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Gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4

Who was first to preach the Gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4?

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 ---michael_e on 10/17/21
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Paul preached in the Jewish synagogue's and to the Jews long before going to the Gentiles. Immediately after his conversion Paul immediately went into the JEWISH synagogue and preached Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Somehow I believe Paul and the Jews KNEW that included His death and Resurrection. Why would any of them preach Jesus Christ is Lord etc if He hadn't raised from the dead?

Paul testifies he was a Jew of Jews, a Pharisee of the tribe of Benjamin, as keeping the Law BLAMELESS. Michael_e making up all that other stuff has NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING, but I guess it helps him swallow his own false teaching. But Paul himself never made such a division about himself in qualifying himself to go to the Gentiles.
---kathr4453 on 11/5/21

[The preaching of THE CROSS in this dispensation includes our dying with Christ and being raised up together with Him.]
[The Bible doesn't define the Gospel as the Gospel of Paul.]
"..according to my gospel. Rom 2:16
"..according to my gospel.." Rom 16:25
"..according to my gospel: 2 Tim 2:8
When Paul says MY I wonder who he's talking about?
Paul was the first apostle called outside of Israel. His journeys launched from the Jew-Gentile Christian church in Antioch, not from the Jerusalem church.
From the first day of Pauls conversion he is in Gentile nations. Though he was a Jew, Gentile nations were not foreign to this Roman citizen (Acts 21:39, Acts 22:25).
---michael_e on 11/4/21

Interesting catch Phil.

So so far we have:
faith in the cross
Paul outside Israel
Two different Churches
Two different dispensations crashing into one another
We don't follow Jesus we follow Paul.( Which I still can't understand how Paul could follow Jesus but we can't)
The spiritual baptism of Pentecost is a different spiritual baptism we experience today.
Jews jumping from one Church to another by simply hearing Paul's Gospel.

I wonder if any Jews jumped out of Paul's Church and landed in Peter's Church. What a mess God has on His hands explaining that one to those who now have to WAIT for their sin to be forgiven. Forgiven...woops..unforgiven.

None of this has any clear scripture to support.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/21

[And the Cross in our lives brings the same to us, as it did to Paul.]
Why did the Lord die? Many "Christians" who don't know the gospel, think it was a shame and mistake.
Peter tried to prevent it
It wasn't until the mystery of the gospel was revealed to the Paul, the preaching of the cross was heard as good news.

God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, Gal 6:14
The cross itself was no longer a burden, but the means through which all men could be saved by grace through faith (1 Cor 1:18, 1 Cor 1:21).
Why was it now good news? What had changed? It was still an innocent man dying because of sins. Only now the cross of Christ would be preached as a means of salvation.
---michael_e on 11/4/21

Another hit and run.

Michael, I can find only one verse in all of scripture that uses the words faith and cross in the same sentence.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Our faith is in Christ, who died on the cross. The cross was an emblem of suffering and shame. And the Cross in our lives brings the same to us, as it did to Paul. This is what Paul testifies to, and what James Stuart and so many christians throughout history testify to. Even Peter. Let us LOOK TO JESUS .
---Phil on 11/4/21

Michael_e, when Jesus in his flesh said PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME, there was no actual cross then either. That came the day He was Crucified correct.

The preaching of THE CROSS in this dispensation includes our dying with Christ and being raised up together with Him. This is EXACTLY what Paul followed and is exactly what he is saying in Philippians 3. Read all the way to the end , where Paul summarized Phil 3 with FOLLOW ME.

So, if you haven't actually followed him via Phil 3 all you are doing is BLUFFING YOUR WAY here and doing more harm than good.

I believe it's doctrines like yours why people hate Paul. Because Paul has been misrepresented by your bogus teachings.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/21

Michael_e, maybe you are not aware of this, but you are not preaching "THE CROSS". What you are doing is preaching Paul. Paul rebukes you in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17.

The Bible doesn't define the Gospel as the Gospel of Paul.

There are many references in scripture to: The Gospel. There is, of Christ, of God, of Grace, of Peace etc. But actually there are more scriptures that just say "The Gospel". Simply stated THE GOSPEL. But i've never seen one called, The Gospel of Paul.

You do know Idolotry is sin. It's what Paul was talking about in
1 Corinthians 1-3 Why don't you study those chapters first and then continue to study to show yourself approved after passing that test.
---Samuel on 11/4/21

Michael_e, what do you believe you are doing here differently than James Stuart or any other who testifies of Jesus Christ?

My next question. You seem to be suggesting every Jewish person "inside" Israel had to be born in Jerusalem correct? Jerusalem was under Roman authority like most of the world was at that time. So please show us scripture that Jews were divided into categories of those INSIDE ISRAEL , meaning all those who were born in Jerusalem, and those OUTSIDE ISRAEL, meaning those born outside of Jerusalem.

Were Romans who were born in Jerusalem also classified differently than other Roman citizens?

Please provide proof from studying the Bible.
---Samuel on 11/4/21

Michael_e, if we are to follow Paul THE WAY he follows Christ, is a no brainer to those who have actually EXPERIENCED this, and not some medicinal head knowledge yadda yadda yadda you keep posting here.


If you actually were following Paul THE WAY he followed Christ, you would have a similar testimony as Paul.....THAT I MAY KNOW HIM AND THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERING AND THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION, ........KEEP READING.

