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Can We Become Sinless

Can sinless perfection be achieved in this lifetime? Please answer yes or no and why. Please refrain from name calling and rude comments to others who may disagree with you.

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 ---kathr4453 on 1/30/22
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Trav:
We were talking about Biden being evil.
--StrongAxe on 3/3/2

Are you saying he is not evil?
Say it be specific. Ha impossible.
Show us by same criteria you judged Trump. You havent and wont Hypocrite.
I have stated you both are evil. You both promote abortion.
You kneel before your master planner.
Disgusting.

Psa 26:5I have hated the congregation of evil doers, and will not sit with the wicked.
We wont sit with you.
---Trav on 3/4/22


Trav:

We were talking about Biden being evil. I asked you to state SPECIFIC charges, and SPECIFIC scriptures that he violated, and SPECIFIC evidence of him violating them. Instead of actually supplying these things (as the Bible requires with regards to all accusations), instead you keep going on a tirade, that "Scripture makes me a liar".

OK, PROVE IT. State a SPECIFIC thing I said, and a SPECIFIC SCRIPTURE that proves that it's a lie.

*YOU* are the one accusing Biden and me of atrocities, so PER THE BIBLE, it is up to *YOU* to state accusations, and prove them.
---StrongAxe on 3/3/22


Trav:
You constantly berate me for posting arguments without specifically including scriptures.
YOU don't decide "how it works here".
---StrongAxe on 3/1/22

Yeah, its how it works here. Scripture makes you a liar. In the Bible or in the world. TRUTH makes it work.
I berate / detest your fence straddling on abortion acting like you hate it, while supporting the supporters of it. Yes I berate you Snow White deflecto. Your post are your own worst witnesses.
List Bidens atrocities like you carefully done Trumps. Then list yours. ( never mind on yours we see who you support defend)
Just go on a Big woke about. You dont fit in here.

Psa 33:4 For the word of the LORD is right, all his works truth.
---Trav on 3/3/22


Trav:

You constantly berate me for posting arguments without specifically including scriptures.

But when I point out the Bible repeatedly requires all charges be proved by testimony of 2-3 witnesses, has severe punishments for bearing false witness, and condemns unsubstantiated gossip, YOU directly disobey scripture by making veiled accusations, with zero evidence, zero witnesses.

And, to add icing to the cake, say "that's not how it works here" about how THE BIBLE actually says justice works, on a CHRISTIAN SITE. What abject hypocrisy!

We dont care, just own it. Maybe go away.

YOU don't decide "how it works here". YOU don't speak for everyone. Perhaps you should take your own advice?
---StrongAxe on 3/1/22


Trav:
No. That's not how it works..
---StrongAxe on 2/27/22

Ha. Yeah its how it works here, we see him and you. You posted your defense, support. We all see you posted -YOU, your heart, your mind. Two sided, ashamed and afraid? Well yeah, but you are blind cause its you. We see you because Its in your post. He supports abortion, gays you support/defend/promote him. You yourself are not in the Closet any more by supporting the supporters. You made your choice. We dont care, just own it. Maybe go away.
Deu 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it, for it is a cursed thing.
---Trav on 2/28/22




The preaching of the Cross is clearly taught in scripture.

The promise of a redeemer who is Jesus Christ is clearly taught in scripture.

That Jesus is the WORD who is God is clearly taught in scripture.

That there is only ONE human race is clearly taught in scripture.

That Jesus would die and rise again is clearly taught in scripture.
---kathr4453 on 2/27/22


David, I'm not surprised at your false doctrine. You guys are a dime a dozen.


And your condescending comments with your air of arrogance is what makes you a dime a dozen.


But one thing I can absolutely say...you have NO CLUE what I believe because you continually misrepresent everything I say. That's because David, the NATURAL MAN cannot understand the things of the Spirit.

We also KNOW God didn't create two human races. So your very foundation is on sinking sand. All else built on that sinking sand will collapse even if you do have some truth peppered within.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/22


Trav:

No. That's not how it works. If you have accusations to make against Biden and/or me, it's up to YOU to state them, and up to YOU to prove them. Not just vague innuendos, but actual specific charges, with actual specific proof. The testmiony of 2-3 witnesses. This is how accusations work in the Bible, and if you knew the Bible as much as you seem to think you do, you would know this.

What Trump himself boasted of are matters of public record (e.g. hitting on married women, lusting after his own daughter) - as are what he and his family have been convicted of in court (e.g. defrauding charities they set up for veterans and cancer kids).
---StrongAxe on 2/27/22


Yes Kathrine, I feely admit my ignorance of false teachings. And you are Better than most at verbalizing them. These doctrines are not clearly written in the Bible, so I really dont have any other source than people like you to help me understand them the way you do.

