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Living In The End Times

Where is God? Covid 19, The war in Ukraine, Earthquakes in California, and so on. Are these the end times or is God indifferent?

Moderator - Yes we are living right before the Rapture occurs any day now. Watch Russia in the areas of Syria, Iran, Libya and Iraq. They are getting ready to invade.

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 ---Timothy on 3/6/22
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Just wondering why America and what goes on here is the determinating factor of when God decides its time for His return. Matthew 24-25, Zechariah 12-14 has nothing to do with America.

Interesting some folks think everything revolves around America. I hate to disappoint, but there was no mention of AMERICA when Revelation was written. America or even a hint of an America is nowhere in scripture. Also there are no prophetic scriptures that God canceled His promises to the Nation of Israel and gave it to a Gentile nation( AMERICA).

The gospel of AMERICA is a false Gospel. Christians all around the world are not told to LOOK TO AMERICA FOR SIGNS OF END TIMES PROPHECY.
---kathr4453 on 5/16/22


Things have never been so bad as they are under the current illegitimate regime in America. The immorality has increased to the level "as in the days of Noah [or] Lot.
---jerry6593 on 5/16/22

Amen.
Not to the illegitimates wolves that wear sheep coats. They approve, defend, support all thats going on. They cant use scripture unless they see they are losing their disguise. Even their scripture finds them adding explanations, discourses and weak opinions. Their little dull hatchets are useless against scripture written in stone. They run and no one is chasing them.
Psa 38:20They also that render evil for good are mine adversaries, because I follow the thing that good is.
---Trav on 5/16/22


Yes, these are the end times. It won't be long until Jesus returns to resurrect the dead and take his children to heaven with Him. Things have never been so bad as they are under the current illegitimate regime in America. The immorality has increased to the level "as in the days of Noah [or] Lot."

But the 2nd coming will NOT be secret. Every eye will see Him, it will be like lightening from one end of heaven to the other. Jesus will give a loud shout that raises the dead who are caught up together with the living saints to meet Him in the air - no SECRET there!
---jerry6593 on 5/16/22


Trav:

You should read the WHOLE book, and not just a few convenient proof texts. That way, you would understand the WHOLE gospel message, not just the tiny fragment that you're constantly obsessively fixated on:

Matthew 16: 15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Note that this commanded the apostles to preach the gospel to *ALL* creatures - NOT just Israel, but *ALL*. Also, it said that *WHOEVER BELIEVES* will be saved - not just Israel.

I find it sad that most of the people on this site just sit back silently and don't weigh in on this issue.
---StrongAxe on 5/16/22


According to Trav, Jesus was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Trav definition of the Lost sheep of the house of Israel are only certain tribes of Israel, seeing he believes in the two house theory. Trav also believes the house of Israel are Gentiles.

This is problematic, seeing Jesus said DO NOT GO TO THE GENTILES, but only to the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Now what about the other HOUSE. Trav says Judah, Benjamin etc are NOT the House of Israel, but the House of Judah.

And do we see Jesus asking for identification as to what tribe any belong to first before seeking them out? No Judah, Levite or Benjamin were sought out?
---kathr4453 on 5/16/22




Some peoples GOD changes, the GOD of Jacob Israel never has. Even put it in writing
Mal 3:6For I am the LORD, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Zec 8:13it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel, so will I save you, ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong.

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Luk 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
---Trav on 5/15/22


Even if one believes the Bible was written by Jews/ Israel, not all things written are exclusively about Israel. Take Nineveh for example. This shows God's grace and kindness towards HEATHANS who were not Jews or Israel.

And what's interesting, Jesus makes a comment that one day Nineveh will rise up and condemn Israel...Matthew 12:41.

Nineveh repented. Those not even Jews or Israel repented.

So why was Jonah sent to the heathen in the OT?

Because Israel was to be a LIGHT TO ALL NATIONS OF THIS WORLD.
---kathr4453 on 5/15/22


Trav:

No, the Bible was not ALL written by Israel. Most was, but Luke was a GREEK physician, and he wrote Luke and Acts.

No, the Bible was NOT all written about Israel. Most was, but the Gospel was written for ALL NATIONS, and Jesus sent his disciples to preach it to the Jews first, and ALSO to the Greeks and other nations.