Bullinger knew NOTHING of our identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life. Paul ABSOLUTELY DOES.

Do you? I don't hear it. I just hear a smoke screen.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/21

Just another hit and run by Michael.

I can not find any scripture that refers to those inside Israel and outside Israel or any reference indicating a wall of separation between them that would distinguish some sort of standing with God .

Why is it necessary to create a straw man here to promote the Gospel? Paul in his devout Jewish state was probably more Jewish than many Jews, who took the law so seriously he murdered Christians. His Roman citizenship didn't diminish his attention to the Law.

God choosing Paul had nothing to do with his Roman citizenship. I believe it had to do with his knowledge of the law and scriptures.
---Phil on 11/4/21

[If Paul said " the WAY I follow Christ , then please be specific about THE WAY.]
No if's read 1 Cor 11:1
The message of Christianity isn't Mt-Jn.
Paul says this about knowing Jesus in the flesh. 2 Cor. 5:16
Christ after the flesh is learned from the stories of Mt-Jn. John 1:14.
In the flesh he was a Jew, and his ministry was toward the lost circumcision in the flesh of Israel. Rom 9:5 ,15:8
This knowledge of Christ is not after the flesh, but rather, as the risen Lord and Saviour offering grace to the ungodly and sinners worldwide through faith in the cross.
In Pauls 13 epistles we find the doctrine, walk, destiny, and purpose of the church for this dispensation.
---michael_e on 11/4/21

Paul was a Pharisee, of the tribe of Benjamin, as he testified to in keeping the LAW BLAMELESS. So where Paul was born had nothing to do with why God called Paul.

Paul, like thousands of DEVOUT JEWS came to Pentecost from EVERY NATION UNDER HEAVEN Acts 2:5-6 and could understand in their own language. If we use Michael_e's thinking, every Jew who came to Pentecost from other countries weren't real Jews either, being outside Israel themselves, and would not be added to this imaginary church that was strictly Jewish.
Paul acquired his Roman citizenship at birth having been born the son of JEWISH Roman citizenship at Tarsus Turkey. He was as much outside Israel, whatever that means as thousands that day at Pentecost.
---kathr4453 on 11/4/21

God called Paul(a roman citizen) outside Israel To go to Gentiles (Acts 9:15,16)
Acts 10 Peter went to a gentile, under protest, and returned back to Jerusalem, instead of going on to other gentiles.
Paul wasn't added to the 12, that would make 13.
1 Timothy 1:16 " me FIRST Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern.."
The OTHER APOSTLES saw him AFTER his resurrection, because they didn't know of His resurrection
Matt 19:28 SHALL sit upon twelve(not 13) thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
[One can KNOW they are following Paul the way he followed Christ, James Stuart so eloquently lays out.]
Or by studying the Bible
---michael_e on 11/3/21

Michael_e is ignorant of the Kingdom restored to Israel. There is no other Kingdom. Acts 1, Jesus would have answered YES to Acts 1:6-7. Next, Jesus would have made an immediate u turn returning in His Glorified state., CALLED THE 2ND COMMING. But before that Rome would have been overthrown, and KING Herod would have been deposed AS THE ANTI_CHRIST. Jesus would be sitting on the Throne of David. And yes at that time Gentiles will be in submission to Israel.

Michael_e insists all 12 Apostles were sitting on 12 throwns too. WHEN DID THAT happen between Acts 1-13?

It didn't folks. And it won't happen until FIRST THE GREAT TRIBULATION, and THEN the 2nd coming . Where EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM.
---kathr4453 on 11/3/21

If God wanted to choose someone outside of Israel He would have chosen a Gentile . God didn't choose Paul because he was outside of Israel. Paul was added to the Apostles God had already chosen FROM ISRAEL.

God has set in the CHURCH FIRST 1) APOSTLES as in plural. It's stated in 1st Corinthians 2:12. And Paul doesn't say God placed ME FIRST as the only Apostles to the whatever Church.

There is only ONE CHURCH FOLKS. Apostles were also those who were witnesses of Jesus resurrection. All the Apostles qualify as did Paul who was struck down on the road to Damascus where he encountered the LIVING RESURRECTED CHRIST.
The other Apostles witnessed His resurrection and spent 40 days with Him after His resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/21

The church, the boC, composed of Jew and Gentile doesn't have twelve tribes. (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4).
Those tribes came from Jacob's twelve sons (Gen 19:28).
There were twelve stones in Aarons ephod according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Ex 28:21
When Israel was to enter the promised land God sent twelve men to search out the land: one head from each tribe (Deu 1:23).
Twelve tribes refers to Israel, even in Jesus earthly ministry.
Israels Messiah chose twelve men to be minister with him: one for each tribe of the nation Israel (Mark 3:14).
He promised the twelve they would sit on twelve thrones: one throne for each tribe of Israel. Matt 19:28
Paul was chosen outside of Israel to minister to the Jew and Gentile a new creation.
---michael_e on 11/2/21

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Another interesting scripture says we are taught of Christ.
---Phil on 11/1/21

Rarely mentioned is your statement.

Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ, and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

The Apostles were opened to understand the scriptures.

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Denoms prefer mens teaching, likely why there are over 30,000 denoms.

