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What Is Rightly Dividing The Word

Why did Paul tell Timothy to rightly divide?

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 ---michael_e on 10/11/21
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You can find gospel messages in the Bible before the gospel of grace surrounding the covenants, Israel, the Commandments, baptism, the Messiah, and the kingdom. People cause confusion when they fail to distinguish between the gospel of the kingdom and the mystery gospel of the grace of God.
No one before the revelation of the mystery of Christ understood the significant meaning of the death of Jesus to all men (Luke 18:34).
The mystery of Christ is the gospel of the grace of God. It is the preaching of the cross for salvation. No one before the revelation of the mystery understood how faith alone could justify sinners (James 2:24). The gospel of grace was kept secret from humanity (1 Cor 2:7-8).
---michael_e on 11/1/21


[Some provokers here want you and I too clash / debate. Nah, you are searching hard, i am also. 25 years now]
I respect your right to believe and print what you believe. If we disagree, so what, maybe we can learn from each other. 48 years for me
---michael_e on 10/31/21


No Apostle or Christ used the word Church. Greek speakers and writers would have used: ekklesia. , a calling out, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community or both): - assembly,
Total KJV occurrences: 115
Christ & Apostles search was for the Lost Sheep of the Nth House of Israel. Judah Levi was not scattered or lost.
Christ did not fail nor did the Apostles.
False preachers false doctrines fail.
Eze 34:30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.

Eze 34:31. ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, men, I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.
---Trav on 10/30/21


IN THE LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa 45:25
Throughout the prophetic writings finding refuge in the Lord was a common theme.
---michael_e on 10/29/21

Some provokers here want you and I too clash / debate. Nah, you are searching hard, i am also. 25 years now. Whether you like me or not, appreciate you and Davids service to country. Seen you two were a different grade in fortitude.
Like your focus on phrase in Christ or in the Lord. New search to me. We may differ a little but, search is the same. Truth / Light.

Our refuge also.
---Trav on 10/30/21


So this is what Michael_e leaves out. The fellowship of His sufferings. How we are being CONFORMED to the image of Jesus Christ. And so much more.

This IS the mystery of the Church.

Anyone can say: This is a tree, it has bark. It is 2900 years old. It's leaves are green. It only grown in this part of the world.

But if a tree could talk, the tree would be telling us things beyond the surface.

The Church began in Acts 2. There is no mysterious EXTRA dispensation not in scripture between Acts 1 and 13. No scripture says there was. It's all conjecture on HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISTS doctrine. They OVERLY divide the Word of truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/21




How could everyone in the OT look forward to a Roman cross, that hadn't been invented. They can't look forward to what they didn't know.
John the Baptist daddy wasn't looking forward.
Peter wasn't looking forward, he actually tried to prevent it.
---michael_e on 10/30/21


Michael_e, I am a dispensationalist. I believe the CHURCH is the Mystery kept secret. I believe we are SAVED the same as all who are saved through out history, BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST, OT looking ahead to the Cross, we looking back.

I also believe those saved during THIS DISPENSATION God has a special plan and purpose for us..NOT A DIFFERENT WAY OF SALVATION .

Michael_e has a different belief system. He thinks salvation itself is the mystery, and Jesus death and resurrection is the mystery.

NO.... THE CHURCH IS THE MYSTERY. Colossians 1:24-27. The Church is not THE NATION OF ISRAEL. We are a whole NEW THING. We are not SAVED different, but our POSITION in God's plan is different. This is what Paul has to teach us.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/21


Galatians 3:26-28

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

So again, NO, NO ONE WAS BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST in the OT, nor will anyone be during the KINGDOM AGE.

THE CHURCH IS BAPTIZED INTO CHRIST. It's what constitutes HIS BODY. We are members of HIS BODY.

LEARNING TO DIVIDE 101. This is what the Lord taught me. I'll hold that dear to my heart FOREVER.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/21


OK, let's go with Michael_e's thinking. GRACE is also used 30 some times in the OT, so Paul's dispensation of Grace and Gospel of GRACE is nothing new or about the Mystery either.

But interestingly nowhere in the OT is "IN CHRIST" used, and wasn't used until PAUL uses it 75 out of 78 times, beginning at the end of Acts. So the BOC according to Michael_e are not those spiritually baptized into Christ as 1 Corinthians teach. Not only is Christ in us, but we are also IN CHRIST. HID with Christ in God, just as John 17 prayer states, ..this is about the BOC. COLOSSIANS 3:1-4 RIGHTLY DIVIDING .

Genesis 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, ..........
---kathr4453 on 10/29/21


Im exasperated at you ,***

What need do I have to post "Israel's scripture"?
---wrongAxe on 10/29/21

You are exasperated because I post Israels specific scripture you are saying.
Words like covenant, forever, everlasting, only, and servant provoke silence, change of subject and angry attack.
Agenda? Israel is the context. I context by witnesses Israels entire written history OT and NT.

The misinterpretation is your problem in that all Prophets, Christ and Apostles agree. Except with you.