The Holy Spirit only teaches me the truth, I have to look to people like you to teach me the lies. And if I can get you to understand they are lies, then you can turn and be saved.
---David on 2/26/22


We are to strive for perfection. We ae to Hebrews 13:20,21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/26/22




Yes Kathrine, I feely admit my ignorance of false teachings. And you are Better than most at verbalizing them. These doctrines are not clearly written in the Bible, so I really dont have any other source than people like you to help me understand them the way you do.

The Holy Spirit only teaches me the truth, I have to look to people like you to teach me the lies. And if I can get you to understand they are lies, then you can turn and be saved.
---David on 2/26/22


Of course we are made sinless through the atoning sacrifice of our Savior who was made to be sin that the believer could be made the righteousness of a God through the faith of Christ.
---Josef on 2/26/22


Interesting David has thanked me over and over for opening his eyes on this and that,openly admitting he's spent his life in ignorance until I came along.

This condescending speak is hilarious...

But one day God WILL hold you accountable where you cannot say..I DIDN'T KNOW THAT, because you here have admitted now you know but have openly rejected...having no more cloke to hide under.

If that's all God has used us for, PRAISE GOD. We're not asked to FORCE anyone.

David has heard and rejects the preaching OF THE CROSS. HE clearly says it's foolishness to him. God clearly says those who reject ARE LOST.

David IM GLAD you say I've opened your eyes, but sad YOU CHOSE TO CLOSE THEM BY YOUR OWN FREE WILL.
---kathr4453 on 2/26/22


If they cant, blindness is no fault of yours. Use opportunity to post to those Christ sought. ---Trav

You're right, Brother.
I really need to learn how to ignore them. Got one who uses name calling and insults to hide behind, and the other asks for answers to questions he doesn't want to know the answers.

Folks
You really need to check these teachings which have fooled many people. Following then doesn't make you a fool, but it will lead to death, if you simply trust in them and don't test them against the Word of God. This is an advantage many generations did not have...so please, use it!!

Foolishness...To challenge what's written in the Bible, with teachings written nowhere in the bible.
---David on 2/26/22


David:

I have asked you this question several times, but you still haven't answered: How many Christians do YOU, PERSONALLY know who live perfect lives, and who have never sinned even once after being saved?

How many churches do you know that are made up entirely of perfect people?

I once heard a saying: "If you ever find a perfect church, don't join it - because then it will no longer be perfect".

We are constantly encouraged to strive to be perfect - but how many actually achieve that perfection?
---StrongAxe on 2/25/22


Trav:
I don't claim perfection, but I try. HE boasts of sin:
---StrongAxe on 2/21/22

Number and Post Bidens.
And Post yours.
Jealous Hypocrite. You stand with your evil leaders abominations abortion and gays and carefully post what you dont, cant verify personally.
Perhaps HE asked forgiveness. Ill take 1/2 of him for a leader over 100,000 of you or your confident evil choices.
Pro 14:16A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
Pro 14:22Do they not err that devise evil? but mercy and truth shall be to them that devise good.
---Trav on 2/25/22


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Trav
. They don't understand why Jesus doesn't appear to teach what Paul taught, and Paul doesn't appear to teach what Jesus taught.
---David on 2/9/22

If they cant, blindness is no fault of yours. Use opportunity to post to those Christ sought.
Paul quotes and refers to OT over 260 times. Linking old to new. For both houses of Israels confirmation. He was blind spiritually and blinded physically for emphasis his condition.

Luk 24:25Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Luk 24:25.slow of heart.
---Trav on 2/25/22


Folks
This is what I truly love about Kathrine, she opens my eyes to what many folks believe. I'm not saying...Christians don't sin. What I say...And the Bible says..Are those who are born of God...do not sin.

There are those Christians who have been saved and Those Christians who haven't been saved. Some were Christians for over 100 years, and they haven't been saved.
What makes the difference?
Those who are born again, follow Jesus, and those who are not, have been led astray by a false doctrine. It's very easy to do, since there are thousands of them and only one Gospel. Not only are we born into sin, but also when we are born, we are born as followers of men.
---David on 2/25/22


Folks
This is what I truly love about Kathrine, she opens my eyes to what many folks believe. I'm not saying...Christians don't sin. What I say...And the Bible says..Are those who are born of God...do not sin.

