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Many people only "WANT" from God whatever they can get (cold-hearted greed)...NOTHING MORE.

GOD cannot save anyone who does not fall madly in love with His son.

Heb 7:25
Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him

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 ---more_excellent_way on 1/10/22
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Strongaxe, this post is what I'm talking about. Your verse re, only God is Good, ruffled David's feathers becoming a discussion about the SONS OF GOD....strange



StrongAxe
As I have said repeatedly, I think you're a good guy...someone I could sit down with to a good cup of coffee. I want you to understand, I don't want to discuss the Sons of God with you, because you stepped over the line.
Sometimes, in ignorance, people imply things that can be damming. And you were stepping over that line, and I didn't want you to go any farther.

Because sometimes, God reacts to those things whether they are said out of ignorance or not. I ended my discussion with you for that reason, ..

---David on 2/10/22
---kathr4453 on 2/23/22


David:

You wrote: Since this is not what you believe...

Where did you ever get the idea that I believe that? I NEVER said that. Why do you keep putting words in my mouth, and then condemning me for things I never said, but come only from your own imagination? That seems to be a common preoccupation among several people here.
---StrongAxe on 2/21/22


Yes and one thing we can see in Jesus earthly ministry...he's not a narcissist or goes around gaslighting others just to try to gain some kind of control over them. Some here think this is perfectly acceptable calling it a sinless act of love.

Then they reveal their delusional mind by presuming they created a reaction in you that gives them some sort of green light they have accomplished God's will.

Such people are dangerous not only to themselves but to others.

Keep yourselves IN THE LOVE OF GOD folks. For He that us in you is stronger than he that is IN the world. These are Satan's sock puppets. They will get worse and worse. And many will be sucked into their lies, taking you down with them.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/22


Our Father does want us to love His own Son, Jesus. Plus, we are destined to be "conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (in Romans 8:29) So, it is wise to be preparing for this.

But why does our Father want us to become and to love like Jesus . . . Dave? Because Jesus is so pleasing to our Father.

Jesus does say, "He who has seen Me has seen the Father," in John 14:9. So, this means Jesus is good like His Father, so He is so pleasing to Him, and is our example of how God is able to have us become.
---Bill on 2/12/22


David:

If Jesus didn't think he was good, and he was the only human being who was totally sinless, how can ANY other person be good, or presume to be good?
---StrongAxe on 2/11/22




Why did Jesus question people who called HIM good? ---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Because Jesus is not The Father, he is Son of God, two different personalities. Since this is not what you believe, what I am about to say won't make much sense...but try to look at it in that context.

Jesus corrected the man, who called him Good, because the Glory belonged to God the Father. If God the Father is the only one who is Good, Jesus was not about to take credit for that.

It's like being at work and a coworker shares an idea with you. You take that idea to the company President. The President offers you a promotion and says...You are a Genius. Are you a Genius, deserving of a promotion?
---David on 2/11/22


David:

Then why did Jesus question people who called HIM good? Was there anything in your description that Jesus didn't fulfill?
---StrongAxe on 2/11/22


What is YOUR criterion for "good".
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
My criteria for Good?
Same as Gods...Doing what's righteous...his commandments..doing what God wants us to do. Those born of God, do not do Good, because they are Good. They are able, to do what is Good, because God who lives in them, is Good. God is the source of their Goodness, like the warmth which comes from a fire. To God be the Glory!!

And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God gave it light, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(Revelation 21:23-24)
And God said, Let there be light, and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good..
(Genesis 1:3-4)
---David on 2/11/22


David:

You believe I stepped over the line by claiming that Jesus sinned. But I never said that. I only said that when people called Jesus "good", he asked, "why do you call me good? Only God is good" (Matthew 19:17, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19) - implying that Jesus didn't even consider himself good.

Then I asked what you think the Bible's criterion for "good" is, and what is YOUR criterion for "good".
---StrongAxe on 2/10/22


David is hilarious in his ramblings of why he no longer talks to you Strongaxe, yet doesn't hesitate to slander me and show no fear. Talk about hypocrisy. LOLAROTF

DAVID HAS REJECTED CHRIST CRUCIFIED AND RISEN AND THINKS THOSE WHO PREACH THE CROSS OF CHRIST AS ENEMIES OF JESUS.

I STAND WITH PAUL HERE.

