ChristiaNet MallWorld's Largest Christian MallChristian BlogsFree Bible QuizzesFree Ecards and Free Greeting CardsLoans, Debt, Business and Insurance Articles

Always Learning Scriptures

In 67 years, there is not one moment in my life where I felt completely relaxed and carefree that scripture made perfect sense and was impeccably/utterly rational. Then I began to notice that this 'lack of rationality' perception is not unusual (because of the teachers).
..... AM I THE ONLY ONE?

Join Our Free Singles and Take The Bible History Quiz
 ---more_excellent_way on 12/10/21
     Helpful Blog Vote (4)

Post a New Blog



Again Ruben, yes in John 17, we are given His Glory.

So yes, to be glorified together with Christ is a guarantee.

John 17:10
John 17:22
John 17:24
When man fell, he fell short of the Glory of God. Those IN CHRIST AND CHRIST IN THEM have that GLORY RESTORED IN THEM. Christ in you IS HIS GLORY IN YOU RIGHT NOW. THIS is why we are being changed from GLORY TO GLORY BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD ****2 Corinthians 3:18***

Those who have been JUSTIFIED HAVE BEEN GLORIFIED. ROMANS 8:30

Ruben, you picked my favorite subject to teach...more later
---kathr4453 on 4/14/22


---kathr4453 on 4/13/22* .THE HOPE OF GLORY. And interestingly enough when Psul wrote this in Colossians 1:24-27, not one word about it being the result of eating Jesus flesh literally, BUT BY THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUGGERINGS.

---kathr4453 on 4/13/22


In Col 1:15 Paul refers for HOPE ( not guarantee) that Christ laid up for us in Heaven. Col 1:23 Paul says provided YOU CONTINUE in the faith and NOT shifting from the HOPE! And again v 27 The Hope of his Glory which you brought up, thank you very much, not guarantee of his glory.
---Ruben on 4/14/22


Ruben, I'm afraid it does. Jesus prayer in John 17 prove this. All that was left to do after Jesus prayer was to die AND RISE AGAIN. It is finished Ruben, and there is nothing you can ADD to it to save yourself.

Just as Jesus WILL BE WITH ME for all eternity. Because HE LIVES IN ME, CHRIST IN YOU ..THE HOPE OF GLORY. And interestingly enough when Psul wrote this in Colossians 1:24-27, not one word about it being the result of eating Jesus flesh literally, BUT BY THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUGGERINGS.

CHRIST IS IN ME RUBEN,and I've never once literally eaten Jesus flesh. I do however take Communion of the bread and wine. You all don't do anything but the bread..WHY? WHY ARE YOU ALL EXCLUDED FROM THE BLOOD?
---kathr4453 on 4/13/22


Ruben:

You wrote: The same way he said 'He will be with us until the end of the age'

That doesn't answer the question. Do you walk up to Jesus somewhere and ask him to give you a piece of his flesh to eat? If not, how *exactly* to you eat his flesh in the 21st century? Be specific.

So you do not call your Dad Father or ur kids just call you dad?

That's not the point. Jesus said not to do it, period. Does doing it one way suddenly make doing it all right in another way?
---StrongAxe on 4/12/22


kathr4453*>>Christ did not say''My flesh profits nothing' .

kathr4453*I believe when it comes to the finished works of Christ, YOU TOO ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAF.

Jesus said " It is finish" does not say anything about the works of Christ, you are adding to it. It refers to all things that were required before his death v 24 and also giving Mary to John to take care of her, then he said it is finish!

-StrongAxe *How can we, in the 21st century, eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood, when he left the earth in the 1st century?

The same way he said 'He will be with us until the end of the age'

-StrongAxe *Anyone on earth "father"

So you do not call your Dad Father or ur kids just call you dad?
---Ruben on 4/12/22




Because Ruben, those IN CHRIST and those where Christ IS IN THEM LIVE BY CHRIST. And we live BY FAITH, not by sight. And Ruben, if you read further down in John 6 it says MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE, THE FLESH PROFITS NOTHING.


The reason they couldn't understand was they were spiritually deaf and blind. Just like many today are spiritually deaf and blind.

I believe when it comes to the finished works of Christ, YOU TOO ARE SPIRITUALLY DEAF.

Those who were waiting for the savior didn't have any trouble understanding. Those only waiting for the King DID. It's simple.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/22


Ruben:

Instead of constantly pestering kathr4453 for how she can explain it, why don't you tell us how YOU can explain it? How can we, in the 21st century, eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood, when he left the earth in the 1st century?

If you go by the standard Catholic answer that the priest transubstantiates bread and water into flesh and blood, how can that be? Jesus never mentioned that there was any magic formula to do so. Besides, he never established a special order of priests higher than laity (since ALL Christians are supposed to be kings and priests), and he specifically forbade us calling anyone on earth "father".
---StrongAxe on 4/11/22


kathr4453 on 4/10/22

, You keep avoiding the mean topic,

1. Jesus said ' whoever eats this bread will live forever, and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world"

2. The jews believe him. " How can this man give us HIS flesh to eat" v52

3. The disciples believe him This saying is hard, who can listen." And they walk with him no more". V 60-66

4. The apostles believe him " You have the words of eternal life."

Can someone please explain to me what was hard for the disciples to understand?