You keep talking about "distaste". Who here is distasteful? Be specific. I'm not - I've repeatedly said I agree with the scriptures you post. You're just conjuring up conflict in your own mind, because you can't seem to abide a conversation where you're not accusing someone of disagreeing with you.
---StrongAxe on 5/12/22


Imposters reveal themselves by their distaste for any mention of Israel or sheep. Thank GOD for his confirming words of for ever and everlasting. ////

This is a total lie. I dont know anyone who has a distaste for scripture referring to Israel. But there are certain cults who continually show a distaste for any scripture referring to Gentile, Greek, Heathen , much like the Mormons use these terms as a derogatory insult towards those who are not Mormon, seeing they too consider themselves Israel.

God has concluded ALL under sin, and ALL need to repent regardless of your DNA.

And once you have repented and are saved you are no longer a Jew or Israel or Gentile, bond or free, male or female, but A NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST.
---kathr4453 on 5/12/22


Sheep of Israel. In a book written by Israel, about Israel and to Israel their scriptures will unify beginning to end.

Imposters reveal themselves by their distaste for any mention of Israel or sheep. Thank GOD for his confirming words of for ever and everlasting. Add also the word only.
2Sa 7:24 For thou hast confirmed to thyself thy people Israel to be a people unto thee for ever: and thou, LORD, art become their God.
Isa 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Heb 8:8
Deu 10:15 Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day
---Trav on 5/11/22




God created the world, it's us humans that have destroyed it, thinking we can do it better, but God will be making corrections soon!
---WIVV on 5/6/22


michael_e, I really appreciate your post here. I hear so many who believe in the rapture but hope it comes today. I keep praying not today Lord because there are so many lost who needs to hear.

And yes, separating the Church from the promises to the Nation of Israel is so important to understand.
---kathr4453 on 5/5/22


We are not living in the times of prophecy, but in a mystery dispensation. Therefore, we are not living in the end times.
We operate according to the mystery of Christ, doing our ministry as ambassadors and waiting for the mystery coming of the Lord to remove the church so that he can fulfill his prophecy and promises with Israel.
These are not the prophetic last days for us. Every day is a new day of opportunity to be Gods grace ambassadors in a world that has rejected him. For the sake of ministering the gospel, we should hope there are a million more days.
Our hope is in his appearing sometime in the future, unknown to us (Titus 2:13). Til then, we have work to do.
---michael_e on 5/5/22


Trav:

Yes, THE OLD TESTAMENT was written by Israel to Israel. But the New Testament is more than that. One of its authors (Luke) was a Greek, and not a Jew.

Yes, Jesus said *HE* was only sent to the House of Israel, yet *HE HIMSELF* sent his disciples to preach to *ALL NATIONS*. Your head is stuck so far back in the Old Testament that you're ignoring Jesus' direct commands.
---StrongAxe on 5/4/22


To Sheep of Israel. In a book written by Israel, about Israel and to Israel their scriptures will unify beginning to end. Can all who believe and ask be blessed. Yes. I believe. Ive asked. Ive been blessed. My cup runneth over. I look for what Christ looked for. When scripture infuriates it is. A tell.

Mat 15:24-26 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Act 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Act 13:24 ****baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

Act 13:26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.
---Trav on 5/4/22


Unfortunately many read the Bible like it's a "Confucius says" encyclopedia. One hit wonders. Yet scripture was not written this way or was it originally in chapter and verse form, where folks do read it like " Confucius says".

I dont think its worth the time arguing with those who ARE really not grounded in Scripture..ALL OF IT.

Many love their pet verses and never grow beyond that. If many are still satisfied with 1+1=2, and think they know it all...just smile and walk away.
---kathr4453 on 5/3/22


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Trav:

You really should read Matthew 25:31-46 it in its entirety. Jesus separates righteous from wicked, like sheep from goats. It's not because of right genetics (i.e. descended from Israel), being in the right church, having the right theology, or obeying the Law.

His SOLE criteria were:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

I.e. living "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."

Yet again, your criteria for salvation differs from Jesus'.
---StrongAxe on 5/1/22


Deu 27:18 Cursed be he that maketh the blind to wander out of the way. And all the people shall say, Amen.

Amen.
Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee, thy elders, and they will tell thee.
Deu 32:9 For the LORD'S portion is his people, Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
Deu 32:30 How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the LORD had shut them up?
Deu 33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the LORD, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy excellency! and thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee, and thou shalt tread upon their high places.
---Trav on 5/2/22


Trav shows scripture when THE KING, Jesus, is reigning and ruling on earth AFTER the Great Tribulation has occurred. NEWS FLASH, Jesus isn't here yet, and the 1000 year reign hasn't taken place yet.
SO TODAY, BEFORE THAT HAPPENS God is forming THE CHURCH taken out of Jew and Gentile believers, who will actually reign and rule with Christ at that time. Matthew 24-25 parallel Zechariah 12-14 hasn't happened yet.