Galatians 6:14
But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Ephesians 2:16
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
---kathr4453 on 2/10/22




StrongAxe
As I have said repeatedly, I think you're a good guy...someone I could sit down with to a good cup of coffee. I want you to understand, I don't want to discuss the Sons of God with you, because you stepped over the line.
Sometimes, in ignorance, people imply things that can be damming. And you were stepping over that line, and I didn't want you to go any farther.

Because sometimes, God reacts to those things whether they are said out of ignorance or not. I ended my discussion with you for that reason, not because you don't believe as I do...

Why do I discuss it with Kathrine?
Her doctrine is founded on the other side of the line, against Christ, and I want people to see that.
---David on 2/10/22


Strongaxe, yes the Devil has been working overtime to slander Christ and Christianity. And its not over, when taking into account the anti_Chist final act yet to come if we can see he pretends to be God or Christ Himself, just as Jesus warned. And what I'm seeing is after this last episode with Mr Trumps followers, Q, etc,people, and many who believe themselves to be Christians will fall for that too.

Stay in the Word of God and remember NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. Jesus was the PERFECT Example when here who being GOD IN THE FLESH still didn't put himself above the law.

Thou shall not LIE, CHEAT. KILL, ETC. That goes for our leaders too. We should know them by their fruit.
---kathr4453 on 2/10/22


Interestingly beginning in Acts 1 The Jews asked WHAT MUST I DO TO BE SAVED? This was long before Paul entered the scene. Yet all the Apostles at that time say NOTHING of what David says Jesus taught. They answered BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. Nothing about...confess till your sinless. Keep the commandments until sin dies. Not one word from any of the Apostles Taught David's dogma. Paul is not the issue here DAVID IS.

And yes, John tells us about those who will be part of the SECOND DEATH. Did Jesus even mention a second death?

Here John and Paul are in agreement. Because those who die WITH CHRIST TODAY will not be part of the second death.

I sure hope David learns this truth before judgement day.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/22


kathr4453:

Protestants too. Calvin executed people who disagreed with his theology. Bloody succession wars in England, based on Anglican vs. Catholic religious feuds. Colonies started by Quakers fleeing British religious orthodoxy. White Europeans stealing a continent from its former inhabitants while treating them like dirt, in the name of "manifest destiny". It's no wonder such efforts were not appreciated.

Haitians turned to voodoo because in their just fight to throw off their imperialist French oppressors, all of "Christian" Europe sided with the French against them, making them conclude that Christianity itself was their enemy.
---StrongAxe on 2/9/22


I'm not sure what secondary means here. All the Apostles are repeating Jesus teachings so all must be primary. The 4 Gospels were written by the Apostles, not Jesus. They were taught by Jesus just as Paul was.

Paul never said his teachings were secondary. And exactly what is secondary?

David's perhaps like any who are not Apostles might be considered secondary.

So again David's OPINION is what needs to be rebuked. Just making up nonsense doesn't make it true.

All the Apostles John , Peter, etc preached A RISEN CHRIST AFTER THE 4 GOSPELS WERE WRITTEN.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/22


Strongaxe, that truly is a sad story. Wasn't the Spanish inquisition at that time as well. Unfortunately for those persecuted by the RCC, during many years of horrific persecution, not only to Jews as well, but also murdering Christians who did not fall in line with the RCC. ITS sad that history wants to say the RCC is Christian, when many of us believe it is a Cult. It's funny how CULTS murder those who fail to fall in line. True Christianity has no such agenda.

But I think Romans 2 is talking about something else.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/22


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kathr4453:

It's hard to be drawn by the father, when his ambassadors drive people away. For 2000 years, Christians forbade Jews from owning land, slandered them, persecuted them, and recently murdered 6 million of them. This would make anyone say "I'd rather die than be one of YOU evil people".

In 1512, Spaniards executed Hatuey, Taino chief of Hispaniola. He was offered the chance to convert and go to heaven. He asked if there were Spaniards in heaven, and they said yes. He said "I'd rather be in hell than spend eternity with people like you".

Paul so rightly wrote: "'It is because of YOU God's name is blasphemed among the nations' as it is written."
---StrongAxe on 2/8/22


Trav
Many folks simply don't see the Gospel of Christ in its true light. They don't understand why Jesus doesn't appear to teach what Paul taught, and Paul doesn't appear to teach what Jesus taught.

They simply won't accept the teachings of Jesus Christ as foundational, and Paul's are secondary teachings.
They are like kindergarten students, who do not know their ABC's, and how to Count, sitting in with a grade school teacher believing he can teach them how to Read, Write and do Arithmetic.