And if Jesus was not talking about eating his flesh, why then did he repeat himself, 8 times that you have to eat his flesh and drink to have eternal life?
---Ruben on 4/11/22


Passover ALWAYS pointed to Jesus Christ. Every type and shadow In the OT always pointed to Jesus Christ. Abel's blood sacrifice pointed to Jesus Christ. Instead of the blood of bulls and goats, ITS FOREVER NOW THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. John 6 is thoroughly explained in Hebrews 10..THE WHOLE CHAPTER. WE ENTER A NEW AND LIVING WAY THROUGH THE VEIL, THAT IS TO SAY HIS FLESH. Galatians 2:20-21. AND we are SANCTIFIED once and for all through the body of Christ. There is no more sacrifice for sin. JESUS PAID IT ALL IN FULL.

So sacrificing Jesus over and over and over at mass is not only not Biblical, but shows the Catholic Church really doesn't understand THE FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/22


Ruben:

You wrote: Juda was not a partaker of the last supper , read John 13: 21-30

The Last Supper was a passover seder meal. This is a meal that includes a symbolic re-enactment of Israel's bondage in Egypt, and liberation out of that bondage. Dipping a bitter herb in salt water is one of the parts of that - symbolizing the bitter years Israel had to endure in Egypt. We see Jesus doing this and passing the herb to Judas, so Judas definitely did participate in this meal.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/22




Ruben, answer from a Catholic Priest RE: "WAS JUDAS AT THE LAST SUPPER"?

Scripture scholars indicate Judas was present at the Last Supper after Jesus had instituted the Eucharist. Lukes account (22:17-23) would lead one to believe that Judas did share in consuming Christs body and blood.

Samuel, yes this is my understanding, just as we see Jews today reject Jesus the savior, but are waiting for the KING STILL.

I also believe John 15 is what John 6 means as well. To ABIDE IN CHRIST IS TO LIVE BY CHRIST. JUST AS GAL 2:20-21 REITERATE.

There is only one way to be IN CHRIST. Christ IN YOU is not eating something that passes through you daily. Jesus doesn't have to eat us so we can be IN HIM either.
---kathr4453 on 4/10/22


I believe it was that Judas didn't want the Savior Jesus was. He wanted a king with an army.

Agape
---Samuelbb7 on 4/10/22


-kathr4453 *

Question one: Jesus went into details of the last supper . " This is my BODY" Juda was not a partaker of the last supper , read John 13: 21-30

Question 2 : tell the multitude was of the same mindset as Judas looking for the KING and not the savior?

No, because the multitudes ask " How can this man give us his flesh to eat"v 52 And the disciples ask " This is hard who can understand?' and they no longer walk with him.v66

My question to you:

What was so hard for them to understand?

If it was a misunderstanding, why would Jesus allow them to leave?

We are just about to enter the holiest week of the year. May we mediate on Jesus as he walk to his cross! Amen
---Ruben on 4/10/22


So sorry to hear this. RIP Monk.
---kathr4453 on 4/8/22


Ruben, I asked you a question first. Please answer.

Those who walked away are compared to Judas. Judas didn't balk at the last Supper, but was a partaker with the other disciples. And Jesus asked the disciples at that time WILL YOU WALK AWAY TOO? If there wasn't an issue at the last supper, with the disciples, was it because Jesus did or didn't go into detail at the last supper?

Judas betrayed Him at the last supper. Why did Judas betray Jesus? Was it over eating His Flesh? Or over the fact Jesus didn't fit Judas idea of THE COMING KING?

Could Jesus tell the multitude was of the same mindset as Judas looking for the KING and not the savior?
---kathr4453 on 4/8/22


I know this is off topic, but just last night I was informed that Monk Brendan, who used to comment on these blogs, passed away last night at a bit after 8 PM. He will be missed. R.I.P.
---StrongAxe on 4/8/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Rehab Treatments


---kathr4453 on 4/6/

I have read John 6:15, but if you notice when they found Jesus , he said 6:29 ' You were lookin for me not because you saw signs but because you ate loaves and were filled." Jesus is setting up what he is going to tell them, " He is the bread of life whoever comes to will never hunger and whoever believes in him will never thirst."v35

Notice no one question about him being the "Bread of life" they knew it was a metaphor! Then when he change the language to 'Eat my Flesh" v 51, then came the question. My question to you is , what was so hard for the disciples to understand? This is the only time in scripture do we read that some of Jesus disciples left him.
---Ruben on 4/8/22


John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.


Please read all of John 6 to see what was going on.

Ruben, if you can't or won't at least do that, there is no reason to continue here.
---kathr4453 on 4/6/22


THEY WANTED TO MAKE HIM KING RIGHT THEN. So if that had happened there would be NO CROSS, NO DEATH, NO RESURRECTION.

Kathr

But in the chapter we are discussing, has nothing to do about making him a king. The disciples said " This is hard who can understand ?" And many of his disciples return to their former way and walk no more with him."

Jesus explain many times when the disciples did not get it, ex, Matt 13:13-19, LK 5:21-22 JHN 3:1-5 MK 4:33-34 and many more places! So what was so hard that they did not understand? And why would Jesus let them leave if it was a misunderstanding? These are questions you would need to answer in order to understand John 6 51-73!
---Ruben on 4/5/22


Ruben, also remember when Jesus was tested 40 days that too was Jesus sufferings. Being persecuted was suffering. But it seems like Mel Gibson as nany Catholics specifically focus on Jesus sufferings on the cross, even to the point of exaggerated stories I hear came from a Nun who seemed to see things God never stated in Scripture.

