it.---StrongAxe

A slave sins against their will StrongAxe. If a free man sins, he sins willfully. Are you telling me, you have been set free of sin, and you willfully sin against God, as Kathrine proclaims she does?

I asked who HERE ON THIS SITE agrees with you? ---kathr

Couldn't find anyone in the bible, to corroborate what you believe Paul taught, so now StrongAxe is your witness?
---David on 10/18/21


David thinks 1 John is written to unbelievers. David believes to get saved you have to confess your sin till your blue in the face and with this action you can cleanse yourself and become sinless. Then God sees you as sinless and says WOW, now I can save this person.

The problem is David rejects salvation BY FAITH IN JESUS. So he sees 1st John differently than others.

But the only CONFESSION I see re salvation first is Romans 10:9-10. To confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe God raised Jesus from the dead. We BELIEVE UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS. WE DONT CONFESS SIN UNTO RIGHTEOUSNESS.

This is reiterated all through scripture. BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ... And thou shall be saved. 1John is written to BELIEVERS.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/21




David:

Through Adam's disobedience, all became SLAVES to sin. Through Jesus' sacrifice, we are no longer SLAVES to sin. We aren't incapable of it, just no longer compelled to do it. 1 John says if we sin, we must confess, and He will forgive us - written to the Church, not unbelievers.

There can be sin without Law. E.g. Adam eating the fruit, Cain murdering Abel even though there was no law against murder at that time.

Some were saying we should sin more to better demonstrate God's grace, but Paul said God forbid!

Unfortunately, many who call themselves Christians believe in "Easy Grace", treating it as a "get out of hell free" card, a license to do whatever they please with no repercussions.
---StrongAxe on 10/17/21


Just read 1 and 2 Timothy. I don't see Paul even remotely saying we are sinless.

David, those Apostles agree with me. Ha ha.

I asked who HERE ON THIS SITE agrees with you? I so no one. You say you are here to save the world , so you must feel you have an audience of thousands. I see no one popping in to support your theory.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/21


StrongAxe
My mistake, I thought you believed Jesus died for our sins, just as I do.
Why do I say this?

Facts!!!
Sin is the transgression of the Law.(1 John 3:4)
Jesus died as our sacrifice for sin when we break the Law.
If you are not under the Law, you can not sin. If you can not sin, you do not need a sacrifice for sin.

So tell me your interpretation, as to why Jesus had to die on the cross?
---David on 10/17/21


WHO ELSE AGREES WITH YOU? ---kathr4453

Well lets see...
There is of course, Jesus, the Son of God. John, Paul, James, and Peter, just to name a few. Who agrees with you?
---David on 10/16/21

Absolutely correct. I agree with your search. I agree with Michael e search. Everyone should search, apply all witnesses for theirselves.
Problem here is a scripturally unauthorized self proclaimed teacher priestess.
Michael e. unauthorized searching without her permission offends her now.
Rev 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
---Trav on 10/17/21


We are to obey the laws of GOD because we are followers of Jesus our Lord and Savior. Christians are not to be liar and murdering people. We are to care for others. Yes we still sin. But all our sins can be forgiven when we repent. To live in sin is to not be a Christian. Hypocrites live in sin. Matthew 25
---Samuelbb7 on 10/17/21




James 2:8-12 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. James. Jesus also teaches to obey the law. Matthew 5
---Samuelbb7 on 10/17/21


David:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If we were currently under the Law, then we would be required to live 100% sinless lives from the moment we were saved until death. Even one single slip-up of the tiniest kind, and it would be just as bad as if we had committed mass murder.

To claim that one is totally sinless is to try to justify oneself according to the Law.

We would be total slaves to the Law. Jesus died to free us from slavery to the Law.
---StrongAxe on 10/16/21


WHO ELSE AGREES WITH YOU? ---kathr4453

Well lets see...
There is of course, Jesus, the Son of God. John, Paul, James, and Peter, just to name a few. Who agrees with you?