Jesus Christ teaches us what we must do to be saved, Paul teaches what we must do after we are saved. Unfortunately, many will not learn this lesson until the Day of Judgment.
(1 Corinthians 3:2)
---David on 2/9/22


I love the verses in John 6. What's interesting is when reading the WHOLE CHAPTER, All the Jews turned away. Jesus then asked the disciples, " will you also turn away ?",comparing those who turned away to JUDAS.

Today and throughout the last 2000 years the majority of Jews have infact turned away from Jesus . Why, because Jesus Said "genuine faith is to eat my flesh and drink my blood".

Trav does not believe OR TEACH THIS TRUTH, and is no different than Judas in reality believing what Judas believed....kingdom now theology. Two peas in a pod.

If he were truly drawn to Jesus by the Father, he would be preaching Christ crucified and risen.

HE'S DEFINITELY NOT ONE DRAWN TO JESUS BY THE FATHER.
---kathr4453 on 2/8/22


Trav:

What "lifestyle" exactly? You keep bringing that up, yet never say what you mean. Are you afraid your vague accusations will be proven slanderous? If you have an accusation to make, be a man and say it openly, rather than just hiding behind vague innuendos.

Tucker Carlson does the same. He doesn't say things like "Tom killed his wife" because that will get him sued (and sometimes has). Instead, he says "Did Tom kill his wife? We want to know", which plants the seeds of accusation in his listener's minds without taking consequences for actually saying it. This is cowardice, just like your vague insinuations.
---StrongAxe on 2/7/22


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I have nothing more to say to you.
---David on 1/31/22

Wasted time anyway.
He/she is given over to their own way. Has never aligned Old with the New. Cant see or hear who wrote the scriptures or why. Opinions suiting his/her lifestyle are their religion. Runs from every specific verse because they must, not fitting their delusions.
Not drawn.
Joh 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:45It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
---Trav on 2/7/22


The real question to David concerning that verse is: was Jesus also referring to Himself as God? He has said, if you've seen me you have seen the Father.

I see David got all bent out of shape twisting Strongaxe words, however does David believe Jesus ACHIEVED sinless perfection or does David believe Jesus is God and was also referring to Himself ?

But David still hasn't explained his double minded beliefs of 1) achieving perfection in your own strength, as he has stated here over and over, 2) but uses a verse of one first being born of God aka a son, or child of God who relies totally on God not self effort.

Which is it David? If you say the latter, you owe me an apology ASAP.
---kathr4453 on 2/1/22


David:

You wrote: We have disagreed about the above verse, and your belief, those Born of God will continue to sin. But I never knew, until now, that included Jesus.
I have nothing more to say to you.


I didn't say that. I never said Jesus sinned. But look at what Jesus said here. Look very carefully. How do YOU interpret it? What is your definition of a "good person"? What do you think the Bible's definition of it is? And why do you think that Jesus himself would question those who call HIM good?
---StrongAxe on 1/31/22


But the verse David posted here in 1 John says nothing about achieving sinless perfection IN YOUR OWN FLESHLY STATE. It says those BORN OF GOD.

DAVID has claimed he has achieved sinless perfection in his unbornagain state.

Go back and read where he threw a temper tantrum when I questioned him on this. Having God's seed in you being born of God is not achieving sinless perfection ON YOUR OWN.

David can't remember from day to day what he believes.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/22


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Even JESUS HIMSELF did not consider himself to be good. How can you expect us to attain a perfection that even Jesus himself did not claim for himself?---StrongAxe

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for His seed remaineth in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:9)

StrongAxe
We have disagreed about the above verse, and your belief, those Born of God will continue to sin. But I never knew, until now, that included Jesus.
I have nothing more to say to you.
---David on 1/31/22


David, I've started a thread on this subject of sinless perfection. Rather than taking over threads where this is not the subject matter, let's all use that one. This way too let's see the different doctrines addressing this issue. If perhaps others will answer and not be afraid of your wrath you may see you are alone on this issues.

Holiness doctrine may believe it's possible but only AFTER you are saved and have the Holy Spirit within to help..
you however claim you have achieved in your own strength.....

You may see others here too who do not believe in sinless perfection in this lifetime and why.

Maybe they can show you something I'm not able to. Or maybe you'll be open to others since you are not open to me.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/22


David:

From the very scripture that you quoted: Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God.

I.e. Even JESUS HIMSELF did not consider himself to be good. How can you expect us to attain a perfection that even Jesus himself did not claim for himself?
---StrongAxe on 1/30/22


I do keep those commandments David, but that still doesn't make me sinless.