Trav doctrine doesn't believe in the CHURCH AGE. It's the same mistake Judas made. BEWARE OF FALSE SHEEP who actually may be the goats Jesus is talking about. Seeing Trav has redefined Jews and Israel to be something not in scripture, may actually be the very ones who do persecute the REAL JEWS, just like he does here on line.
---kathr4453 on 5/1/22


Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
---Trav on 4/25/22

To the Sheep, your King and Shepherd is calling. You will hear him and all prophets will speak to your peace.
Mat 25:32before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mat 25:33he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
---Trav on 4/28/22


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Trav:

You wrote: Who would argue with prophets.

Good question. Nobody here is arguing with the prophets. NOBODY. The only arguments with the prophets are in your own imagination.

But YOU argue against the Apostles. They repeatedly said that the New Covenant is available to ALL NATIONS, not just Israel - yet you constantly deny this, and when asked why, you refuse to address the issue. Why is that? Why are you SO AFRAID that the New Covenant isn't some kind of exclusive club?

Blessings.

An empty statement, given that you spend almost every message accusing and defaming others.
---StrongAxe on 4/28/22


Gets a little frustrating when a Christian believes they are debating against me, when in reality, they are debating against the clearly written teachings of Jesus Christ.
Thanks ***brother!!
---David on 3/8/22

Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. If the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Simple logic. Seek what Christ sought. His words fulfilling all the prophet witnesses are more readily accepted. And you will readily recognize the receiver.

Who would argue with prophets.
Blessings.
---Trav on 4/28/22


Trav:

You accuse others of not doing their homework, yet you don't do your own. Yes, Jesus preached to Israel, but he later sent his disciples to preach the gospel *to all nations*. Nations are different groups that spread out from the descendants of Noah. Abraham was only one of those, and Israel was only one of the nations to come from Abraham (Ishmael was another). So MOST nations AREN'T Israel. Yet Jesus sent his disciples to preach the gospel TO THEM. The New Covenant INCLUDES THEM. How can you so blind as to not see this? I've shown you many scriptures about this, yet you refuse to discuss them, or to show why they don't apply. Again, why not?
---StrongAxe on 4/27/22


Hmmm. Some false teacher preacher hireling types dont do their homework.

Joh 4:9Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans.

Joh 4:12Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle?

Her father was Jacob. Place of residence is not necessarily family origin.
---Trav on 4/26/22


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Well THE DOOR here is Jesus Himself, not Israel.

So Trav has used a verse that says nothing about Israel, but exclusively about Jesus.

Whosoever will is not only a call of free will to Israel, but to everyone. Not all will believe on Him.

But yes one day the Nation of Israel will be restored, after 2/3 will die rejecting Jesus AT THAT TIME, and over the last 2000 years multitudes of Jews have rejected Jesus, having died in their sin. There is no second chance here. They, along will the rest of mankind will face the second death.

What we need to do is share the Gospel with the Jews , not mislead them knto thinking because they are Jewish they are automatically saved.
---kathr4453 on 4/26/22


Trav:

You keep ignoring chronology. MT 15:24 was early in Jesus' ministry. This didn't stop him from blessing people from other nations who were persistent enough - a Samaritan woman at a well, and a Roman centurion with the ill servant - who told Jesus not to come to his house, because he could just speak one word for the servant to be healed. Jesus praised his, as this man *outside Israel* had more faith than anyone *in Israel*.

Also, LATER, Jesus told his disciples to go *TO all nations* (not *IN all nations*). Jesus' mission was to preach to Israel, but those who followed him were to continue his ministry to everyone else.

Why do you keep ignoring this second part? It's literally the theme of most of the New Testament.
---StrongAxe on 4/26/22


Joh 11:5 not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
---Trav on 4/25/22


Trav:

You wrote: Posting hundreds of linking scriptures that the preachers must avoid sure stirs up and exposes the blind false ones.

Who is avoiding scriptures? I'm not. YOU ARE. I *never* said God didn't make a covenant with Israel. I repeatedly acknowledged that he did.

However, whenever anyone posts scriptures that shows God making covenants with anyone else (e.g. Egypt and Assyria, as I posted yesterday), and with ALL nations that choose to believe (as the New Testament says repeatedly), you TOTALLY IGNORE these and go back on your Israel-only rants.

Why don't you EVER address those scriptures that address other nations? Are you afraid they contradict your pet theory, and show it to be false?
---StrongAxe on 4/21/22


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I'm a teacher not a debater. Gets a little frustrating when a Christian believes they are debating against me, when in reality, they are debating against the clearly written teachings of Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the advice brother!!
---David on 3/8/22

My first sign is when prophets and Christ scriptures infuriate these debater, types. Truth is not their mission. Deception is.

