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Love God And Others

Many good, loving people the world over love the creator according to the instructions listed in scripture (nobody would love their children, spouse, or family members that way).

Do you think The Lord would want His commandment obeyed?

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 ---more_excellent_way on 12/3/21
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Dear David, the word of God is not a book of "Confucius says" sayings where you can just pluck out a verse whenever it is convenient for you and try to intimidate others you think must be stupid.--Kathr

Kathrine
I do not see you as stupid, but as foolish. And the reason for this is simple. Your teachings are not founded on the teachings Jesus Christ gave us to follow. But it's better if he tells you this....

Therefore, whosoever heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, who built his house upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of Mine and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, who built his house upon the sand, (Matthew 7:24,26)
---David on 1/1/22


2 Cor 13:1. Was the third time Paul , called by God went to Corinth, as we see in 1 Corinthians Paul having rebuked them for their carnal behavior, and other issues, ( some man marrying his step mother, immorality at communion etc)

also shows according to Gods ways follows this rule:

Deuteronomy 19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

Seeing David is only ONE MAN , making false accusations as well, has SINNED AGAINST THIS LAW.

To bring a charge against another for their belief is not what God had in mind here. My faith and belief IS NOT A SIN.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/22


Dear David, the word of God is not a book of "Confucius says" sayings where you can just pluck out a verse whenever it is convenient for you and try to intimidate others you think must be stupid. The way you use scripture is NOT how Christians use it.

2 Corinthians 13:1-5 clearly reveal you are a reprobate based on your own posts here, and rejection of every scripture I have posted concerning Jesus IN YOU.

It's YOU David who fits the description OF THE WORD OF GOD. If perhaps God is calling YOU a name, you may want to explore that thought.

I didn't write scripture, however verses as this EXPOSE our enemies and why they are enemies of Christainity.

I've got your number.
---kathr4453 on 12/31/21


Kathrine
Calling people names and telling lies about them does not make it true, nor does it bode well as to your level of maturity. So take the high road this time and tell us how you translate (2 Corinthians 13:1), instead of spewing insults and lies as a defense.
---David on 12/31/21


Yes we have a reprobate here who hates the truth of CHRIST JESUS IN THEM. He hates Galatians 2:20-21, Romans 8:11-13, Colossians 1:24-27, Colossians 3:1-4, Romans 6-8, Hebrews 13:20-21 and so much more. He hates Christians. He Hates GOD'S WAY, and thinks his way is much better.

He exalts his own strength and efforts. He hates 2 Corinthians 13:4-5. He hates 1 Corinthians 13.

He is his own god and own guide. Paul calls him a reprobate. That's why he hates Paul's teaching. But he's not alone. Many will say HAVEN'T "I"DONE THIS AND THAT, AND GOD WILL DAY .. I NEVER KNEW YOU.
---kathr4453 on 12/30/21




David, I totally reject your doctrine and find you going in circles trying to explain your beliefs. To DESIRE someone is not LOVE, it's LUST. It's love in the lowest form of love. Just read about Tamar and her half brother.. saying he loved her, actually desired her and raped her and then threw her out.

You never answered re your children. I actually love my children more than a strangers child. If my child needed me to give a kidney to them to live I would. Love isn't what brings YOU gratification, but the other gratification. Love would lay down your life for another and expect NOTHING IN RETURN.

But I see you don't understand that kind of love. GOD "IS"LOVE not will love, or maybe love, or if you do this..love.
---kathr4453 on 12/29/21


David, why do you quote scripture from Paul when you don't believe anything Paul says? TO GROW IN THE GRACE AND KNOWLEDGE OF JESUS CHRIST is not stagnant. I have no clue what you are talking about, and neither do you.

It appears you spend more time trying to figure out what others believe than working our YOUR OWN SALVATION. Why is that David? You have no clue what I believe since you CONTINUALLY misrepresent me and my beliefs.

I'm not Mormon David. I don't believe in a WORKS salvation.

I'm saved David, I have been for over 60 years. I KNOW what I have. And I'm still growing in the grace and knowledge of HIM.

YOU however are not, You cant be if you are always sitting in judgment of others, playing God.
---kathr4453 on 12/29/21


David, why do you continue to take scripture out of context? Have you failed to read what Paul was talking about? This is not a verse you can pluck out and beat someone over the head as if you were Paul. You are not. You were not called to write or interpret scripture. Forcing others to bend to your will is evil. Please continue reading 2 Corinthians 13 to get an understanding.

2 Corinthians 13: 4 For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
---Beena on 12/29/21


Kathrine
Again..I reject your doctrine because you attempt to establish the Truth, without a witness to what you believe Paul wrote.