There are those Christians who have been saved and Those Christians who haven't been saved. Some were Christians for over 100 years, and they haven't been saved.
What makes the difference?
Those who are born again, follow Jesus, and those who are not, have been led astray by a false doctrine. It's very easy to do, since there are thousands of them and only one Gospel. Not only are we born into sin, but also when we are born, we are born as followers of men.
---David on 2/25/22


"Brother" here mean other SAVED CHRISTIANS. Galatians 6:1 also suggest Christians do sin. We just don't continue practicing lawlessness.
1 John 5:16
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1 John 5:17
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
---kathr4453 on 2/23/22


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Trav:

I don't claim perfection, but I try. HE boasts of sin:
1) Shared tweet calling him "King of Israel" and "Second Coming of God"
2) Spent charity money on portraits of himself
3+8) Boasts negotiating contracts then refusing to pay is good business practice
4) Never goes to church, golfs instead
5) Mocked dad's Alzheimer's. Tried to invalidate dad's will so he would inherit all
6) Deliberately downplayed COVID so he could blame Democratic governors on Democrat deaths
7) Cheated on all wives. Boasts of hitting on married women
9) 40K+ lies or misleading statements while in office
10) Jealous when anyone accomplishes something he doesn't - e.g. winning Oscars, Nobel Prizes
---StrongAxe on 2/21/22


David, you lowered yourself when you exalted yourself in a condescending post claiming some delusional reply the you claim "WE" ( whoever "we" is ) have gotten to you creating fear in you, PROVE YOU STARTED THE GASLIGHTING HERE ON PURPOSE.

The very idea you are so blind to your instigating here is beyond words. BUT YOUR NOT BLIND HERE OR BLAMELESS.

I have no fear of not being saved, as you think you have created, and you should just have taken my word for it rather than inject yourself where it's not wanted.

It's called Gaslighting David. Projecting onto someone else YOUR thoughts in order to get a reaction....and it's evil to the core.

Gaslighting is SIN DAVID.
---kathr4453 on 2/21/22


David, Your comments show how much Power Satan has over you, because narcissism is I believe demonic. Claiming you are sinless is the epitome of Narcissism. Why, because all your posts are about YOU. How perfect YOU are, how sinless YOU are, how we are to be just like YOU. Only YOU know the truth. It just goes on and on.

You know why Satan fell? NARCISSISM. ....he wanted to be the one worshipped. He wanted to be God. Also look in Rev...the WOMAN...MYSTERY BABYLON....Hear her words...I SIT A QUEEN AND WILL NOT BE MOVED.

That's you David....mirroring the enemies of God. Trying to create FEAR as though you were God. IT DIDNT WORK... WHY, Because He who is IN ME is stronger than he who is in the world. YOU LOSE!
---kathr4453 on 2/21/22


Why David Gaslights. What to watch out for when coming in contact with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Remember Christians, HE WHO IS IN YOU IS STRONGER THAN HE WHO IS IN THE WORLD. CHRIST IN YOU overcomes the evil intentions of gaslighting narcissists. These people are all around and have become more prevalent today. #2 Timothy 3#


Narcissists gaslight because:
They can convince other people that you're in the wrong. Gaslighting fits in with their capacity for lying. Gaslighting is an effective way to attack the core of who you are potentially making you more willing to do what the narcissist wants you to do and to become dependent on them. Nov 24,2020
---kathr4453 on 2/21/22


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Trav:
You call *me* a judging hypocrite?!
---StrongAxe on 2/19/22

Oh yes. Well it may be on your part sometimes just jealousy. Like a broken record you claim Trump broke all commandments. So what? Youve broke your share too. Do you know if he repented.
Oh well time to post your daily Kryptonite.
Mar 12:29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel, The Lord our God is one Lord:
(Hear, ****)
Luk 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
---Trav on 2/20/22


- Christ-like replies only

Kathrine
The manner in which you draw people into a conversation, could hardly be considered Christ like. I hope I gave you a good look in the mirror.

I know you're smart enough and mature enough to defend your position. So you don't need to lower yourself to that level. I understand your anger, but recognize who is the true source of your anger.

StrongAxe and I disagree, but I don't recall him ever stooping to that level. If I don't respond to him it's not because I don't care, it's because he views Christ through the eyes of the world, and not the world through the eyes of Christ.
---David on 2/21/22


Psalm 26:2 Examine me, O Lord, and prove me, try my reins and my heart.

Psalm 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

These verses are not for the faint hearted. But only those who thurst after righteousness will pray this as David did.

It's what our testing is about, and what is revealed through that testing. If you've never actually flown a plane, you really can't teach me how to fly.

If you've never been tried by fire, you have not been PROVED or approved of God. Take those folks with a grain of salt. They think their bullying is righteous...no...it's just bullying. Cowardly Wannabe cultleaders.
---kathr4453 on 2/20/22


"Please refrain from name calling and rude comments to others who may disagree with you". ---kathr4453 on 1/30/22


David , your condescending post here is pathetic and easily seen through as arrogance ....David rejects scripture supporting scripture. Poor David is trying to light his own candle...Nothing David, not even YOUR inept efforts can separate me.... Again your delusional mind is exposing itself AGAIN....---kathr4453 on 2/19/22
---David on 2/20/22


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It's telling what David fails to see. Satan tested and tempted Jesus 40 days in the wilderness/desert. But we see Jesus OVERCOME the evil one. None of Satan's tricks, lies etc could cause Jesus to doubt or succumb to Satan's tricks. And David here, who is working for the Devil is trying to do the same here with others, BUT HAS FAILED with those who ARE OVERCOMERS IN CHRIST.