Post scripture, add no interpretation they gnash their teeth. What more sign does one need?

Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
Isa 49:3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

---Trav on 4/20/22


Trav:

And who would those be, exactly? I have *NEVER* disagreed with any scripture you've posted. I've just disagreed with *YOUR* interpretation of a lot of them, because in several cases they are diametrically opposed to what Christians worldwide have been teaching for almost 200 years.

It's incredibly arrogant to assume that just because you believe a scripture means something, that YOUR interpretation is correct and everyone else who disagrees with you is an apostate and heretic. "I'm right and 99.99% of everyone else is wrong" is occasionally a sign of genius, but most of the time it's a sign of strong delusion.
---StrongAxe on 4/10/22


Well seeing David declared he really doesn't understand THE LAW OF MOSES, and is not a teacher of the Law of Moses, can't actually be a teacher of much of anything, seeing the Law is something Paul knew in and out and why Paul, being an excellent teacher could show and teach GRACE as opposed to the Law, and why the two don't mix.

To be a gifted teacher you need to understand ALL of scripture. Trav doesn't inderstand ALL scripture either and another who is not a teacher GIFTED BY GOD TO TEACH.
---kathr4453 on 4/11/22


. I'm a teacher not a debater. Gets a little frustrating when a Christian believes they are debating against me, when in reality, they are debating against the clearly written teachings of Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the advice brother!!
---David on 3/8/22

My first sign is when prophets and Christ scriptures infuriate these debater, types. Truth is not their mission. Deception is. First of themselves then others.
At times there were 400 -450 prophets against one sent by GOD.
Those that argue with GODs prophets today are as blind and deaf as the 400.
They have no fear. Neither did false prophets.
Luk 6:26Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
---Trav on 4/10/22


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Yup. Paul said if Jesus had not risen from the dead, we would all still be in our sin.

Jesus resurrection also is proof God accepted the PERFECT SACRIFICE. Now we are baptized into His death SO THAT WE TOO CAN HAVE RESURRECTION LIFE. BUT OUR RESURRECTION LIFE IS IN THE RISEN SAVIOR. WE ARE IN HIM, AND HE IS IN US. Hebrews 13:20-21 Roman's 8:11-13. Read these verses together.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


Bill:

This means that, while Jesus' death on the cross takes away our sin, his resurrection afterwards is what gives us eternal life.

Elsewhere, Paul said that if Christ be not raised, in vain we're baptized for the dead. This doesn't mean the weird extra-biblical practice that Mormons have created. It means that if Jesus had stayed dead, then we would just be getting baptized in the name of a dead man, which would be pretty useless. (See 1 Corinthians 15:12-19,29)
---StrongAxe on 3/22/22


Bill, I believe it means when we are crucified with Christ and raised up TOGETHER WITH HIM. Romans 6. Christ is now our very life as Galatians 2:20-21 state as well. CHRIST IN YOU THE HOPE OF GLORY. Colossians 1:24-27. Hebrews 2 IN BRINGING MANY SONS INTO GLORY.

The New Creature is IN CHRIST. We are HIS BODY....bone if His bone, Flesh of His Flesh. Ephesians 5-6.

Galatians 6...the only thing that matters is THE NEW CREATURE. We live NOW in THE RISEN CHRIST. THIS IS how we are saved BY HIS LIFE. The first Adam was a life giving soul. The Last Adam Jesus is a LIFE GIVING SPIRIT. 1 Cor 15.

We are also being changed right now FROM GLORY TO GLORY BY THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD. 2 Cor 3.
---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


"For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life." (Romans 5:10)

"we shall be saved by His life"

So, we hear so much about being saved by Jesus dying on the cross.

How about what God means by being "saved by His life"? What does this mean?
---Bill on 3/22/22


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Rubin, there is a scripture in Hebrews 10 I know Catholics do not understand. We are SANCTIFIED THROUGH THE BODY OF CHRIST ONCE FOR ALL.

We are COMPLETE IN HIM **Colossians 2:10*** As long as I have breath here on earth I am saved as well as continually being saved, or continually growing in Christ.

So my understanding of that verse is different than yours.

Rubin, we have different beliefs. I'm not Catholic.

---kathr4453 on 3/22/22


-kathr4453 *Rubin, I did repent and I know the day I was saved.

But scripture does not say being saved is a one time event, it is on-going!

Romans 8 :24 " For in hope WE WERE SAVED."

