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Gospels Of Circumcision

What are The Gospels of Circumcision and Uncircumcised?

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 ---michael_e on 10/1/21
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Just as the promiseS to Abraham are two entirely different promises, ( the CHURCH was never promised LAND) the New Covenant also has 2 parts as well. Paul clarifies this in 2 Corinthians 3. The New Testament is in Jesus Blood, just as the Everlasting Covenant is in Jesus Blood..Hebrews 13:20-21. If Jesus didn't need to rise from the dead, then Michael_e's gospel is bogus. He can't have it both ways.

Nothing came into effect EVEN THE CHURCH until Jesus died and rose again. Hebrews makes this clear. And this is where Michael_e fails to RIGHTLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH.

Paul understanding these covenants explain to us...Romans 4 Galatians, 1Cor 2:3, who did practice the Lords supper...WITH GENTILES. 1 Cor 11:17-34.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/21


We live under the New Covenant. We live under the Ephesians 2 Covenant. Read Hebrews.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/17/21

Maybe you are a Lost Sheep found.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts:

2Co 3:3, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

Heb 9:15 for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
---Trav on 10/17/21


[We live under the New Covenant.]
The new covenant is a fulfillment of the promise God made with Israel to bring them back to the land and to help them obey the law. As a result this better testament would allow Israel to reap the blessings of Gods covenant made with their fathers (Luke 1:72-75).
The beginning of this New Covenant can be found in Deut 30:1-9,
Prophets also spoke of the new covenant: Jere 31:31-34
Ezekiel describes the empowerment that will accompany the new covenant:
Ezek 36:27
Gather them from all countries (36:24)
Paul says that Jesus was a minister to the circumcision to confirm the promises made unto the fathers (Romans 15:8).
---michael_e on 10/17/21


We live under the New Covenant. We live under the Ephesians 2 Covenant of one people Jew and Gentile are all one. All who accept Jesus are children of Abraham. Which is why we live under Covenant theology. Not Dispensationalism. Read Hebrews.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/17/21


[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
[No scripture says the Church is not under any Covenants.]

Paul says That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: Eph 2:12
you say he's wrong, I'll take his word.
---michael_e on 10/16/21




God, who promises to work in you to will and to do of His good pleasure is a COVENANT PROMISE. Jesus who promises to raise you fron the dead, is a COVENANT PROMISE. The Covenants to Israel the Nation were earthly blessings for obedience. The land etc. The Everlasting Covenant promises Eternal Life through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 13:20-21
20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/21


Wrong, YOUR Gentile forefathers were under the EVERLASTING COVENANT, where Jesus was FORORDAINED before the foundation of the world to take away sin. This covenant was on behalf of mankind. Where the Lambs book of life, rooted in the BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT , is from the foundation of the world. The first names in that book would be Adam and Eve, Abel, Seth, Noah Enouch, Lot, Job, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David , Moses, and more names are added daily , those who BY FAITH believe in the Promises of God.

No scripture says the Church is not under any Covenants. Not even those verses in Ephesians Michael_e takes out of context.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/21


Ephesians 2:12 is plain. Our Gentile forefathers were strangers from covenants of Promise, without hope and without God in this world. But, now in Christ Jesus we are made nigh, not by covenants, but by the Blood of Christ. By the finished work of the Cross, we are now in a greater relationship than covenants, we are joint-heirs with Christ, Romans 8:14-17. The covenants were directed to the nation. In order for the covenants to be fulfilled, Christ had to accomplish the atonement, His sacrifice of Himself. But, by His Grace that was extended beyond covenants, and opened the windows of heaven's salvation to the whole race, . No wonder it can only be appropriated by Faith.
[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
---michael_e on 10/15/21


Here's golden nugget hidden in the OT but now revealed. Adam and Eve. Eve was not created like Adam, Eve was taken from Adams rib. She literally was bone of his bone flesh of his flesh. Being made ONE. The CHURCH is taken from Jesus side, by our BEING Crucified with Christ and raised up a new Creature IN CHRIST. Bone of His Bone Flesh of His Flesh. Our NEW MAN IS JOINED TO JESUS. John 17:23 reiterated in Colossians 3:1-4.

This was never promised to earthly Israel. But to all believers beginning at Pentecost.

But our special calling out during this dispensation is not another way of salvation. There is only one way of salvation. BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/21


Let me further reiterate on Hebrews 13:20-21. This same Covenant between Father Son and Holy Spirit is the exact covenant the Church is blessed by, Romans 8:11-13. We are IN CHRIST JESUS. That is a Covenant beyond our understanding. Unless Michael_e is preaching ANOTHER JESUS not found in scripture.

