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Believe In The Gospel

What happened to us when we believed the Gospel?

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 ---michael_e on 12/3/21
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Abraham was imputed righteousness when he believed God. Now the JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH, " just " meaning the justified, and LIVE BY, is a daily walk of obedience. When Abraham offered Isaac, that was not Abrahams initial salvation, but evidence OF his salvation by a continued obedience to the Lord, just as Paul testifies concerning his own salvation in Philippians 3..I PRESS ON....

The Lord wants us to GROW UP INTO THE FULLNESS and Stature of Christ, and that happens by our obedience of walking in those WORKS GOD HAS BEFORE ORDAINED WE ARE TO WALK IN. These are works OF Faith.

Those TRULY SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH can testify to these facts by their own testimony. 2 Corinthians 13:5 Ephesians 4:13, 1 Thess 1:3
---kathr4453 on 1/7/22

Sounds like God died and left His Knowledge to just a few
---michael_e on 1/7/22

I believe Paul gave us a perfect example of his own obedience of faith and clearly defines it in Philippians 3. Doesn't sound like Paul is just leaning back doing nothing.

Salvation is just the beginning of our salvation. God has a PURPOSE in our salvation. It's not just sitting around regurgitating headknowledge and regurgitation of false teachers. If that's all someone has to testify to.... RED FLAG.
---kathr4453 on 1/7/22

According to michael_e , Jews are saved "BY FAITH" AND "THROUGH FAITH" ....and are given a double portion of FAITH. YEA!

Acts 26:18
To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 3:22
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
---kathr4453 on 1/6/22

Citing James 2:14-26, Some
try to justify a performance-based evaluation of true faith today in the dispensation of grace. Yet, they rob people of the benefits the righteousness of God which only comes freely by faith in Christ (Romans 3:22-24, 5:2).

In order for a faith to be dead in this dispensation, the substance of their faith must be inactive. That is, if our faith is in Jesus Christs work on the cross, then a dead faith would be like preaching a dead Jesus who could not perform that which he promised (Romans 4:19-21).
---michael_e on 1/6/22

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Rom 3:30
Why is it by for the circumcision and through for the uncircumcision? Some know there is a difference.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law Gal 3:23
Under the law dispensation, righteousness came through obedience to Israels covenants.

For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Rom 10:5
Yet, even Israel, who was instructed by God from the law, couldn't keep the law. Both Jew and Gentile were under sin.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one Rom 3:10
---michael_e on 1/6/22

Faith is given to all men but not all men exercise that faith. Faith also is an attitude not a power. It says, I BELIEVE THAT.

When you sit in a chair you are exercising faith in that chair that it will hold you up. You believe the manufacturer that the design is to allow you and your weight to sit and the chair and not break. Your actions of actually doing it is faith. Called faith supported by works. The works is you actually sitting in the chair. Just saying ..oh yeah, it will hold me, but not taking action is called faith without works.

Abraham demonstrated his faith by OBEYING GODS VOICE and doing what God asked. Those who claim to have faith but have never exercised obedience of faith have only head knowledge.
---kathr4453 on 1/6/22

Gods Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone.

Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ. Our best efforts can never be good enough to earn salvation, but God declares us righteous for Christs sake. We receive that grace through faith alone. God even gives us the faith that trusts him. We are not saved by obeying a list of dos and donts, but by grace through faith in Christ. Our salvation is in Gods hands. Thats Good News: the Gospel.
---michael_e on 1/5/22


I admitted nothing. All I did was call you out on your vague innuendo, and YOU just admitted who you were making veiled accusations about. Again, speak plainly, like a man.

I am a man. I have been all my life. There. I've said it. Are you satisfied now?