When we walk in the Spirit we are not committing the sins of the flesh. However David believes that IN HIS FLESH he can achieve sinless perfection. If this were so, those under the Law of Moses could have too. But that was the problem with the Pharisees. Until Jesus set them straight. He said to them....let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I'll bet if David were in that group he would have cast stones. You will see none of them did.

David MANY DIFFERENT DENOMINATIONS reject your doctrine. Why single me out? You can find multitudes of articles rejecting the doctrine of sinless perfection. Your obsession with me is alarming.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/22


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NO scripture teaches David's rantings....Not through our own self effort to become sinless.--Kathrine

This is what I was pointing out, Kathrine believes Jesus a Liar too. The question is..Do you?

And behold, one came and said unto Him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And He said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but One, that is, God. But if thou wilt enter into Life, keep the commandments. He said unto Him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not bear false witness, honor thy father and thy mother, and, thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
(Matthew 19:16-19)
---David on 1/30/22


The Word of God does not say.."to as many as achieve sinless perfection to them gave he the power to become a son and no longer a servant".

Therefore I reject David's interpretation and I believe God's Word alone. We are sons ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE "IN THE SON" AND "THE SON IS IN US".

John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
---kathr4453 on 1/30/22


David:

Why assume other people who disagree with you are sock puppets? Beena's writing style differs from kathr's.

I'm not "following" anyone here. I say what I believe the Bible teaches. If others say the same, it's because they also believe the Bible says that - which is different from what you seem to think that it says. Again, in such cases, you would do well to examine whether your position is, in fact, correct - because "Everyone else is wrong, I alone am right" is (on rare occasion) the opinion of a genius, but much more often, it's the voice of delusion.

We see the same today with "Scientists who spent 50 years studying epidemics say one thing, but I know better."
---StrongAxe on 1/29/22


We are sons THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. Not through our own self effort to become sinless. NO scripture teaches David's rantings no matter how many tantrums he throws here.


Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son, and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/22


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David, just wondering, has all this criticizing helped you in your Christian walk?
---michael_e


Michael
Actually it does help, helps me to expose the foolishness of their doctrines. They seem to believe in everything, except what Jesus taught, and then they say they believe in him.

Now admittedly,...that I don't understand. How do you believe in someone, but believe everything they taught..was a lie. Jesus called it foolishness for a reason. But...if they want to follow, I really have no authority to stop them. But I can show the foolishness behind their doctrines.

(John 8:34 & 35) is "Salvation 101", a direct teaching from the one they call Lord, and if they think its a lie, not much I can do.
---David on 1/29/22


StrongAxe
You strangely took her side when it was obvious she was using the name Samuel. She also goes by the name Beena. Now she is either being deceitful, or she has a multiple personality disorder. In either case, do you really want to be her follower?

Use your common sense this time. Go to Beena's comment page and notice how Beena....only comes out in tandem with Kathrine to comment against me....no one else. Also notice, Samuel has not commented since I exposed her lie, back in November. She may fool you, but she doesn't fool me.
Caution: If you continue to follow her, you just might end up in a ditch. (Luke 6:39)
---David on 1/29/22


David:

No. I FIRST examine what I believe based on what the Bible says. However, when there is disagreement in interpretation, I THEN look at how 2000 years of Christian scholars have looked at the same issue. It is sheer arrogance to say "I am right, and 2000 years of Christians were all wrong", which is what you are doing, and what Trav is doing. This is exactly how cults form, and the justification they use to go against everyone else.

YOU believe YOUR teachings are founded on the teachings of Christ.

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he GAVE his only begotten son". This is a GIFT. Gifts are unmerited, just like Grace. Thus, Jesus taught grace.
---StrongAxe on 1/29/22


John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.


It's right here in John. Paul didn't MAKE UP GRACE.
---kathr4453 on 1/29/22


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Also, if anyone has problems with churches not accepting what they say, they would do well to carefully examine whether or not the problem is with the churches themselves, or with what they themselves are saying.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
And that's the difference, the difference between those who have been called and those, who have been chosen. You have unknowingly, revealed a truth in your statement. You examine yourself against what men teach, one of many false doctrines. People, like Trav and I, we examine our teachings against what multiple sources say...in the Bible.