If God's Covenant is between Father Son and Holy Spirit, we are then recipients of this Covenant God made before the foundation of the world . Ephesians 1:4. So before the foundation of the World God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit made a covenant , that was kept hidden now revealed that God would give His Son a bride, the BOC. Bone of His Bone, Flesh of His Flesh. Also stated as the mystery. Ephesians 5:30
---kathr4453 on 10/15/21




All Gods dealings with man is through covenants. The everlasting covenant is between Father Son and Holy Spirit. Hebrews 13:20-21 will explain.

The way we know cults are a cult is because they can't prove its of God without a Covenant. That's how we know Mormonism, via Joseph Smith was is false because it isn't grounded in a covenant.

So people are saved by being knocked off their horse and that's the Mystery?

This just gets crazier and crazier. Paul was REBUKED by Jesus for murdering Christians in THE CHURCH ....of which Paul then became a member. It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery. Michael_e believes you have to understand instantly or your not a member of the Church.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


If I'm hearing you correctly Michael_e, are you saying there is no such thing as Christians being associated with a Covenant? The scripture's you posted say nothing about excluding covenants. That's a dishonest way of teaching.

Paul shows in 2 Corinthians 3 we are under a Covenant. The New Covenant is in Jesus Blood. Are you saying the Mystery is without the Blood of Jesus? Without faith? No need to believe in God's Promises? Just like that you are slammed to the ground by Jesus Himself and that's proof you are now in the BOC? And you say that is the Mystery? How one gets saved?

So Hyper- dispensationalist's are the same as Hyper-Calvinist's, except Calvinist's believe in a Covenant of Grace.
---Samuel on 10/15/21


God made a covenant with Noah, saying He would never again destroy the earth with a flood. So a covenant is an oath, a promise that is not always conditional. There are unconditional covenants in the Bible and conditional covenants. All God's promises are Covenants with mankind, some conditional as was the law, and some unconditional as with Noah.

We see in Hebrews 6 All God's promises are sealed by an oath, God's Word. That oath is a Covenant. Those promises of eternal life are also sealed by an oath. A Covenant Promise.

John 17 prayer is a covenant promise to the Church.

No one is saved no matter what dispensation you believe you are in without a Covenant.
---Phil on 10/15/21


michael_e states only Paul, not even the Apostles and Prophets knew, yet Ephesians disagrees with him. Also Paul didn't use the word MYSTERY in every one of his epistles. Paul didn't even preach THE MYSTERY at Mars Hill.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone,

Ephesians 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit,

THE HOLY SPIRIT , not Paul , revealed THE MYSTERY TO WHO? The Apostles and prophets.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


The gospel according to the mystery of Christ is unique in that it is freely given to all without Israel, without the Law, and without any covenant.
Paul was saved in a different manner than the 12, by the vision and dialogue No one was ever saved as was Paul.
He was saved apart from the twelve apostles.
He was saved apart from Jerusalem and the Holy Land.
He was saved apart from the Law.
He was saved apart from any and all covenants.
He was saved apart from all good works.

In other words, he was saved on the road to Damascus according to the mystery revelation of Christ (Eph 3:7-9). He was the apostle of the mystery gospel without Israel, without the Law, without covenants (Eph 6:19-20, Rom 11:13, Col 1:25-27).
---michael_e on 10/14/21


Rom 16:25 concerning Christ, stands in contradistinction to what the twelve preached.
Peter spoke of Christ according to prophecy .. spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (Acts 3:21).
Paul taught kept secret from the prophets.
Prophets didn't know Gentile salvation coming through Israels fall (Rom 11:25). Prophets didn't know the boC created separate from Israel (Eph 3:6).
They didn't know salvation would free without covenants and law (Rom 3:21-22).
Prophets spoke of land given to Israel ruling in an earthly kingdom, Paul spoke of Jews and Gentiles reigning in heavenly places (Eph 2:6).
Today we live in the dispensation of grace hidden in God from the foundation of the world (Eph 3:9).
---michael_e on 10/14/21


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Killing the king a sad and wicked thing (Luke 24:17, Acts 2:23) /////

HIM, being delivered by the determinate council and foreknowledge of God AKA GODS WILL

24 Whom God has raised up ..PREACHING THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION

25 -30 King David speaks concerning OT PROPHECY about Jesus death and resurrection. Vs 30 THAT GOD WOULD RAISE UP CHRIST ...

Crucifixion of Christ is our glory (Gal 6:14)/////

The Crucifixion of Christ is to ALL OUR GLORY, NOT JUST GENTILES.Hebrews 2, 1O, 11, 12 and 1 Peter 1:18-25 says Jesus was for-ordained BEFORE the foundation of the world to take away sin. There's only one way that can happen.

Peter preached THE MYSTERY GOSPEL....1Peter 1:18-25.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,////

Here's the PROBLEM Michael_e, Romans 16:25 DOES NOT SAY, what you posted below. Colossians 1:24-27 CLEARLY state what the mystery is...CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY.