I have NEVER *defended* abortion. I repeatedly showed that dealing with the cause (unwanted pregnancy) is MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE at lowering abortion than masking than the symptom (abortion) - yet you never addressed this. Why? Because you'd rather blame the victims than work for a solution proven to work (e.g. Denmark has the LOWEST ABORTION RATE IN THE WORLD). Instead of cursing the darkness, turn on the light.
---StrongAxe on 1/3/22

"Both antagonists desire to be authoritative". It's pretty obvious to everyone who you were referring to.

Be a man and speak plainly, ---StrongAxe on 12/29/21

Legends in your own minds. You done exactly what I intended. Identified yourself. Much better when you admit it.
No offense but, I dont think you are a man. You've never said. Afraid to. You're careful not to mention kids, wife or husband. Scripture pertaining to women are very upsetting, and personal to you. Abortion platform heroes you defend and support. Over 60 million dead and you still promo the indefensible dems.
Pro 25:14Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.
---Trav on 1/3/22

Michael_e, just because you don't understand scripture doesn't mean everyone else does not either. When RIGHTLY DIVIDING the Word of Truth we see in James 1 if you want wisdom on anything JUST ASK GOD. Now you may not get an instant answer, but have to be taken through the fellowship of His sufferings to get to that truth, you will get your answer.

But because you have rejected so much of scripture, re the NT you claim is not to THE CHURCH, you will never understand deeper truths. That's your choice. But that was not my choice or experience in coming to the knowledge of the truth Paul so CLEARLY wanted us to know and understand as It's stated right there in Ephesians3:14-21 for starters.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/22

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen US in him BEFORE the foundation of the world, that WE should be holy and without blame before him in love:
To say I understand it, I don't, and you don't either. I leave it in the hands of God, because this is what the Word says. You exercised your free will when you responded to the Gospel. But on the other hand God could honestly say, "I chose you before anything was ever created."
---michael_e on 1/2/22

So NO michael_e, I DON'T accept your interpretation by faith and go on. I accept God's Word, Every Word, not every other word, or every third word.

The Mystery hidden until Jesus rose from the dead is THE CHURCH, those who are members of HIS BODY, those baptized into His death and raised up a New Creation IN CHRIST God Planned for from before the foundation of the world. God also planned creation before the foundation of the world, but that doesn't mean creation of earth, plants animals etc already existed. Just because God KNOWS beginning from the end as we see in Rev things to come, doesn't mean man has no free will to CHOOSE THIS DAY... TODAY IS THE DAY OF SALVATION... TO WHOSOEVER WILL COME.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/22

Yes and completing the entire sentence in Eph 1:4 is what we call " RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH" .

Chosen that we SHOULD BE holy and blameless before Him in love, having PREDESTINED US into the adoption of sons BY JESUS CHRIST verse 5 COMPLETES PAULS THOUGHT HERE.

So this is Pauls whole thought here.
1) no one was already in Christ before the foundation of the world.

2) if we were predestined TO BE sons by adoption, WHEN EXACTLY does this adoption take place?

3) WHEN did you become a son THROUGH JESUS CHRIST.

These questions are important in RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/22

michael_e, false teachers manipulate verses to say something it's not saying. Just take the WOF folks twisting the verse on faith. THEY SAY by faith God created the world. However two little words totally change its meaning.. It really says By faith WE BELIEVE God created the world. See the difference?

The same with your verse in Ephesians ....its doesn't say we were chosen before the foundation of the world ....IT SAYS , we were chosen IN HIM before the foundation of the world.

But as I tested you once before on the words IN HIM, you showed your lack of understanding. It's talking about THE CHURCH, THE BOC, THE MYSTERY.