Here is a clearly written example, from Paul no less that...You Reject.
(2 Corinthians 13:1)This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

This is why your doctrine is so incomprehensible. If what I say is not true, tell me, Why do your teachers need to teach the same people, the same things, over and over, throughout their entire lifetimes? Someone taught you how to tie your shoes when you were little, does someone still need to teach you how to tie your shoes?
---David on 12/29/21


But the love which saves you, comes from the Old Man. The Love you show to Jesus by keeping his commandments and the Love you show your neighbor, is what heals the heart, so that you can be saved.

---David on 12/22/21

This is a false gospel. This is a works false gospel. No ones heart is HEALED until AFTER you are saved by grace through faith. We cannot heal our own hearts. Jesus came to heal, cleanse, sanctify our heart.

This is David's human fleshly understanding of God. God rebukes you....1 Corinthians 2:14
---kathr4453 on 12/29/21




David, I think we are talking about two different things. I gave BIBLICAL examples you seem to reject.

I also am reminded again how you have difficulty reading and embellish beyond ones post to add your own words not there. You also do this with scripture.

You have stated for years here you have to EARN God's LOVE. That is what I was addressing.

You claim to LOVE LOVE LOVE everyone unconditionally UNTIL they offend you, and then must ask you for your forgivness before you will forgive and LOVE AGAIN and THINK this is how God relates to man.

As a SAVED CHRISTIAN GOD LOVES ME UNCONDITIONALLY even when I fail.


---kathr4453 on 12/28/21


Kathrine
And you missed my point, That being...Who does God love?

When you sin, and ask God for forgiveness, and God gives you that forgiveness, that is an act of Love. Just like it is, when we forgive those who sin against us. This is what Jesus was trying to convey in (John 14:21). God loves sinners who repent of their sins.

But if you don't feel sorry for sinning against God and confess your sins, he will not forgive you, anymore than you would forgive someone who molested your children, who doesn't feel sorry for molesting them.

The word repent seems to have gotten lost in the mainstream church. It simply means, Stop doing what Satan wants you to do, and Do What God wants you to do.
---David on 12/28/21


David, just to be clear, that was an example, and no such thing happened to me or my children. However it does happen, and has to others.

I wasn't looking for a Sunday school lesson from you when I asked you that question. And from your answer I can see your love has never been tested, just as your faith has never been tested. You would have had a different answer.

BUT If you're looking for scripture on the subject, read Hosea. That's called unconditional love. Not love based on conditions, or love based on an Academic application.

This was my whole point. Sorry you missed it.
---kathr4453 on 12/27/21


....when say your neighbor, who was your best friend molests your child...---kathr4453

Kathrine
I'm Sorry you had to endure such an event in your life. And I don't believe I would have felt differently than you, at the time. But I also know, it was the sin in your neighbors heart that caused them to do such a despicable act. And after that knowledge had sunk in, if they had asked, I would then be able to forgive them.

Forgiveness is an act of love, wether it be from God or from us. And your neighbor, if they asked for forgiveness, needs your forgiveness. And if you gave it, that was an act of Love. When Christians don't obey this commandment of Love, they will hate their neighbor.
(Matthew 6:14 & 15)
---David on 12/27/21


So David, Jesus was betrayed by His own and they yelled CRUCIFY HIM. They betrayed HIS LOVE , yet on the Cross Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do.".

So until love is TESTED AND TRIED, when say your neighbor, who was your best friend molests your child, THEN WHAT, ...can you still love that person with the same love you always had?

Don't answer that David, because unless or until you experience that kind of betrayal from someone so close, you have no idea how you will feel until it happens.

So until LOVE IS TRIED AND TESTED , that's what really counts.

AND God will take you through that and beyond to understand what REAL UNCONDITIONAL LOVE is. Then you'll understand GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 12/26/21


So let me ask you this , do you love your neighbor's wife the exact way you love your own wife? Do you love the neighbor kids exactly as you love your own?---kathr4453

Kathrine
That's a tough one to answer, but I will try.

Many compare Love to a fire of varying degrees. It can be a mere ember or it can be a flame. My love for a stranger is like an ember, but when they need me, that ember ignites into a flame. It's not much different with my wife and children, except with my wife, she is the only woman I desire.
---David on 12/26/21


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Merry Christmas David.

Scripture is steeped with verses of Gods Love for all. John 3:16 for example. So the invitation is to all David, not just a select group.

But you say you now love everyone correct. Before you didn't but now you do. So let me ask you this , do you love your neighbor's wife the exact way you love your own wife? Do you love the neighbor kids exactly as you love your own?