1 Cor 1:18 " But to us WHO ARE BEING SAVED it is the power of God."

Romans 5 10 How much more , once reconciled, WILL WE BE SAVED by his life."

WE are saved provided we persevere and keep our eyes on the prize. Salvation is a process,.

Jesus was ask " What must I do to have external life?' He did not answer with ' Just accept me once in your Heart'

There are many places in scripture that tell us how one is save, but not one says by one act of faith at a particular time!

---Ruben on 3/22/22


Rubin, I did repent and I know the day I was saved. And I know 1 Thess 5:9 addressed to Christians who are saved say WE WERE NOT APPOINTED TO GODS WRATH. Romans is addressing human history as well, including the unsaved who changed the Glory of God into glorifying man and beast. Those who seared their own conscience is not addressing christians. We've done no such thing. Glorifying the Pope,well, hummmmm... falls on your conscience...NOT mine.

There is only ONE intermediary between God and man. And that is the man Christ Jesus. Not even Peter was said to be in that position.

Maybe that is why your eyes can't see this truth.

There shall be no other God's before me. Obey this FIRST AND FORMOST, and then we'll go to step 2.
---kathr4453 on 3/21/22


Romans 2:5 By your hard and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be reveled."
---Ruben on 3/18/22

So this is you Rubin?--kath4453 on 3/19/22

Is this your way of avoiding this obvious scripture verse about wrath of God?

First, Paul is addressing Christians about what will happen if they do not charge.

Second, it says " God's righteous judgment will be reveled." , on the last day!

Third, This could be both of us if we do not change. You believe you have the ticket to Heaven in your back pocket, saying I do not need to repent, I was saved on this certain year, date , so I am good. Who really has a ' impenitent heart'?
---Ruben on 3/21/22


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Persecution has been here since Cain murdered his brother Abel. Scripture clearly says we will be persecuted. Paul, Peter etc were persecuted and murdered.

WOF is the prosperity gospel that preaches Christians don't suffer or are persecuted. However WOF is a false doctrine. Please don't judge Christianity by false Gospels.

But the WRATH OF GOD IS not persecution because you are saved. It has nothing to do with the fellowship of HIS SUFFERINGS. It's WRATH COMING FROM GOD, NOT Satan. Just as the flood was. Satan didn't inflict the flood...GOD DID. It's GODS WRATH coming on the disobedient. God didn't kill Noah and his family. WHY?
---kathr4453 on 3/20/22


The idea that the pre tribulation rapture will happen is a new doctrine that came about with Dispensationalism.

When Rome murdered thousands of Christians. They knew that Christians will be persecuted and murdered. When thousands in different times and later under Mao in China thousands were murdered. Those who had been told no tribulation. Left being Christians. All over many part of the world. Christians are persecuted. But this new fake idea on no persecutions. Shows it is wrong every day. Unchecked 2Ti 3:12

Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Do a word search of the word Persecution in the New Testament. The second coming will come in the midst of persecution.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/20/22


--kathr4453 *Ruben
,

Paul is not saying Christians will escape tribulation or even death, but those who are in Christ and who ENDURE TO THE END ARE DESTINED TO BE SAVED from "the WRATH OF GOD".

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of THOSE WHO BY THIER WICKEDNESS SUPPRESS THE TRUTH." !

--kathr4453 *Noah and his family did not go through .

Yes they did, they still in the boat for 40 days. Guess who were rapture the bad guys and Noah and his family WERE LEFT BEHIND!):

-kathr4453*THE DAY OF THE LORD, the Day of His Wrath spoken about in the OT, Matthew 24-25,


MTT 24:13 He who endures TILL THE END WILL BE SAVED."
---Ruben on 3/20/22


Rubin, SHAME SHAME ON YOU.. This is what the KJV 1 Thess 5:9 says:

King James Version
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


Why did you purposely twist 1 Thess 5:9 in your previous post? Sooooo dishonest.
---kathr4453 on 3/19/22


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Rubin, Christians will not go through the WRATH of God, AKA the 2nd half of THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Noah and his family did not go through THAT time of Gods Wrath.

Every Christian who has died and will die up until THE WRATH OF GOD, doesn't negate THEIR SALVATION.