Ephesians also clearly backup this MYSTERY , throughout and summarized at the end....BONE OF HIS BONE FLESH OF HIS FLESH. Using marriage, re Adam and Eve as examples. Being ONE IN CHRIST. Just as Jesus prayed in John 17. I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE.

Never promised to earthly Israel.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


Gospel of the Kingdom (Mark 1:14)
Gospel of Grace (Acts 20:24)
The coming king and kingdom (Matt 3:2)
Grace of God for salvation (Rom 3:22-26)
King and kingdom promised to nation of Israel (Luke 1:69)
Grace of God offered freely to all (Rom 3:22)
Kingdom spoken about since the world began (Acts 3:21-25)
Dispensation of Gods grace kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25)
Killing the king a sad and wicked thing (Luke 24:17, Acts 2:23)
Crucifixion of Christ is our glory (Gal 6:14)
Cross of Christ not part of message (Luke 9:2 vs. Luke 18:34)
Requires preaching the cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)
Resurrection not part of the message (John 20:9) Preaching is vain without the resurrection (1 Cor 15:14)
---michael_e on 10/13/21


The gospel of the circumcision concerns the promise made to the circumcision through them the world would be blessed. Michael_e//////

Yes through Israel the whole world is blessed whether one believes it or not, but it's not " A Gospel". It's a statement. Through Israel, they were a light to the Nations, they brought in the Promised Messiah. They were the 12 Apostles of the Lord, they wrote the New Testament. If you call something a Gospel that no scripture calls a Gospel, isn't that the problem?

The preaching of Salvation is the Gospel, and Jesus said SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS.

And you say Paul preached the Kingdom more than Peter and James you say preached the Kingdom????? That's strange.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/21


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The kingdom of God includes heaven and earth
God revealed his purpose for the earth, but never spoke about the positions in heavenly places belonging to the church.
Part of the mystery of Christ talks about the dominion in heaven (Col 1:16).
The kingdom of God includes Israel and the Church
The mystery of Christ introduces a new creature whose conversation is in heaven (Phil 3:20). This is part of the kingdom of God not made known before Paul. Prophecy spoke of the kingdom of God as it will be on the earth, Christ ruling through Israel, the revelation of the mystery speaks of the kingdom of God as it will be in heavenly places, Christ ruling over the church..
---michael_e on 10/13/21


Is using THE KINGDOM OF GOD more than anyone else a plus here, saying Matthew Mark and Luke using it the most of anyone even Paul means something as well You claim is what????? ANOTHER KINGDOM OF GOD???? So on one hand we are to disregard Jesus and the Apostles Kingdom of God, but not Paul's Kingdom of God? How many Kingdom's of God are there now? One for each Gospel. A kingdom of Jews and another Kingdom of Gentiles???? And are you saying THIS IS THE MYSTERY?

Colossians 1:24-27 tell us exactly what the mystery is,CHRIST IN YOU. MORE THAN THE HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU..... Being conformed to His image. Being made ONE, with God in Christ....being a partakers of HIS DIVINE NATURE. Just as 2nd Peter 1 clearly state.
---kath4453 on 10/13/21


Acts 28:31 This verse is used as an objection to mid-Acts right division, but not a good one.
It doesn't address the mystery of Christ revealed first to Paul.
It doesn't mean Paul taught the same message as Peter, James, and John.
Everyone in the church, the body of Christ, is translated into the kingdom (Col 1:13)
Paul uses the word kingdom in his epistles more than Peter, James, and John do in their epistles combined.
---michael_e on 10/13/21


I believe the Gospel is more fully detailed in Romans 5. It expounds upon 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It begins from Genesis 1 to now and forever. Sin entered the world through one man, righteousness entered through another. And from Genesis 3:15 we see the BEGINNING of the Promise of the Messiah. The Law was added so sin would abound. It wasn't added for a new dispensation of another gospel.

Peter preached in Acts 2 all OT prophecy concerning Jesus Christ and testified Jesus IS THE MESSIAH PROMISED .

The Kingdom whatever is not a Gospel.....it's a dispensation. The Law was a dispensation too, but never a gospel. Romans 5 prove this point. ONE GOSPEL, different dispensations.
---kathr4453 on 10/13/21


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Here's another of Paul AFTER being shown things.

Acts 19:6-8

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


Colossians 4:11

11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only are my fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.

If you were to do a word search "The Kingdom of God" is carried out all through out Pauls epistles. Acts 19, 20, 28 Paul states he goes into the Temple and preaches THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

So was Paul preaching two different gospels even in his NT EPISTLES?

Jesus said THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN. So clearly THE KINGDOM OF GOD Is not the restored Kingdom to Israel Peter NEVER PREACHED. ACTS 1:6-7 prove that as well.