You believe your teachings are founded on the teachings of Christ. If this is True, show me where Jesus taught Grace.
---David on 1/29/22


David, just wondering, has all this criticizing helped you in your Christian walk?
---michael_e on 1/29/22


David, are you jealous no one here has ever aligned themselves with your teaching? Now Trav may align himself with your loathing of others here, but that is not aligning with your doctrine.

Even you don't align with Trav teaching. You questioned Trav on that when you showed him ..." do not go to the Gentiles, but only to the lost sheep." Yet Trav LOST SHEEP he has redefined as Gentiles. But you just let it go. Why, because Trav is your sidekick bully. That's sin.

You've aligned yourself with a bully David, and just watch the bullying..... That's SIN.

And then you expect Strongaxe to come to your aid after standing by watching Trav bully Strongaxe. YIKES.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/22


David:

I agree with some (not all) of the points she makes. If you see a cat and a canary in the yard, and both are breathing, does that fact mean they are "birds of a feather" just because of that? Agreement has more nuance.

Also, if anyone has problems with churches not accepting what they say, they would do well to carefully examine whether or not the problem is with the churches themselves, or with what they themselves are saying. E.g. Trav is pushing a heterodox theology that is at variance with what most Christians all over the world have been teaching for almost 2000 years, yet he still insists that he is right.
---StrongAxe on 1/28/22


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David says he's not welcome in churches and his teachings are not welcome. I think that is the root of his anger issues, and he sees me as those representing the churches who have asked him to leave. He hates protestants for some reason.. yet I've told him I'm not protestant..

So what I see is David's personal crusade to stalk me and endlessly slander me as some vicarious way of hitting back at those who insulted him at those churches. But what David doesn't understand is he is his own worse enemy. If he treats and talks to others the way he talks here, THAT IS why he is unwelcome at any church he TRIES to FORCE his beliefs on. As Christians we are not to FORCE anything on anyone. This is the persona of a Cult leader.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/22


StrongAxe
Whenever we are discussing a subject with which we disagree..she runs to your side. Whenever I am discussing a subject with her, with which we disagree, you run to her side.

Do you see anyone, but you, aligning themselves with her in our discussions?
No!
"Birds of a Feather"
---David on 1/28/22


David seems to believe the Gospel didn't begin until Mark1:1. However when reading the whole chapter of Mark 1 you will see its talking about the beginning of Jesus 3 year ministry, the fulfillment of the promise of the Messiah, ( that promise goes all the way back to Genesis 3:15). And that even John the Baptist KNEW that the Baptism with fire Jesus baptized with was GREATER than John's baptism.

Now if you go to Galatians, we see Paul too tells us that this gospel was preached to Abraham, and that there was the promise OF THE SPIRIT to be given to Gentiles. GALATIANS 3:14. This same gospel in Mark 1:1-10.

Hebrews 4:1-3 also say the gospel was preached to them as well as to us. It's all the same GOOD NEWS.
---kathr4453 on 1/28/22


David:

I haven't "aligned myself" with anyone. This isn't a matter of taking sides, or "us vs. them", despite how some people on these blogs seem to think discussions should work. This isn't a Battle Royale where the person who shouts the loudest wins the prize (which is having their ego elevated to a platform higher than everyone else's). It is (or should be) about finding the truth, wherever that happens to lead us, whether conforms with our own comfortable preconceptions or not.

I say what I happen to believe is true. If that sounds like what someone else says, it's because we happen to agree on that particular point (and *possibly* others). It doesn't in any way imply that we agree on everything.
---StrongAxe on 1/27/22


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David, the Gospel began in the OT, not the new or either with Paul. The NC promised the Holy Spirit. We see immediately in Acts 1 before Paul many were saved, given the Holy Spirit and ADDED TO THE CHURCH DAILY. It appears in one day thousands were saved.

Jesus said YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN. And Paul in Roman's 6-8 only reiterate what Jesus taught. Only those crucified with Christ and raised a new creature are BORN FROM ABOVE. Only those are as Jesus prayed in John 17 I IN THEM AND THOU IN ME THAT WE MAY BE ONE.. And Roman's 8 is the NEW COVENANT of being given the Holy Spirit to walk in. BEING ONE WITH GOD IN CHRIST JUST AS COLOSSIANS 3:1-4 ALSO REITERATE.

If you truly understood Jesus teachings you would understand this.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/22


Where did Kathr4453 say anything about her teachings of Romans? What exactly are her teachings David? All I see are her references to Romans 6-8, Just as you reference your verses.

Please show exactly what kathr4453's teachings are in Romans 6-8. I think these chapters are self explainatory. How would you teach Romans 6-8 David? Where exactly is your issue. Please be specific.