The MYSTERY is what Ephesians is about, THE CHURCH.
---kathr4453 on 1/2/22

Ephesians 1:1-4
1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:2 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

It's important to read the whole verse to understand Pauls thoughts. Mary had a little lamb....and stopping there could mean Mary gave birth to a little lamb...
---kath4453 on 1/2/22

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Ephes.1:4 says you were chosen before the foundation of the world. You can debate as what you think it says, but that doesn't change what it actually says. Accept it by faith and go on.
---michael_e on 1/1/22

Yes the mystery of THE CHURCH was chosen before the foundation of the world. Jesus is THE CHOSEN ONE ONLY, and all those who receive Him and are baptized into His death being raised up together with Him are said to be CHOSEN IN HIM. No one was CHOSEN before they existed. And no one existed ( humans) before the foundation of the world. That is what Mormons believe.
---kathr4453 on 1/1/22

We become Born again. We are to turn from following the world to following Jesus. To walk in love and caring not hae.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/1/22

Understanding our assured salvation and position in Christ: crucified with Him, buried with Him, raised from the dead with Him, baptized into Him, seated in heaven with Him, sealed by the Holy Spirit, and chosen before the foundation of the world.
---michael_e on 12/30/21

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You mentioned michael_e's "antagonists". "Both antagonists desire to be authoritative". Who could that be, exactly? It's pretty obvious to everyone who you were referring to.

Yes, you didn't SPECIFICALLY identify them, but since kathr and I are the two people you constantly accuse of things here, it's pretty obvious to all who you meant. In just the same way, you constantly make veiled accusations against me, yet you never actually come out and say what they are about, even after being repeatedly asked to do so - because you assume others will fill in the blanks, but you can remain blameless because YOU didn't actually come out and say it.

Be a man and speak plainly, instead of in veiled innuendo.
---StrongAxe on 12/29/21

You wrote: The difference between you and your antagonists is, you search the scriptures and post them. Both antagonists desire to be authoritative but, have no scriptural witnesses in multiples beginning to end of scripture.
---StrongAxe on 12/19/21

I didnt identify the antagonists but, interestingly you both self identified yourselves.
OT NT Witnesses:
Exo 19:5
Exo 19:6 ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

1Pe 2:9But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people, that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
---Trav on 12/29/21

We have been resurrected and forgiven: "And you, being dead in your sins ... hath he quickened (made alive) together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses ..." (Colossians 2:13). God "... hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son ..." (Colossians 1:13), and "... hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ ..." (Ephesians 1:3). Therefore, we should always be so thankful for our position in Christ.
---michael_e on 12/26/21

2 Thess 2:13-14, "... give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ."
Isaiah 55:9 "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts ...." In eternity past, God knew the names of everyone who would be saved. 2 Tim 1:9 "... hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began ...."
---michael_e on 12/23/21

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Ephes 1:3-5, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will ...." Ephes 1:11, "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will ...." How could anyone hear these words and then determine that we can lose our salvation?
---michael_e on 12/21/21


Since God knows everything that happens, past, present, and future, doesn't this mean that he foreknows *everyone* (i.e. knows about them before they're born)?


Touting your own piety while putting down others is exactly like saying "I thank God I'm righteous and not like these other sinful people" - which is the prayer of the Pharisee.
---StrongAxe on 12/21/21

See how important it is to be IN CHRIST JESUS?

Perfect verses michael_e.
---kathr4453 on 12/21/21

Rom 8:33-34, "Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us." There is no one who can convict us since we have our Lord Jesus Christ as our advocate in heaven.

For these reasons, Paul could say in Rom 8:38-39, "... neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is Jesus Christ our Lord." Praise God!
---michael_e on 12/20/21

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Trav speaks with forked tongue. Matthew Mark Luke and John teach no such scriptures as michael_e just posted. So on one thread he supports Paul's verses and on another David's understanding of Jesus only verses.

Doesn't get anymore two faced than that. I believe God calls these folks hypocrites.