Scripture tells us the WRATH OF GOD is AKA The time of Jacobs Trouble, THE DAY OF THE LORD, the Day of His Wrath spoken about in the OT, Matthew 24-25, ***Zechariah 14,***Romans 5:9*** Ezekiel 7:19. Zephaniah 1:15-18 Romans 2:5, Jeremiah 30:7 Jesus second coming is WITH His Saints Jude 1:14 , 1 Thess 3:13

So sometime from the Beginning of TGT to the End, the Saints will be raptured and then return WITH CHRIST at His second Coming. Zechariah 14:5
---kathr4453 on 3/19/22


Romans 2:5 By your hard and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be reveled."
---Ruben on 3/18/22

So this is you Rubin? God is storing up His WRATH for you because you have a hard and impenitent heart? Seriously Rubin? Do you want a NEW HEART? ONE where the love of God is shed abroad in your heart by the Holy Spirit? A NEW HEART that's not hardened or impenitent?

NIV puts this way...stubborn and UNREPENTANT HEART..AKA one who refuses to turn from their sin.

Is that the description of those SAVED BY GRACE TODAY? Those given NEW HEARTS? REALLY Rubin? Why are you UNREPENTANT? Why is your heart hardened? I don't understand?
---kath4453 on 3/19/22


-kathr4453 *All Christians go through Tribulation

But yet you believe Christians will be rapture before the tribulations.


-kathr4453 *. It's a manifest token WE are saved.

Jesus says " those who endured to the end will be saved

Kathy *Don't confuse the WRATH of God with hell. Thesselonians...the WRATH of God will come on those who have rejected the Gospel.

Scriptures tells us that the wrath of God is eternal punishment,

1 Thess 5:9 destined..for wrath, was not to escape but eternal salvation.

Romans 2:5 By your hard and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be reveled."
---Ruben on 3/18/22


All Christians go through Tribulation. Whether physical or spiritual called the testing of your faith. We enter the Kingdom of God (the heavenly kingdom not of this world) through much Tribulation. To overcome through powers and principalities (Satan's dominion)is Tribulation. The sufferings of Christ ARE TRIBULATION. It's a manifest token WE are saved.

However, the WRATH OF GOD IS something altogether different. GODS WRATH IS NOT poured out on His children. WHY WOULD IT BE?

Scripture is very clear the Church is saved not only for ETERNITY, BUT ALSO FROM THE WRATH TO COME. Romans 5:6-11.

Don't confuse the WRATH of God with hell. Thesselonians...the WRATH of God will come on those who have rejected the Gospel.
---kathr4453 on 3/16/22


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I believe that the church will go through tribulation. The early church had many martyrs. Even today Christians are dying all over the world. We just do not see it much in the United States.
---Samuelbb7 on 3/15/22


Ruben, THE CHURCH AKA the mystical Body of Christ is THE MYSTERY OF GOD. This we see stated in Colossians 2. Now Rev 10:7 you will see THE MYSTERY OF GOD IS COMPLETE. And we see immediately after that the 7th Trump. The 7th Trump is actually the last Trump. 1 Cor 15... So after the last Trump (of judgements) THE WRATH OF GOD begins. Now we see through out the NT THE CHURCH IS SAVED FROM THE WRATH TO COME. Peter tells us Judgement begins at the house of God. So JUDGEMENT is one thing, THE WRATH OF GOD IS ANOTHER.

So I lean more towards mid trib rapture. But that's just MY personal belief based on what the Lord has shown me,( taking MANY YEARS) not what man has taught. And until the Lord shows me differently, I'm gonna stay with that.
---kathr4453 on 3/14/22


The Catching up of THE CHURCH was not something invented in the 1800's.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/22

It was invented then, the catching up your are referring to is 1 Thess 4: 17 " Shall be caught together" . The rapture believers say that they will not go thru the tribulation, but St Paul 2 Thess 2: 34-8 says " The lawless one will be revealed and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him with his appearing and coming".

Second " For the Lord himself will descend from Heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel call, and with the trump of God." In the Gospel of Matt 24 : 30-31 Jesus uses the same language coming in a cloud of Heaven....angels and a loud trumpt call.
---Ruben on 3/13/22


So RichardC are you then an advocate for the prosperity Gospel? That's the Only way one can marry Christianity with Capitalism and say it's of God. Calvin was the first preacher of the prosperity gospel. Money and materialism equal God's love and blessings. This is OT co mingled with the NT, taking earthly blessings given to ISRAEL for obedience and applying it to AMERICA or the BOC in America ONLY,????? What about THE BOC in poor socialistic countries? Is God really a respecter of persons of His own Children based on their address,? This is not NT Church teachings. Heaven is our home, not here, and OUR RICHES ARE THE RICHES IN CHRIST JESUS.

UNFORTUNATELY the Gospel of America is all some see and believe.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/22


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kathr4453:

Yes, yet another example of selective vision:

Obama is president: "He's evil! He needs to be removed from office!"

Trump is president: "Respect the higher powers, because they're ordained by God!"