I don't think you do. And I wouldn't expect you too. Even though you say you love everyone.

So maybe there is a love God has for those who Love Jesus that goes beyond our understanding. The LOVE of God that is IN CHRIST JESUS is something the world can not understand or KNOW until they are IN CHRIST JESUS.
---kathr4453 on 12/25/21


Kathrine
Hmmm...interesting thought you gave me after I read (1 John 4:4)
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world."

I did not love everyone before I was born of God, but I did Love everyone after I was born of God. The reason for this, is because when we are born of God, God lives in us. So if I love everyone, he must also Love everyone too.

But Why did Jesus teach God only loves those who love Jesus?
Your thoughts....
---David on 12/24/21


2 Thess 1:4 so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5 which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

This is my testimony David. Let's be clear here, God saved me via THE CROSS. This us MY TESTIMONY. I will not deny my testimony or deny Christ who baptized me into His death and raised me up together with Him A NEW CREATURE.

MY TESTIMONY IS GODS LOVE FOR US. my testimony too is found in Phil 3 and Ephesians 3:14-21.

All your arguing can never take that away from me. It's a done deal. 1 John 4:19 is TRUTH. MY TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/21


I LOVE how Paul opens his epistle in 2 Thesselonians. And when I was born of God, these words gave me great comfort in my trials and testings, as I was on my way to being an OVERCOMER.



2 Thess 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians in God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: 2 grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet, because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every one of you all toward each other aboundeth, 4 so that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
---kathr445 on 12/23/21


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Kathrine
Before I was born of God, I loved those who loved me, but everyone else, not so much. In fact, I hated some so much..I wished them dead. But after I was born of God..I find I love everyone and find it impossible to hate anyone. So Yes, that love is the fruit of the spirit.

But the love which saves you, comes from the Old Man. The Love you show to Jesus by keeping his commandments and the Love you show your neighbor, is what heals the heart, so that you can be saved.

(2 Thessalonians 3:4-5) And we have confidence in the Lord concerning you, that ye both do, and will do, the things which we command you. And may the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.
---David on 12/22/21


Romans 8:34 -39Who .. condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again,....., who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, distress, persecution, famine, nakedness, peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long, we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors(OVERCOMERS) through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
---kathr4453 on 12/22/21


David I OBEY THIS:


Ephesians 6:10-17
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.... and having done all, to stand....

,16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. DAVID DOESN'T BELIEVE IN FAITH. HUMMMMM.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
---kathr4453 on 12/21/21


David... Our human love?? Or LOVE that is one of the fruit of the Spirit? So 1 Corinthians 13 goes into more detail about this LOVE. Is it talking about human love or one of the fruit of the spirit?

But you have violated this LOVE often here haven't you. Always seeing the negative in your imaginary enemies. Slandering them and never apologizing. YOU DAVID have not proved you have overcome.

Is it because your flesh cannot overcome your emotions and anger and pride?

But ALSO revisit your verse in 1 st John. It says OUR FAITH, has overcome, nothing about our works being why we overcome.

So you actually think YOU can tangle with the Devil in your own strength and win? WOW!
---kathr4453 on 12/21/21


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(Luke 6:35) But love ye your enemies, and do good and lend, hoping for nothing in return, and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest, for He is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil...and also (Matthew 25:31-46)

(Romans 2:7)
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life
.

Kathrine
According to Jesus, What is the reward for doing good?
According to Paul, what is the reward for doing good?
Good works are important, but know..it's not the Works...It's Love, the motivation behind our good Works.
---David on 12/21/21


David, Romans and John are speaking to those BORN OF GOD. Those BORN OF GOD are not conquering anything in their own strength. Those BORN OF GOD are those who have first died with Christ and are raised up A NEW CREATURE. And like I said THE NEW CREATURE has CHRIST IN THEM WHO OVERCOMES.

And Rev 21:7, AGAIN summarized this whole Gospel . 1 John tells us WHO the OVERCOMERS are...those God has said are YOUNG MEN IN CHRIST. They have matured past the baby infant/ child state.

Jesus overcame Satan in the desert, 40 days was tested and that is our example. Rev ..the great Trib IS coming through trials and tribulations.

Now share with us all when YOU WERE TRIED AND TESTED! When YOU went through the fire like Job.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/21


Our human love in our own strength cannot overcome sin or Satan.
---kathr4453


(Romans 12:21) Be not overcome by evil(Sin), but overcome evil(Satan)with good.(Love)
(Revelation 21:7) He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
(1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God (Son) does not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
---David on 12/20/21


David AGAIN, please show the endless scriptures our flesh in our own strength can achieve sinless perfection. YOU STILL HAVE NOT DONE THAT, AND no scripture says Love overcomes Satan.