Jer 31:36If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

Ordinances are still there.
---Trav on 10/29/21




78 times the phrase in Christ Paul uses it 75 times.
When Paul describes Junia and Andronicus being in Christ before me, some think those before Paul taught the same thing. This would be wrong, just being in Christ isn't the mystery kept secret(Rom 16:25). The prophets and the Lord in his ministry to Israel talked about being in him.(Christ)
IN THE LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa 45:25
Throughout the prophetic writings finding refuge in the Lord was a common theme. Being glad, and resting in the Lord were common admonitions.
Peter and the twelve, along with Adronicus and Junia, had to be in Christ according to Gods earthly prophetic purpose.
In him, in Christ, in the Lord same thing
---michael_e on 10/29/21


Trav:

You wrote: You make my point almost your every reply. Angry. I post Israels scripture. You get mad. Wow.

For the umpteenth time: I am not angry at Israel's scripture. I've repeatedly say I AGREE with it. I'm exasperated at you for misinterpreting it by ignoring all parts that aren't convenient to your agenda. In your last message, you didn't quote "Israel's scripture". You quoted John, from the New Testament, in justification for accusing US of being angry.

What need do I have to post "Israel's scripture", since you already do so? What more could I add that you don't already know?
---StrongAxe on 10/29/21


Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Let's review this verse AGAIN. There were no Apostles in the OT. So michael_e's desperation to swat this verse under the rug just won't do. These Apostles began either during ACTS 1 or 2, or somewhere after Jesus resurrection, seeing they were called Apostles as was all the 12 and Barnabas.

Were ( past tense) IN CHRIST, meaning SAVED before Paul was, His fellow Kingsman, Jews.

I love how the Lord with one verse can wipe our the foundation of a cult. God sees beginning from end, and knew Bullingerism needed to be rebuked. Those in this CULT should listen up.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/21


Exactly right WIVV. Same in Galatians and Philippians. A little leaven ruins the whole lump. The leaven of the Pharisees was mixing law with Grace. We still today need to make sure the leaven of the Pharisees isn't mixed in with GRACE. We have some here on line who think the Pharisees were and are still awesome.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21


At the time Paul was writing to Timothy, he was the Christian leader at the church in Ephesus. In this church were Judaizers, who were Jews that were claiming some of the O.T. Law had to be added to salvation for a person to become a Christian. Paul was telling Timothy this was false and to allow the Judaizers to try and force this on others as needed for salvation was false and he,(Timothy) needed to "Rightly divide" the truth. Today we would say, "Use the correct context."
---WIVV on 10/28/21


We are taught in John 15, that to bear fruit we are to abide IN HIM. Romans 7 Paul is telling individual Jews that they must die to the Law in order to bring forth FRUIT unto God. So clearly the LAW even Kingdom LAW cannot bring forth the kind of fruit God is looking for. There is no such thing as a covenant of Fruit. Galatians 5:22-25 one must be crucified with Christ to bring forth FRUIT. SO Jews WERE SAVED forgiven and IN CHRIST which means they are SAVED, and in the BOC,BEFORE PAUL WAS as Paul testified in the verse I posted in Timothy.

You are completely tearing down your own doctrine trying to explain away what being IN CHRIST AKA IN HIM MEANS. You should do a thorough study of Ephesians. It is part of the MYSTERY, and BOC.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21


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Trav:
You wrote: When scripture makes them angry it is a mark and a sign.

Who is "angry at scripture"? Kathr isn't, and I'm not. While I can't speak for her, what makes me angry***,
---wrongAxe on 10/28/21

You make my point almost your every reply. Angry. I post Israels scripture. You get mad. Wow.
Specific scripture I post links to another like a chain so scattered, lost (Sheep) Israel will see, hear and believe. Anyone can link these light beacons and receive light. freeing themselves from mens doctrines.
Not everyone will.
You dont, never have, never will post Israels scriptures. I will /do for anyone searching light. Millions of lumens available by asking and searching.
---Trav on 10/28/21


Trav:

You wrote: When scripture makes them angry it is a mark and a sign.

Who is "angry at scripture"? Kathr isn't, and I'm not. While I can't speak for her, what makes me angry is when people ABUSE scripture, by deliberately misinterpreting it and twisting it to say the exact opposite of what it actually says, as you frequently do.

You teach an "Israel-only" doctrine which is different than what has been taught by most Christians all over the world for almost 2000 years, yet you have the arrogance to believe that in two millennia, God would leave all of his believers to wander around in the dark believing a lie, but revealing his true purpose only to you?
---StrongAxe on 10/28/21


Michael_e, now you are catching on, your beginning to see John is about GRACE, not the earthly Kingdom. "I in them and thou in me that we may be ONE" YOU WONT SEE IN MATTHEW or OT Kingdom teachings. Notice Jesus prayed this right before going to THE CROSS, and what Jesus is asking for as a result of His death and resurrection.

Earthly Israel belongs to THE FATHER, The Church belongs TO JESUS CHRIST.

We ( both Jew and Gentile making one NEW MAN, were CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world, Just as Paul teaches re THE CHURCH in Ephesians .