Biden is president: "He's evil! He needs to be removed from office!"
---StrongAxe on 3/11/22


40 K Lies : Can you name ten of them off the top of your head ? probably not - But MSM says so - Was not a Trump fan thought his policies were good,

Time and time again compassion is use for other to get Power, and when they do watch out ! Communist and Socialist have to confront their history, 100 - 200 murders and counting - Compassionate ?

Capitalism has taken more people out of poverty then any other system - but it not perfect !
---RichardC on 3/11/22


uben:

Then how do you interpret this passage: 1 Thessalonians 4:

StrongAxe on 3/8/22

First in order for this event to happen, the anti-christ is reveled, 2 Thessalonians 2: 8 " .Jesus said in John 6:54 " .he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the... Last Day! read also John 6:39-44.

Finally John John 11:24: Martha said to [Jesus], I know that he [Lazarus] will rise again in the resurrection at the...last day. Why does Lazarus have to wait for the last day and not when a suppose rapture ? John 12:48, Jesus says, He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings has a judge, the word that I have spoken will be his judge on the last day.
---Ruben on 3/11/22


RichardC, God puts up and takes down leaders ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE. Christians were all to eager to accept this when Trump was in office. But slanders and berates God for putting Biden today in office.

We can't see what God sees. So being two faced about this is disingenuous to say the least.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/22


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RichardC:

Yes, inequality is a fundamental rule of existence, but Christians are supposed to overcome that, not embrace it.

Jesus said "Love your neighbor as yourself", "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and "I was hungry and you fed me" - all expressions of equity. The first century church kept property in common - the ultimate expression of communism.

Republicans considered communism and the Soviet Union the ultimate evil, so they adjusted their platform in the '70s to woo the Christian right, and sold them a bill of goods that socialism and communism are evil.

Trump told over 40K lies while in office. Talk about rejecting truth!
---StrongAxe on 3/11/22


I am not a communist neither is Biden not socialist : Sander is ????????????

Bernie Sander has stated that he is a key voice in the Biden administration, Biden has state goal of his administration in equity - which is equality of out come - marxism Ideology 101

Inequality does not come from west - It is a fundamental rule of existence .

Joe Biden : We choose truth over facts - truth is what we say it is . ( I would say pretty ---------- > Orwellen )
---RichardC on 3/10/22


I believe we can find in scripture certain things must take place FIRST before Jesus comes again. This is spelled out in 1 and 2 Peter, 1 and 2 Thesselonians, Revelation, and even in the OT.....Zechariah 12-14 for instance. Among other places in the OT about the TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD. AKA Jacob's Trouble etc.

But we have many false teachers who have explained away these scriptures.

The Catching up of THE CHURCH was not something invented in the 1800's. It was known from the beginning of the church age, but that along with THE GOSPEL OF GRACE was almost smothered when the RCC controlled religion for centuries.
---kathr4453 on 3/11/22


..... Now the feckless Biden and his team are destroying the entire world. I thought you Communist hippie types were against war, but they seem intent on starting WW3.


---jerry6593 on 3/8/22

That's the most ignorant statement I've ever heard. 40 GOP SENATORS THURSDAY are for sending fighter planes to Poland ....so it appears the GOP are incouraging WWIII.

GEE WIZZ JERRY, you forgot to blame Hillary too. Are you losing touch with your own reality?
---kathr4453 on 3/11/22


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JS1234:

Exactly right. Isaac Asimov once wrote "Jesus said 'I come quickly', but 2000 years later, we're still waiting." What he missed is Jesus said "I come quickly", NOT "I come soon". If lightning strikes a century from now, it will not be soon, but when it does come, it will be quick. Jesus said his coming will be like lightning - visible across the whole sky. Very quick indeed!

Many people (e.g. JWs and SDAs) think he has come already, and come invisibly - but this is indirect contradiction with Jesus who said when he comes EVERY eye would see him - like lightning.
---StrongAxe on 3/10/22


The End Times started right after Jesus rose from the dead. We have been living in them for the last two thousand years.
---JS1234 on 3/10/22


1 Thessalonians 4:17 - The Word ( caught up ) in Greek is Harpazo The Greek. was translated to Latin: In Latin the word Harpazo is Raptus - Out of this word English speaking people start to call Raptus - Rapture - and it stuck
---RichardC on 3/9/22


Jerry, the second coming IS NOT THE RAPTURE. The rapture is when the BOC meets Christ in the air. The second coming is when EVERY EYE WILL SEE and Jesus will be here on earth.

When Jesus comes at the 2nd coming the 1000 year reign will begin, with Jesus Christ HERE ON EARTH.