Interestingly none of those verses say one must achieve sinless perfection to qualify for being predestined.
---kathr4453 on 12/20/21

The fact God glorified everyone He foreknew (Rom 8:28-30) is confirmed in the next chapter. After Paul tells of the Potter who has power over the clay to make vessels as He sees fit, Rom 9:23-24, "And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called ...." We are the "vessels of mercy", and we were "afore prepared unto glory". That is, we were prepared for glory long ago, in the ancient past. Note also that we are "called", and as we saw in Rom 8:28-30 above, there is no one called that God does not also justify and glorify.
So naturally, "... If God be for us, who can be against us?" (Rom 8:31).
---michael_e on 12/20/21


You wrote: The difference between you and your antagonists is, you search the scriptures and post them. Both antagonists desire to be authoritative but, have no scriptural witnesses in multiples beginning to end of scripture.

More lies. My LAST MESSAGE specifically quoted Matthew 7:22-23.

This message of yours didn't quote scripture either. You are the pot calling the kettle black.

When will you ever be able to start having a civilized conversation, instead of making almost every single post about accusing and tearing down other people who don't agree with you? You know who the Bible called "The Accuser", right? I'm sure you can look that up without needing to be given chapter and verse.
---StrongAxe on 12/19/21

Is there anyone whom God foreknew whom He did not predestinate?
---michael_e on 12/18/21

Rom 9:4 Who are Israelites, to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises,

The difference between you and your antagonists is, you search the scriptures and post them. Both antagonists desire to be authoritative but, have no scriptural witnesses in multiples beginning to end of scripture.
The great thing about antagonists is they bless the searcher.
May the only teacher bless your searching.
When scripture makes the self proclaimed gifted furious, it is another tell.
---Trav on 12/18/21

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Is there anyone whom God foreknew whom He did not predestinate? "
Is there anyone whom God predestinated whom He did not call?
There is no one foreknown who was not also called.
Is there anyone whom God called whom He did not justify?
There is no one foreknown who was not also justified.
Is there anyone whom God justified whom He did not glorify?
There is no one foreknown whom He did not also glorify.
God proclaims our glorification with such certainty that He states it in past tense.
In contrast with God foreknowing us is God not foreknowing the lost, Matt 7:23).
---michael_e on 12/18/21

Strongaxe, yes and that's the danger of living by feelings, emotions, experiences etc. I agree. But interestingly enough God exercises those saved to be able to discern between the Holy Spirit WITHIN, and the list above that works from WITHOUT or through the flesh.

We have one such person online here insisting his experiences and flesh have achieved his qualifications for salvation. And yes, even though one points out scripture teaches no such thing, they argue and insist they are right.

The power of HIS RESURRECTION within doesn't work through our reason, flesh, emotions.
---kathr4453 on 12/18/21


Yes, people who ARE, in fact saved, shouldn't doubt their salvation. But people who THINK they are saved (but aren't), also don't doubt their salvation - and will discover this error at the final judgment (surprised goats in Matthew 25).

Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Having a warm fuzzy feeling inside that you're saved is no guarantee, because saved Christians have this feeling, but so do deluded heretics. The best we can do is trust God that we aren't among the deluded.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/21

Strongaxe, I understand. However your issue has been around since the beginning and God still tells us we can know we have eternal life in spite of all those objections.

Just because Satan can immediate and twist etc shouldn't discourage anyone who is saved to doubt their salvation.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/21

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You have to realize who "WE" is addressed to. HS tells Christians they are sons of God, but Satan says the same to apostates.

People who believe correctly CAN know they have eternal life, but people who believe incorrectly can be deluded about many things - including believing they have eternal life, when they in fact don't. Just ask any Mormon!

Believing something in your heart is no guarantee you're right, because there's no way for a person to be able to objectively determine for themselves whether they are, in fact right, or whether they're deluded. This is why there is so much delusion in the world - because when people are under strong delusion, they are unable to rationally determine this.
---StrongAxe on 12/17/21

Well Strongaxe, 1 John 5:11-13. I KNOW I HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. says we can KNOW we have eternal life NOW. so I'll have to disagree with you there. The Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit WE ARE THE SONS OF GOD.