You see Kathrine, that's the point, you and many like you are missing. You don't look for your witnesses to Paul's teachings in the Bible. By your own words...you look to mainstream church doctrines as your witnesses.

If that is not true, give me one witness in the Bible, one who teaches we are not under the Law of God. You have Paul, but show me another witness, just one, who teaches what you claim Paul taught.

Ephesians 4...If a church is founded on a false doctrine, one whose teachings are against Christ, are they the body of Christ?
---David on 10/16/21


David, I said nothing about interpreters of any kind. However if you look at Ephesians 4, again read THE WHOLE CHAPTER, God gifted His Body of believers, those IN CHRIST ONLY with spiritual gifts FOR THE PURPOSE of keeping us from false teachers. Teacher, exhortation, prophesy, service, evangelism, etc etc until we all come into maturity. So yes God has gifted His Church , every single one with these gifts.

So here again, no man is an island, No personal interpretations , no personal revelations given only to one that can't be brought into check by other members.

Again, WHAT DENOMINATION ARE YOU? WHO ELSE AGREES WITH YOU? If there are no other, you don't fall into Ephesians 4, and we should be weary of you.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/21


StrongAxe & Kathrine
I don't know where to begin, for you have both been instrumental in helping me to better understand the division in the church. It is because many are following interpreters of the bible, and not the actual teachers...in the bible.

You believe, Though folks can get a bible interpreted into their own language, they must find another interpreter, to interpret the interpreted bible. The Pope, Billy Graham, Charles Stanley, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, Joyce Meyer, and Kenneth Copeland are all interpreters.

I listed all of them in one lump, for they are all interpreters. What criteria do folks use as to which interpretation to follow?
(2 Timothy 4:3)
---David on 10/15/21


When reading (1 Timothy) we must remember it is a letter, a letter written to single person. In order to understand the middle portion of this letter, we must read the entire letter to understand the context.

Imagine having a 15 page letter, written to someone else. Wouldn't it be hard to understand the context of the letter if you only had one page of that letter?

If you read the entire letter you can understand what Paul was talking about. In the first chapter of the letter you can see teachers were still mixing the Law of Moses in with the Law of Christ. Just as they were in (Acts 15).
---David on 10/14/21


Exactly what I said about the Romans Letter. Are you a double minded man David?
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


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David:

We need an interpreter because the Bible was written in informal language, to commmon people. It is not a legal document written in precise legalese. It is not a precise mathematical, scientific, or engineering specification. All of those use precise words and language, but the Bible does not.

What does "rightly divide the word of truth" mean, precisely?, What is "the word of truth"? How does one "divide" a word? How does one do it "rightly"? None of these terms are precisely defined. It is assumed the reader will be able to figure it out. People 2000 years ago lived in a different culture and had different preconceptions and assumptions than we do, so things need to be interpreted.
---StrongAxe on 10/14/21


A GOOD LAWYER READS ALL FINE PRINT.

Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things so ever the law saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets, 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God, 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


David I LOVE ROMANS 2. But I just interpret it differently than you do.---kathr4453

That's the whole point, (Romans 2) is a teaching, and Paul was the teacher.
Have you ever considered, If you need to interpret what a teacher, teaches, perhaps it is not the teaching, but your lack of knowledge of the subject they are teaching?

A teacher is an instructor...not a mystery writer. An interpreter is a person who provides an oral translation between speakers who speak different languages. We have bibles, translated into our language, so why is there need for an interpreter?

The reason, is so folks can make the bible say what they want it to say.
---David on 10/13/21


David, I also don't jump to conclusions. You have, by not supporting your belief that one achieves sinless perfection by a continuing of confession of sin, thereby becoming sinless. If that were true, why do so many Catholics still confess sin. If the act itself produces sinless perfection, we would see this clearly in the RCC who by the way also never teach such a thing.

Please tell us what your denomination is that teaches this and allow us to review their doctrine for ourselves.

Seeing you point fingers at everyone else being wrong but YOU, tell us who YOU as a denomination are.