So, the Kingdom of God IS NOT the Kingdom restored to Israel.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


Not every person in history had access to the complete revelation from God that we have today in the Bible. Man can only believe the message he is presented, be careful not to place into every verse of Scripture what had not yet been revealed.
By understanding To whom and when the Scripture was revealed we can discover the different gospels, or the contents of faith that lead to righteousness.
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 1:17
---michael_e on 10/12/21


Many assume, with no Scriptural evidence, that the difference between the gospel of the circumcision and the gospel of the uncircumcision is that Paul preached the gospel of salvation by faith to the Gentiles and Peter did not. But Peter did preach the gospel of salvation by faith to the Gentiles which is proved in Acts 15:7-9,

And when there had been much disputing Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel and believe..and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


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John the Baptist and Jesus, in his earthly ministry, taught the gospel of the kingdom. The good news was that the long promised kingdom to Israel was finally at hand, it was nigh.
What is certain is the gospel of the kingdom didn't require knowledge of the cross of Christ, not to mention understanding what it meant.
Luke 9:1-2 Jesus gave power and sent them to preach the gospel of the kingdom of God.
The preaching of the gospel of the kingdom wasn't preaching the cross.
Pauls gospel does include the cross, it's the preaching of the cross. 1 Cor 15:1-4
The disciples in the red letters were ignorant of the gospel of the cross. Yet the preaching of the cross is the power of God unto salvation for the church today (1 Cor 1:18).
---michael_e on 10/12/21


There's only one Gospel. The Gospel of the GOOD NEWS that Jesus died for the sin of the whole world. Revelation says, the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world. Hebrews 11 and 12 clarify this fact. From Adam and Eve Abel, Enoch, Abraham, Noah etc. The ONLY KINGDOM that is to come is the Kingdom restored to Israel that has not begun yet. That did not begin and end from Acts 1 to Acts 13 or whatever.

To the Jews FIRST and then to the Gentile. If you can't find at least 3 scripture clearly explains a Gospel for the Circumcision ONLY, than no such gospel exists

The Gospel has always been about JESUS. And God doesn't divide sinners by the flesh. In Adam aka the flesh, all die, IN CHRIST WILL ALL BE MADE ALIVE.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/21


Gal 2:7 declares 2 gospels to two people
The gospel of the grace of God differs from the gospel of the kingdom. One prophesied the other kept secret since the world began (Mark 1:14-15, Rom 16:25).
The gospel of the circumcision concerns the promise made to the circumcision through them the world would be blessed.
This is the covenant given to Abraham concerning circumcised seed. The circumcision was promised as Gods channel of blessing to the world (all nations). It would be fulfilled among the circumcision in Christ, the true sons of Abraham according to prophecy.
The gospel of the uncircumcision is the good news that uncircumcised can receive blessings apart from Israel and their circumcised covenant promises.
---michael_e on 10/11/21


Correct, law and grace don't mix, an this is why Paul rebuked Peter in Galatia. If Peter were under the Law God chose him to be under and preaching, Paul was out of line rebuking Peter to his face. It took Peter longer to grasp these truths. Just as TODAY we have Gentiles who think they are under the law. How did that happen? Faulty teaching. But as they grow in the grace of God, they shed those teachings. Many today are under false teachings claiming to be Christians, and only by God's Grace come out of it. You are of a different doctrine , hyper-dispensationalism. Then there is hyper-Calvinism. Then WOF false doctrine etc etc. Only God knows who is His and can purge them from false teachings if they OBEY ROMANS 12:1-2 they will see it.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/21


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Michael_e, I have shown scripture to back up , but you reject or see it differently.

God showed Peter he was wrong still being under the Law. It's right there. God showed Peter he was no longer under the Law that forbid going into a Gentiles home.

Peter was the first to even use the word GRACE.

You only see what you want to see. And refuse to see what is there that contradicts your beliefs.

Romans 10:4 applied to then as well as TODAY. JESUS IS THE END OF THE LAW TO THOSE WHO BELIEVE. PERIOD. Not Jesus is the end of the Law after Paul came along.
---kath4453 on 10/11/21


[Michael_e, I don't know what the big fuss is here]
Peter says he is under Law you say no?
[God showed Peter he was NOT UNDER LAW BUT GRACE,]
Acts 10:13,14
"And there came a voice to him, `Rise, Peter, kill, and eat.' But Peter said, `Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.'"
Why does Peter say that? He's under the Law.
The Eunuch, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Who died for me, was buried and rose from the dead." Does your Bible say that? Everybody likes to think it does. But he didn't mention death, burial and Resurrection. What did he believe?) `I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.'
If you have scripture to back up your statements show them
---michael_e on 10/11/21


Michael_e, I don't know what the big fuss is here. Paul often went into the Jewish Temple to preach. There were no other places or churches as we know today. No law, just accessibility.