Paul, quotes the OT over 260 times. Was able to communicate the New Covenant message to both houses of Israel. His message was authorized by Christ. Being Blinded he heard and given to see.
---Trav on 11/1/21

Not only does Peter preach the resurrection in Acts 2 and 4 he clarified the Gospel in his epistles.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:. WHICH MEANS OUR SPIRITUAL BAPTISM... THE SAME THING PAUL PREACHES IN ROMANS 6-8.

Those who don't understand the Gospel in the first place can't rightly divide what they don't understand.
---kathr4453 on 11/2/21

The more Michael_e tries to mock and discredit others the more he is actually discrediting and exposing himself as a false teacher. Seeing Jesus was already in Heaven when He rebuked Paul on the road to Damascus, Michael_e's condescending comment here is all that it is.

Michael_e seems to say a lot of nothing, seeing he's never told us exactly what Paul followed Christ to. To the bathroom? To another Gospel? To himself? If Paul said " the WAY I follow Christ , then please be specific about THE WAY.

Jesus said I AM THE WAY TRUTH AND LIFE. That has and will never change. Now Michael _e is saying Paul is now the "I AM"?

Michael_e, the more you post the more you sound like a cult.
---Samuel on 11/1/21

In Pauls writings he refers to this Gospel as the Gospel of Christ, the Gospel of God, My Gospel. But in
Acts 20:24 "But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God."
Eph 3:2"If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace..."
Paul knew only one thing, and that was "Christ crucified for our sins, and risen from the dead," and you cant find that anywhere else that you are to believe that for salvation except Pauls writings. So I dont elevate Paul above that.
---michael_e on 11/1/21

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Interesting that some don't understand we are seated with Christ in heavenly places in Christ. Also interesting some don't believe Jesus when He said He is the only mediator between God and man.

Paul was an ordinary man just as you and me. If he can follow Christ....SO CAN YOU.

JESUS CLEARLY SAID PICK UP YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW ME. Paul testifies of this in Philippians 2-3. This is what happens the moment we are saved and baptized into Jesus death. WE WALK IN THE SPIRIT NOT IN PAUL.

So , was this ANOTHER CROSS only addressed to Israel? No folks, there's only ONE CROSS TOO. One GOSPEL, ONE FAITH, ONE SPIRIT. ONE JESUS CHRIST. Keep your eyes on the Lord. He'll take you EXACTLY where He took Paul. Phil 3.
---kathr4453 on 11/1/21

Michael, your last comment is odd coming from someone who claims to be a Christian. There are other places in scripture Paul says to follow God. Paul isn't here either today. And he's not going anywhere now is he, so you suggest we follow a dead man or the Living Christ.

Another interesting scripture says we are taught of Christ.

Your comment makes me wonder if you don't have a personal relationship with the Lord? It doesn't sound like it.

Paul said " follow me THE WAY I FOLLOW CHRIST" So was Jesus here when Paul made that statement?

Scientology follow Hubbard
Mormons followed Smith
RCC the Pope

When we are surrendered to the Lord we follow Him and He leads us into all truth.
---Phil on 11/1/21

There came a time in the Lords ministry no man could follow him. John 13:36
They were following Jesus ministering to Israel only (Mat 10:5). Then, no one could follow Jesus. He was leaving, going to heaven.
Today, it's curious people think they can follow Jesus when the Bible says he is seated in heavenly places (Eph 1:20).
Seated in heavenly places, the Lord is not going anywhere at the moment, and neither are those who claim to be following him.
Paul instructs us to follow him as he is of Christ. 1 Cor 11:1
He recorded his instructions and there are faithful men following that God-given pattern (2 Tim 2:2, 2 Tim 3:16). The Bible contains Gods instructions. The Bible rightly divided contains Gods instructions for you.
---michael_e on 10/31/21

Paul meant to follow his example, not him . Jesus said FOLLOW ME. WE follow Jesus into death and resurrection life, identifying with Jesus in death and resurrection life as was Paul's testimony in Philippians 3.

Seeing Paul didn't die for my sin let's be careful we don't make Paul our god. Paul followed Christ, and so can we. We have the entire word of God now. We can follow Paul's teaching of one IN CHRIST.

There is an awesome book called A MAN IN CHRIST by James Stuart.

One can KNOW they are following Paul the way he followed Christ, James Stuart so eloquently lays out.

Seeing Bullinger believed in soul sleep, or the total annihilation of the soul and Spirit he has nothing of truth to offer me.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/21

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I Cor 10:33 "Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved." All Paul thought about was lost people.
I Cor 4:16 "Wherefore I beseech (beg) you, be ye followers of me."
Phil 3:17 "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."
Paul is of the same human make-up that we are. same failures, same weaknesses, same fears.
I Cor 11:1 "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." As I follow the resurrected, ascended Lord, you follow me."
---michael_e on 10/30/21

Michael_e no nerve hit, just frustration of you trying to make verses say what they clearly don't say. The foundation is clearly JESUS CHRIST. VERSE 11 CLARIFIES THIS.

Also if you go back to the begining of the chapter, you're doing exactly what Paul tells us not to do, which is EXALT PAUL ABOVE OTHERS. Paul says those who do are still carnal. Carnal Christians are not spiritual Christians, and don't understand spiritual things.

You only understand what you were taught by Billingerism. And that's why YOU get upset when others show scripture over your head. Those deeper scriptures are the ones YOU try to explain away. Because carnal Christians don't understand the deeper things God teaches us.
---kathr4453 on 10/30/21

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So we see the foundation has already been laid, which is Jesus Christ.