IF A SON THEN AN HEIR. Scripture is steeped with our knowing we are saved. But I think you have to be saved TO KNOW YOU ARE.
---kathr4453 on 12/17/21

Though our salvation is sure, It doesn't give us a license to sin, "For we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ ..." (2 Cor 5:10).
Rom 8:28-30 "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Here we see that those whom God foreknew, He also glorified.
---michael_e on 12/17/21


*Bbjectively*, when one is truly saved, that is permanent. However, *subjectively* we can't know for sure whether if we are actually saved until the Final Judgment. Many are 100% convinced they are saved, yet their lives clearly demonstrate otherwise - it's possible to believe you're saved, even if you aren't really.

Most cult leaders, apostate leaders, and false prophets are in this category. (I'm talking about the sincere ones, not the cynical hucksters who know they are frauds, but know they can get rich fleeing gullible sheep. Steve Martin's character in Leap of Faith is like this - a cynical con man evangelist who runs tent revivals - until his is shaken when he sees a genuine miracle he can't explain away.)
---StrongAxe on 12/17/21

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Ok now we have established OSAS. But you don't have to be Calvinistic or Hyper_ dispensationalist to believe OSAS.

IM NEITHER Calvin or Hyper -Disp , and I absolutely believe in OSAS.

Once we die with Christ there is no turning back. Once we have been given our new birth there are no abortions in the BOC.. AMEN PRAISE GOD.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/21

"... God, who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts" (2 Cor 1:22).

God effectually put down the earnest money on us. "For we know that if our earthly house (mortal bodies) of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, not made with hands, eternal in the heavens" (2 Cor 5:1). 2 Cor 5:5-8 "Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. Therefore we are always confident knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord."
---michael_e on 12/16/21

When I think of "seal", the Lord taught me through Romans 4. Abraham received the seal of the righteousness of the faith vs 10-25. I especially am comforted by verse 24.

So to drill down even further, circumcision THE 8th day, was/is a type and shadow of THE NEW CREATURE/ New Creation and WHY SUNDAY, THE EIGHTH DAY, is so important to the BOC., ALSO res presents the cutting away of the FLESH ( our old man of sin) and Paul further explains in Colossians 2 :9-17...what the NT Circumcision means. It doesn't parallel water baptism, but spiritual baptism. The "CHURCH" is a NEW CREATURE , Gods purchased possession. And WHOSOEVER WILL can TODAY ENTER IN, through the veil, aka I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/21

We, God's purchased possession are sealed by the HS, a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance. Jere 32: is an example Jeremiah has "the right of redemption" of a piece of land in verse 7. The evidence (or deed) of the purchase is "sealed according to the law and custom" verse 11. three times it is referred to as the "evidence of the purchase" in verses 12, 14, and 16.
Ephes 1:13-14. "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, which is the earnest (deposit of guarantee) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (you), unto the praise of his glory."
---michael_e on 12/15/21

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But that still doesn't prove you were chosen michael_e. And it annuls the preaching of the cross. Because the preaching of the cross is foolishness to the STRONG WISE IN THEIR OWN EYES etc
Here Paul is not contradicting himself, but those verses are comparable.

If God chose you because you were base Michael, then no need for Jesus.

Our faith is based on our choosing Jesus Christ.

But also is Michael's verse talking about salvation OR SERVICE AFTER SALVATION?

---kathr4453 on 12/15/21

1 Cor 1:25-29,"... the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise, and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty, And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence." So God chose us, and not for our greatness, but quite the opposite.
---michael_e on 12/15/21

Michael_e has confused justification with sanctification. We are justified by faith in the finished works of Christ. OT Saints we're also Justified by faith in the promise of the Redeemer. They didn't have to see to believe. Faith is believing in the Promises of God.

Sanctification happens as a result of your justification. TODAY we are sanctified through the BODY OF CHRIST ONCE AND FOR ALL.