David has clearly exposed himself here. He's clueless what an OVERCOMER is and how one is an overcomer. Even the friends of Job, who may have meant well were WRONG and God rebuked them. They were religious, but being religious doesn't mean they were right.
---kathr4453 on 2/20/22


David , your condescending post here is pathetic and easily seen through as arrogance is SIN. Hopefully if you should ever SUFFER by the grace of God, that smirky attitude will be crushed to dust.

David rejects scripture supporting scripture. That's sad.

THE LIGHT LIVES IN ME and when Christ is IN YOU, HIS LIGHT IS ALSO IN YOU. Poor David is trying to light his own candle.

When you become an overcomer David, you will have a better understanding of who we are IN CHRIST.

I'll keep you in prayer David. Praying for your salvation according to GOD'S WAY.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/22


2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Thank you David for finally revealing who YOU work for....and it's NOT GOD.

Nothing David, not even YOUR inept efforts can separate me from the Love of God IN CHRIST JESUS.

Again your delusional mind is exposing itself AGAIN. Repent David.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/22


Trav:

You call *me* a judging hypocrite?!

I'm not the one here who is constantly judging and condemning people. You are. Remove the plank from your own eye before criticizing the speck in others'. That's scripture, but it should be well enough known that I shouldn't need to cite the chapter and verse to you.
---StrongAxe on 2/19/22


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David:
One must build a world view***
****"If you don't accept what I am saying, that means you're rejecting God", which assumes that they're the only ones who know the truth 100%..
---StrongAxe on 2/14/22

Ha. What a judging hypocrite legend you are. Post scripture you cant unify or discuss and the other guy is wrong. Wow.
Ive carefully never posted any scripture that was not verified by other scripture. Example: Heb 8:8-10 / Jer 31:31-33.
I post scripture you wont, and cannot because it does not fit your One World Cult socialist view.
Proudly I am American and will post all scripture refuting you and your propaganda. Scripture always has and will always dominate your opinions.
---Trav on 2/18/22


So if you're trying to create fear mongering it's not working.---kathr4453

Kathrine
I believe it is. It's the Holy Spirit, not me, creating your fear. Which means, we're getting through to you. You have given me hope for folks like you, folks who believe in a false doctrine, so much, I believed the light of Truth could not pierce through its darkness. Zealous much like Paul, before he was converted.

Kathrine...in all honesty, It would give no greater pleasure than to see you find your way back into the light. Just don't close your mind. Use the sacrifice Jesus provided you with, and learn the Truth. Go to God and confess your sins. And no, Itemizing your sin like they do in a Catholic church is not necessary.
---David on 2/19/22


If you believe Jesus is a "g"od or (lower case g, or Michael the arch-angel etc, you will NEVER be an overcomer.

1 John 5:4-5 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Son with a Capital S. JUST AS JOHN 8:35-36 CLEARLY SHOW THERE IS ONLY ONE SON with a Capital S. WE, IN CHRIST ARE sons, lower case s. Not to be confused with the angels called sons of God. Again lower case s.

"JESUS" last words in Rev 21:7
Revelation 21:7
He that overcometh shall inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
---kathr4453 on 2/19/22


We are to constantly strive to be sinless. That is being sanctified. We are not to look to see if we are.

We are to look to see if we are walking in love. Love of all is our goal.
---Samuelbb7 on 2/19/22


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David, we come to God through Jesus Christ because we are sinners in need of a savior. Sinners who love their sin have no need for God or Jesus, so I don't understand your analogy or question.

As per what Bill is showing...I personally have NO FEAR because God has so established His unconditional love for me that is IN CHRIST JESUS. And it's exactly what Paul shows us at the end of Roman's 8..LIFE NOR DEATH NOR ANYTHING CAN SEPERATE ME FROM THE LOVE OF GOD THAT IS IN CHRIST JESUS. So if you're trying to create fear mongering it's not working. I know who I am and what I HAVE IN CHRIST. Do you? If you claim to be sinless but never had your faith tested, you've been deceived by the evil one. You've been lied to and you believed a lie.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/22


I also believe if one looks very carefully, you will see not only Paul, but James, Peter and John all have this same message. To be an OVERCOMER we go through trials and testing. James 1 clearly set the stage in chapter 1 this fact of the testing OF OUR FAITH, and it's end result...1 Peter 4 clearly show the fellowship of His sufferings and what Gods purpose is for, Job in these truths is used as an example for us. Job said I SHALL COME FORTH AS GOLD. He never said I shall come forth sinless. Paul in Philippians 3, Colossians 2-3, Galatians ALL OF IT, and 1,2 and 3 John and Revelation is all about being an OVERCOMER.
---kathr4453 on 2/18/22


As much as our character has been changed by God so we are like Jesus, we enjoy His good which comes with how He has overcome this evil world.