But this truth was only revealed AFTER His resurrection,
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21


Just as the Truth makes Kathrine angry, listening to lies, which lead folks away from the Lords promised salvation, makes us angry too.
---David on 10/24/21

When scripture makes them angry it is a mark and a sign.
When they presume to be a authority teacher with no witnesses instead of a quiet student. Unreachable, unteachable.
False doctrines have no witnesses.
Sure makes opportunity to post scripture to those that can see and hear.
Joh 12:35Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth.
---Trav on 10/27/21


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Being in Christ isn't the mystery of Christ kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25). The prophets and the Lord in his ministry to Israel talked about being in him.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa 45:25
---michael_e on 10/26/21


So michael_e says the BOC WAS IN THE OT. Only those in the BOC are IN CHRIST. The exact same meaning. When we read IN CHRIST, WE KNOW it means the BOC.

When pulling up ALL SCRIPTURE using the words together IN CHRIST, it's iexclusively referring to the BOC, which Michael_e used to believe was part of the mystery. We get there by being BAPTIZED INTO HIS DEATH and then raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE. THE MYSTERY OF THE CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/21


[No OT scripture says anyone then was IN CHRIST. No one was IN CHRIST until Jesus rose from the dead.] Wrong
In Him is to be in Christ
That Israel needed to be found in the Lord was nothing new. Christ taught they needed to be in Him, and that they would be one with the Father (John 17:21). Those in Christ according to prophecy were part of Israels kingdom covenants (John 15:5).
Jesus taught his disciples to abide in him (John 15:4)
---michael_e on 10/27/21


Earthly Israel will certainly SEE The Glory of the Lord, that is for sure. Just read Zechariah 14:7-8 That day will be so bright with HIS GLORY there will be no night or day on that day. However THE CHURCH will be Glorified TOGETHER WITH CHRIST, why, because we are IN CHRIST, AND WE ARE HIS BODY.

This is the mystery , just as Ephesians shows, bone of His Bone Flesh if His Flesh. Being made ONE.

No OT scripture says anyone then was IN CHRIST. No one was IN CHRIST until Jesus rose from the dead.

Unfortunately Michael_e has rejected all OT that is able to also make him wise.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/21


Galatians 3:26-28 gives us insight into the phrase in Christ and what it means. "In Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Paul is speaking to the Christians in Galatia, reminding them of their new identity since they placed their faith in Jesus Christ. To be "baptized into Christ" means that they were identified with Christ, having left their old sinful lives and fully embracing the new life in Christ.


This was not taught in the Old Testament.
---Phil on 10/27/21


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Being in Christ isn't the mystery of Christ kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25). The prophets and the Lord in his ministry to Israel talked about being in him.
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa 45:25
---michael_e on 10/26/21


Trav:
You wrote: Middle wall of division is between the Nth House of Israel and the Sth House.

You are obsessed with the division between houses. I
---StrongAxe on 10/26/21

What an unintended honor, a blessing really, being called obsessed for posting Truth.

Isa 8:14. he shall be for a sanctuary, but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, .
Isa 8:20. To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Eze 37:22. I will make them one nation one king shall be king to them all: they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:
---Trav on 10/27/21


2 Timothy 3:15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

This is an outstanding verse. Paul talking to Timothy. Timothy from a child, long before Paul knew him, had known the holy scriptures , this would be the Holy scriptures of the Old Testament, that were able to make him wise UNTO SALVATION through faith WHICH IS IN CHRIST JESUS.

So we know the Apostles letters were not called The Holy Scriptures at that time. And this proves Paul preached the same salvation that the Holy Scriptures taught.

I believe Michael_e is confusing salvation with revelation. We are not saved by revelations.
---Samuel on 10/27/21


Romans 16:7
Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

One thing we need to do is not explain away verses because they don't fit into our doctrine. That is wrongly dividing truth.

I believe this verse shows Jews who are called Apostles, Paul's Kingsman meaning they were fellow Jews were IN CHRIST BEFORE PAUL. SO this proves those from Acts 2 are also IN CHRIST. Those IN CHRIST are those baptized into the same BODY OF CHRIST aka the Church.

Paul could not be in two churches. This verse also comes right before Romans 16:25-27.
---kathr4453 on 10/26/21


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The Bible tells us what the Gospel that saves is. No one can agree on what it is, or how to preach it. There are many Christian slogans in personal testimonies causing doubt as to whether self-named Christians are actually trusting the gospel of Christ or not. People receive Jesus, renounce sin, and believe in God "ask Jesus into your heart" Failure to rightly divide often results in unsaved people thinking they are.

One reason for people disbelieving is supposed contradictions. The majority of these apparent contradictions are resolved by rightly dividing the word of truth. Without right division, the Bible doesn't mean what it says, or has mistakes.
---michael_e on 10/26/21


Trav:

You wrote: Middle wall of division is between the Nth House of Israel and the Sth House.

You are obsessed with the division between houses. It's practically the only thing you ever talk about. NT is not entirely about Israel. It's not mentioned all that often. "Nth House" and "Sth House" are never mentioned by those names at all.

Yes, Israel is part of God's plan, but by obsessing about only that, you ignore his plans for everyone and everything else.