But we are told to be careful how we build upon this foundation of Jesus Christ. I see Paul building his own testimony he shares in Philippians 3. That I may know Him and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death and so on, where this is exclusively to the Body of Christ. Michael can only describe the outside of the package, anyone can do, but has never once described the content inside the package. This means what it actually is being In Christ. Seeing he explained it away shows he doesn't know the reality of being IN THE BOC.
---Phil on 10/30/21

Michael, you don't seem to be listening to others here. Paul has laid out for us the mystery of the Church. This mystery is part of the Gospel , but not the entire gospel.

The Gospel is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, the CHURCH is God's plan and purpose for those saved during this dispensation.

I believe you need to think about that and realize others just don't see it the way you do.

The Gospel of 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is not a mystery. It is the Gospel. The only Gospel.

I see you are the one arguing against sound argument here.
---Phil on 10/29/21

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That hit a nerve."Study to shew thyself approved unto God"
Jesus chose Paul to lay the foundation for the boC.
He chose the 12 to lead the 12 tribes of nation of Israel.
I Cor 3:10 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as (not from) a wise masterbuilder, I (not He)have laid the foundation" It's very simple.
Samuel If saying study upsets you. you might want to check yourself. You don't actually think I have to respond to every comment, do you?
---michael_e on 10/29/21

Michael_e, getting bored of your ignorance and swatting away everything that disagrees with your cult. No other foundation can NO MAN LAY than JESUS CHRIST. Paul did not lay the foundation of Jesus Christ. And Romans 15:20 says nothing about building upon anothers cornerstone.

OH MY GOODNESS, I guess you are going to swat away Jesus being THE ROCK....AKA FOUNDATION.

Oh, I get it, your gonna say....oh but that was said to Israel, not the church.

Nope, EPHESIANS 2:20
The verse clearly says ONLY JESUS IS THE FOUNDATION. Hebrews 4:3


The chief corner stone is another word for foundation.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/21

A cornerstone (Greek:, Latin: Primarii Lapidis) will sometimes be referred to as a "foundation-stone", and is symbolic of Christ, whom the Apostle Paul referred to as the "head of the corner" and is the "Chief Cornerstone of the Church" (Ephesians 2:20). All meaning foundation. Paul uses these terms interchangeably.

Michael_e, making condescending comments with your replies is a sign of pride where you refuse to listen to others. You have completely ignored my comments, Phil's comments and Strongaxe comments.

You have much more learning to do and I would suggest doing so before you trip. Arrogance has no place in the BOC.
---Samuel on 10/29/21

The corner stone of any building is simply what it says. It is starting point, one corner and you lay the foundation from that point.
Christ was the starting point, Paul laid the foundation (boC) from the cornerstone or starting point I believe you will masterbuilder only in 1Cor 3.
If you would seriously study instead of trying to prove someone wrong, you would see Christ chose Paul as a pattern for the boC
---michael_e on 10/29/21

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Romans 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

Paul is telling the Corinthians he laid the foundation of Christ in Corinth. If read correctly, the Apostles did not build upon ANOTHER MANS FOUNDATION. AND let's be clear, the Foundation of Christ began in Genesis 3:15. Peter preached to Cornelius the same Christ, same salvation.

1 Corinthians 3:10 GOD, not Paul is "THEE" MASTER BUILDER. Romans 15:20 there were many master builders who were already preaching CHRIST.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone, AKA FOUNDATION.
---kathr4453 on 10/29/21

I Cor 3:10,11 "According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that (foundation) that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
The foundation of everything we believe in. The finished work of the Cross.
Christ made Paul the apostle of the Gentiles Acts 9:15.
Christ made Paul and his salvation a pattern of Gods grace given to all who believe after him. 1 Tim 1:16
Christ gave Paul a dispensation of the gospel, the revelation of the mystery, from his earliest epistles. Gal 1:11-12
Paul's gospel is the saving gospel today
---michael_e on 10/28/21

A dispensation is not a gospel. In Adam all die regardless of the dispensation one lives in. In Christ will all be made alive. Hebrews 11 show OT Saints had to WAIT for us to be made PERFECT. Their faith was in the promised Redeemer but their PERFECTION came when Jesus died and rose from the dead. Now we see IN HEAVEN Heb 12, GOD, JESUS, THE ANGELS, The Spirits OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,( Those saved from Adam and Eve Abel, Noah etc AND THE CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN. We see in Luke, those in Abraham's Bosom were saved, saved EXACTLY HOW WE ARE SAVED.

But my understanding is Bullinger didn't believe absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Hummm.

He wasn't a good student with that one either.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21

The Gospel restoring the Kingdom to Israel, the last and final dispensation AFTER THE CHURCH IS COMPLETE hasn't started yet. Peter and the Apostles did not preach a restored kingdom to Israel. THERE IS NO OTHER KINGDOM. It didn't start in Acts 1 and abruptly end in Acts 13. That dispensation will be a consecutive 1000 years. And it's according to Gods plan and purpose, not depending on Israel's cooperation. And even THEN , only 1/3 of Israel will enter into that Kingdom reign, AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

You keep making up an imaginary dispensation not in scripture. Peter preached SALVATION....ACTS 2. Peter never once states THE KINGDOM IS NOW BEING RESTORED TO ISRAEL. GO SAY HI TO KING JESUS. HES SITTING RIGHT OVER THERE.
---kath4453 on 10/28/21

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Oh my goodness Samuel, I had forgotten about that scripture in Corinthians. It explains perfectly. Seeing it was there all along but spoken in the form of a mystery until Jesus rose from the dead. I can see Satan if he knew he would be defeated wouldn't have pushed this agenda in their hearts. God's will all along, and now we can clearly SEE all those scriptures about Jesus death and resurrection in the OT and Gospels.