Why do you continue to make things up.

Our human love in our own strength cannot overcome sin or Satan.

If that were so, there would be no need for Jesus death and resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/21


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please show the endless scriptures our flesh in our own strength can achieve sinless perfection.---kathr4453

Kathrine
It's not a matter of our strength, it's a matter of our Love. Love towards God and Love for our neighbor. Love overcomes the Evil One.
How do we obtain this overcoming Love?
If ye love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15)

How does our obedience to Jesus Christ, create this love?
(John 16:26-27).....for the Father Himself loves you, because ye have loved Me ....
Our Love for Jesus Christ puts us under Grace. Gods Grace affords us Gods protection, his blessings and his Love. And as we continually do these things..we grow in Gods Grace.
---David on 12/20/21


Yes David, please show the endless scriptures our flesh in our own strength can achieve sinless perfection.
---kathr4453 on 12/19/21


Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ. Pauls teachings are like the first floor of a building, built upon that foundation. (Ephesians 2:20-21)
---David on 12/18/21

Good stuff.
Paul also aligns by quotes the Old Testament over 260 times. Why wouldnt he. GOD didnt change.
Some female false accusers here try to change the gospel without knowing what word encompasses.
Gospel. euaggelizo & #772,
yoo-ang-ghel-id'-zo
to announce good news (evangelize) especially the gospel: - declare, bring (declare, show) glad (good) tidings, preach (the gospel).

Of Israels Messiah.
Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
---Trav on 12/18/21


David your questions are proof you will say anything to destroy the Gospel.---kathr4453

Kathrine
Your doctrine is not the gospel. The teachings Jesus gave to his disciples, to give to us, is the gospel of salvation. (2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)

David, you are saying because you sin you are not led by the Holy Spirit , therefore you are not saved or a son. Ok I'll accept that. I agree.--Kathr4453

Good to know you accept (John 8:34 & 35)

...by your own flesh have somehow achieved sinless perfection....there are no scriptures even from Jesus mouth that says that.---kathr4453

The bible is replete with this teaching. Would you like me to show you?
---David on 12/19/21


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David your questions are proof you will say anything to destroy the Gospel.

Like saying, if Jesus got a cold, doesn't that prove he was not sinless since sickness is caused by the fallen world.... In other words there won't be colds and stuffy noses in heaven.

So David, you are saying because you sin you are not led by the Holy Spirit , therefore you are not saved or a son. Ok I'll accept that. I agree.

But you are saying if you are lead by your own flesh and by your own flesh have somehow achieved sinless perfection then you are saved.

But there are no scriptures even from Jesus mouth that says that.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/21


What David is saying is, Paul's Epistles are not God breathed.--Kathr4453

No..That's not what I'm saying. Paul built upon the foundation of Jesus, he did not create a New foundation on which to build.

..those who are led by the Spirit of God ARE THE SONS OF GOD.--Kathr4453

Is the Holy Spirit leading you when you sin? Sin is against God.

But interestingly enough Jesus didn't personally write Matt Mark Luke and John. So why is faith in those ok but not in Paul's?---kathr4453

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the foundational teachings of Jesus Christ. Pauls teachings are like the first floor of a building, built upon that foundation. (Ephesians 2:20-21)
---David on 12/18/21


I believe verse 13 is a command we are to obey.

Romans 8:11-13

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/21


Strongaxe, Romans 8 is the result of our salvation. FAITH in God's word is believing what GOD WROTE THROUGH PAUL. Paul teaches us those who walk in the Spirit don't give way to the flesh.

Paul also teaches by God's authority that those who are led by the Spirit of God ARE THE SONS OF GOD.

Now David has his own belief about sin and being a son. And none of David's verses he says trump Paul's Epistles contradict Paul's Epistles.

What David is saying is Paul's Epistles are not God breathed.

But interestingly enough Jesus didn't personally write Matt Mark Luke and John. So why is faith in those ok but not in Paul's? Paul like the others also spent time with Jesus. Paul AFTER Jesus resurrection.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/21


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kathr4453:

How can one obey, not obey, or submit to Romans 8? There is not a single command in the entire chapter - it's entirely exposition, describing how things are. There's nothing that tells us to do anything, or not do anything.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/21


David, please give your reason you do not believe and submit to Romans 8.
---kathr4453

Kathrine
Because Paul is not the Author of salvation, as you obviously believe by your statement. Try to understand..and repeat after me....Paul was the Lords disciple, Jesus was not Pauls disciple.