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself, by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Not "just Israel".
---StrongAxe on 10/26/21


Iexplain Ephesians where God broke down the middle wall between us making one new man.
---Samuel on 10/17/21

Middle wall of division is between the Nth House of Israel and the Sth House.
Ten of the Nth House divorced / put away. Jer 3:8. I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, given her a bill of divorce, yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Israels law is once divorced, husband has to die to free the wife for remarriage. Jer 3:1.

Rom 7:2. For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth, but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
---Trav on 10/25/21


Gal 6:14 God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Nowhere does Paul say the Cross itself is glorious. Death on a Cross, the Roman way of killing murderers etc. But to glory in the Cross, listen to what Paul says....I AM CRUCIFIED TO THE WORLD AND THE WORLD TO ME. Exactly what Philippians 3 is all about. Nothing saying only Gentiles are saved, or Jews excluded from the BOC, or no covenant. NO, PAUL CLEARLY STATES THE CROSS is our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life....which includes we are crucified to this world. We are seated with Christ in heavenly places IN CHRIST. Jew and Gentile making ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21


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PAUL RE THE CHURCH:
Acts 20:28
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

PETER RE THE CHURCH.
1 Peter 1:18-19
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed AKA PURCHASED...with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers,

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21


The Gospel ACCORDING TO THE MYSTERY was kept secret, it doesn't say the gospel was kept secret.

Seeing the kingdom was not being restored , the only GOOD NEWS THEN was salvation for WHOSOEVER WILL...meaning INDIVIDUALS, not GROUP SALVATION, RE ISRAEL THE NATION.

In this dispensation both Jew and Gentile are baptized INTO CHRISTS DEATH AND RESURRECTION LIFE, making ONE NEW MAN, never heard of before. We then becoming partakers of His Divine Nature, 2 Peter 1.

Many saved today don't grasp THE MYSTERY OF CHRIST IN YOU, THE HOPE OF GLORY. Here again Jesus prayed in John 17.....GLORIFIED WITH CHRIST, ( the mystery) never promised to the nation of Israel. But NOTE Romans 8:17 very carefully.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21


Is the gospel the cross or the kingdom? Mark 1:14-15 & 1 Cor 15:1-4
Was the cross glorious or shameful? Acts 3:13-15 & Gal 6:14
Was the gospel made known or kept secret? Rom 16:25 & Acts 3:21
Did the twelve understand the gospel or not? Luke 9:2 & Luke 18:34
Do we preach gospel of the kingdom or of Grace? Luke 9:2 & Acts 20:24
Justification with or without works? Rom 4:5 & James 2:24
Was Christs blood shed for many or for all? Mat 20:28 & 1 Tim 2:6
Do animal sacrifices atone for sins? Lev 16:27 & Heb 10:4
Is God imputing sins against us? Acts 5:1-10 & Rom 4:8
---michael_e on 10/25/21


Absolutely Samuel, the New has partially fulfilled the old. God is not divided into a God for Jews and a God for Gentiles. Michael_e makes it sound like no one was ever saved before Gentiles. It's clearly anti_Semitic what Hyper-Dispensationalists teach. And the more Michael_e reveals of what they do believe is disturbing.

We agree there, except the Church is not Israel. The Church is a whole new Creature who are called out in this dispensation.....neither Jew or Gentile. If that's the case then it can't be a Israel. There is no NEW ISRAEL in scripture either.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/21


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John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

What "day" was Abraham looking to? Did Abraham know about the Kingdom being "restored" to Israel? I think not. Unless God told Abraham in a vision Israel would be scattered and then restored?

So Michael_e doesn't connect the promises in the Old Testament of the Messiah with Paul's Jesus? John the Baptist "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" doesn't apply to the Church? The prophecy of Isaiah 53 is not fulfilled at THE CROSS?

Thank you for sharing this with us Michael_e. You preach another Jesus. Paul did not. And I assume you are saying the Bereans are not part of the body of Christ?
---Samuel on 10/24/21


Those who rightly divide the truth can read from beginning to end and end to beginning and not have any issues about how all fall into place. Just because one can say the alphabet backwards doesn't change the alphabet. It shows they have it accurately in place and can state it frontwards and backwards.

Those unlearned can't do this as it is confusing to them, because they are not rooted and grounded in TRUTH that never changes regardless.

So Michael_e, you just gave yourself away you are not rooted and grounded in the Truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/21


We need the Old Testament to help us understand much of the New. 2Timothy 3:15-17 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The New needs the Old. The New is what the Old is pointing to. So we cannot truly understand the Old without the new and vice versa. AGape
---Samuelbb7 on 10/24/21


Reading a story backwards is confusing. The characters seem to unlearn information as you read from the end to the beginning.
Read from end to beginning Red Riding Hood wanted to be eaten by the wolf.
Just as silly is when people read the Bible from end to beginning, teaching everyone in the OT was looking forward to the cross.
Thinking Abraham believed in Christ when he offered his Son or those under Moses law looked to Christ when they offered a sacrifice. This is reading the Bible backwards, reading the end back into the beginning.
Read properly from beginning to end, it's clear God reveals his will progressively, and no one was looking forward to the cross, because it was hid in God until it was time to make it known.
---michael_e on 10/23/21


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Yep, Genesis 3:15, the very slim light of THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION was why Abel sacrificed blood that pointed to the LAMB SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD. HEBREWS 10 WILL EXPLAIN that Animal sacrifice only covered sin year after year until Jesus sacrifice of Himself ONCE AND FOR ALL.