But the MYSTERY is the Church being born out of Jesus death and resurrection ON TOP OF Salvation being complete in Him. Two entirely different issues. Do you agree?
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21

#1: The gospel Paul preached includes Christ dying for our sins, his burial, and resurrection 1 Cor 15:1-4
#2: Christ sent his disciples to preach the gospel of the kingdom. Luke 9:1-6
#3: The twelve disciples didn't understand the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ while preaching the kingdom gospel. Luke 18:31-34
Based on facts: The gospel of the kingdom and Pauls gospel are different messages.

Intelligent Bible study collects the facts first.
No intelligent student of the Scriptures believes, or teaches, that there is only one gospel(GOOD NEWS) in the Scriptures.
If anyone says otherwise, then there is good reason to doubt their ability to study
---michael_e on 10/28/21

Don't know what a Swaggart is. I know he makes up things not in scripture. Michael_e, Jesus told them about His death and resurrection before He died and rose again. He also gave many examples, re, Jonah, being in the belly if the whale for 3 days, Tear down this temple and I will raise it up in 3 days.... Mark 15:29.luke 9:22-27.

The Old and New Testament for told of Jesus death and resurrection. Read Acts 2 and see where Peter also uses OT scripture about Jesus death and resurrection. Study to show yourself approved Michael_e.
---kathr4453 on 10/28/21

Michael_e is again confusing Revelation with Salvation. A new born baby Christian doesn't exactly understand the same things a fully matured Christian does. Does this mean they are not really saved until they fully understand all God has in store for us?

What I see in 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 which says, (sic) that this hidden wisdom of God concerning Jesus death and resurrection was spoken of in mystery form, as we do see through out scripture, but had a reason for man and Satan and his cohorts to not understanding, because if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory. Satan was defeated at THE CROSS, a point Michael_e seems to overlook. God didn't fully REVEAL His plan until AFTER Jesus rose from the dead.
---Samuel on 10/28/21

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The Gospel of John is the Gospel of Grace. It is clearly different than Matthew.] So Matthew was preaching a DIFFERENT GOSPEL?
If the 12 knew He was going to resurrect, why were they not at the grave?? Could it be they didn't know? You are sounding like a Swaggart
---michael_e on 10/28/21

Well michael_e, if you have the same bible I do, Jesus did talk to every one of the Apostles after He resurrected. Mary Magdaline was the first to witness Jesus resurrection, then he was see by about 500 and Jesus spent 40 days with them before He ascended into Heaven. Thomas wanted to see the wounds on His hands and Side.

Then Peter and all the Apostles including all in the upper room waited for the Holy Spirit Jesus promised and testified to Jesus death and resurrection.

What Bible do you use? I know cults gave their own, but had no idea Hyper- DISP omitted so much scripture.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/21

[The Gospel of John is the Gospel of Grace. It is clearly different than Matthew.] So Matthew was preaching a different Gospel?
If Peter, James or John knew He would resurrect the third day, where were they when He resurrected?
John 20:9 "For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must
---michael_e on 10/27/21

There is no other reason Jesus died and rose again. There is not two Jesus who died for our sin, one for Jews and one for Gentiles.

And not all Jews rejected the Gospel of Grace. The only Jews who rejected the Gospel of Grace are Jews who SIMPLY DO /DID NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS THE CHRIST.

ISAIAS 53 clearly say our sin was laid on Him, and He gave His life unto death FOR OUR SIN.....not for some Kingdom Now that never happened.

Michael_e still can't explain this EXTRA DISPENSATION he believes started and stopped from Acts 1-13. God just doesn't work that way.
---kathr4453 on 10/27/21

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The Gospel of John is the Gospel of Grace. It is clearly different than Matthew. John 3:16 to WHOSOEVER , IS NOT to a nation exclusively but to individuals. It never uses the words "Kingdom of heaven" which is ON EARTH AS IT US IN HEAVEN. THE EARTHLY KINGDOM.

Only those lead by the Holy Spirit can see this truth.

When one studies to show themselves approved, they need the Holy Spirit. John 17 is not Kingdom Now theology.

If one doesn't understand Kingdom Now theology they would be confused by John 17. If one understands the BOC, and that only the CHURCH will share in Christ's GLORY, to be Glorified together with Him they recognize immediately this is not Kingdom Now Theology.
---kathr4453 on 10/26/21

The OT books of Matthew - John referred to as the Four Gospels. All four contain the gospel of the kingdom.
They don't contain the gospel of the cross for salvation.
Jesus in his earthly ministry confirmed the kingdom promises to the circumcision (Israel):
Rom 15:8
The four books start with the earthly ministry to the circumcision and ends with his death and resurrection.
Paul doesn't begin with Jesus ministry to the circumcision as Matthew-John. He says
though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 2 Cor 5:16
The first thing in Pauls gospel is last in the four gospels: the death and resurrection of Christ.
1 Cor 15:3
The first point of Pauls gospel is his death for our sins.
---michael_e on 10/26/21

Eph 2:12 Paul is sent to the ethnos) ye (ethnos) without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers from the covenants of promise:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST
---michael_e on 10/24/21

Nth House of Israel divorced was removed from COMMONWEALTH of a united Israel. Scattered / Far Off.
To be reunited, redeemed bought back by Christ sacrifice. Gathered out of the Goyim/heaten/gentiles/ nations/people.
Eze 11:16. Thus saith the Lord GOD, Although I have cast them far off among the heathen, and although I have scattered them among the countries,***.
Zec 6:15. And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD
---Trav on 10/25/21

1 Corinthians 5:7

7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

I guess Paul didn't get Bullenger and Michael's memo.