For example >

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (in 1 John 4:18)

So, if our character is of God's love, we have His almighty power to overcome any fear. And perfection is not only about what we can understand sin to be, but we have character against howsoever Satanic things would infect our character and effect our emotions and how we are relating with others.

Can we be perfected . . . "in this world" . . . in God's own love? > 1 John 4:17.
---Bill on 2/18/22


David, when Jesus was tested 40 days, what sin did He overcome? And where does scripture say to overcome sin?

It's fair to say you still don't understand the testing OF YOUR FAITH. We see James examples of Abraham and Rahab, re faith with works, but where does it say Rahab and Abraham achieved sinless perfection when they obeyed God?

It's clear to see you have never had your faith tested, so it's all like trying to understand a foreign language ...one you've never heard before.

But that language and understanding to those IN CHRIST is revealed clearly to us by the Holy Spirit IN US.

YES OR NO.....HAS YOUR FAITH BEEN TESTED?
---kathr4453 on 2/18/22


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Can sinless perfection be achieved in this lifetime? Please answer yes or no and why. ---kathr4453 on 1/30/22


When an Alcoholic, tries to Quit drinking, yet continues to drink...Are they an Overcomer?
No
When a Smoker, tries to Quit smoking, yet continues to smoke..Are they an Overcomer?
No
When a Drug Addict, tries to Quit drugs, yet continues to use them..Are they an Overcomer?
No

When a sinner tries to Quit sinning, yet continues to sin..Are they an overcomer?
Yes or No...and Why?
---David on 2/18/22


David doesn't grasp Paul's message. Trying to compare apples to oranges. Yet we see Jesus words again in Revelation after His resurrection reiterating this truth..THOSE WHO OVERCOME...

Start with 1 John 4:4, 5:1-5 Rev 2:7,2:11,2:17,2:26,3:5,3:12,3:21,21:7

None of these verses say to overcome SIN. WE overcome Satan. Jesus gave us His perfect example of this warfare when He was tested 40 days. Job was tried, and SAID I shall come forth as GOLD. He DID NOT SAY "I will come forth sinless."

Paul testifies in Philippians 3 exactly how he was an overcomer. The hint you have not overcome this world is stated at the end...THOSE WHO MIND EARTHLY THINGS ARE ENEMIES OF THE CROSS. WE OVERCOME THROUGH THE CROSS.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/22


Reading 1 John 5 .the WHOLE CHAPTER, John is saying to keep God's commandments but God's commandments are not Grievous. Interestingly in 1 John 5 we see this obedience leads to our overcoming THE WORLD. It doest say overcoming sin.

To be an OVERCOMER, is to overcome the evil one...who is Satan, the prince of this evil world. Ephesians 6:12. To OVERCOME we are taught in Ephesians is to rise ABOVE the powers and principalities of this world leads to Colossians 2:15-23 Colossians 3:1-4.

What Paul is teaching Christians is how to be OVERCOMERS. And clearly showing the law of Moses has NO POWER to achieve this. This is what we need to achieve IN CHRIST.....TO BE OVERCOMERS.
---kathr4453 on 2/17/22


Ruben
The Bible teaches, in both Old and New Testaments, those who Love God will keep his commandments. But people who follow false doctrines are blind to the word, Commandments. They have been duped into believing, through their teachings, "We are not under Law", the word Commandments means a suggestion.

A commandment is a Law, and if we are not under Gods law, Gods commandments are no longer Laws we must keep, but arbitrary suggestions.
They use Paul as their source to peddle these thoughts, but really, does (Romans 2:4-14) sound like that was his meaning?
Notice, when Paul teaches, "We are not under the Law", he specified he was referring to the "Works of the Law, The Law of Moses."
---David on 2/17/22


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Jesus never said if you do this or that you will become sinless. Also no scripture says one must achieve sinless perfection in order to be saved.

The Word SINLESS is not in scripture.

Perfect in scripture means mature, not sinless.


When God the Father sees us He sees us IN CHRIST, who alone is sinless.

Jesus also said in John 6 you MUST eat His flesh and drink His blood if you expect to be resurrected.

So David. How do you purpose to obey that TO DO WHAT JESUS SAID PART?
---kathr4453 on 2/16/22


What Jesus told them to do!..Ruben

Ruben
That's the answer I was looking for. Very few people recognize this fact. Which proves, if we follow the simple instructions Jesus gave to his disciples when he walked among us, we will be saved. If you do that, You believe in Him (John 3:16). But if you don't, it shows you don't trust in his Gospel..or him.