Abraham sacrificed, ( even Job sacrificed) and one year was asked to sacrifice Isaac.... Where God revealed to Abraham in a vision THE RESURRECTION.

In Isaac will thy seed be called THE SEED IS CHRIST , the FINAL sacrifice for sin, and the ONLY WAY to resurrection. Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION.

This foundation is a MUST to rightly divide the Word of Truth. Without this foundation, you are only dividing chip beef from ham.
---kathr4453 on 10/23/21


Good news for Abel. No mention of a Cross
Heb 11:4 "By faith Abel (believed God? He did something) offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,
Good news for Noah
Heb 11:7 "By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear (and what did he do?) prepared an ark to the saving of his house,
People read the Bible from end to beginning, teaching everyone in the OT was looking Isaiah, Jeremiah, Malachi, and Daniel all prophesied of the coming Messiah, but none of them understood what the prophecy meant when it spoke of the sufferings of Christ.
1 Peter 1:10-11
---michael_e on 10/23/21


There is no such thing as the Gospel without the Cross. If Jesus was put to death on a ping pong table, would we then have the Gospel of the Ping Ping table? The Lamb SLAIN from the foundation of the world Revelation 13:8. This is the preaching of the cross. The very same Jesus.

But now AFTER THE CROSS, we have more promises fulfilled in the risen Christ. Hebrews 10 will explain.

Funny how you preach a bloodless cross Michael_e. The Covenant in JESUS BLOOD only came via THE CROSS. And Paul reiterates Jesus words of the Covenant. Right there in Corinthians.

Address these issues Michael_e. Ignoring them isn't doing your doctrine any favors.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/21


We become members of the BoC By faith + nothing. Abraham became the Friend of God and his righteousness because of his faith + nothing also. This was done by believing what God said.
Adam, Abel, Seth, Noah, and all the way up to Abraham, how did they come into a right relationship with God, faith + nothing? It was faith + sacrifice. They couldnt approach God without the sacrifice Even in Christs earthly ministry, Jesus never taught the concept of a salvation by faith and faith alone. They were still to adhere to the Law of Moses, they also had the added responsibility of repentance and water baptism, + their faith.
---michael_e on 10/22/21


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Peter did not teach the mystery of Christ to Cornelius. Acts 10 Peter is still observing the law of commandments that Jesus bid him observe in Mat 23:1.
Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation, Acts 10:28
The mystery of Christ teaches we are no longer under the law.
---michael_e on 10/22/21


The CROSS is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. It's not some magical CROSS or faith in a wooden stake. All sorts of pagan cross-less religions that go back to the beginning of time.

Abel, Enoch, Noah, Lot, Abraham etc were/ are SAVED and are saved the same way we are... FAITH IN THE REDEEMER.

ISAIAH 53 Clearly foretold of Jesus death. So Jesus death and resurrection IS NOT THE MYSTERY THAT WAS KEPT SECRET.

SO you keep saying CROSS THIS AND CROSS THAT, but do you even know it's meaning? You think it means something different for Jews and something different for Gentiles? Ok so why say Cornelius was not part of the BOC? AND EXPLAIN AGAIN Apollos?
---kathr4453 on 10/22/21


The gospel taught by Peter and the Lord in his earthly ministry was without the cross. Nobody could be saved in Matthew-John by the gospel of the cross, which is the only gospel that brings salvation to all men today.

Today, preaching the gospel without the cross is vain (1 Cor 1:17-18). There are other gospels in the Bible given to Israel that are without the cross. They would not be vain according to Gods promises to Israel, but they need to be rightly divided from the gospel that saves into the church.
God is not bringing in his kingdom to Israel today, but he is ministering the good news of Christ crucified and resurrected for the sins of all men. A gospel without the cross is no gospel to lost sinners.
---michael_e on 10/22/21


The very same death and resurrection Peter preached, prophecied, is the very same death and resurrection Paul states in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Same Gospel same way of salvation. OT Saints looked forward to that which was prophesied and their faith was in the Same promise as ours looking back, THAT JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR OUR SIN. Same Jesus, same death and resurrection resulting in the same outcome ROMANS 10. THAT THE LAW COULD NEVER SAVE, nor did scripture ever say it could.