I suggest you work through your anger David. You seem to have anger issues. Nothing is resolved with anger. And being angry someone has a different belief than you do is not spiritual, but carnal. Your outbursts are not convincing anyone you know truth.
---Beena on 1/27/22


See, that's where David is all wet behind the ears. David has no clue what Roman's 6-8 is about and thats why "HE" can't reconcile it with Jesus teachings in the 4 Gospels.---Kathrine

See...Her statement proves my point. She wants me to reconcile the teachings of Jesus Christ with the way she teaches Pauls gospel. She doesn't want to reconcile the way she teaches Pauls Gospel, with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Why?
Paul and Jesus both taught Grace, but the teachings of Grace, the way she says Paul taught it, are not found anywhere in the Gospel of Christ.
If her doctrine was founded on the Gospel of Christ, it would be easy for her to prove me wrong.

Prove me wrong Kathrine!!

---David on 1/27/22


See, that's where David is all wet behind the ears. David has no clue what Roman's 6-8 is about and thats why "HE" can't reconcile it with Jesus teachings in the 4 Gospels. This problem is with David.

It's all right there in Jesus teachings.

But David. I'm going to leave you in your ignorance because no matter what one says, you have an unreachable and unreachable spirit.

Because YOU LIE TOO, and accuse me of things not true ALSO KNOWN AS SIN.....you are still unsaved and cannot understand spiritual things in the first place.
---kathr4453 on 1/27/22


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StrongAxe
I agree with you, but Kathrine believes Paul's epistles (Romans 6-8) are the foundational teachings of Salvation. She believes, After Jesus ascended, the teachings Paul received from the Lord, became the new foundation.

Not the New Covenant of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, but a Newer Covenant. And I mentioned the years it took before Pauls ministry got off the ground, to show the foolishness of the teaching.

As you should well know, Kathrine doesn't believe the teachings of Jesus Christ, those he gave to his disciples in Matthew, Mark,Luke and John, are the foundational teachings of Salvation. Since you have alined yourself with her, I thought you believed as she does.
---David on 1/27/22


"Many people only 'WANT' from God whatever they can get (cold-hearted greed)...NOTHING MORE."

Well, it does seem there is ministry which talks mainly or only about how God loves "you", and therefore He will give you this and that. But it might not give much, if any, attention to how God loves us and therefore corrects us to become like Jesus and to love like Jesus.

Hebrews 12:4-14 talks about the correction we have because our Father loves us.

"But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition." (in 1 Timothy 6:8-10)
---Bill on 1/26/22


David:

So what? We're talking about the Church of Christ, not the Church of Paul. Paul was not the only Apostle. The others were doing their own ministry during that entire time.

Just because someone happened to write something down at some given point doesn't mean that thing only started to be true at that point. It may just have been the first time it was noted (or more precisely, the first time WE know about it. We don't know everything all the Apostles said and did during their whole lives.)

The Americas were here before Columbus "discovered" them. Gravity existed before Newton discovered it - people weren't just flying around and suddenly crashed to the ground when Newton set pen to paper.
---StrongAxe on 1/25/22


1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

To KNOW you HAVE eternal life is present tense. To know you have eternal life is TO KNOW YOU ARE SAVED.

If you don't KNOW you HAVE eternal life you may want to check and see if you are IN the faith.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/22


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Actually the majority of false doctrine omits Paul altogether.

They are more focused on legalism. Kingdom now theology. Reconstruction theology. Replacement theology.

So no. The ROOT is religion. Any religion, even pagan religions. Christianity is not a religion, but the Person of Jesus Christ.
---kathr4453 on 1/25/22


Nope David, that's what michael_e' HYPER-DISPENSATIONALISM teaches. Another False doctrine.

Until you can DISCERN these different posts and beliefs, along with Trav saying only Jews are saved, your opinions and comments here only expose your ignorant accusations.
---kath4453 on 1/25/22


StrongAxe * 2:8-9:

It reads you HAVE been saved (past tense)

In Phil: 2:12 " Work out our salvation with fear and trembling." (Present tense)


3.Romans 13:11 'Salvation is nearer to us now then when we first believed." ( Future tense) Paul goes on and tell us in 2 Tim 4:7 " keep our faith" then we will be saved.

Jesus says in Matt 12:36-37 " On the day of JUDGEMENT men will render account for every careless words they utter,for by our words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned. "

in Rev 2:23 Jesus says " I am he who searches mind and hearts, and I give to each of you as your works deserve."