So the question above IS, what happens to us when we believe the Gospel.

Michael_e is changing the question to something else.

What happens is, we are forgiven our sin, buried with Him baptized into His death, raised a new Creature, become embassador's for Christ to a lost world.
---kathr4453 on 12/14/21

Those who understand scripture understand that faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence OF THINGS NOT SEEN. Hebrews 3-4 give a great example of this faith for believing THE GOSPEL. A TYPE AND SHADOW of this according to Hebrews 4 show they were already given the PROMISE. They didn't HAVE TO SEE to believe anymore than Thomas did. So we see many died in their sin in the wilderness and were not allowed to enter in because of disobedience. They simply didn't believe God's promise TO ALL ISRAEL. And God doesn't save based on ones AGE, as we see all those over 20 we're not allowed in.

Faith is also A GIFT of THE SPIRIT given to those already saved. Just review the fruit if the Spirit.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/21

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2 Thess 2:16 says God, "... hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace ...." The everlasting consolation is future, the gift was past.

Ephes 2:8-10 we are God's workmanship, and He created us in Jesus Christ. "Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ....".
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold all things become new" (2 Cor 5:17). "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration (rebirth), and renewing (receiving) of the Holy Ghost ..." (Titus 3:5).
---michael_e on 12/13/21

Contrast God's gift of faith with the times when He doesn't give it. Deut 29:2-5 "... Moses called unto all Israel, and said unto them, Ye have seen all that the LORD did before your eyes in the land of Egypt unto Pharaoh, and unto all his servants, and unto all his land, The great temptations which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great miracles: Yet the LORD hath not given you an heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day. And I have led you forty years in the wilderness ...." And this was despite being eye witnesses to the plagues, parting the Red Sea, manna from heaven, cloud by day, fire by night. Yet Israel could not perceive, nor see, nor hear, because God had not given it to them.
---michael_e on 12/13/21

Rom 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." God has distributed measures of faith as He sees fit.

I bolded where michael_e has interjected a lie. He added .." as He sees fit", but LOOK, the verse does not say that. It also shows michael_e EXALTING HIMSELF, doing the opposite of the verse.

False teachers do this...that is, ADD THEIR PERSONAL COMMENTARY.

Faith has been around since Adam and Eve, and NO SUCH SCTIPTURE teaches michael_e perverted version. Seeing God gave Cain a second chance to do right.
---kathr4453 on 12/13/21

GRACE is the Gift, as The Law was not. It's grace vs the law. Jesus IS THE GIFT...ROMANS 5. Having your name picked out of a hat IS NOT.

So we see again michael_e has not rightly divided this word of truth AGAIN. If God simply elects His chosen NO FAITH IS REQUIRED. Israel did not have to first have faith to believe they were Gods elect in order to be Gods Elect. So now micharls_e's new thoughts nunilify the preaching of the CROSS .

Michael_e has disqualified himself as a teacher of any truth.

Keep up the good work michael_e, it looks like your real false doctrine is coming to the surface.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/21

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Rom 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." God has distributed measures of faith as He sees fit.
Acts 15:7-9 "And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us, And put no difference between us and them..." God purified their hearts by faith?
---michael_e on 12/12/21

This is what happens to those who believe in the gospel. This is the EVIDENCE we have believed.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

2 Timothy 3:17
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God, but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
---kathr4453 on 12/12/21

Ephes 2:8-10 our very faith is given by God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast...". Notice it says the faith is "... not of yourselves: it is the gift of God ...." confirmed in Phil 1:29, As Acts 13:46-48 says, "... lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." So we have nothing about which to boast, but so much for which to be thankful.
---michael_e on 12/12/21

Ok Michael_e are you now saying only half of what Paul taught is not necessary.? In other words when Paul said FOLLOW ME THE WAY I FOLLOW CHRIST , is not important, except when Michael_e says it is?

However, the difference between head knowledge and actual genuine faith is evidence of that faith.