Peter states in 2 Peter 1 we are partakers of HIS DIVINE NATURE, aka CHRIST IN YOU. AND THAT WE SHARE THE SAME GRACE. Earthly Israel was never promised to partake of HIS, CHRIST'S Divine nature. Only the CHURCH is promised this, and to share in His Glory. John 17.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/21


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We need to judge fairly. Paul according to Luke's writing of Acts never once uses the word CROSS OR MYSTERY. And Paul didn't write his first epistle almost 10+ years after his salvation. It was Galatians. THE CROSS is used, but the word MYSTERY is not. The theme of THE CROSS in Galatians is CHRIST IN YOU, Gal 2:20-21. FORMING CHRIST IN THEM AGAIN. It being about FAITH. Gal 3. The same FAITH Peter preached in Acts 2 re receiving The Holy Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/21


Michael_e, Actually neither did Paul as we see when Paul got saved, all he did at first is go into the Temple and preach that Jesus is the Christ. That Jesus is the Messiah they were looking for.

He spent the first 3 years on the back side of a mountain studying. So even Paul did not INSTANTLY understand or preach THE MYSTERY. If he had Luke would have clearly recorded that in Acts.

You've only imagined a new gospel in Acts 13. And as Phil states here, ONE FAITH, ONE SPIRIT ETC. PAUL WAS CLEARLY SAYING THERE WERE NOT TWO.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/21


Peters Pentecostal ministry wasn't according to the mystery of Christ.
Everything he preached, Christ, his death, and resurrection was prophesied (Acts 2:16, 2:25, 3:21).
Peter didn't mention the new creature of Christ (2 Cor 5:17) or church union with Christ, or the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9, Eph 4:3-6, 1 Cor 10:16).
He spoke things foretold by prophets about Christ, the kingdom, and salvation (Acts 3:24, 4:12).
The boC operates according to the mystery of Christ (Eph 5:32, 1 Cor 2:7, Rom 16:25).
The disciples Acts 2 sold their possessions (Acts 2:44-45), continued in the temple (Acts 3:1), ministered to Israel only (Acts 2:22, 3:12), preached prophecy (Acts 3:18-22), and performed signs of the kingdom (Acts 4:22).
---michael_e on 10/19/21


Jesus began building His Church at the beginning of Acts. He clarified to the Apostles that only the Father knew when the KINGDOM RESTORED TO ISRAEL would be. Just as Jesus also said in Matthew 24-25. SAME KINGDOM.

Jesus gave a glimpse in the 4 Gospels saying MY KINGDOM IS NOT OF THIS WORLD. So we do have 2 Kingdoms here, a heavenly one, and an earthly one. The earthly one is referred to in Matthew as The Kingdom of Heaven defined as "on earth as it is in heaven"

michael_e has some things correct re THE CHURCH is not the NATION OF ISRAEL. But also remember the promises TO THE NATION , it must first become a NATION. That didn't happen until 1948. It didn't happen in Acts 1-13. A serious bible student would know this.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/21


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Michael_e, you'll just have to follow Pauls timeline : saved, 33-36 , first spending 3 years alone studying, then being carried up to the 3rd heaven where he states in Corinthians 2Cor 12:1-4, when he wrote it in 55ad leaves approx 14 or so years before writing his first epistles. Galatians 48, 1-2 Thess 50-51, 1-2 Corinthians 54-55, Romans 57, Phil, Philemon, (Colossians Ephesians 62, WHERE THE MYSTERY IS STATED MORE THAN ANY OTHER EPISTLES) 1,2 Timothy, 64-65, Titus 67, then Pauls death.

I would say it took from Pauls first letter to his last , as Paul LEARNED ON THE JOB, through the fellowship of his sufferings WE TOO NEED TO FOLLOW, to grasp the MYSTERY in a clear understanding. Did John fully understand Revelation? NO.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/21


The Kingdom is ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN, not heaven come to earth. That will take place when THE KING, Jesus, comes at the second coming to set up His Throne right here on earth, in Jerusalem. Zechariah 12-14. This will happen after the Church is complete and raptured, and we will reign and rule with Christ for 1000 years. It didn't start in Acts 1 and end in Acts 13, because Israel had not yet become a nation where Gentile power was overthrown, as Judas expected to happen then, and why he betrayed Jesus.

When that happens, it will not start and stop at the will of man. It will happen AFTER the Church ( MYSTERY) is complete. Rev 10:7 and then the Great a Tribulation will take place FIRST. THEN that dispensation will begin.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/21


Jesus instructs us to identify Paul as our pattern (1 Tim 1:16, 1 Cor 4:16, 1 Cor 11:1). A failure to operate according to the Lords revelations to Paul often leads to frustration with denominational traditions.
The church is not a kingdom or a nation. Being seated in heavenly places is not the kingdom of heaven come to earth (Eph 2:6, Mat 6:10).
[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
---michael_e on 10/18/21


Acts 1:6-7 tell us God did not "then" restoring the Kingdom to Israel. There IS NO OTHER KINGDOM in scripture. So Michael_e has created ANOTHER KINGDOM that began and ended in Acts 1-13, but hasn't given a good explication as to WHERE THESE from Acts 1-13 are? He says they have to WAIT for forgivness until the Kingdom starts up again. NO OT PROPHECY remotely suggests a Kingdom will start and abruptly end because Paul came along. Where are those souls now? Because OT SAINTS before the Law or promise of another Kingdom ARE SAVED, FORGIVEN, AND IN HEAVEN RIGHT NOW. HEBREWS 11-12. So why do those from Acts 1-13 have to wait?