And what does communism have to do with that?

You dont have to believe in the rapture AKA TRANSLATION OF THE CHURCH. Just because you were taught it doesn't exist doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I thought you had your rapture back in the 1800's? What happened?
---kathr4453 on 3/9/22


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jerry6593:

For the umpteenth time: I AM NOT A COMMUNIST. Neither is Biden. Not even socialist - Sanders is.

Don't you get tired of constant lies?

Putin (who now lives in the resurrected corpse of literally the first Communist country ever) is the one invading Ukraine. He is the one readying a nuclear arsenal. Yet you blame BIDEN for this? You really need to clean your glasses.

Also remember, Trump threatened North Korea with "fire and destruction like the world has never seen". The world HAS seen WW2, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki, and he threatened WORSE. I didn't hear you complaining THEN. Open your eyes.

Also "our" means "many people". MORE Americans chose Biden than Trump.
---StrongAxe on 3/9/22


ax: Congrats on answering with scripture. The Second Coming of Jesus is the ONLY rapture mentioned in scripture. And, it is anything but secret, since "every eye will see Him" and it comes with a "shout".

Did you notice the line that says "the dead in Christ shall rise first"? How does that comport with the popular belief that they are currently in heaven?


---jerry6593 on 3/9/22


Ruben:

Then how do you interpret this passage: 1 Thessalonians 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
---StrongAxe on 3/8/22


What's going on is a wake_up call. Because once the rapture comes......it's going to be 1000 times worse.
---kathr4453 on 3/7/22

There is no rapture, that is a false doctrine that came in the 1800-1900.
---Ruben on 3/8/22


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Really good take on this David. Appreciate you sharing it. Kinda like parables. They were never intended to be understood by all...Trav

Trav
Good to know someone else understands it. On occasion I try to share the hidden Gems. Don't know if you noticed, but I took your advice on the other blog. I'm a teacher not a debater. Gets a little frustrating when a Christian believes they are debating against me, when in reality, they are debating against the clearly written teachings of Jesus Christ.
Thanks for the advice brother!!
---David on 3/8/22


1 Thessalonians 5:2 - For yourself know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

1 Thessalonians 5:3 - For when they say peace and safety: Then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as a travail upon a women with child: and they shall not escape.

1 Thessalonians 5:4 - But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, That that day day should overtake you as a thief .
---RichardC on 3/7/22


"Where is God?"

Jesus has guaranteed these things will happen. So, God is in the know and working His perfect plan, every moment. But how are we taking it! Where does our attention belong??

"'Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near.'" (Luke 21:28)

"'See that you are not troubled, for all these things must come to pass" (in Matthew 24:6)
---Bill on 3/7/22


Have you ever seen a time when people were more in love with themselves, than we see in this generation?

(2 Timothy 3:1-5)
This know also: in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,,....
---David on 3/6/22

Really good take on this David. Appreciate you sharing it.
Kinda like parables. They were never intended to be understood by all.

Mar 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:


Mat 16:2-3 ***O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky, but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
---Trav on 3/7/22


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Yes David, it's called Narcissism. And interestingly we have something today past generations didn't have...social media with LOOK AT ME, SEE WHAT I JUST BOUGHT, LOOK AND LIKE MY PICTURE OF MY FABULOUS VACATION ..ETC.

Then people are measured by likes and followers. Unfriendly those who don't LIKE every post...

All the while Satan has devised a way to get folks to focus on themselves 24/7.

What's going on is a wake_up call. Because once the rapture comes......it's going to be 1000 times worse.
---kathr4453 on 3/7/22


Have you ever seen a time when people were more in love with themselves, than we see in this generation?
When we look back in History, we have had wars, earthquakes and many other signs of the end times. But one sign I don't see, is a time when we had a generation of people so in love with themselves.

(2 Timothy 3:1-5)
This know also: in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, without selfcontrol, fierce, despisers of those who are good, traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God,....
---David on 3/6/22


People have been expecting Jesus' imminent return for 2000 years. Many thought Luke 9:27 meant the Second Coming would happen within their lifetimes.

Many thought he would return in 1000, and again before 2000, and still continue. SDA and JW came from Millerites who believed he would return in 1834. Dozens of books in the '80s-'90s like "88 reasons Jesus will return in 1988". Harold Camping in 2011. All wrong.

All "any day now" talk does is cause disappointment and cynicism when "the day" doesn't arrive - so people ignore the signs when it DOES arrive. Jesus never told us to count the days. He told us to be busy at our work when he returns.
---StrongAxe on 3/6/22


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