2) God showed Peter he was NOT UNDER LAW BUT GRACE, and showed him that in a vision, sending him then to Cornelius a Gentile where Peter sees first hand they too receive the Holy Spirit by FAITH NOT LAW, just as the Jews.

So even before Paul, Gentiles were being saved through the same faith as all were. Philip and the Eunuch, etc. And no scripture supports these were Jews or proselytes. Jesus is the end of the law to those who believe. Romans 10:4.

You lack empathy that it takes a while to deprogram from a lifetime of a belief system.
---kathr4453 on 10/11/21


[Peter wasn't preaching the law at Pentecost.]
Peter's and John's message the same except receiving the HS,
Acts 3:1 "NOW Peter and John went up together into the Temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour."
That's Law.
Acts 10:"..Rise, Peter, kill, and eat.' But Peter said, `Not so, Lord, for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.'"
Why does Peter say that? He's under the Law
Acts 10:And he (Peter) said unto them (gentiles), `Ye know how that it is an unlawful ( Peter coming back The Law) thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.'"
Law and Grace don't mix
---michael_e on 10/10/21


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Peter wasn't preaching the law at Pentecost. The Law is not of FAITH, Galatians 3, and Peter clearly testified the Gentiles like them received the Holy Spirit by God's Grace through faith. The Law never promised the Holy Spirit under John the Baptist message or the Law you claim Peter preached. You have not supported your accusation Peter preached the Law. He preached repentance to Jews meaning to change their mind about Jesus. That is not LAW. That's just common sense. Jesus Promised the Holy Spirit, to all who believe in Him. Then and today.

If they weren't sacrificing animals then no law was being preached. I'll bet those who rejected Jesus we're still sacrificing animals and continued in the Law. Do you understand the Law?
---kathr4453 on 10/10/21


[The 12 didn't continue John the Baptist message]
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. Mark 1:4
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, Acts 2:38
very little difference in the wording
[his message was built upon the Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:20-22]
There are apostles and prophets in the BoC 1Cor 12:28, Eph 3:5
Barnabas (Act 14:4, 14), Apollos (1 Cor 4:6,9), Sosthenes (1 Cor 1:1), Silvanus and Timothy (1 Th 1:1, 6, 2:4,6), Epaphroditus (Ph 2:25) Law and Grace don't mix, maybe you have closed your mind
---michael_e on 10/10/21


The 12 didn't continue John the Baptist message because after Jesus started His ministry even John the Baptist message had been fulfilled. He made the way for the Lord. Then John decreased as Jesus increased.

Paul's unique message didn't exclude the 12 or the prophets. Because Paul clearly states his message was built upon the Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:20-22. So we know right there out of Paul's mouth it was not another Gospel like say a Joseph Smith started. So the Mystery HIDDEN, now revealed was hidden in the OT all along. Now it's time to find those hidden gems. If you open your heart Michael_e and let the Lord show you, it's the most awesome experience beyond words. It my be you are too closed minded to see them.
---kathr4453 on 10/10/21


If the 12 preached Paul's gospel of grace WHY PAUL?
Paul uses phrases the gospel and our gospel in his epistles, when Paul mentions my gospel it shows he had a unique message.
Pauls gospel made no distinction between Jew or Gentile. All are counted in unbelief, and judged by God without respect of persons.
During time past, Jesus earthly ministry, up to his encounter with Cornelius, there was a distinction between Jew and Gentile in Peters ministry. The Jews had special spiritual standing with the Lord. Gentiles didn't.
No one else in scripture could claim my gospel, We learned the gospel from Pauls writings, the twelve taught the same gospel as John the Baptist and of which the prophets spoke (Mark 1:4, Mark 1:15, Acts 3:19-21).
---michael_e on 10/9/21


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TODAY of course when we preach Jesus we do preach He died and rose again AKA THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS, ( Unless you believe THE CROSS has a different message,and if so, what is it? ) and that the scriptures have been fulfilled on this point. Sin is no longer covered but COMPLETELY FORGIVEN. OT Saints had to wait for us to be made perfect... Hebrews 11. They were justified, but now are the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT. Hebrews 12. If their perfection came at Jesus resurrection, how on earth are Jews EXCLUDED from perfection AKA FORGIVEN NOW. To say they have to wait is Ludacris. It goes against Hebrews 10. All sin from the beginning to the end has been dealt with IN CHRIST. Excluding Jews is anti-Semitic.
---kathr4453 on 10/9/21


Michael_e it's all right there in scripture from Abel's blood sacrifice to Jobs sacrificing for sin, to all the types and shadows of the priests sacrificing lambs and goats (Hebrews 10), until Jesus came all looked ahead to the Promised redeemer as even Job said , I KNOW THAT MY REDEEMER LIVETH, and as Peter testifies in Acts 2 confirming all OT Prophecy concerning Jesus death and resurrection quoting from the Psalms Davis testified to as well. Many Jews simply rejected that Jesus was the one they were waiting for. Many did not. Paul, until he was struck down on his way to murdering CHRISTIANS was one of them until he believed. And he immediately went and preached JESUS IS THE CHRIST.