Or is the blood of the Cross divided too? Hebrews says the Blood of Christ speaks better things than that of Abel. Abel's blood cried out for vengeance. Jesus blood cried out for peace and forgiveness. Michael_e thinks Jesus blood cries out for vengeance too denying the Jews forgivness. Just more anti_semitic garbage not in scripture causing division among the household of God.

Don't let doctrines as this cause divisions. Billingerism is a dangerous doctrine.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21

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THE EVERLASTING COVENANT. This covenant is to all mankind beginning with GENTILE ABEL, GENTILE ENOCH, GENTILE LOT, GENTILE JOB, GENTILE NOAH. To suggest there were no covenants with man before there was an Israel is not found in scripture.

The blood of the EVERLASTING COVENANT. HEBREWS 13:20-21.

God deals with man through covenants. AKA PROMISES. If there were no covenants in place, God could have wiped out the entire population of humanity including Noah and sons. It was because of the PROMISE / Covenant of Genesis 3:15 God did not, because God cannot lie. Gentiles were alianated from promises TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL. But are brought near THROUGH THE BLOOD OF THE EVERLASTING COVENANT. Also read Pauls words, 1 Cor 11:25
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21

Paul said follow me the way I follow Christ... Which is .....being made conformable to His death, Pauls testimony in Philippians 3. The whole chapter. This is the mystery of CHRIST IN YOU, just as Colossians 1:24-27 say. Crucified with Christ, Galatians 2:20-21, CHRIST IN YOU, John 17, I IN THEM....CHRIST IN YOU.

Don't put words in Pauls mouth that were never there, and then tell us THAT IS the Mystery that was never stated as a mystery.

Paul said in Philippians 2 KEEPING THIS MIND IN YOU THAT WAS ALSO IN CHRIST, Who made Himself of no reputation, but became obedient unto death, even death of a CROSS.


The CROSS Michael_e doesn't understand, nor did Bullenger.
---kathr4453 on 10/25/21


Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God,

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
---Samuel on 10/25/21

[Romans 16:25 say nothing about being kept secret from the prophets.]
Lets write in that verse kept secret from everyone but the prophets
The mystery of Christ explains how ungodly Gentiles could be in Christ without the law and access to the covenants. This mystery was not known by any of the prophets in time past until the Lord chose to reveal it to the apostle Paul.
I think I'll follow Paul as he followed Christ , you should try it
---michael_e on 10/24/21

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[We are under the New Covenant. So the church is now the true Israel.]
Eph 2:12 That at that time (from 2000 BC until Paul is sent to the Gentiles) ye (gentiles) were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants (plural) of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are MADE NIGH BY THE BLOOD OF CHRIST ( + covenants, water baptism tithing etc) It doesn't say that, we shouldn't either.
---michael_e on 10/24/21

Romans 16:25 say nothing about being kept secret from the prophets. This is what's called embellishing. Salvation has never been a mystery. He seems to think no one but Paul knew Jesus died and rose again. That's laughable. Acts 2, Peter goes into OT Prophecy regarding Jesus death and resurrection. THAT is the BIBLICAL JESUS. Michael_e's is Bullinger's Jesus.

We need to rightly divide the word of truth and stay with the BIBLICAL JESUS. THE PROMISED REDEEMER. The one promising eternal life. John 3:16. Unless eternal life was only promised to KINGDOM COME PEOPLE. Jesus said I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE.

---kathr4453 on 10/24/21

[You say the mystery was Jesus death and resurrection.]
The mystery revealed about Christ affected the message of salvation and sanctification
The mystery regarding salvation is the gospel of Christ: how any man can be justified freely by Gods grace through faith in Christ Jesus as our propitiation (Rom 3:20-26, 15:16, Eph 6:19).

The mystery revealed to Paul regarding sanctification is the identity of a new creature called the church, the one body of Christ (Rom 12:5, Eph 4:4). The church is to practice and preach the gospel of Christ and all its blessings free in Christ to all men through faith(Rom 5-8, Eph 1:3, 3:3-9).

I don't have to prove anything to you, nobody forces you to comment
---michael_e on 10/24/21

Until you can prove this mystery Kingdom, your teaching is CONJECTURE. Paul built upon the APOSTLES AND PROPHETS. Ephesians 2:20 Something hidden didn't mean non-existent.

Peter took the Gospel to the circumcision AKA JEWS, and Paul took the same Gospel to the Gentiles.

The Mystery was first revealed in John 17 before Jesus went to the Cross. And it appears John recorded that prayer showing they did know.

Your mystery is not the mystery Paul teaches.