Also these parades of Mary in Black with a knife in her heart called our Lady of whatever is again, the Catholic Churches obsession Jesus death, failing to see God out of LOVE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, for our sin.

To continually dwell on the death, and not so much Jesus resurrection is failing to celebrate the finished works of Christ. IT IS FINISHED.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Stocks


Ruben, Paul, a Jew who believed in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ was rejected by Jews who rejected Jesus as the messiah promised to take away sin.

And that's the bottom line here , those who believed in the LAMB OF GOD WHO TAKES AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD, and those who don't, which includes today a multitude of Jews who are still waiting for THE KING, but rejected THE SAVIOR. And that's what John 6 is about. Judas betrayed Jesus because Judas was looking for THE KING....TO OVERTHROW ROMAN RULE. When he saw it wasn't happening he turned away, betraying Jesus. If it was simply eating Jesus flesh and drinking His blood, (Judas did partake of that with the rest), shows the sheer mechanics of the ritual didn't save him.
---kathr4453 on 4/5/22


Hi, Ruben . . . you say, "Here in this life we do not share so much in the glory of the resurrection as we do in the suffering of Jesus in the cross1"

Paul does say > "For as often as you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death till He comes." (1 Corinthians 11:26) So, yes the death of Jesus is emphasized in Christianity, including in communion.

But is Jesus on Calvary mainly about all that suffering? To me, Ephesians 5:2 shows that how He was sweetly pleasing our Father and loving us is what needs our attention . . . as our example of how we also are required to love. So, in our communion, then, we best show His death by loving the way Jesus was loving us while Jesus was on Calvary.
---Bill on 4/5/22


Ruben, in John chapter 6 we see two scenarios here . Look carefully at the conclusion to get your answer. Also look within the chapter to get an answer. What you see is those who walked away compared to Judas. Ok so, where did Judas literally refuse to eat Jesus flesh and drink His blood? Certainly not at the last supper. Yet those who walked away are compared to Judas. So what was Judas about, comparing him to the multitude who walked away? Ans THEY WANTED TO MAKE HIM KING RIGHT THEN. So if that had happened there would be NO CROSS, NO DEATH, NO RESURRECTION.

So we see in the 4 Gospels two different scenarios. One was the promise of THE KING, another the promise of the savior.

More later
---kathr4453 on 4/4/22


--kathr4453 on 4/2/2

Paul who would know that Jesus was raised from the dead taught "1 Cor 2:2, "For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."

After all it was Jesus who spoke to him and said " Why are you persecuting me" Acts 9. Paul went on still " .but we preach Christ crucified..." We have to go through GOOD FRIDAY in order to celebrate Easter Sunday!

Here in this life we do not share so much in the glory of the resurrection as we do in the suffering of Jesus in the cross1 Paul knew that we much, in he wrote in Romans 6:18 " we must die with Christ in order to live with Him." Amen!
---Ruben on 4/4/22


Locate Church Jobs


God's basic purpose, I now understand, is to have many children who are "conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29) So, everything fits with this overall purpose, in God's word and in things of history. This is God's priority, so it can seem like He does not care about a lot of things.

And this might help us to understand what Jesus means about eating His flesh and drinking His blood. With this, Jesus says, "He who feeds on me will live because of Me," in John 6:57. How will we become if we feed on Jesus? - - - like first gets attention in the Sermon on the Mount > poor in spirit, meek, merciful, and pure in heart.
---Bill on 4/4/22


Correction. This verse is very deep, but absolute truth. It's like some spontaneous combustion principle here. There is no life without there first being death. And to identify with Jesus BY FAITH, in His death we are also experiencing His resurrection life. THIS IS WHERE CHANGE COMES FROM. THIS IS 2 COR 3 being changed from Glory to Glory BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD.

2 Corinthians 4:10
Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
---kathr4453 on 4/4/22


Ruben:
Cannibalism would definitely have violated the Law of Moses,

1.The Jews took him literally.v52

2. The disciples took him literally. v60

3. The Apostles took him literally. v 67-
69

If they at that time took him literally, then why 2,000 yrs after the fact take him symbolic?

Now about Cannibalism, Jesus who is the author of scripture, who had responded when ask about his flesh v52 , would had said 'Have you not read the book of Leviticus 3:17 0r 7:26-27. But he didn't.

In fact if the disciples misunderstood him, why would he let them WALK AWAY, if he was speaking symbolic? They were HIS disciples and it says " walk with him no more".v66
---Ruben on 4/4/22


Ruben, the preaching of the Cross is not keeping Jesus on the cross. It's not self inflicted sufferings either.

I highly recommend reading Hebrews 13:20-21 and Roman's 8:11-13 together. Also I recommend Philippians 3...I believe the verse says THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION.

CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY IS 2 FOLD. Always bearing about in the body the dying of Jesus so that the life of Jesus is manifest. 2 Corinthians 4:20. Again stated in Phil 3.

The power Ruben is in HIS RESURRECTION. THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS INCLUDES JESUS RESURRECTION. My goodness, if Jesus hadn't been raised from the dead we would all still be in our sin....damned for eternity.
---kathr4453 on 4/3/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Diabetes


Ruben:

The difference is that Catholics constantly KEEP Jesus on the Cross, constantly reliving that horrifying experience every single day, constantly re-sacrificing him every single day.