What do you think THE CHRIST means?
---kathr4453 on 10/9/21


The preaching of the gospel would be vain without the preaching of the cross (1 Cor 15:14). It is for this reason that the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish. The one who we call Saviour was crucified.

[In the OT they looked ahead to the cross, today we look back]
Do you have scripture that says this?
---michael_e on 10/9/21


Our faith is in Jesus Christ. No scripture say we have faith in the cross. Our faith is in Jesus Christ. It's very simple. How can you rightly divide the word of truth if you make up scripture never spoken. Of course our faith is in the risen Christ today. In the OT they looked ahead to the cross, today we look back.

Our faith is in Jesus who died for our sin. Today our sin is completely forgiven. In the OT sin was only covered year by year until Jesus Blood more than just covered once and for all. Their faith in the promised redeemer saved them just as our faith in the NOW HERE AND NOW fulfilled prophecy saves us. SAME GOSPEL.

OUR FAITH IS IN THE PERSON OF JESUS CHRIST PERIOD.
---kathr4453 on 10/8/21


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The only way to salvation during this present age of grace (1 Cor !5:1-4)
you cant find anywhere else in Scripture that you are to believe that for salvation except in Pauls writings.
From Peters testimony, the apostles didn't preach faith in the cross for salvation, but as murder (Acts 1:22,23, 2:36
Peter tells them Repent, and be baptized..." (Acts 2:38
Acts 3:15 "...And killed the Prince of life.."
Israel has a second chance to believe Jesus is the Christ
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, WHEN the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Acts 3:19-20
---michael_e on 10/8/21


Yes and Jesus death and resurrection was then preached from the beginning of Acts.

Throughout history God has given glimpses of the Gospel. More and more information was revealed about the Savior to come. That is the Gospel. Just because we have more information and the fulfillment of all those prophecies today, now obedient to the Risen Christ, now that we have the promise of the Holy Spirit of course so much more we understand. Today nothing is hidden. It's all the same Gospel.

After the Church is raptured, then the Kingdom on earth will be established. There are no Jews stuck in a Kingdom Come Church that abruptly ended with Paul. Where are those saints today? Floating around in limbo somewhere?
---kathr4453 on 10/8/21


When one seriously looks at Acts, one sees the issue is the Deity of Christ, not two Gospels. Just as Paul preached immediately after his conversion, that Jesus Christ is Lord, so did Apollos, preached to the Jews after understanding more perfectly THE GOSPEL. Jesus actually told His disciples He would die and rise again, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, Isaiah 53. After Jesus rose the Apostles spent 40 days with Jesus after His resurrection, no doubt MORE PERFECTLY understood, and Preached the Risen Christ right from the beginning of Acts, where the only Church began, adding to it thousands every day. Philip explained to the Eunuch Isaiah 53. THE GOSPEL.
---Samuel on 10/8/21


Pricilla and Aquila were not Pauls converts , but fellow workers. Both Jews, like Apollos. If Apollos was in the one Church, Michael says is not the BOC, but when more perfectly understands what Priscilla ans Aquilla show him, he's now transferred out of that Church into Another Church? I can't find any scripture to back that up. Stealing from one Church to another? Where is any scripture Pauls Church stole from that "other Church"?

And is that possible? If they received the Holy Spirit beginning Acts 2, the same Holy Spirit we receive at salvation, was God confused switching these Jews from one church to another, simply because they came to a more perfect understanding (through the help of The Holy Spirit surely? )
---Phil on 10/8/21


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[Paul testifies Apollos is OF THE BOC and preached with Paul]
No doubt about it, but it happened after "..Aquila and Priscilla took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly."
[The full Gospel was not preached while Jesus walked the Earth.]
What was preached?
[All the New Testament was written to the church]
Have you ever studied Matt-John are not actually New Testament? Scripture for it is Heb 9:15-17
The Mosaic Law was the order of the Old Covenant. According to Galatians 4:4, Jesus was born and lived under the Old Covenant. It was not until his death that the New Testament could be made available.
---michael_e on 10/7/21


The Gospel without the cross is no Gospel at all...exactly. There's only 1 Gospel from Gen to Rev promising the Messiah who would die for our sin, and be resurrected for our justification. Abel looked forward to the Cross, when he offered a blood sacrifice. Job said..I KNOW THAT MY "REDEEMER" LIVETH. There is no sufferings of Christ without a cross. Heb 11, Moses chose the sufferings of Christ rather than enjoy the riches of Egypt .