Now as to your question, "What must we do to be saved?"
The short answer is, You must Love God...and your neighbor...more than you love the things of this world (Matthew 22:36-37). Following the doctrine of Jesus Christ, through Gods Holy Spirit, is what causes this change in us.
( Romans 7:1-4)
---David on 2/16/22


John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the "Son" AKA JESUS CHRIST therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


The only real question here is: DAVID, HAS THE SON ....JESUS CHRIST MADE YOU FREE?

Have YOU obeyed John 8:36. There is no verse 35 stand alone verse that you keep insisting on.

No other chapter in scripture detail HOW The Son , Jesus Christ sets us free except Romans 6. Yet YOU have argued against claiming YOU ALONE have set yourself free. Isn't THAT DELUSIONAL? No other scripture supports your view.

This IS the Gospel YOU have not obeyed. So Thesselonians is actually addressed to you.
---kathr4453 on 2/16/22


David:

I never said "undermines". My point is, if two people say things that SEEM contradictory, but are both true, it means there's a deeper underlying truth we need to understand that shows how both of them are true. You can't just take one and ignore the others.

Also 2 Th 1:6-8 isn't about "conforming to a world view" but about correct actions - i.e. obeying the Gospel, not "troubling" the readers, etc.


Ruben:

David wrote: What Salvation doctrine did they follow?

You wrote: What Jesus told them to do! ... Matt 28:19-20

Yes, Jesus said that, but he didn't say that salvation was contingent on doing this. This was a doctrine, but not a SALVATION doctrine.
---StrongAxe on 2/15/22


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Who says the teachings of Paul and John undermine the teachings of Jesus Christ? No one but David keeps saying this. Jesus Himself said He must suffer and die....but for David's doctrine that isn't necessary is it?

Jesus' own words on the Cross.
"IT IS FINISHED"
Does David know what was FINISHED?

DIDN'T JESUS ALSO SAY HE HAD MORE TO TELL THEM AFTER HIS RESURRECTION?

David, do you think Jesus death and resurrection was unnecessary?
---kathr4453 on 2/15/22


What Salvation doctrine did they follow?
---David on 2/9/22

What Jesus told them to do!

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. Matt 28:19-20

Remember, Jesus never told them to write every thing down and only a few wrote. The gospel of Matthew and John do not tell us if they are in fact the apostles of Jesus.

Now you wrote // What must we do to be born again?// Not sure if you answer that!
---Ruben on 2/15/22


The real question here to David is...What do you believe the Gospel is,?

Paul tells us very simply in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 what the Gospel is. The death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ alone are we set free from sin.

John 8:35-36 clearly say this.

This is the issue where David has departed from the faith.
---kathr4453 on 2/15/22


StrongAxe
Paul said his Gospel is built upon the Gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Now since we all know these are facts, if what Paul and John taught undermine the teachings of Jesus Christ, doesn't this prove, you may be talking their teachings out of context?

By the way, God doesn't care about the world view. He cares for those who conform to his view.
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you, and to you who are troubled, rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and who obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(2 Thessalonians 1:6-8)
---David on 2/15/22


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David:

You are under the mistaken impression kathr and I reject the teachings of Jesus. We don't. Both of us realize the Bible consists of more than just the Four Gospels. What Jesus said is true, but what Paul and John said are ALSO true. You can't just take one and ignore the others. One must build a world view in which ALL of it makes sense, not just some convenient part of it.

It's also common on these blogs (and elsewhere) for people with narrow views to say "If you don't accept what I am saying, that means you're rejecting God", which assumes that they're the only ones who know the truth 100%. Trav in particular does this. This is naive thinking, and most cults are based on that dangerous perspective.
---StrongAxe on 2/14/22


When you and Kathrine accept the teachings of Jesus Christ...then we can have a discussion. Until then..don't waste my time.
---David on 2/12/22

As I've showed, I do accept th e teachings of Jesus Christ. David however only accepts a limited distorted version of his own understanding and condemns everyone else who will not bow down to David's limited understanding.

Jesus came to set us free. He has given us all a way out of this. Roman's 6-8 show EXACTLY how Jesus sets us free from sin and death.

It's David who rejects these truths.

And now after more than 3 admonitions , David needs to be rejected as scripture tells us to do.
---kathr4453 on 2/14/22


John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

36 If the "Son" AKA JESUS CHRIST therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Notice these two verses show the Word SON with a Capital S. Verse 36 prove then these verses are talking about Jesus Christ.

Now read from verse 30. JESUS was talking to Jews who were rejecting Jesus as THE SON OF GOD who came to set us free from sin.