Michael_e makes statements NOT IN SCRIPTURE, and then when asked for BCV, he changes the subject.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/21


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Michael_e , actually you are wrong. Not only do I make a distinction between THE NATION OF ISRAEL and God's Promises to them, and the Church being a total different entity, and not only had the Lord clearly taught me THE MYSTERY, HE also taught me right from Acts 1:6-7 that was Rightly DIVIDED from Acts 13 that the promise TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL had not begun, not until Isaiah 14 is fulfilled, we see happened in 1948, not 34ad, that Zechariah 12-14 also has to come to pass before any OTHER GOSPEL of the Kingdom is preached. The Lord thoroughly establishing me in those truths have clearly debunked YOUR THEORY Bullenger never grasped. A good bible student listens to the Lord and not Billingerism, Ironside called Satan.
---kathr4453 on 10/18/21


While most Bible students make the most important division in the Bible to be between Israel and the Church or the Old and New Testaments, mid-Acts Bible study teaches the most important distinction in your Bible to be the right division between Gods Mystery purpose, kept secret since the world began, and Gods Prophecy purpose, which had been spoken since the world began (Acts 3:19-21 vs. Rom 16:25).
Understanding the mystery of Christ revealed to Paul for us clears up the theological confusion created by blending Prophecy and Mystery doctrines.

[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
---michael_e on 10/17/21


2 Timothy say nothing about the mystery or 2 Gospels. He was talking about false teachers. We who don't believe in hyper-dispensationalism also believe we too have rightly divided the work of truth, so wearing out the verse as if it proves your doctrine is not necessary or working.

Paul discussed the Covenant with Abraham and the New Covenant. Abraham was given 2 promises.... One concerning Isaac, and one concerning Jacob. IN ISAAC WILL THY SEED BE CALLED, NOT SEEDS. THE SEED IS CHRIST. Those who have a heavenly calling. Abraham looked for a city who's builder and maker is God. THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM. .It's verses like this YOU overlook or make up something to explain away. Your explaining away creates more issues you won't address.
---kathr4453 on 10/17/21


Of course 2 Tim 2:15 isn't magical, but it's as as God inspired as any verse and absolutely necessary to understand God's Word.
As for not answering questions
[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
---michael_e on 10/17/21


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2 Timothy 2:15 is not some sort of magic verse that proves whoever constantly uses it is automatically correct and no one else. As if you are the only one RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH is arrogant.

Bottom line , Hyper-dispensationalism has been debunked as a false doctrine.

We can go round and round here till the cows come home. Michael_e has avoided some very good questions and scripture.

He sees only through the eyes of Bullinger.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. As a Jew, I see and understand things differently.

To say the Church is not under the Everlasting Covenant is the final deal breaker here for me. It shows Michael_e is not grounded in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 10/16/21


Michael_e, Just because each dispensation has more knowledge then the last shows no evidence faith changed. As I read the great chapter of Faith in Hebrews 11, I find no evidence of your Doctrine.

Is your idea of rightly dividing different than others? Do you mean to divide Israel from Gentiles? If so explain Ephesians where God broke down the middle wall between us making one new man. You want to divide, causing division. You confuse Jews with the Nation. The Nation was scattered. Only since 1948 has the Nation of Israel begun to come together. So your idea of Acts 1-13 that the Nation of Israel was coming into it's promises is not true.
---Samuel on 10/17/21


Dispensationalism teaches a false division. Covenant Theolog teaches the true division. We are to understand what comes to us from the Old Covenant and that the New Covenant is the body we are to follow. So we need to use the New Testament to understand the old. The Old gives us insight on the new.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/17/21


We are living in the dispensation of Gods grace where Jesus gave instructions to the Paul that are more excellent for us than the instructions in other dispensations (Phil 1:10, Eph 3:2) .

Jesus instructions to Paul revealed a mystery not known before in other ages (Col 1:26, Eph 3:5). This dispensation of Gods instructions was the last given and must be rightly divided from the others (1 Cor 15:8).

A failure to rightly divide the mystery information given to Paul (Rom 16:25) from the prophecy (Acts 3:21) given to Gods prophets since the world began produces doctrinal confusion (2 Tim 2:7).

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
---michael_e on 10/16/21


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And right before that Paul was telling Timothy that some were preaching the resurrection had taken place. Nothing about 2 Gospels in question. Was Peter preaching the resurrection had happened....not the resurrection of Jesus, but the first resurrection , subverting the faith of many?

The 2 Gospels, reminds me of the 2 House theory going on here as well. One says only Gentiles were forgiven and saved, the othere says only the House of Judah and the house of Israel were saved. I wonder why these two don't debate each other here. Trav has popped in, but says nothing, I guess finding more humor in attacking Strongaxe than defending his position. Interesting. Or is Trav just a coward to debate Michael_e? Or just a Troll?
---kathr4453 on 10/16/21


The necessary division for proper interpretation of the Bible isn't between the OT and New, as if one was for Israel and the other for the Church. Neither testament speaks to the mystery of the Church, the BoC.
The division to make is between both testaments (subjects of prophecy to Israel) and the Church (the subject of the mystery).