Just as Apollos was taught those things of Christ more perfectly, all saved from Acts 2 on were brought to also understand things more perfectly.

Israel rejected Jesus Christ was the Messiah. God allowed this rejection to ensure "the Gospel" would go to the Gentiles.
---Samuel on 10/7/21


Paul testifies Apollos is OF THE BOC and preached with Paul.

1 Corinthians 4:6
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes, that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

1 Corinthians 16:12
As touching our brother Apollos, I greatly desired him to come unto you with the brethren: but his will was not at all to come at this time, but he will come when he shall have convenient time.
---Samuel on 10/7/21


The gospel taught by Peter and the Lord in his earthly ministry was without the cross. Nobody could be saved in Matthew-John by the gospel of the cross, the only gospel that brings salvation to all today.
Today, preaching the gospel without the cross is vain (1 Cor 1:17-18). There are other gospels in the Bible given to Israel that are without the cross. They would not be vain according to Gods promises to Israel, but they need to be rightly divided from the gospel that saves into the church.
God's not bringing his kingdom to Israel today, but he is ministering the good news of Christ crucified and resurrected for the sins of all. A gospel without the cross is no gospel to lost sinners. The only gospel that saves today requires the cross
---michael_e on 10/7/21


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The full Gospel was not preached while Jesus walked the Earth. But his words are for the church. The Sermon on the Mount is for the church.

John 3 that we must be Born Again is for the church.

All the New Testament was written to the church. Do we have to understand the time. Yes.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/7/21


Acts 18:24 -28 And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord, being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace: For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publicly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
---Samuel on 10/7/21


Fact #1: The gospel Paul preached includes Christ dying for our sins, his burial, and resurrection. 1 Cor 15:1-4
Fact #2: Christ sent his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom. Luke 9:1-6
Fact #3: The twelve disciples did not understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ while they were preaching the gospel of the kingdom. Luke 18:31-34
Conclusion based on the facts: The gospel of the kingdom and Pauls gospel are different messages.
What is certain is that the gospel of the kingdom did not require knowledge of the cross of Christ, Luke 9:1-2
Pauls gospel does include the cross, it is the preaching of the cross. 1 Cor 15:1-4
---michael_e on 10/6/21


What gospel did Jesus and the 12 preach in His earthly ministry
What did the nation of Israel believe?
Rom 10:1,2"Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved."
Paul said in Chapter 9 He would even give up his own Salvation if he could see the nation saved.
What did Apollos know before Aquila and Priscilla?
---michael_e on 10/5/21


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Michael_e, I disagree with you on Romans 10. You can't possibly read the whole chapter and believe Paul is grieved because they believe in that other Gospel you have imagined.

Each dispensation does not have a different Gospel. The same thread of the only Gospel begins in Genesis 3:15 to Revelation. In Adam all die, in Christ will all be made alive. That is the Good news. That's the Gospel. There is no other. You rightly divide the word of truth. Romans 10 Paul is grieved his own have rejected Jesus. The chapter ends making that point.

If your attitude is going to stoop to condescending comments I'm going to have to leave you here.

Paul and Apollos worked together preaching the same Gospel. Accept it and move on.
---Samuel on 10/5/21


Rom !0 speaking of Israelites that are not in the BoC. Takes very little study to see that.
Rom 9 is Paul dealing with Israel's past, and why they have been having the problems that they've had. Chapter 10 deals with how God treats Israel today.
More than 2 gospels (good news)
Hebrews 11:7 tells of Noah's
good news
Gen.15:6 tells of Abrahams good news
Deut 6:25 tells of Moses good news
Paul expounds upon the understanding of Moses when he quotes Leviticus 18:5: in Rom.
10:5
It should be clear that there is not only one gospel in the Bible, but for most it is not..
..."study to show thy self approved.."
---michael_e on 10/5/21


There's only 1 Gospel in scripture. From Genesis to Revelation Jesus SAVES.

Those who insist there is another does not understand the Good News.

ROMANS 10 beginning in verse 1 to the end prove there are not two ways of salvation. If there were Paul would not have said what he said in Romans 10.

Michael_e instead of obsessing over 2 Gospels, just proclaim the Gospel...and let God, not you, worry about the rest. If God sanctioned another Gospel who are you to denounce it?

And if the other is for Jews only why is that your business?

Paul planted Apollos watered and God gave the increase. Seems like your two Gospels are working together. 1 Corinthians 3:6. You said Apollos was Jesus earthly ministry.
---Samuel on 10/5/21


1. Salvation is only on the basis of the death, blood, and resurrection of Christ for your sins.
2. This is the only gospel that saves today.
3. There is more than one gospel in the Bible.