If you say only YOU have this knowledge....that is a problem.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/21


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David I LOVE ROMANS 2. But I just interpret it differently than you do. Why? Because I read the WHOLE CHAPTER. I don't cherry pick a verse here and there to build my own doctrine like all cults do.

You may want to go back and reread many of my posts. I encourage people to read THE WHOLE CHAPTER. actually sometimes 2-3 chapters.

That's what a gifted teacher does as well. However I never claimed to be a teacher. That is something you and Trav cooked up. My gift is Exhortation.

So AGAIN I will exhort you to not cherry pick but read whole chapters. READ Romans 5-8. That way you won't fall into a pit of personal interpretation FORBIDDEN BY JESUS.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/21


All David has is CONJECTURE.---kathr4453

Is it Conjecture, when I have multiple witnesses from teachers....in the Bible?
Kathrine, like most mainstream teachers, have no biblical witnesses. The only place where their doctrines find any support, is in Paul's epistles, even though Paul himself, refutes their interpretations. This is why they don't teach chapters like (Romans 2). It says what it says, and needs no interpretation.

They simply have no corroborating witnesses in the bible, to support what they claim Paul taught. So people who follow their teachings must rely solely on their Interpretations of the bible. Thereby, the interpreter becomes the teacher.
---David on 10/13/21


Children, young men , father's, ALL SONS OF GOD HERE. These are the stages of growth SONS OF GOD GO THROUGH AKA MATURITY.

No verse says you know you are a son when you have achieved sinless perfection. All David has is CONJECTURE. His own flavor of filling in his own blanks of what he wants to believe instead of using scripture to fill in those blanks.

Jesus TOOK OUR SIN. OUR SIN WAS LAID UPON HIM. HE DIED IN OUR PLACE. HE WAS WOUNDED FOR OUR TRANSGRESSIONS. Use these verses to properly fill in the blanks. AKA RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. Start with Romans 5.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


1, 2 and 3rd John is written exclusively to those saved.
Children KNOW THEIR SINS ARE FORGIVEN

Young men HAVE OVERCOME THE EVIL ONE

Fathers ....

No verse says at anytime we know or have achieved sinless perfection.

When we are baptized into CHRISTS death, the power of sin is broken, and we are raised up SONS OF GOD, BECAUSE WE ARE IN THE SON OF GOD. This is clearly explained in Romans 5-8.

Why does David not believe Romans 5-8? Paul explains fully how one no longer is a servant of sin. Scripture clearly shows how one becomes a son. TO AS MANY AS RECEIVE HIM.....THOSE ARE JESUS WORDS. JOHN 1:1-17. David now wants to pick and choose Jesus words? That's rich.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


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John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, Everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

StrongAxe
Foundation brother..Foundation!
In the above passage, taught by the Author of Salvation, What's the difference between the slave, and the son? If one of them is a slave because they sin, doesn't it stand to reason, the other is a son... because they do not sin? Can you see the delineation?

This delineation is also expounded upon in (1 John). (1 John 1 8-10) is written about those who are still slaves, (1 John 3:9-10) to those are Sons....permanent members of the family.
---David on 10/12/21


1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.


Notice Paul didn't say "to save the sinless". God also Justified the ungodly, not the godly. If we can achieve sinless perfection , and say you have to do this before God chooses you for salvation, what is He saving you from? We as sinners are being saved from our sin.

Matthew 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


RichardC:

1 John 1 8-10:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John was written to the church - yet says "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves".

Yes, Jesus cleanses us from sin, but that is not instantaneous. He also conquered death, yet we still die. The abundance of Christian cemeteries for the last 2000 years proves this conquest is not yet complete.

Do you know ANY church full of 100% sinless and 100% immortal saints?
---StrongAxe on 10/11/21


1 John 5:17 - All unrighteousness is sin: And there is a sin not unto death

1 John 5:18 - We know that whosoever is Born of God sinneth not , But he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and the wicked one toucheth him not.

Hebrews 8:12 - For I will be merciful , to their unrightousness , And their sins and their iniquites, will remember them no more.
---RichardC on 10/11/21


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David,Gospel means THE GOOD NEWS. They proclaimed the GOOD NEWS OF JESUS CHRIST.