In the Bible, Jesus spent *one* day on the Cross. After that he died, rose, and ascended into heaven. If you look at the cross, it's empty, because Jesus is no longer there. This is exactly how it was at the tomb - when people came to the tomb looking for Jesus, they were told, "He is no longer here - he is risen!"

It's similar with all the iconography celebrating Mary and the Christ Child. Jesus is no longer an infant child. He's a risen savior.
---StrongAxe on 4/2/22


-kathr4453 * Read 1st Cor v 23 ...".but we preach Christ crucified...He goes on in v 24 " Christ crucified is the "power of God".

Paul says 1 for 2:2 ""For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." He knows that Jesus on the cross has power, while a EMPTY cross has no power!

Jesus Himself tell us in LK 9:23 We must pickup our cross daily.

Galatians 3:1, "O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?"

Seems like Paul was holding a "Crucifix,
". Before you can celebrate Easter, you have to go thru GOOD FRIDAY!
---Ruben on 4/3/22


You have not enter a Catholic Church , we have Jesus on a cross when you enter and the Mass is about Jesus passion on the cross. Does your Church have Jesus on the cross?
---Ruben on 4/2/22

That's where I have s problem with the Catholic Church. I serve a risen savior. Jesus is no longer on the Cross Ruben, but is raised up from the dead, seated at the Right Hand of God , and we are seated together with Him....as we, HIS BODY have died and spiritually risen with Him.

Your mass continually shows you do not believe in The FINISHED WORKS OF CHRIST.

You live before the resurrection, we life AFTER the resurrection making it possible to be raised up together WITH HIM A NEW CREATURE.
---kathr4453 on 4/2/22


Ruben ,scripture would be steeped in example after example of this practice. Not even once is this stated in the Bible.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/22

Acts 2:46 " EVERY DAY they devoted themselves to meeting together in the temple area AND TO BREAKING BREAD ..( Take and eat this is my body).

1 Cor 12 : 23 " For I received from the Lord what I handed on to you ....took break, and , .. he had given thanks, broke it and said " THIS IS MY BODY THAT IS FOR YOU "

--kathr4453*Your doctrine is just another that avoids the Cross. Gal 2:20-2

You have not enter a Catholic Church , we have Jesus on a cross when you enter and the Mass is about Jesus passion on the cross. Does your Church have Jesus on the cross?
---Ruben on 4/2/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Depression


We also can study the Salvation of Cornelius. Peter brought the Gospel of Salvation to Cornelius home. We see the Holy Spirit fell on them , and then they were all baptized. Scripture says they were saved and had received the Holy Spirit just as they had. But absolutely no mention or instruction they must eat Jesus Flesh and Blood TOO to receive LIFE AKA SALVATION. I don't see any teaching in all of Acts when we see so many saved upon hearing the Gospel. Nor do we see James in his epistle speak of it.

So if it were as Ruben says, scripture would be steeped in example after example of this practice. Not even once is this stated in the Bible.
---kathr4453 on 3/31/22


Ruben:

You wrote: You have to belief in him in order to understand his teaching.

Yes, I know that.

v 52 I will ask again, How did Jesus answers this question?

He said: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Yes, we've been all over this. We all know what it says. That's not the issue. But what does it MEAN? Clearly it's not literal. Nobody at the Last Supper (or at any other time in history) physically ate Jesus' flesh. Cannibalism would definitely have violated the Law of Moses.
---StrongAxe on 3/29/22


Ruben, that not the first time you've twisted not only verses in scripture, but people's words. Where did the onenothing.....*** come from.

1 Cor15 :45say, THE LAST ADAM was made a quickening spirit.

It's Jesus Himself that gives life to us. His risen life, His resurrection life. We're not quickened by eating crackers and wine. We are QUICKENED when we are raised up TOGETHER WITH HIM A NEW CREATURE. 1 Corinthians 15:36***** Eph 2:1, 2:5,***** ****Colossians 2:11-13 *****say nothing about crackers and wine.

That only can happen if we first die with Him. We die with Christ when we are baptized INTO HIS DEATH.

Your doctrine is just another that avoids the Cross. Gal 2:20-21.
---kathr4453 on 3/29/22


Strongaxe

Jesus in his first section is trying to get them to belief in Jesus ! You have to belief in him in order to understand his teaching .

Jesus said " I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never hungry, and he who believes in me will never thirsty." Now up to this point it is symbolic!

Notice so far Jesus has not mention the words eat, drink, flesh, or blood.So they are not grumbling about the metaphors. In verse 51 he actually starts to speak about eating his flesh( This bread is his flesh), Then comes the question,

"How can this man gives us his flesh to eat."v 52 I will ask again, How did Jesus answers this question?
---Ruben on 3/29/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Study


Ruben:

That just says that should believe them, not what they MEAN. Since Jesus is not physically here, how, exactly, are we able to do that today?

It's not *literally* his flesh+blood, because even after the priest does his Transubstantiation, the bread+wine still look like and taste like bread+wine.

Spirit often literally means a supernatural ghost-like being, but not always.