Some Logic I will share with you....
Many people, both Jew and Gentile, were being saved before Paul became the Lords disciple. And many more millions, were saved for many hundreds of Years, before the bible was ever published. They, followed the Holy Spirit...

Paul to you and yours...Now this I say....Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
(1 Corinthians 1:12-13)
---David on 12/17/21


David, please give your reason you do not believe and submit to Romans 8.

I have gathered this from the first time you posted.

I'm especially concerned of your rejection of verses 14-18. So you here are stating you are not a son, and joint heir with Christ.

Believing is obeying David. Obedience of FAITH. You claim you have no faith or belief in Romans 8.

Please explain why. Are you saying Paul is a false Teacher/Apostle? Prove that please.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/21


David, it's all there. If we live / walk in the spirit we won't give way to THE FLESH. ---Kathrine
When you sin, aren't you giving way to the flesh?


This is Romans 8. Have you obeyed this part yet?---Kathrine
To answer your question, No I am not obedient to Romans 8. Is obedience to Romans 8 a requirement under your doctrine?
---David on 12/16/21


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David, it's all there. If we live / walk in the spirit we won't give way to THE FLESH. We again won't have that problem once we have been changed for good. Out new man IN CHRIST after the first resurrection will be in a glorified body. We won't be at warfare with our sinful flesh nature.

But NOW, seeing we are, we see THE NEW CREATURE doesn't sin. However our old man does. Our old man as Paul testifies to DIES DAILY. And that death comes through our obedience to Romans 8:11-13.... we cannot in OUR human sinful state put our old man to death AKA TO MORTIFY THE FLESH.

ROMANS 5:6-7....WHEN WE WERE WITHOUT STRENGTH...... Christ died for us.

To GOD BE THE GLORY FOR ALL HE HAS DONE, FOR ME, IN ME AND THROUGH ME....
---kathr4453 on 12/15/21


David AFTER we're saved we're raised up with Christ and walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh. This is Romans 8. As long as we are still in this world we are not living in the New Heaven and earth where sin will not be allowed in. But seeing we are still here on earth, we, UNTIL OUR LOWLY BODIES HAVE BEEN CHANGED, the flesh will always fight against the Spirit as Paul shows in Galatians. So, if we walk in the Spirit, and manifest the fruit of the Spirit, against such there is no law. Galatians 5:22-25.

Once we are in the New Heaven and earth we won't have this continued conflict.

So we ALWAYS CARRYING ABOUT IN THE BODY THE DYING OF CHRIST DO THAT THE LIFE OF CHRIST IS MANIFEST IN US.

Have you obeyed this part yet?
---kathr4453 on 12/15/21


David, yes the blood of Jesus takes away sin, however the death of Jesus takes away our old man. The blood of Jesus washes away sin but doesn't wash away our old man. Then we are raised up together with him, a new creation---Kathr4453


Kathrine
That's what I love about you, you can put your doctrine into discernible words. Very..Very rare.
But If the Old man is a sinner, and the New man is a sinner, what's the distinction between the two of them? What's new, when the new man continues to sin, just like the old man did?
---David on 12/15/21


This means God will not manifest himself to the disobedient.---StrongAxe

You do not see only those who Love Jesus are loved by God?
That's very interesting and shows me the difficulties facing folks who still walk in the darkness. Confession... I probably wouldn't have see either 20 years ago.

You have also answered the Question Below which I have sought for many years.
(Matthew 6:23) .... If therefore, the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness?

To further my education...What do you see when you read (John 16:26-27).....for the Father Himself loves you, because ye have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.
??
---David on 12/15/21


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BTW, sometimes I have to remind myself that if it had not been for my experience in these matters,...I would probably believe exactly as you do.
---David on 12/14/21

Well it appears one can experience things God never taught. We see this all the time in the WOF group. They've experienced great wealth, airplanes, crowds of thousands flocking to their churches. I'm sure they have said as you .. but it doesn't make it TRUTH.

I have experiences you will never have. And I don't measure anyone by my experiences. Satan can immitate EVERYTHING except the CROSS.... I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST is all you need to experience David. You haven't testified to this TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 12/15/21


David, yes the blood of Jesus takes away sin, however the death of Jesus takes away our old man,( the part that sins) when we die with Christ. Then we are raised up together with Him a New Creature.

You want to claim sinless perfection by your own efforts aka works of the flesh. The Bible does not teach this. By the works OF THE FLESH NO MAN IS JUSTIFIED.