No gospel teaches that if you confess your sin till you can't find anymore within, you become sinless, and THEN God will save you because YOU have worked hard to achieve salvation. Yours is a works doctrine not found in scripture.

Scripture teaches that those who are crucified with Christ and raised up a new Creature have DIED TO SIN. YOU HOWEVER DONT BELIEVE ROMANS 6-8 "GODS WAY.

I believe JESUS has freed us from the bondage of sin, no longer servants of sin, but SONS OF GOD. Just as He stated ...the verse You keep taking out of context.

So for the 99th time,I believe what Jesus showed Paul and what Paul told us as to HOW.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/21


I just don't believe your interpretation of Jesus teachings.---kathr4453

That's what the majority of folks are blind to.The Gospels are the T-E-A-C-H-I-N-G-S of Jesus Christ.

A teaching, written in your language, shouldn't need an interpreter. If if it does, The interpreter becomes your teacher.
When you went to school, as a child, did your teacher have an interpreter? No.
When you went to college, did your professors have an interpreter?
No.

But many folks have been led to believe, the Son of God, the master teacher, needs a man to interpret his teachings. That's not saying much about the Son of Gods ability, to teach...now is it?
---David on 10/11/21


David, must I remind you again and again I believe EVERY WORD OF THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST.

I just don't believe your interpretation of Jesus teachings. You are not Jesus. Do you understand that?

You're in a minority David, as even Trav didn't come to the defence of your interpretation. He thinks insulting others is all he needs to do and actually the only think Trav knows...how to gaslight. So pathetic. What verse did he use to back up sinless perfection? NONE!

You don't believe in the deity of Christ, you believe God created 2 sets of humans, just for starters here show there are many areas MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY disagrees with you on. Wrong in one.... Wrong in MANY AREAS.
---kathr4453 on 10/10/21


Pro 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

Pro 9:6 Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding.

Or woe-man.
---Trav on 10/9/21
---Trav on 10/10/21


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Man we shouldnt even respond to insanity.---Trav

I respond, because I understand why those who reject the teachings of Jesus Christ sound so delusional.
(2 Thessalonians 2:11-12) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Kathrine, and "Mainstream Christianity", clearly reject the teachings Jesus taught to his disciples. So..naturally, they will sound delusional to those of us who teach and believe the teachings of Jesus Christ.
---David on 10/10/21


Trav, proclaim here and now you have achieved sinless perfection, or your insulting scriptures are in reality addressed to David.

You love jumping in to attack people, but make no statement about the subject. That's sin in itself. Being a busy body in other men's matters. I think we can all see you are not sinless, nor have you ever declared you are. Your nasty words to Strongaxe are not filled with love or grace...strike 2. No one here comes to your defense either. You both are stray dogs seeking who you can devour.

So if you want to insult me, then declare your sinless perfection. Tell us EXACTLY how you achieved it according to David's doctrine. You can't.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/21


1 John 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


David NO ONE HERE AGREES WITH YOUR DOCTRINE ON THIS SUBJECT.

So with that David, seeing not one single person has backed you up or believes as you do, stop accusing me. What you then say about me you are accusing everyone else here. Do stop singling me out.

Mainstream Christianity disagrees with you David. Stop making it about me.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/21


Can you get through your head others don't interpret the scriptures as you do? ---kathr4453
---David on 10/9/21

Man we shouldnt even respond to insanity. Im guilty for posting pearls that get trampled and rended. Just encourages a reply.
Suspected it was too good to last long. I just wont look. Found these pertaining.

Pro 14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man, when thou perceivest not in him the lips of knowledge.

Pro 29:9 If a wise man contendeth with a foolish man, whether he rage or laugh, there is no rest.

Pro 9:6 Forsake the foolish, and live, and go in the way of understanding.
---Trav on 10/9/21


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Can you get through your head others don't interpret the scriptures as you do? ---kathr4453

Isn't it Interesting, How a clearly written teaching needs to be interpreted, when people like Kathrine disagree with the teachers.
Like this one....who is obviously teaching works, according to the book of Kathrine.