Sometimes, it means "will":
Joshua 5:1: Canaanite's hearts melted and their spirits left them
Judges 15:18-19: Samson was thirsty. God gave him water and his spirit came back (also 1 Samuel 30:12, 1 Kings 10:5, 2 Chronicles 9:4)

Also, in many places it means "mood".
---StrongAxe on 3/28/22


Ruben, So Jesus is showing its a SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING not a literal onenothing.....***
---kathr4453 on 3/28/22

So, first of all , the obvious problem with such a claim is that v 63 is not talking about 'HIS FLESH' but about the disbelief of the disciples in v 60. Jesus has mentioned his flesh through the discourse and by the way it is by the power of the Spirit gives life.

In JHN 1:13 it speaks of the " will of the flesh" having no power in itself to become a child of God. Jesus tell us " No one can enter the Kingdom of God unless he is born of Water and Spirit"Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit And the word SPIRIT is never use symbolic in scripture!.
---Ruben on 3/29/22


Ruben, So Jesus is showing its a SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING not a literal one. If the flesh profiteth nothing, then eating His Flesh literally profits nothing. So it's THE SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE. So if I believe Hebrews 13:20-21, with Romans 8:11-23, and believe John 6 is connected here along with Philippisns 3...the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His Death, if I identify with Jesus in death and resurrection life ...being baptized into His death..Romsns 6...THAT IS SYMBOLIZING EATING HIS FLESH. AND IT HAS A FAR BETTER OUTCOME than just going to mass everyday...

Because more scripture supports this view ....as Paul said....TO REMEMBER HIS DEATH UNTIL HE COMES. Why? Galatians 2:20....***
---kathr4453 on 3/28/22


-StrongAxe *-StrongAxe * Ruben:

You wrote: v53."

Yes, but what, exactly, do these words mean?

Jesus answers the question :

John 6:61-63 "Does this offend you? What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? It is the Spirit who gives life, the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.

,Jesus is saying you would need strong faith to believe in his words, otherwise you will not believe when you see him asending and desending. You have to understand spiritually , remember the word 'SPIRIT' is never use as symbolic. So which words give Spirit and Life...V53-58
---Ruben on 3/28/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Bible Verses


kathr4453:

Yet every scientific test shows bread and wine. They call spiritual properties (body+blood) "substance", and physical properties (bread+wine) "accidents".

We think similarly. Everyone sees George Washington on a $1 bill, but nobody believes he was 2" high, flat, green, and paper. The "substance" is his face. The "accidents" are paper+ink. Similarly a Lincoln Penny, Mickey Mouse watch, Barney lunch box, Lion King t-shirt, and crucifix warn around the neck. What's important is what they *represent*, not what they're made of.

Jesus never said "I CHANGED these into my body" (magical transmutation). He said "This IS my body" (metaphorical equivalence).
---StrongAxe on 3/27/22


And that's the problem here. Scripture does NOT SAY it's left up to humans to produce Jesus flesh and blood. Or that my faith is in some human to pull this rabbit out of a hat.

My faith is in GOD ALONE, not man. And to embellish and say the Holy Spirit is the one turning bread and wine into GOD again, no scripture supports this. Just as no scripture supports many things the charismatics say the Holy Spirit is doing. I know Benny Hinn would threaten folks and say....you are blaspheming the Holy Spirit if you don't believe I'm doing this by the Holy Spirit. WRONG.

Just as the Catholic Church has embellished MARY into something scripture does not teach, I'LL PASS ON YOUR INTERPRETATION RUBEN.
---kathr4453 on 3/28/22


I believe the RCC believe the Pope or Priests have some supernatural power to LITERALLY turn bread and wine into Jesus flesh and blood.

SO, Please show scripture where Peter actually did tjus AFTER Jesus ascension.

So in reality you all are insisting I BELIEVE you all are given extraordinary powers no one else has. Seeing I can't believe that, how then can I literally be eating Jesus flesh and blood? So you insist my faith should be in YOUR POWERS, correct?

Because you dont believe when I take Communion it's the REAL THING. WHY? ANS , because you say no one but the Catholic Church can...isn't that correct?

So my issue is PROVE IT FIRST.
---kathr4453 on 3/27/22


Ruben:

You wrote: v53 Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

Yes, but what, exactly, do these words mean?

They are plainly not literal, because since Jesus ascended into heaven, his flesh and blood are not around to be eaten (end even if they were, there would certainly not be enough to go around for all the Christians in the world).

Besides it does not say 'My Flesh"

Then what other "Son of Man" could it be referring to?
---StrongAxe on 3/27/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Arthritis


--kathr4453* John 6:63

Why? Because those who believe Jesus WORDS are given life.

. And these are his words,

v53 Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."

54-" Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day."

55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink."

Kathr*Was Jesus contradicting Himself? NO.

Off course not! He would not be telling them to eat his flesh 7-8 times, then say flesh profits nothing. Besides it does not say 'My Flesh"
---Ruben on 3/26/22


Ruben:

You said: Strongaxe couldn't answer that question,

You asked: Jesus said in verse 6:51 " for the life of the world"
Is this metaphor also? Notice!, when he said about his flesh, then came the question.


I DID answer - that since the world is not a living being, "the life of the world" cannot be literal - it must be a metaphor.

Or was there some other question you wanted answered? If so, please say what it is, so I can answer it.
---StrongAxe on 3/22/22


John 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Why? Because those who believe Jesus WORDS are given life. It's called FAITH. Just as Abraham believed God, and God IMPUTED to him RIGHTEOUSNESS. It's all laid out step by step in Roman's 4-8.