Philippians 3 is the testimony of genuine faith. With that evidence the LIFE OF CHRIST IN US is manifest, and shows this evidence in Romans 8.

People are not saved by doctrine, they are saved by the life of the risen Christ in them. Justified by His Blood AND SAVED BY HIS LIFE. This LIFE, is the POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/21

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Our salvation is by grace, through faith. Our works play no role in our salvation. In Romans 5:15-18 alone, Paul refers to our salvation as a "the gift" three times and as "the free gift" three additional times. Without this gift from God of salvation, no one could be saved. Therefore, in John 6:65 Jesus said, "... no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."
---michael_e on 12/11/21

The book of Revelation is about ONE THING (very simple).

It is all about A NEW BEGINNING and involves changes from...
1) servanthood to SONSHIP.

2) from "ONE HUSBAND" to what is referred to as 'TRINITY".

3) a PLAN to retrieve us from darkness (Ephesians 1:10).

---more_excellent_way on 12/11/21

There is DOCTRINE, and then there is daily living. Michael_e can post doctrine, but anyone can do that. In Phil 3 Paul was testifying to our daily obedience and experience of following him the way he followed Christ.

That is every bit important.
---kathr4453 on 12/11/21

"For our conversation (citizenship) is in heaven, from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself" (Philippians 3:20-21). We are not citizens of this world, but rather, ambassadors in it from our home in heaven.

Ephesians 2:5-6 tells us that God, "Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved,) and hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus ....
---michael_e on 12/11/21

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This is what should happen, what we should be testifying to....

Philippians 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death,11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. 13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
---kathr4453 on 12/10/21

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things of the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory" (Col 3:1-4). Our life is in Christ, on the right hand of God.

"Who hath(past tense) delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son ..." (Colossians 1:13). Notice how our deliverance and translation are certain
---michael_e on 12/10/21

So if you are IN CHRIST and were also water baptized, take communion, assemble together for earthly gatherings, feed and minister to the earthly poor, and feel these are things we do here on earth out of obedience, and someone tells you it's wrong, upsetting your faith, just know you are forgiven. I know it might seem like tradition as we see in Acts the Church did assemble together, some say was not the Church TODAY. So I guess Pauls instructions of assembling together also taking communion was OT and could be a sin in the BOC.

Don't worry about're forgiven, OR, JUST DON'T GO INTO A HYPER- DISPENSATIONALISTS church where only THEY believe it to be wrong.
---kathr4453 on 12/10/21

Col 1:13-14, the Father "... hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins ...."
Since we've been forgiven of all sins is confirmed several passages Col 3:13, Paul writes we should be, "Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye." He writes in Eph 4:32, "And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Being in Christ, we died with Him, were buried with Him, have risen from the dead with Him, and been forgiven of all our sins.
---michael_e on 12/9/21

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And an absolutely glaring point Michael _ e has either overlooked or simply doesn't understand. 2 Chronicles 7:14 IS NOT concerning the NEW COVENANT PROMISES of the restoration of Israel. 2 Chronicles 7:14 was promised UNDER THE LAW OF MOSES.

At Pentecost THE NEW COVENANT was instilled, rendering the OLD " If you will, then I will" obsolete ...

You see, the NC Promises concerning the restored nation can be found in Ezekiel 36 where All of it God says I WILL, I WILL I WILL, I WILL. And not one time says IF YOU WILL THEN I WILL.

Proving Acts 2 was not a call to a restored Israel. If it was, under the NC Nothing would have TWARTED Gods plan.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/21

Col 2:9-11 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him. In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ ...."The completeness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ. And we, being in Christ, are complete in Him.
"Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses ..." (Col 2:12-13). We are made alive in Christ, and have been forgiven all our sins.
---michael_e on 12/9/21

Seeing Paul taught communion , we can be sure he wasn't teaching the rudiments of the world now can we. The Covenant in Jesus blood is not Old Testament but New Testiment. Therefore if we can throw out one New Testament verse we can selectively throw out others.