The blood of Jesus washes away sin but doesn't wash away our old man. Our Identification with Jesus in death and resurrection life does. If all that was needed for our redemption was Jesus blood, He could have just pricked His finger.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/21


(1 John 3:5) And ye know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him is no sin.
(Hebrews 10:4) for it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.


Kathrine
Those born of God, can not sin, because through the blood of Jesus, their sin has been taken away...as these verses say. Now, you obviously think I am wrong....So tell us what the above verses mean by....Take away sin, if they are not what I say?

BTW, sometimes I have to remind myself that if it had not been for my experience in these matters,...I would probably believe exactly as you do.
---David on 12/14/21


Hers the problem with Davids doctrine. NO SCRIPTURE says we overcome sin. Scripture teaches 1) children know their sin is forgiven, 2 ) young men ..aka those more mature than children, have OVERCOME THE EVIL ONE...AKA SATAN. Unless you believe THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT, overcoming Satan is not overcoming sin. Please review James 1:14-15.

And then 3) FATHERS....the most mature of Christ of all, have known the Father from the beginning.

No verse says we can overcome sin.

But isn't a way to overcome sin shown in Romans 8....walking in the Spirit? The FLESH IS SIN. So how is our FLESH dealt with? Romans 6 give the answer.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/21


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David:

You wrote: We were born into sin, a handicap of sorts which we could not overcome on our own.

Right. Yet this doesn't change the fact that we *WERE* disobedient at that point *YET* despite this, God *STILL* loved us.

if God loves everyone, How do you explain (John 14:21)?

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This means God will not manifest himself to the disobedient. This doesn't mean he won't love them - he'll just discipline them the way any loving parent disciplines a disobedient child (but still loves them).
---StrongAxe on 12/13/21


How do you explain John 3:16?
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
We were born into sin, a handicap of sorts which we could not overcome on our own. God gave us a way, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, to overcome sin.

God loves those who use his sacrifice, so they can make Jesus their Lord. God does not love those who reject his offering, as we will all witness on the Day of Judgment.
Now...if God loves everyone, How do you explain (John 14:21)?
---David on 12/13/21


No only you are wrong David. Because James is teaching the works OF FAITH. Paul calls it the Law of faith, or obedience OF FAITH, and I do believe the just shall live by faith. You fail to see our life we live BY FAITH also after we are saved by faith.

James never calls them commandments. I dont need faith to not kill someone, or not lie, etc. But I see Rahab did lie didn't she, yet James uses her as an example. And Abraham ready to kill his son..."thou shall not kill". another of Jesus commandments..right? So, interestingly your verses prove you don't understand the works of faith, or have them confused with the commandments you insist are the same thing???? Are they?
---kathr4453 on 12/13/21


Whatever David, however the LAW OR WORKS OF THE LAW or any works period IS NOT OF FAITH...Kathrine

James and I are wrong?
You may want to read all of the New Testament, before you make statements which are easily proven to be false.

(James 2:14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and hath not works? Can faith save him?
(James 2:18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works. Show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
(James 2:20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
(James 2:21-22) Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
---David on 12/12/21


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David:

You wrote: I will make this as clear as I can, with these questions and answers using the bible passages below.

That still doesn't answer my question, which I ask now for the THIRD TIME. How do you explain John 3:16?

If God only loves those who love Jesus and keep his commandments, how could he love the world FIRST, before he even sent Jesus in the first place? Which came first, the chicken, or the egg?

1 John 4:19
We love him, *because* he first loved us.
---StrongAxe on 12/12/21


Then what do you say to John 3:16? ---StrongAxe on 12/10/21

StrongAxe
I will make this as clear as I can, with these questions and answers using the bible passages below.
Who does God love, according to Jesus?
Those who love Jesus.
Does everyone love Jesus?
No!!
Who are those who love Jesus?
Those who keep his commandments.

(John 16:26-27).....for the Father Himself loves you, because ye have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.

(John 14:21) He that hath My commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me, and he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him....
---David on 12/12/21


David:

Remember, "God so loved the world that he gave his son..." (the famous John 3:16). Note that he loved us WHILE we were sinners.

So, what is the criterion for God loving people? If it's "I love you only if you obey me", then how could John 3:16 happen, since Jesus came SPECIFICALLY because the whole world was drowning in disobedience? Jesus didn't come to save the righteous, but the sinners.
---StrongAxe on 12/12/21


(Galatians 2:16) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---David on 12/11/21

Whatever David, however the LAW OR WORKS OF THE LAW or any works period IS NOT OF FAITH.