Ruben, just a few verses down in John 6 Jesus clarifies That the WORDS Jesus speaks is Spirit and LIFE.

Ye must be Born Again. Born of THE SPIRIT.

Was Jesus contradicting Himself? NO.

NO RED HERRING RUBEN. A perfectly honest question seeing you literally believe you are eating Jesus flesh. You say red herring because you dont know the answer.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


-kathr4453*Ruben, So John 6 is saying what Paul testified.

Galatians says nothing about eating his flesh or drinking his blood.

-kathr4453*YOU ALSO SEE in the OT to eat blood was a sin..

Leviticus 3:17 states You must not eat any fat or any blood,

Hint: Why the Jews ask " How can this man give us his flesh to eat 6:52 Notice Jesus knowing the law, did not back down.

55 For my flesh is meat INDEED, and my blood is drink INDEED.

Jesus could had easly said 'How is it that you do not understand that I was not talking to you about my actual flesh and blood'

And why would a loving an merciful God let some of HIS disciples walk with him no more, if it was a misunderstanding?
---Ruben on 3/22/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Asthma


Ruben, Jesus gave us His Flesh when He died on the Cross for our sin. And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH..REMEMBER. WHY? Why was it important for Jesus to be made Flesh? ANS. SO HE COULD DIE. So John 6 is saying what Paul testified to in Galatians 2:20-21.I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST. AKA being made conformable to His Death, Phil 3. This is what is meant to LIVE BY HIM.

YOU ALSO SEE in the OT to eat blood was a sin. Also remember Jesus said THE LIFE IS IN THE BLOOD.

Literally drinking Jesus blood does not purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

We see Rev says " they washed their robes in the blood of the lamb " says nothing about some lake of Jesus blood cloths were washed in.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


Are you eating Jesus flesh b4 He went to the Cross, or His GLORIFIED Flesh After He rose from the dead. ?

---kathr4453 on 3/21/2

That is so Red herring, Non-Catholic Christians always go away from the real question when it comes to John 6.

When the Jews said " How can this man gives us his flesh to eat? What was Jesus response to that question?

Strongaxe couldn't answer that question, he desperately searching for metaphor words like 'World'. But the Jews never said anything about the world, But about eating his 'FLESH' Perhaps you can take a shot at it.
---Ruben on 3/22/22


Strongaxe, yes. It's my understanding that Catholics actually believe Priests or the Pope or whatever actually have supernatural powers in turning these substances into GOD HIMSELF. So it's more than them just thinking its real. I see no scripture stating God gave anyone, Peter Paul James etc any special powers to turn elementary substances into GOD.

You and I both know this, but like many Russians TODAY, they just believe what they are told and cannot use or apply critical thinking.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


kathr4453:

Bread+wine don't LITERALLY become flesh+blood. Every test shows they don't change. Catholics call spiritual reality "substance", and physical reality "accidents".

We have similar things too. Everyone recognizes Washington on the $1 bill, which has value because of that. Nobody thinks he's 2" tall and green. Paper and ink are physical reality that don't matter (the same are on $20 and worthless counterfeits).

The reality of both communion and bills are non-physical, but that doesn't make them not real.

At the Last Supper, Jesus said "this is my flesh". He didn't say "this becomes my flesh". He established a metaphoric link, not performing a magical transmutation.
---StrongAxe on 3/21/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Cholesterol


I've asked this several times here no Catholic has ever been able to answer. But if it's something they SOOOOO believe in, I think it's something they should know the answer to.

Are you eating Jesus flesh b4 He went to the Cross, or His GLORIFIED Flesh After He rose from the dead. When Jesus made that statement in John 6 was He talking about eating His flesh THEN...(which we see no proof anyone did) or was Jesus saying to eat AFTER He was Crucified and risen?

The b4 flesh had ALL THE SIN of the world placed on it..why would you want to eat that? And His GLORIFIED FLESH would shine brighter than the sun literally.....and no one has made claim to eating that.

So either case has issues.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/22


Ruben:

You wrote: Jesus said in verse 6:51 " for the life of the world"
Is this metaphor also?


Since "the world" is not actually a living organism, yes, this is a metaphor.

We use metaphors in modern English (and other languages) all the time, and that has been going on for as long as there has been language - and everybody knows what they mean. It's only when people try to interpret scripture literally that they lose this common-sense knowledge, and cease to be able to tell physical descriptions from metaphorical ones.

Since Jesus died and rose from the dead, and went to heaven, there is no longer any of his flesh and blood around for us to consume, even if we wanted to do so literally.
---StrongAxe on 3/20/22


-StrongAxe *

Jesus said in verse 6:51 " for the life of the world"

Is this metaphor also? Notice!, when he said about his flesh, then came the question.

Now Jesus could had go back and use metaphors bread and water verse 35 which were believing in him, thus calming theirs fears about eating his flesh, or ignore their objections and continue on.

He continues on and answer the question given! He tells them in verse 53 "unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood , changes the metaphors from water and bread to eat his flesh and drink his blood.

In fact , in the next 4 verses he commands them to eat his physically, even though losing his disciples and apostles, he does not soften His teaching.
---Ruben on 3/19/22


Ruben:

I didn't say *these things were not true*. I said *these things are not LITERALLY true*. They are true metaphorically.

Our dollar bill has George Washington on it. Not him literally, but his image.

An ambassador is a country's mouthpiece. Not lips and tongue, but they speak for it.