Failure to rightly divide shows a person misunderstands one of these gospel statements. Rejecting any of the three statements confuses the scripture.

Statement 1 and 2 are needed to be saved. Statement 3 is needed to make sense of the Bible. You cant find the gospel of your salvation (statement 1) anywhere other than Pauls epistles in the Bible.

If they understand the gospel of Christ, they can identify what it is not (Deu 6:5, Matt 3:2, John 3:16, Acts 2:38). If they cant tell the difference go back to steps 1 and 2.

.
---michael_e on 10/5/21


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Just as Abraham received the sign of Righteousness after he believed, that is circumcision , we receive the sign of Righteousness, Colossians 2 describe, the circumcision of putting off the sin of the Flesh by the circumcision of Christ. Circumcision pointed to the 8th Day, the Day Jesus rise from the dead, a new Day, the Day David attested to, All sealed by the Holy Spirit. Our sign.

The mystery was hidden in the Old Testament, it wasn't non existent. And only the Holy Spirit can give revelation of these types and shadows to the believer.

Baptism didn't save me, Jesus did. I was not ashamed of openly identifying with Jesus Christ into His death and resurrection life. Wouldn't change that for anything.
---Samuel on 10/5/21


Abraham was given two promises. One spiritual. The BoC, and one earthly, nation of Israel
"Even as Abraham believed God, and it (his believing was accounted to him for righteousness." (Genesis 12:1)
Abraham, was saved by faith plus nothing, no baptism,
He didn't bring a sacrifice, he didn't keep a set of commandments, he didn't get baptized in the Jordan, he didn't do anything but believe God
Galatians says we are to believe God as Abraham did. compare scripture with scripture.

Rom 4:2-3 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. 3. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed not in God, but believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness."
---michael_e on 10/4/21


Abraham did sacrifice as did Abel, Job etc. When asked to sacrifice Isaac, God interviewed and provided a ram for the sacrifice. A practice Abraham already was doing. All those from Abel on who's faith was in the promised redeemer sacrificed.

All sacrifice pointed to Jesus Christ from Abel until Christ. John the Baptist said Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Hebrews 10 show animal sacrifice only covered sin until Jesus Christ and His sacrifice of Himself made all those once covered now COMPLETE. No one has to wait until some imaginary Kingdom, something other than the Kingdom restored to Israel to be forgiven. We are forgiven the moment we place our faith in Jesus Christ for the forgivness of sin.
---Samuel on 10/4/21


Yes, So in Isaac will thy seed be called. This is parallel with Romans 4 you said was to you.

So the promised seed which is Christ came through ISAAC, not Ishmael. Then through Jacob then through Judah re David. Just as Paul stated in Romans 1:3 and reiterated in Hebrews 2.

Abraham was given two promises. One spiritual , and one earthly.

Please rightly divide the differences between these two.

Abraham was imputed righteousness when he believed God for Isaac. But you must also believe our faith doesn't stop there. We continue to live by faith Paul calls obedience of faith, which is our sanctification. Acts 26:18. Our sanctification is also by faith. Abraham's faith was tested when asked to sacrifice Isaac.
---Samuel on 10/4/21


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Gal 3:16 "Now to Abraham and his seed (the singular seed, Isaac, were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many, but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ
Gal 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed, (doesn't make you a Jew, we become the offspring of Abraham in the realm of the spirit.

As a believer of the Gospel we are one in Christ, and in the Body, and heirs of the promises made to Abraham.
Abraham was saved by faith + nothing we are also. Did Abraham bring sacrifices for salvation? Was Abraham circumcised before he had salvation? Was Abraham under the Law? What did Abraham do to merit salvation, He simply believed God. So he is the first to really be saved by faith + nothing!
---michael_e on 10/4/21


Michael_e, for your sake I'm over the moon that Paul clarified your verses in Genesis as Paul also addresses this same promise in Galatians to the Gentiles. Israel has blessed us and the whole world with OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. Even Paul in Romans 1:3 reiterate this truth.


Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to your Seed, who is Christ.

Galatians 3:29
And if you are Christs, then you are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise
---Samuel on 10/4/21


The gospel of the circumcision concerns the promise made to the circumcision that through them the world would be blessed. The emphasis is on through them, or as the prophets said it in thy seed, the circumcised seed (Gen 22:17-18).

This is the covenant given to Abraham concerning his circumcised seed. The circumcision was promised to be Gods channel of blessing to the world (all the nations). It would be fulfilled among the circumcision in Christ, the true sons of Abraham according to prophecy.
---michael_e on 10/3/21


Galatians 2:7 refers to two gospels perhaps you have not heard before.

One reason you may have never heard about them is that the gospels in this verse are removed or changed in other Bible translations.
---michael_e on 10/3/21


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