Seeing Michael_e's doctrine does not believe in the New Testament in Jesus blood that did not come into affect until AFTER JESUS DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, I find odd, to begin with seeing it is as much a part of the preaching of the Cross in JESUS BLOOD as the Lambs book of Life in Jesus blood.

To say those who disagree with you micharl_e are false yourself please. Your not arguing against me but scripture PAUL TAUGHT don't understand.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/21

Rom 7:4 Paul says, "... ye are become dead to the law by the body of Christ that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God." Since we are "dead to the law", Paul teaches in Col 2:20-22 to avoid carnal ordinances and rituals. "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, after the commandments and doctrines of men?" This picks up on what Paul had written a few verses earlier in Col 2:8, "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
---michael_e on 12/9/21

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I believe communion which Paul also taught and practiced as UNDER GRACE, which doesn't save you either, is no different than water baptism , which does not save, but again we do because the Lord asked us to. And if some CHOOSE to obey this then that's between them and the Lord.

1Cor 11: 25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
---kathr4453 on 12/9/21

EPHESIAN's 1:10 is talking about the millinnial reign of Christ, the 1000 year reign where THE CHURCH will reign and rule with Chtist at that time. That TIME will end at the end of the 1000 years after the RAPRURE of the Church.

Then after that the NEW HEAVENS AND EARTH will come to be for all eternity where there will be no TIME, as we see the New Heaven will have no sun or moon counting time, days etc. Rev 21:23. So NO , that doesn't mean now, as we still have a sun and moon counting time.

Verse 10 is explained in the verses BEFORE VERSE 10, and does not say what more-excellent-way seems to be saying.

That is the next dispensation to come and the Gods plan for THE CHURCH during that time.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/21

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in the newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him ..." (Romans 6:3-8). Again, note that we are baptized not into water.
---michael_e on 12/8/21

Yet we see Paul was water baptized after his conversion.

Now Peter too testifies that it's not water that saves, but the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

So some believe water baptism is our outward profession of an inward reality. I was water baptized and IT WAS AWESOME. My pastor DIDNT SAY , I baptize you in the name of the father Son and Holy Spirit, but repeated the words in Romans 6, being baptized into His death and raised up a new Creature in Christ Jesus.

It was truly a day to remember. And a day I will never forget. Those words spoke deep into my heart and soul.
---kathr4453 on 12/8/21

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It is good to notice what gospel should be shown attention, it is also good to notice what is old and what us NEW.

Ephesians 1:10 ..the fulness of time means THE END OF TIME.thats right, Jesus ENDED the age of time and also BEGAN the age of eternity. Upon ascension He began the age if eternity (so the eternal spirit could be our spiritual teacher and cleanse our conscience so that we could be brethren of Jesus and sons of the father (Hebrews 9:14, Romans 8:29).
Heb 8:13
In the age of time, the "OLD became...

obsolete and vanished away.
---more_excellent_way on 12/8/21

We were baptized into the body of Christ. "For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body ..." (1 Cor 12:12-13). This passage doesn't speak of water, but of baptism into the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit. "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galatians 3:27).
---michael_e on 12/7/21

Yes michael_e this is so true. And after seeing the question STRONG DELUSIONS , the Lord just brought to mind that those who OBEY NOT THE GOSPEL,and believe these strong delusions are those still in this world, still worshipping our worldly ungodly politicians , delusional that a human has the power to change the direction of ungodliness when Paul clearly warns in 2 Timothy 3 that not going to happen. So if we end up worshipping a politician or president as though he were God, we are in big trouble. Not me, but those who claim to be Christians still in this world. Ambassadors for Christ are those who preach the gospel to the Lost not preach politics. There's a difference. We need to understand the difference.
---kathr4453 on 12/7/21

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