We don't set ourselves free by works, confession, death to sin. The SON. AKA Jesus Christ sets us free.

Now to read further on this subject please go to Galatians 4.
---kathr4453 on 2/13/22


David:

Yes, Jesus said that, but Paul says his body does what he wills not, and John says that if *WE* (written to the Church) sin, we should confess and God will forgive us. ALL of these are true.

You focus on one sentence Jesus said, while ignoring Paul and John. Doctrines must take ALL scripture into account, not just one verse.

Jesus also said anyone who follows him will never die - yet 2000 years of Christian cemetaries show NOBODY achieves that.

So what do these contradictions mean? Translation from imperfection to perfection is not instantaneous, but can take a lifetime.

I asked again: how many people do YOU know who never sin even once since their conversion?
---StrongAxe on 2/12/22


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StrongAxe
Jesus said, "Everyone sins is a servant of sin". You and Kathrine don't believe that. If you did, you would both notice the servant, someone who sins, is not saved according to Jesus in (John 8:35).

It's very difficult to discuss the Bible with people who reject the teachings of Jesus Christ. You and Kathrine are the only ones who do it. Others, like Ruben, may believe as you do, but when I present them with Jesus teaching what I have said, they don't argue against what the Lord taught.

When you and Kathrine accept the teachings of Jesus Christ...then we can have a discussion. Until then..don't waste my time.
---David on 2/12/22


Exactly Strongaxe, and after one reads Philippians 3 Paul NEVER suggested keeping the commandments AKA THE LAW OF MOSES, caused sin to die. If that were the case Paul would not have considered all dung for THE EXCELLENCE of Knowing Christ, being made conformable to His death THE HIGHER ROAD. David rejects.

Peter in 1st and 2nd Peter preach FAITH, JAMES TEACHES FAITH. JESUS TAUGHT FAITH. THE OT TAUGHT FAITH. THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH....

But we are warned. Not all men have faith. I guess those folks have to try to climb over some other way.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/22


kathr4453:

Note that Paul is speaking in the present, NOT the past. Paul, one of the foremost Christian apostles, was not saying that sin used to dwell in him in the past, but that it still dwelt within him in the present. (The difference being that now, it's an unwanted stow-away that we resist, rather than a welcome guest that we embrace.)
---StrongAxe on 2/9/22


Ruben
First let me ask you a question, before I answer another one of yours.
Paul started his ministry approximately 17 years after the Lords ascension. During those 17 years, many Christians, both Jew and gentile, were being saved.
What Salvation doctrine did they follow?
---David on 2/9/22


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"Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me"

Paul goes on and tell us how to over come it .v 25 "

I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord"


Absolutely , and just to reiterate it's THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. ITS EXACTLY GALATIANS 2:20-21.

It just can't be reiterated enough.
---kathr4453 on 2/9/22


(Romans 7:1-4), keeping the commandments is how we die to sin.


---David on 2/6/22

But Paul tells us that sin nature still dwells in us, v 17

"Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me"

Paul goes on and tell us how to over come it .v 25 "

I thank God, through Jesus Christ our Lord"

You bring up 1 Jhn 3:9 " Those who have been born of God do not sin, because God's seed ABIDES in them" Jesus reminds us in JHN chapter 15 that we have to remain in him( if you abide in me) that is why 1 JHN tells us to confess our SINS.

Did you answer your question on What must we do to be born again?
---Ruben on 2/8/22


If keeping the commandments is how one dies to a sin, then all those keeping the commandments in the OT would be sinless. But one needs to listen to Paul in Philippians 3. And Galatians 2:20-21. All these truths have to reconcile to one another .....or else one could say Paul was suffering from schizophrenia .

No one dies to sin by keeping the commandments. One dies to sin when they died with Christ.


Romans 6:8
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
---kathr4453 on 2/8/22


Ruben
No I am not saying that.
I'm saying, from my own experience, and by using Pauls analogy in (Romans 7:1-4), keeping the commandments is how we die to sin.
How?
Those who sin, are the servants of sin (John 8:34).The husband in Pauls analogy, is sin, their master. Their master, because they have not been born of God.(1 John 3:9)

Notice the term Adulteress is used in the analogy.
Why?
Because the penalty for adultery, in those days, was death.
How do we become an adulteress?
Keeping Gods commandments, when sin is your husband, makes you an adulteress. This my friend...is how we die to sin.
---David on 2/6/22


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I believe our death takes place when we are baptized into Christ's death, and we are born Again when we are raised up together with Him s new creature, just as Roman's 6 clearly shows us. Shall we continue in sin....GOD FORBID. DONT YOU KNOW.......

THERE IS NO DEATH TO SIN APART FROM JESUS CHRIST. GALATIANS 2:20-21 ALSO REITERATE.