(Hebrews 5:9-10)KJV
And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation unto all those who obey Him, being called by God as a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
---David on 10/9/21


[The bible tells us the Sons of God do not sin (1 John 3:9 & 10).]
Have you ever found a believer that didnt sin? (Gal 5:17)
These little Jewish epistles written by James and Peter and John to Jews, was in accord with the agreement at the Jerusalem counsel in Gal. 2
The law was holy and righteous but its purpose was to show that we are not.
The true church the Body of Christ is not in apostasy.
---michael_e on 10/9/21


David, it has been noted before you have all the signs of a cult leader wanna be. Personal revelations , only a hand full of you are sinless, be like me, bullying those who refuse to be controlled by your bullying here , continually accusing them of not believing God, because YOU ARE CHOSEN BY GOD TO bully others into submitting to your personal interpretation. Insisting all other denominations are wrong BUT YOU. All classic Cult leader garbage.

Can you get through your head others don't interpret the scriptures as you do? The argument is against your interpretation David. Seeing your not God or Jesus and have never been chosen to speak for God, stop falsely accusing others. DEAL WITH YOUR OWN SIN, and let God deal with others.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/21


And because of David's teachings of sinless perfection....---kathr4453

(1 John 3:9-10)
Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither is he that loveth not his brother.


For anyone new here, as you can see, Kathrine gets John and I confused. As you all know, I didn't pen anything written in the bible.
Since it was John who taught," those born of God do not sin", I believe she is unknowingly, calling John out for being the leader of a cult.
---David on 10/9/21


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And because of David's teachings of sinless perfection we see the Cult Church called the Remnant Church started by this person , who said being fat or overweight was sin, created a cult of abusive oversight and mind control of its members.

Sinless perfection is a dangerous doctrine because it gives Cult leaders power to try to control your every move, thought etc.

One day when we are glorified with Christ, we and all of heaven and the new earth will be sinless. There will be no more sin and death. As long as there is death there is still sin, and our frail human flesh will always have to lean on the Lord until then.

If you claim to be sinless it's saying you don't need the Lord any longer. So wrong.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/21


Christ defines Christianity, not other Christians.---michael_e

(2 Corinthians 5:20) Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were beseeching you by us: we pray you on Christs stead, be ye reconciled to God.

Michael
True, but as ambassadors for Christ shouldn't the world sees Christ in us?
And if we call ourselves the Sons of God, shouldn't the world expect us to act accordingly?

The bible tells us the Sons of God do not sin (1 John 3:9 & 10). Whereas the church tells the world we are saved and therefore, the Sons of God, and we do sin. If the church tells the world the Sons of God sin, and Jesus is the Son of God, they bring Christ down.

Which is what Paul meant in (Romans 10:6-7).
---David on 10/8/21


Apostacy creeps in because the Church lets in anyone before fully vetting. Just finished a documentary, " The Way Down", a bible study that took the Churches by storm not only here but all over the world. The Lord just said it's not Christ-centered, but vanity-centered. There were others, taking over the churches as well, Kay Arthur, The Purpose-driven life, Promise Keepers, etc, etc. THIS is what has infiltrates Churches causing divisions, individuals who proclaimed they had some special revelation gave exclusively to them. And every one of them has caused division. The Way Down proves this. It's on HBO. A must-see.

America is especially vulnerable to these cults because of our laws.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/21


Some think since Christians do not act like Christ, then Christ cant be true.
Yet, among sinners is where the truth of Christ is manifest. Christ didn't come because people could be like him. He came because we couldn't be like him.
He died for sinners, he justifies the ungodly, he chooses the unwise, weak, foolish, to grant salvation freely through faith. Christ is what makes the Christian, or else we are nothing.
This is grace. It's only possible because he accomplished what we could not by his death to pay for sins and then defeating death through resurrection.
It's the actions of God in Christ, not the actions of Christians, that make Christianity good, right, and true.
Christ defines Christianity, not other Christians.
---michael_e on 10/7/21


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The question we must ask ourselves, "Why is the church divided?"