Read Romans 2: 6-7!
---Ruben on 1/25/22


Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
(Galatians 1:18)
Then fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also.
(Galatians 2:1)

17 years folks...17 years!!! Was the church on Hiatus, all that time, waiting for Paul to give the church the foundational teachings of Salvation?
Kathrine and StrongAxe think so...do you?
---David on 1/25/22


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Actually one has to be saved first to be able to HUNT false doctrine. Too funny. Tim Hunt and Walter Martin David IS NOT, nor ever will be.

Delusions of grandeur do have red flags, and David's has popped up all over the place.

David should be working out his own salvation with fear and trembling and stop intruding uninvited into anothers faith relationship with the Lord disecting their beliefs as if he were God.

Bankers don't study counterfeit money , they study real money ONLY.

Davids doctrine IS COUNTERFEIT.
---kathr4453 on 1/24/22


Ruben
I study false doctrines trying to find their roots, in the hopes I can pull them out...root and all.

Took a long time, but I finally came to understand the foothold of the false doctrine. The problem is,...foundation. Many of the false doctrines, have built their foundation entirely on Paul's epistles. Now since Paul was not a false teacher, this shouldn't be a problem. But it does become a problem, when they do not teach Paul's epistles...in their entirety.

It can be a head scratcher for those of us who read Pauls epistles as a compilation, whereas they treat his epistles like one who dissects a frog in a biology class.
---David on 1/23/22


Reuben:

You wrote: We merit salvation by cooperating with God's grace to do the works he prepared for us! Mt 25:45...

Merit means we earn it - so it's not a gift.

I frequently refer to Matthew 25.

Still waiting for the scripture verse that tells me we are saved by Faith alone.

I literally quoted Ephesians: 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Matthew 7:17-23 talks about those who boast.
---StrongAxe on 1/22/22


StrongAxe *Yes, the next verse says we are prepared for good works - but it doesn't say we are SAVED by those good works.

We merit salvation by cooperating with God's grace to do the works he prepared for us! Mt 25:45 " Truly I tell you , just as you DID NOT do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it me. And these will go away into ETERNAL PUNISHMENT"

StrongAxe * Salvation (a GIFT of God), and rewards for good works (which are earned) are two separate things.

But if you reject his gift, which we have free will and don't do the work prepared by God, the results will be the same..Eternal punishment!

Still waiting for the scripture verse that tells me we are saved by Faith alone.
---Ruben on 1/22/22


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Ruben:

Yes, the next verse says we are prepared for good works - but it doesn't say we are SAVED by those good works. Yes. God will render to each according to his works. Elsewhere he says that our works are tested by fire, and those without good works will have their works burned up in the first - *even though they themselves are saved*. Salvation (a GIFT of God), and rewards for good works (which are earned) are two separate things.
---StrongAxe on 1/20/22


StrongAxe * Ephesians: 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves:

The next verse says " For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for GOOD WORKS, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them."v 10

Paul reminds his audience in Romans that God " will render to every man according to his WORKS..RO 2: 6-7

StrongAxe *Matthew 7:22-23:

Jesus said the one who does the will of the Father not those who have faith only!

StrongAxe *1 Cor 3:11-15

This verse is an important witness to how believers in general will be judged after death! It is not by faith alone.








.
---Ruben on 1/20/22


Reuben:

Ephesians: 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Works are NOT involved in our salvation, so we couldn't boast like this:

Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 Cor 3:11-15 is specially says someone relying on works may be saved DESPITE works, but their works are destroyed.
---StrongAxe on 1/18/22


StrongAxe *We are SAVED by faith alone. We are JUSTIFIED by faith and works.

No where in scripture does it say we are save by faith alone. In fact the only place where the words faith and alone are together is in James 2:24 " not by faith alone."

StrongAxe * Paul says what happens to someone without works, or with bad works - they themselves are saved, although their works are destroyed as by fire.)

1 Cor 3:15 'if the works which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved." it has nothing to do about faith alone!
---Ruben on 1/18/22


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Strong Axe, I am sure everyone can justify their greed on way or another. If all poor people want is food, then why do so many government dependants have $1500 iPhone? That could buy more food than I consume in a year.
---Rambo on 1/18/22


Rambo:

Poor want money for food. Rich want it for a yacht.

OVER HALF of Americans on SNAP are employed, working for corporations too greedy to pay them a decent living wage. WalMart employees receive $6.2 BILLION in public assistance - money taxpayers have to pay, because WalMart won't. Their shareholders pocket that amount themselves.