You say the mystery was Jesus death and resurrection. Isaiah 53 "Jesus death" ... NO MYSTERY THERE AND you need at least one or two more supporting scripture about a Gospel Of the circumcision. It's not there. One verse wonders are what cults build upon.
---kathr4453 on 10/24/21

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We are under the New Covenant. So the church is now the true Israel. Ephesians 2. All who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior are in the Kingdom of Heaven.
---Samuelbb7 on 10/24/21

[no verse says Gospel OF THE CIRCUMCISION.]
Gal 2:7 "... gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter,
The message taught by John, Jesus, and Peter was verified by historical Scriptures, Paul says his message wasn't revealed prior (Rom 16:25, Eph 3:9).
Paul distinguishes his message from previous revelation, teachers, or historical traditions. Gal 1:11-12
His teaching wasn't after traditions of man nor was he taught it by anyone. It was revealed to him by Christ from heaven.
Instead of using prophets as a source of support, Paul says his message was kept secret from prophets. Rom 16:25
Paul had no doctrinal history to appeal to, since his mystery message was hid from ages and generations.
Col 1:26
---michael_e on 10/23/21

So for the last time Michael_e, what is this KINGDOM you keep refering to, that can start and stop where it depended on man. What other Kingdom not the one restroring the Kingdom to Israel is there? You keep skating around this question. You asked once...."Do you mean Acts 1:6-7"? And why, if you say Peter , in the Power of the Holy Spirit preached it anyway, accusing the a Trinity of being divided too.

And what makes you think that Kingdom excludes the Cross? Can anyone no matter what Kingdom be redeemed without the Blood of Jesus? If you say YES, you preach a bloodless cross, which is no cross at all. Jesus made PEACE through THE BLOOD OF THE CROSS. Colossians 1:20...stated immediately before vs 24-27.
---kathr4453 on 10/23/21

No verse says Gospel OF THE CIRCUMCISION. The Gospel is the Gospel PERIOD. It's about JESUS. Peter did not preach a cross-less gospel of an imaginary Kingdom with an imaginary Jesus sitting on an imaginary throne of David during Acts 1-13.

No one has called names here except Michael_e with underhanded condescending remarks that only YOU know how to RIGHTLY divide the word of God, and it must be YOUR WAY or you can't read properly.

Bullinger was a heretic. You unfortunately got caught in his web of lies.

You have been asked by me, Samuel, and Phil and Strongaxe questions and verses that disagree with you. Either they are not HARD ENOUGH for you, or your definition of a question is different then everyone else too.
---kathr4453 on 10/23/21

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You haven't asked a tough question. I notice you resort to name calling, which is laughable.
Peter's gospel, called the gospel of the kingdom or the gospel of the circumcision, was preached to the nation of Israel under the law of Moses. Paul's gospel, called the gospel of grace or the gospel of the uncircumcision, was preached to the Gentiles under grace. Whether Jew or Gentile, Paul's gospel is the only way of salvation in this present age of grace.
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it (The Gospel, not works, denomination, water baptism not anything we can do, but simply The Gospel) is the power of God unto salvation to every one that BELIEVTH( PLUS NOTHING), to the Jew first and also to the Greek."."
---michael_e on 10/23/21

Michael_e, I see you use this approach when avoiding hard questions that refute your doctrine.

Just repeating Bullinger over and over isn't doing the trick here.

Paul said TO THE JEW FIRST....That was at Pentecost, AND THEN TO THE GENTILE. Get over it.

Of course they will ask, what must we do to be saved. They were reprimanded as a whole. No individual Jew was held responsible for Jesus crucifixion. If that were so, then THAT PERSON would ASK...what must I DO to be saved.

People aren't as stupid as you take them for. Those can read and who do rightly divide the word of truth see right through your double talk and nonsense here.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/21

Acts 2, deals with the Covenant Nation. verse 37, "What must we do?" Today each individual asks "..What must I do...?
Acts 2, "What must we do?"
Acts 2:38 "..`Repent, and be baptized EVERYONE OF YOU.."
Acts 3:26. "..Repent and be baptized.."
John's message was, "Repent and be baptized." For the Nation of Israel.
Compare with Acts 16. Paul's not talking to a Nation, he's talking to a Gentile. This Gentile asks what he must do.
Acts 16:31 "..`Believe on The Lord Jesus Christ.."
You can't twist "repent and be baptized" enough to make it sound like "Believe on the Lord"
---michael_e on 10/22/21

Acts 16:30 is no different then Peter telling JEWS to repent. Jews today need to repenting of rejecting Jesus and changing their mind. And preaching to 1 person, is different than preaching to a crowd.

Acts 16: 29 Then (he - singular) called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes, and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
---kathr4453 on 10/22/21

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I believe it's evil to teach Jews saved today are not part of the Church or Body of Christ because Isaiah 53 is not the Gospel. That is mind blowing.

You can't say on one hand Jews today after Acts 13 are part of the Church with Gentiles, who were brought to Christ through Isaiah 53 , but those brought to Christ through Isaiah 53 before Acts 13 are not.

Some here should keep silent on such nonsense, as God will harshly judge false teachers.

I've personally used Isaiah 53 in witnessing to my own people. We are in the Body of Christ, the Church of the First Born. We also understand "The Mystery" our heavenly calling, not our earthly one.
---Samuel on 10/22/21

This Jesus died for my sin, and rose again for my justification.