A capital city is the head of a country (from Latin "caput"=head). No eyes or ears, but it makes the decisions.

These are all metaphors. Jesus spoke in metaphor a lot. Unfortunately, many of his followers didn't understand this.

Where does your SOUL go when you die?

Regardless, you're still literally dead.
---StrongAxe on 3/18/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Lasik Surgery


Strongaxe. We can't literally eat Jesus' flesh, because it is no longer around.

when Jesus said "He will be with us to the end of the age", it's not true because he is no longer with us?

Strongaxe*Jesus is "the branch" He is "the vine"

Notice no one question him about being a door, vine But when it came about eating his flesh, then came the question " How can this man give us his flesh to eat." v 52

Tell us what was Jesus answers to that question?

Strongaxe* He said those who believed him "would never taste death", yet we have 2000 years of Christian cemeteries.

You need strong faith like Martha John 10:24, Where does your SOUL go when you die?
---Ruben on 3/18/22


First we need to understand scripture teaches scripture. So scripture teaches cannibalism is a sin. So was Jesus REALLY going against HIS OWN WORD that now it's ok? NO!

John 6, when multitudes showed up, why didn't Jesus cut off his finger and turn it into bread, and use His blood for something to drink right then? Nope, he used fish and loaves of bread.

When then EXACTLY was this cannibalism suppose to take place? Before or after Jesus death and resurrection? TODAY Jesus is GLORIFIED FLESH and......well, didn't Jesus shed his blood at the cross? If it were literal, again at the last supper, Jesus didn't cut chunks out of Himself or do any bloodletting. And no NT Apostle EVER taught that interpretation.
---kathr4453 on 3/18/22


JS1234:

There are many passages whose interpretation are crystal clear, but also many that aren't.

Note that many things Jesus said were necessarily metaphorical. We can't literally eat Jesus' flesh, because it is no longer around. Jesus is "the branch", but not literally made of wood. He is "the vine" but didn't produce grapes. He is "the Lamb of God", but never produced any wool. He said those who believed him "would never taste death", yet we have 2000 years of Christian cemeteries.

One mistake many people make frequently is to take metaphors literally. This gives us things like the Appalachian snake-handling cults who take the end of Mark literally.
---StrongAxe on 3/17/22


StrongAxe

I must disagree with you somewhat. How we interpret the following passage makes a great deal of difference. One cannot be indifferent to it:


Jesus said to them, Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever feeds upon my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day. For my flesh is real food, and my blood is real drink."
John 6:53-55

Either Jesus meant what he said, or he didn't. There can only be one correct interpretation for this. It makes a great deal of difference. You decide what the correct interpretation is.
---JS1234 on 3/17/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Bullion


Scripture is like peeling an onion. A part of what a verse means when we first became Saved grows even deeper in meaning and understanding as we mature. Our little minds cannot grasp the depth height length and width Ephesians 3:24-21 as baby's. We GROW UP INTO THE FULLNESS AND STATURE of truth Ephesians 4, through the fellowship of His sufferings Phil 3,1 Peter 3 and 4.

So the issue is many baby Christians think they know it all argue with those more mature IN CHRIST, calling them liars and false teachers because they can't see what more mature Christians see. That's why many hate Paul. Paul taught the THE MEAT that builds the GOLD SILVER AND PRECIOUS STONE. But many are content with the milk only producing the wood, hay and stubble.
---kathr4453 on 3/17/22


JS1234:

Having different interpretations isn't the problem. The problem is when someone has an interpretation *AND* insists that all other interpretations are wrong - that they alone are somehow privy to special divine knowledge that everyone else lacks. This is how cults are born.

Paul wrote that we see through a glass darkly, but later face to face. It's OK to be imperfect, as long as we acknowledge that we're imperfect, and accept our own imperfections, and also the imperfections of others.

Someone once said, "If you find a perfect church, don't join it - because it won't be perfect anymore."
---StrongAxe on 3/16/22


There are thousands of Christian denominations with thousands of interpreters of scripture, all claiming to be led by the Holy Spirit, many of whom contradict each other. What are we to make of that?
---JS1234 on 3/16/22


JS1234:

You wrote: Scripture is not the fourth member of the Trinity.

Very true! Also, something most people aren't aware of: nowhere does the Bible refer to itself as The Word of God. Only Jesus is referred to as The Word of God.
---StrongAxe on 3/12/22


Read These Insightful Articles About Menopause


Scripture is not the fourth member of the Trinity.
---JS1234 on 3/11/22


Correction, Romans 15:18.

The TRUTH IS IN JESUS. Those IN CHRIST who are members of HIS BODY, know Jesus is the head where ALL TRUTH FLOWS DOWN to the body. As we grow and mature IN CHRIST, we develope the mind of Christ, and He makes known to us THE HEIGHT, DEPTH, LENGTH, AND WIDTH and so much more. EPHESIAN's 3:14-21 is where I stand and what I testify to AS TRUTH, as this too has been wrought in me.

I have the peace of God and am at peace with God. I am AT REST IN HIM. I learned truth through lies of teachers. The Holy Spirit used lies to teach me truth. ..He worked all things together FOR GOOD. And whenever I need an answer, I ask IN FAITH...JAMES 1, and the Lord answers me. I am completely relaxed. Praise God.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/21


Is this more philosophy? Who was discussing Armageddon?