There is one Truth, not many Truths.
So logically, if we all followed theTruth, wouldn't we all be united as one? Truth creates unity, a lie...division.

Now we get to the root of the problem, What is TheTruth?
Personally, I have never seen division amongst those who use the Gospel of Jesus as their foundation. But I have seen many doctrines created, from those who use Paul's Epistles as their foundation.

Now by simple deduction, if one foundation creates unity and the other creates division, upon which foundation should we build? One of these foundations created the Apostasy. Which one?
---David on 10/7/21


The question we must ask ourselves, "Why is the church divided?"

There is one Truth, not many Truths.
So logically, if we all followed theTruth, wouldn't we all be united as one? Truth creates unity, a lie...division.

Now we get to the root of the problem, What is TheTruth?
Personally, I have never seen division amongst those who use the Gospel of Jesus as their foundation. But I have seen many doctrines created, from those who use Paul's Epistles as their foundation.

Now by simple deduction, if one foundation creates unity and the other creates division, upon which foundation should we build? One of these foundations created the Apostasy. Which one?
---David on 10/7/21


Many doctrines are created because of human being don't always do right. Some points do not matter much. Some are vital. The big divisions in church history is the Orthodox vs Catholic.

Then Roman Catholics vs. Protestants. Than Protestants broke up into Those on TULIP of Calvin. Vs. free Will of the Methodist/Arminus.

then into different denominations.

Which is where we are now. But if any one of any group does not love their neighbor and love GOD... Then are not Christians. No matter what sect they are.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/6/21


Many will say, "The will of God, is to believe in Jesus Christ."
What does that mean exactly?
Funny thing, Jesus gives a very clear discernible answer to this question, but when searching the web, I could not find a single teacher that used the words of Jesus Christ to answer this question.
Why?
Because the words of Jesus Christ, the Author of our Salvation, his word undermines their doctrine.

Whereas Paul, well we can spin his words around to say anything we want, as evidenced by the many doctrines which are only founded on his epistles, which apparently... need no witnesses.
---David on 10/5/21


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I agree with StrongAxe, people should see Christ in us. If everyone who calls themselves Christian, would try to act the manner in which Christ taught us to act, this world wouldn't be in the condition it is today.

The question is:
Why don't Christians do what Christ wants us to do?
The answer?
The vast majority of churches teach, making Jesus your Lord, is not a requirement for our salvation.

Many only call Jesus, Lord, but they don't make him Lord.
Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven. (Matthew 7:21)
---David on 10/4/21


Bob:

It doesn't matter which church agenda. When ANY church puts its own agenda ahead of what the Church SHOULD be doing (i.e. preaching the Gospel of Christ and living his teachings), regardless of what that agenda is, it can be problematic.

After a recent hurricane, Joel Osteen refused to open his megachurch to homeless flood victims because had didn't want to ruin his new carpets.

"I was hungry and you fed me me, I was naked and you clothed me" took second place to "I want a shiny and expensive new building".

Or Spanish conquistadores, conquering the New World in name of King and Church. More interested in filling church coffers (and their own pockets) with gold than heaven with souls.
---StrongAxe on 9/29/21


The church agenda are you referring to? There are so many different flavors of churches out there. What types of churches or denominations do you view in the wrong? Which do you view in the right?
---Bob on 9/29/21


Unfortunately, a lot of it is, and Jesus himself said that would happen.

The church SHOULD live by and teach Christ's example. It should NOT be replacing what Jesus taught by its own agenda, condemning others, pushing that own agenda and morality down other people's throats whether they like them or not.

In many parts of the world, Christians are considered toxic for these reasons, actually driving people away from God. Paul very rightly quoted:

Romans 2:24
"'For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you', as it is written"

How horrible it will be at the Last Judgment for God to say "There are people in hell right now, because YOU drove them away from me!"
---StrongAxe on 9/28/21


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