ROMANS 8....THERE IS THEREFORE NOW NO CONDEMNATION TO THOSE WHO ARE IN CHRIST who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh.

Galatians 5 tell us AGAIN the flesh wars against the Spirit...and another way of explaining Roman's 7.

David is promoting a death WITHOUT JESUS. Notice all David's teachings go around Jesus..not THROUGH JESUS.
---kathr4453 on 2/4/22


What must we do to be Born Again? For those who have received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Jesus saidIf you want Eternal Life...Keep the commandments."(Matthew 19:17)

---David on 2/2/22

David are you saying being Born again is keeping the commandments?

How did you come to this interpretation?
---Ruben on 2/4/22


Why is that sin there?
"But sin, taking occasion through the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence, for without the law sin was dead. For I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died." (Romans 7:8-10)

That sin is there...to bring about your death. A death which must take place, before you can be born again,(1 Peter 1:23), being born of incorruptible seed.

Most of us have experienced what Paul wrote in (Romans 7: 15)..."For that which I do, I know not. For what I would do, that do I not, but what I hate, that I do", But very few of us, have experienced what he wrote in (Romans 7:8-10).
---David on 2/4/22


David:

You yourself quoted 1 John 1:9, which I have mentioned to you before. This verse says that if we confess our sins, God will forgive us. If we were incapable of sin, John would not have needed to say this. Therefore, we ARE capable of sin.

The difference is that we are not slaves to sin. We do not habitually sin. We are not perfect. God is perfecting us over time. We are a work in progress.

John 11:26 says "whoever lives by believing in me will never die", yet the abundance of Christian cemeteries over the past two millennia demonstrate that either this transformation is not complete during our lifetimes, or if it's supposed to be, then EVERY Christian in history has gotten it wrong so far.
---StrongAxe on 2/3/22


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What must we do when we sin?
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
How do we confess sin?
Use (Matthew 6:9-15) as your guide, pay special attention to (Matthew 18: 22-35).
Why must we confess sin?
(Isaiah 59:2) & ( 1 John 1: 6-8)
For the most part, the light of God keeps us from walking in the dark. Without this light, sin is much like one walking through a minefield...in the dark. The Holy Spirit points out sin so we won't trespass against God.
There is a sin in your life you can not keep.
Tomorrow...Why is that sin there?
---David on 2/3/22


Well, sinless perfection can mean being perfectly conformed to the image of Jesus > as God has predestined His children to become >

"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." (Romans 8:29)

So, does God make a child of His perfectly like Jesus, right when someone becomes a child of God?

Not Peter . . . according to Galatians 2:11-13. Not any child of God, if every child of God keeps needing correction > Hebrews 12:4-14.

But, also, we grow and mature in connection with one another in Christ's body. No member becomes totally perfect all by one's self.
---Bill on 2/2/22


David:

Yes, Jesus said to keep the commandments - but Paul said that it's impossible for men to keep the commandments, and that trying to justify yourself that way is futile, because if you break even one of them, you are guilty of breaking them all.

There are two choices here:
1) Paul was right, in which case attempting to achieve righteousness by one's own efforts is futile self-delusion, or
2) Paul was wrong, which opens up the whole can of worms of whether or not we should even include his (now erroneous) writings in scripture, or just rip them out entirely and keep only the Gospels?

Which of these two alternatives do YOU prefer?
---StrongAxe on 2/2/22


What must we do to be Born Again? For those who have received the gift of the Holy Spirit?

Jesus saidIf you want Eternal Life...Keep the commandments."(Matthew 19:17)
Which Ones you ask?
Jesus replied, You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself. (Matthew 19:18-19)
What do we gain by keeping these commandments?
Sin is like a virus, a virus that lives in us. Sin must die!! Our Obedience to God works much like an Antibiotic...an Antibiotic that kills this virus.

Tomorrow...But what shall we do when we sin?
---David on 2/2/22


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Ok David, so why have you been saying you have achieved it in your own strength...that is in your flesh?

Why have you now changed your mind?
---kathr4453 on 2/1/22


(John 8:34) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, Everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
Who is a slave to sin?
Everyone who sins
(John 8:35) Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.
What's the difference between a Son and a Slave?
(1 John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin, for His seed remains in him, and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(1 John 3:10) This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are...


Tomorrow, for those who want to know, What must we do to become a Son of God??
---David on 2/1/22


I'll go first.

NO. we will be sinless in the new heaven and earth. At that time we will have been glorified together with Jesus. We then will be changed in the twinkling of an eye, and be like Him, as John also tells us in 1st John. Then we will be sinless, but not by our own achievements either.

There has only been ONE without sin, and that is Jesus Christ. Because HE was without sin, could take our sin.

No humans are fully God and fully man nor can we achieve such status.

Heaven will be without sin.
---kathr4453 on 1/31/22


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