McDonald's is a close second. McDonald's employees in the U.S. (pre-COVID) made $13 an hour, and get 3 weeks of paid vacation. In Denmark, they get $22 and 6 weeks, and a pension. The price of the burgers are about the same. It's not that McDonald's can't afford to pay workers here more. They just don't want to, and the law doesn't make them.
---StrongAxe on 1/17/22


I doubt there are many people, if any, who do not wish for financial blessings. However many people have it in their mind that only the rich are greedy. When they hear the word "greed" the instinctively picture some corporate executive (probably white male) in a suit. They don't picture the person living on entitlement programs willfully taking something they didn't work for from someone else. Which is more greedy, wanting to keep what you worked for, or taking what rightfully belongs to someone else? The love of money is the root of all evil, not money itself. The poor can be just as preoccupied with money (or their lack thereof) as a rich person can.
---Rambo on 1/14/22


There are different judgements, and one is the Judgment of Nations as well. So yes there are different judgements. Those allowed to enter into the 1000 year reign will still be earthly and this is 1000 years before the Great White Throne Judgment. In Matthew 24-25 you will not see the Lambs Book of Life mentioned. Why, because this is not the final Judgements. This Judgements is immediately at Jesus 2nd coming to earth.

This also is not the Judgement Seat of Christ the BOC will by judged at.
---kathr4453 on 1/13/22


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Ruben:

(Sorry, I said that was said by John, but it was actually Paul).

My point is that yes, these three remain, but our SALVATION is not rooted in all three of them.

We are SAVED by faith alone. We are JUSTIFIED by faith and works. (Elsewhere, Paul says what happens to someone without works, or with bad works - they themselves are saved, although their works are destroyed as by fire.)
---StrongAxe on 1/13/22


Sadly but so true. Too many Evangelicals are in it for the money.
---Samuelbb7 on 1/13/22


Exactly! John wrote that the three greatest things are Faith, Hope, and Love - yet we are saved by Faith, not by Hope, and not by Love. (Although, curiously enough, the judgment in Matthew 25 is based on Love, not Faith).
---StrongAxe on 1/12/22

"And now these three remain, Faith,Hope and Love. But the greatest of this is LOVE." 1 Cor 13:13

" For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, the only thing that counts is faith working through love." Gal 5:6

" You see that a person is justified by works and not bt FAITH ALONE." Jas 2:24
---Ruben on 1/12/22


kathr4453 :

You wrote: Strongaxe, I believe the verses in Matthew you always refer to is addressed to those who make it through the Great Tribulation after we see all that will come to pass in Matthew 24-25. You see Jesus as KING here on earth at that time.. Seeing the Great Tribulation is also know as the time of Jacob's Trouble, and anti_ Semitic will be at its height, the MY BRETHREN here are Jews Jesus is referring to. How the Jews are treated at that time, also is stated in Zachariah 12-14.

This judgement is not those saved by grace through faith today.


Jesus never made this distinction. He never said there was one set of rules for some people, and a different set of rules for others who come later.
---StrongAxe on 1/12/22


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Hebrews 7:25. Is another way of saying " no one can come to the Father except THROUGH His Son.

Strongaxe, I believe the verses in Matthew you always refer to is addressed to those who make it through the Great Tribulation after we see all that will come to pass in Matthew 24-25. You see Jesus as KING here on earth at that time.. Seeing the Great Tribulation is also know as the time of Jacob's Trouble, and anti_ Semitic will be at its height, the MY BRETHREN here are Jews Jesus is referring to. How the Jews are treated at that time, also is stated in Zachariah 12-14.

This judgement is not those saved by grace through faith today.
---kathr4453 on 1/12/22


kathr4453:

Exactly! John wrote that the three greatest things are Faith, Hope, and Love - yet we are saved by Faith, not by Hope, and not by Love. (Although, curiously enough, the judgment in Matthew 25 is based on Love, not Faith).
---StrongAxe on 1/12/22


God saves those who's faith is in His Son . No scripture says you must first be madly in love with Jesus before God will save you.

Those "many people" are not saved in the first place do they are getting nothing from God. They may be getting it from Satan pretending to be God, but not God.

And as long as Satan is feeding their greed, there is nothing you can say or do that will change their thinking. I don't think we need to worry about the MANY PEOPLE in that category. Let's focus on many people who need The Lord, not money.
---kathr4453 on 1/11/22


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