Rightly dividing the NT from the Church separates mid-Acts Pauline dispensationalists from other dispensational or covenant teaching.
Instead of interpreting the OT by the New, or the New by the Old, we interpret the entire Bible by what is prophecy and what is mystery, what is earthly, and what is heavenly. These are the necessary divisions that remove the confusion of so-called Christian scholars.
---michael_e on 10/16/21


(2 Tim 2:14) there were contentions about words from God that subverted the hearers and destroyed their faith.
Consider what I say, and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel 2 Tim 2:7-8
Remember Paul was appointed the preacher, apostle, and teacher of the Gentiles, and were to continue in what they learned from him ( 2 Tim 1:11-13).
Pauls gospel gives full explanation for the purpose of Christs death and resurrection, which was hidden since the world began, but had been appointed to Paul to preach.
He tells Timothy to rightly divide apparently, as some here do, there was wrong division
---michael_e on 10/15/21


Heb 1:1"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets."
Referring to OT
James 1:1 "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting." the moderator of the Jerusalem Counsel Gal 2, Acts 15. We see who his audience is
1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia." Who were these strangers? Acts 8:1 tells you.
These Jewish epistles were written to Jewish believers.
They are not for our doctrine but for our learning Rom 15:4
---michael_e on 10/15/21


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We need The Holy Spirit, OUR TEACHER to guide us. There's an interesting verse " After you have suffered awhile , God will establish, strengthen and settle you." This is center to our growth and maturity. We are exercised to discern both good and evil, truth from lies. So there is so much more than just studying here. There is hands on, rubber meets the road trials and testings of our faith, that establishes us in TRUTH.

Our sufferings conform us to His image through having His TRUTH WROUGHT IN US. Paul experienced this...."wrought" which means to beat. It's a painful process. It separates those of head KNOWLEGDE only from the real Christian. James Epistle is important to understanding this process.
---kathr4453 on 10/15/21


This is true of all epistles from Peter, Paul, James, John etc. What I have been saying for the last 20 years here.

So cherry picking is OUT. Let's stay with that thought when cherry picking.

Read ALL OF ROMANS David.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


Rightly dividing the word of truth comes with a tremendous advantage.
The advantage of right division is knowing Gods will for His church.
Having the Bible is not profitable unless you know how to use it. The church that does not rightly divide the scriptures is at a great disadvantage.
What was once unknown may now be known (Col 1:26).
What was once the Lords instructions can cause irreparable harm to the church if not rightly divided (Luke 12:33 vs 2 Thess 3:10).
How does the Bible believing Christian believe every word of the Bible if there are apparent contradictions and confusions?
Without right division, the sincere Christian faces a dilemma.
---michael_e on 10/14/21


When reading (1 Timothy) we must remember it is a letter, a letter written to single person. In order to understand the middle portion of this letter, we must read the entire letter to understand the context.

Imagine having a 15 page letter, written to someone else. Wouldn't it be hard to understand the context of the letter if you only had one page of that letter?

If you read the entire letter you can understand what Paul was talking about. In the first chapter of the letter you can see teachers were still mixing the Law of Moses in with the Law of Christ. Just as they were in (Acts 15).
---David on 10/14/21


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Kingdom spoken about since the world began (Acts 3:21-25) in JESUS CHRIST ALL FAMILIES OF THE EARTH ARE BLESSED ITS FAITH IN JESUS , = THE LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

Dispensation of Gods grace kept secret since the world began (Rom 16:25)

SORRY AGAIN, ROMANS 16:25 Say no such thing. You have injected either mis-information, or DIS-information for the purpose of promoting a false doctrine.

This is not RIGHTLY dividing the word of truth. This is dishonestly injecting YOUR beliefs into Gods Word.

You blew it Michael_e. You lied. You've added to and taken away from the Word of God. BAD MOVE.

Colossians 1:24-27 clearly tell us THE MYSTERY. CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY.
---kathr4453 on 10/14/21


Pauls command to rightly divide the word of truth was intended to rescue men from subversion, by putting them in remembrance.
(2 Tim 2:14)
Remembrance of what? Apparently remembrance of Pauls gospel.
Consider what I say, and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel 2 Tim 2:7-8
They were to remember that Paul was appointed the preacher, apostle, and teacher of the Gentiles, and were to continue in what they learned from him ( 2 Tim 1:11-13).
---michael_e on 10/13/21


Some here believe in sinless perfection and that it can be humanly achieved through confessing sin until you've confessed all, then becoming sinless SO THAT you have a CHANCE at being chosen by God for salvation . They claim it's right in scripture, however it is not. WOF doesn't rightly divide , they use OT earthly blessings given Israel under the OT for obedience.

The differences between Law and Grace are vast. Yet Gentiles today think promises exclusively to Israel are to them. One being America is now God's NEW CHOSEN PEOPLE and new Chosen land. No such scripture has ever stated this nonsense. Or there being two gospels, again not in scripture. A dispensation is NOT a Gospel. That may be what is confusing some here.
---kathr4453 on 10/12/21


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