Isaiah 53:.10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him, he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand. 11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many, for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong, because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors, and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
---kathr4453 on 10/21/21

Michael_e, how do you explain the Bereans searching the scriptures daily to see if all Paul was saying was true. Like you said, there were no Romans 4 to draw from, or any New Testiment.

If Paul were preaching a mystery never heard before, what would be the point. So it appears he was not.

Paul preached that Jesus was the Christ, and all prophecy regarding Him. Born of a virgin, Isaiah 53. That prophecy in Isaiah 53 also proves Jesus is the Christ and the rejection of His own people, because it was fulfilled and just happened. More proof Jesus is the Christ.

I believe you are over thinking what is not there. Paul asked "IS CHRIST DIVIDED"? The answer is NO. Paul's answer is NO. So let's obey Paul, ok!
---Samuel on 10/21/21

OH my goodness, Michael_e, are all Gentiles in your denomination so unlearned in the scriptures?

Ok, The Apostles just testified of Jesus death and resurrection, saying they were EYE WITNESSES TO HIS RESURRECTION. The Eunuch starts reading Isaiah 53, ABOUT JESUS, About his sufferings, and how our sin was laid on him. THAT IS THE GOSPEL OF THE CROSS. Philip led him more fully into the preaching OF THE CROSS, and another Gentile was saved.

Why would you exclude Jews from salvation, because of some twisted idea it's another Gospel while Jews are leading Gentiles to the same salvation of what? Them being excluded too, because WHY? If they weren't responsible for Jesus crucifixion , why were they excluded from the BOC?
---kathr4453 on 10/21/21

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Acts 8:35 "..Philip ..preached unto him Jesus."
Philip couldn't read from Romans, or the 4 gospels From the OT he preached unto him Jesus. And he doesn't preach Jesus crucified and resurrected from the dead. It doesn't say that.
Acts 9:20 says Paul preached Christ in the) synagogues,..."
He preached Christ to the Jews. He didn't preach he's the Son of God, Who died for him and rose from the dead. Saul was saved under the Kingdom Gospel, believing Who Jesus was. The Son of God. The Messiah of Israel. The promised One. That's all he understood because that's what God had revealed to him at this time. Acts 9:25 Paul leaves for Arabia (where Mt Sanai is) There's a 3 yr gap between verse 25 and 26.
---michael_e on 10/20/21

There is no forgivness of sin or remission of sin without the blood of Jesus Christ. Even John the Baptist said "BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD."

The whole point of animal sacrifice pointed to Jesus Christ Hebrews 10. That was done BY FAITH.

And the Tabernacle in the wilderness was built after a pattern IN HEAVEN.

When Jesus died on the cross, the veil in the temple was rent, signifying the way into the Holy of Holies had been opened. Not just for Jews but for THE WHOLE WORLD.

Michael_e might want to put down Bullinger and actually STUDY THE OT, rightly dividing truth.
---kathr4453 on 10/20/21


More of the Cornelius story:

Acts 10:
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
---StrongAxe on 10/19/21

Not one word to Cornelius that Christ died for them, shed His Blood for them, and arose from the dead as a means of Salvation. If you can find it please show me. All Peter is rehearsing again is Who Jesus was.
At this time in Scripture He was the Messiah of Israel. The Son of God, the One Who was to be The Redeemer and The King of the chosen people in fulfillment of the Abrahamic Covenant. And Peter knew nothing more than that. That is all that has been revealed to him. Because everything concerning what we call the Gospel of Grace is still hidden at this time in the mind of God.
---michael_e on 10/19/21

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Peter preached to Cornelius a gentile. Cornelius was not put under Kingdom Law. No one from Acts 1 was. Kingdom law is to cut off your hand or poke out your eye if it offends in order to enter in. That will come AFTER Jesus builds His Church, which began in Acts 1. No supporting NT Scripture calls the earthly kingdom THE CHURCH. No one was being baptized INTO PETER, as OT us this type saying they were baptized into Moses .

Study to show yourself approved of God RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH PLEASE.

Are all Gentiles ignorant of these things. Christian Jews are not. Seeing Bullinger died before 1948, when Israel became a Nation, shows he just didn't get it. I wonder if he would have changed his position.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/21

So far we have seen Peter confirm a positional separation between Jew and Gentile, though neither should be respected in judgment of their good works.
Peter continues to explain the message Jesus ministered to Israel:
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached, Acts 10:36-37
Clearly, Peter is teaching the same kingdom gospel that was taught by John, Jesus, and at Pentecost: repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, the kingdom is at hand.

[It took Paul 14 years to understand the Mystery] BCV please
---michael_e on 10/19/21

Peter and the Apostles preached salvation to Gentiles and Jews before Paul. Whether they completely understood the mystery or not doesn't change the fact they preached the Gospel OF SALVATION. The mystery is not ANOTHER WAY to salvation. The MYSTERY is Gods plan and purpose of what those saved In THIS DISPENSATION areCALLED OUT to do. We are saved the same as Abel, Abraham, Job Lit, etc, but our position in Gods Great plan and purpose is different. We are called out to ALSO reign and rule WITH CHRIST during the 1000 year reign of Christ. So salvation is not different, but our assignment and preparation for this assignment is different. And NO ONE instantly understands this the moment they are saved.
---kathr4453 on 10/19/21

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