I am relaxed in my faith. And as I said, TRUTH comes through the fellowship of His sufferings. That's where TRUTH is wrought in us. You may want to look up the definition of "wrought in" .

Paul said he would never teach anything unless it had been WROUGHT IN him first. Romans 5:18. I too will make this my priority. Therefore I cannot support your teachings More-excellent-way. THE CROSS is what the Lord has WROUGHT in me and this ONLY will I testify to. I'm sorry I can't be if help to you.
---kathr4453 on 12/23/21


Jesus fulfilled ALL (ALL) righteousness...(DOES THAT HELP YOU with what you don't understand KATHRYN?). The only people who will be able to understand the Lord's truth are those who will take the time to figure out what they don't understand.

YOUR Armageddon is within your mind/conscience.
Armageddon was an actual military battle.
The name IN HEBREW Is ARMAGEDDON.
IN 2000 YEARS, NONE OF THE FAITHFUL TEACHERS, SCHOLARS or CLERGY cared to look it up, but they did manage to convince us all to ignore the usefulness of knowing its name in ENGLISH.

Many people seek to argue and discredit everything I write so they can imagine themselves as "BETTER", but will do nothing to free the brethren from mistruth and lies.
---more_excellent_way on 12/20/21


Read These Insightful Articles About Christian Penpals


There is right living, and then there is the righteousness of Christ. The righteousness of Christ only comes from Jesus Christ. We see in Romans 10, the Jews had a zeal for righteousness, but not after the righteousness of Christ. Paul again reiterates this in Philippians 3.

I'm not sure what Acts 7:16 has to do with this conversation.

So with that more_excellent_way, yours is not a more excellent way.

Must disagree with you here. As we can all see Ravi Zacharias was a great philosopher too but as we can see his philosophy paved a horrible road ahead for him. He simply did not exhibit THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/21


EXactly kathryn. GENUINE, absolute truth is inherent in a spiritual person. Our blood and bones are comfortable when presented with logic and truth (like Socrates). of course, Socrates was not a "Christian".

....(Socrates got arrested and put to death for teaching the youth of Athens about good and proper living (righteousness). Centuries later, Paul made a speech to the ATHENIAN people and saw no reason to mention Jesus to such RIGHTEOUS people.

TODAY THERE IS A COMMEMORATIVE PLAQUE on the Areopagus tourist attraction that contains ONLY Pauls' speech.

Read Pauls' speech in English in Acts 7:16.

Truth lives in spiritual people.

...and the TAOIST loves THE WAY (the English translation is THE WAY).
---more_excellent_way on 12/16/21


My experience is that the truth is WROUGHT IN US. And I believe Paul testifies to this as well.

When it comes to false teachers Jesus addressed this. He said MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE AND A STRANGERS VOICE THEY WILL NOT FOLLOW.

I have found this to be true. God is a jealous God, and Psalms 23 show God protects HIS SHEEP. He does.
---kathr4453 on 12/16/21


In 67 years, there is not one moment in my life where I felt completely relaxed and carefree that scripture made perfect sense and was impeccably/utterly rational.
..... AM I THE ONLY ONE?
---more_excellent_way on 12/10/21

No you are not the only one. Im 65. I felt that way 40 years. Not now. No man (woman) can twist GODs witnesses to confusion or false doctrine when witnesses are sought and applied. Gonna believe men or GODs prophets?
As foundational find New Covenant. Heb 8:8-10. Believe GOD? Find why it is worded the way it is. Find Jer 31:31-33.
Gen 17:7, 32:28. Lev 20:26, Deu 7:6-9, 10:15, 14:2, 29:13, 32:8-9.
2Sam 7:23-24. Many many more lay out fundamental truths, that denoms avoid. They must.
---Trav on 12/12/21


Read These Insightful Articles About Accounting


Teachers can be imperfect. This is why we shouldn't 100% rely on what preachers tell us, but we should study things for ourselves, like the Bereans. Paul praised the Bereans, because they didn't just take everything they were told for granted - they "searched the scriptures daily, to see if these things be so".

If a teacher teaches you something wrong, and you believe it uncritically, it's like the blind leading the blind, and both fall into a pit.
---StrongAxe on 12/12/21


Our teachers neglect to teach us SO MUCH that is important for us to know.
---more_excellent_way on 12/11/21

I agree that teachers neglect much. They must. They are not authorized by GOD. Otherwise they could not and would not neglect.

If you believe this below you wont neglect to post it.

Jer 31:31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32***** I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, ***I will put my law in their inward parts, write it in their hearts, will be their God, they shall be my people.
---Trav on 12/12/21


Our teachers neglect to teach us SO MUCH that is important for us to know. The Lord decided to make a plan to get us back even though the LAW OF SIN/DEATH would prevent our return....He said....

I WILL BE ANGRY WITH YOU NO MORE.

....so He abolished the commandments and replaced them with the law of liberty so we could walk at liberty....
Psa 119:45
and I shall walk at liberty, for I have sought thy precepts.I WILL BE ANGRY WITH YOU NO MORE.

Isa 54:9..(quote from the ESV version of scripture).
This is like the days of Noah[fn] to me:
as I swore that the waters of Noah
should no more go over the earth,
so I have sworn that I will not be angry with you.
Isa 54:9
"For this is like the days of Noah
---more_excellent_way on 12/11/21


Copyright© 2017 ChristiaNet®. All Rights Reserved.