Jesus represents THE FATHER, the will of the Father. He is not testifying or starting a NEW RELIGION all his own.

You seem to be insisting Jesus is working as an independent contractor.

But you are absolutely FREE to believe anything you want. Just don't force your beliefs on others.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/21


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The Bible DOES say that God loves everyone, no matter what.--StrongAxe

(Romans 9:13) Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

(John 14:21) He that hath My commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me,
---David on 12/10/21

He that hath my commandments.

Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:10***saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their
mind, and write them in their hearts:
and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: .
---Trav on 12/12/21


(Romans 3:20) Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Deeds of the Law...Deeds!!! Or Works..which ever you prefer. Are any of the following commandments Jesus gave below, Deeds of the Law of Moses???
Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, honor thy father and thy mother.

And that would be a big..NO!!!
Again...just Simple logic.
---David on 12/11/21


David, please provide scripture stating exactly what you said, re, sins of commission and sins of omission ...or laws of commission and laws of omission. I can't find any scripture using the words commission and omission.

Is this another Gospel according to David?

You presume that's what Paul meant, but that's only your THEORY. TRUTH COMES IN TWOS AND THREES. Please provide scripture.

I believe scripture David, NOT your opinion of what you think scripture is saying. Your interpretation has no standing here.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/21


Then what do you say to John 3:16? ---StrongAxe on 12/10/21


StrongAxe
I will make this as clear as I can, with these questions and answers using the bible passages below.
Who does God love, according to Jesus?
Those who love Jesus.
Does everyone love Jesus?
No!!
Who are those who love Jesus?
Those who keep his commandments.

(John 16:26-27).....for the Father Himself loves you, because ye have loved Me and have believed that I came out from God.

(John 14:21) He that hath My commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me, and he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him....
---David on 12/12/21


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Kathrine
You can accept or reject the teachings of Jesus Christ...that's your prerogative.

But for those who want to build on this teaching, the 600 Laws of commission under the Law of Moses, are the works Paul was talking about in (Galatians 2:16), Not the Laws of omission, which were the Ten Commandments. No works are involved to keep those. But Don't believe me...Read it for yourself.

(Galatians 2:16) knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
---David on 12/11/21


According to ETERNAL God (the new dispensation), we shall comply with the law of LIBERTY (James 1:25 and 2:12,it is a MANDATE, it is NOT an OPTION).

There is no text to this law (YOU DO AS YOUR DEVOTION IS/ALLOWS).

This law supercedes all else (Godliness shall not be "DICTATED", but be from the heart and mind)....this is a new age.

Godly behavior shall now come from a persons' LIVING WATER (LIVING WATER is what flowed from Jesus's side along with His blood.

God's spirit does NOT agree with the BLOOD ONLY, but with the blood AND THE WATER.

.....THESE THREE AGREE (LOOK IT UP IN SCRIPTURE).
---more_excellent_way on 12/11/21


Ok David, so seeing I have not murdered, beared false witness ( but you have here) with all the others listed then does that mean I'm sinless? If I don't break these laws I'm sinless? And you say only a handful of folks have kept these? But I see Jesus didn't say anything about having other gods before Him. So is that one ok? I can still love my neighbor and worship Allah or Buddha or L Rom Hubbard, correct? And one doesn't need to believe in Jesus either. Correct, seeing Jesus never stipulated that in that particular verse.

Hummm... I think I'm catching on to you. So you don't keep the Sabbath, or did you break it posting during Sabbath? Jesus kept the Sabbath. Please explain.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/21


David, just to clarify here, exactly what are God's commandments we are to keep or obey or whatever.
---kathr4453


Kathrine
The exact same question was asked of and answered by Jesus Christ, in (Matthew 19:16-19).
His answer
"......But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments. He said unto Him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, honor thy father and thy mother, and, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.

Jesus did not give the 600 laws of commission under Moses, he gave 5 laws of omission and only one Law of commission.
---David on 12/11/21


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Strongaxe, although David won't admit publicly, he is a Sabbath Keeper and you won't hear from him until Sabbath is over. So it may be his hatred for protestant churches are based on that alone. So he probably went into Protestant Churches on Sunday condemning them for not keeping God's Commandments. AND was offended when never asked to come back.Oddly though he's never condemned the RCC. STRANGE.

The Bible says in that while we were yet sinners, meaning ALL HUMANITY, Christ died for us MEANING ALL HUMANITY. Romans 5:8 If that's not love unconditional nothing is. God hates sin yes and wants to save us from the penalty of sin and death. Jesus paid the penalty to all who put their FAITH IN HIM.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/21


David:

Then what do you say to John 3:16 that said "God SO loved the world, that he gave his son..."? The world was sinful and reprobate BEFORE he did that, yet he loved it anyway.

Look at any normal human parents. If their children misbehave, do they kick them out of the house, or do they still love them, despite their poor behavior? We call any parents who hate and disown their children for misbehaving horrible parents, yet you think God does that? Are we expected to be more loving than God?
---StrongAxe on 12/10/21


Let's do take Jacob and Esau David. You want to use them as an example of who God loves and hates based on????? So if God felt that way before they were even born, and it wasn't based on anything good or evil either one did.....why are you using them as an example of Gods Love and Hate?

You take a verse without researching the background, making you look like a quack teacher.

So with that, God may have hated you before you were born, and no matter what you think you have done to try to earn Gods love , He simply might hate you anyway. So prove here you were not hated before you were born. Also note with Jacob and Esau God Chose Jacob BEFORE either had done good or evil. ROMANS 9:11
---kathr4453 on 12/10/21


David, just to clarify here, exactly what are God's commandments we are to keep or obey or whatever.

You insist it's not the Law of Moses. But those who love God because He first loved us don't murder, etc. Are there other commandments then we are to obey? And do you think this is enough? Is vainglory a sin? I don't see it in the 10 commandments do you? So would this include the 600+ commandments under the law too, and how does one decide which of those don't apply to today? Are you rotating your crops as instructed? Please give list here so others will know if they love God or not.
---kathr4453 on 12/10/21


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The Bible DOES say that God loves everyone, no matter what.--StrongAxe

(Romans 9:13) Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
If what you say is true, why did God hate Esau??

(John 14:21) He that hath My commandments and keeps them, he it is that loves Me, and he that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will manifest Myself to him.
According to Jesus..Who does God love?
Those who Love Jesus.

And who loves Jesus?
Those who keep his commandments.
If Jesus is right...and he is, Gods Love is anything but...unconditional.
---David on 12/10/21


When gentiles started being converted en masse, the Apostles needed to figure out which parts of the Law they should be commanded to follow. They eventually settled on only three things: abstaining from meat sacrificed to idols, things strangled, and blood. That's it. They weren't commanded to follow the 600+ other laws. The big ones (like avoiding murder, adultery, theft, perjury, etc.) they would have already long known from their own cultures anyway.
---StrongAxe on 12/9/21


Interestingly under the New Covenant the law changed, God finding fault with it...SEE Hebrews 8. So if you got arrested because you refused to obey the NEW LAW, and insisted you only obey the outdated one, would a judge find you not guilty ? NOPE!

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience, 4 And patience, experience, and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed, because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/21


David:

You wrote: Unfortunately, the mainstream churches teach that God loves you no matter what. Keeping Gods commandments is arbitrary.

The Bible DOES say that God loves everyone, no matter what. What it doesn't say is that he approves of what everyone does no matter what - a common but incorrect conclusion.

"God SO loved the world, that he gave his son...". Note that when he did that, the world was still in disobedience, yet despite this, God loved it.

The idea that God's love is conditional is an appeal to works - that we somehow have to "earn" God's love - which is impossible, as the Bible says that all our righteousness are as filthy rags.
---StrongAxe on 12/9/21


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Do you think The Lord would want His commandment obeyed?

Fortunately this question doesn't have to be subjective, for the Bible answered this question for us. Unless of course you need a false teacher to retranslate, translated scriptures.

Know therefore that the Lord thy God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations, (Deuteronomy 7:9)

Unfortunately, the mainstream churches teach that God loves you no matter what. Keeping Gods commandments is arbitrary.
---David on 12/9/21


In Ezekiel 14, there were many Jews that claimed to love God and His ways (peace, etc.), but their deeds proved otherwise (God called them "THE FAITHLESS") and told Ezekiel not to bother correcting them. God was telling Ezekiel.....

LAY OFF THEM EZEKIEL, THEY'RE all mine..."I WILL ANSWER THEM MYSELF".

THIS is the first instance of a...
......STRONG DELUSUSION....I WILL ANSWER THEM """MYSELF""".


DO WE KNOW WHAT THE BIBLE IS?
---more_excellent_way on 12/8/21


Unfortunately, many think they love God, but prove they really don't, because they keep ignoring everything God said to do. E.g. "Didn't we prove we loved you, by murdering pagans, torching their villages, and taking their gold to give to the church?" - A common attitude during the European conquest of the Americas and most of the rest of the world. Sadly, there have always been, and still are, people who think piety is this.

Matthew 7 puts it very well:
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
---StrongAxe on 12/3/21


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