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Pentecostal Church Our Model

Is the Pentecostal Church our model today?

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 ---michael_e on 5/12/22
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Cherry picking verses out of Ezekiel 36 doesn't prove the earthly kingdom reign had begun. A careful reading of Ezekiel 36 would be seeing the whole chapter fulfilled, as it is steeped in prophecy concerning many things that were not dependent on man, as you read , there is no "IF YOU WILL, THEN I WILL" . NO, it's exclusively God saying many times "I WILL, I WILL, I WILL. "

Yet Hyper-dispensationalists insist God had to call of the earthly kingdom, leaving all these first century Jews hanging in limbo excluding them from the BOC .....all because Israel ,AS A WHOLE failed to cooperate, and God had to go to plan B, giving Paul a new Gospel of salvation that accompanied the Holy Spirit for other Jews. Nonsense!
---kathr4453 on 5/21/22


Unfortunately, seek signs for their own sake. This can lead to charismania, which Paul addressed.

One pastor taught "how to speak in tongues" - say "I love you Jesus" quickly over and over again until you speak in tongues. This is rubbish - it replaces the indwelling of the Spirit by psychological delusion.

I was once in a Pentecostal church that had authentic gifts, but one new believer insisted on praying over everyone. He laid hands on their heads and actively pushed them forward, which would make them fall over. Not by the Power of the Spirit, but by the power of physics. What he thought was a spiritual gift was imitation.
---StrongAxe on 5/22/22


Michael_e, I see you're quoting word for word from Grace Ambassadors web site, again, a hyper- dispensational web site. When doing so, it's important to state this when posting.

I don't think anyone here is interested in being brainwashed, or hoodwinked into joining this false doctrine seeing it clearly is just some's OPINION. What most here are interested in, is having a discussion with the person posting, not being bombarded with someone else's words, as they already have and are established in their own faith.

When one cannot use and defend with their own words, that's a red flag for me.

Everyone can pull up online multitudes of Hyper dispensationalist websites and see hundreds refuting this false doctrine.
---kath4453 on 5/22/22


The spirit-filled fervency and single mindedness of the disciples at Pentecost should be understood that they were supernaturally caused to live in such a manner by the contract of the New Covenant (Ezekiel 36:24-27)
Overnight these followers of the Messiah were transformed through the new spirit and new heart placed within them to perform as those worthy of entering the kingdom.
As this natural result was expected from every true participant of the New Covenant law, there were consequences for those who didn't produce such fruit. Heb 6:4-6)
---michael_e on 5/21/22


Some would like the supernatural power manifested to the Jewish believers in Acts 2. While there seems to be nothing wrong with a desire to know God and experience his life-changing love, following the wrong example can lead to doctrinal error and false emotionalism.
The empowerment of Pentecost was a prophesied result of the institution of the New Covenant made with Israel
---michael_e on 5/21/22




Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.


Actually no the jews who came every year to pentecost was a yearly activity. It was not some special moment for the Kingdom restored to Israel to begin. Jesus made that clear in Acts 1:6-7.

ALSO how exactly was this Kingdom restored to Israel to begin seeing they rejected Jesus as Lord AND KING. If the Kingdom was to begin then Jesus would have shown Himself to ALL just as Zechariah 12-14 states. When Jesus returns to restore the Kingdom, they will see Him and His wounds, and they will mourn. We see that didn't happen in Acts.
---kathr4453 on 5/20/22


As we see here, Pentecost was an annual thing even AFTER Acts 1, where Jews gathered on that day, as they had since the beginning of the Law. So obviously it wasn't thinking the Kingdom had come. Seeing in Acts 20, Paul after he started the supposed NEW AND DIFFERENT CHURCH , went to. Wonder what they were waiting for?
Acts 20:16
For Paul had determined to sail by Ephesus, because he would not spend the time in Asia: for he hasted, if it were possible for him, to be at Jerusalem the day of Pentecost.

1 Corinthians 16:8
But I will tarry at Ephesus until Pentecost.
---kath4453 on 5/20/22


Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 2:47 does not say "added into them". It says THE LORD ADDED TO THE CHURCH. There is no scriptures to support the Lord is adding anyone to the KINGDOM COME ON EARTH scenario. ONE should rightly divide wording here. Plus Jesus would be reigning on earth if that were so.


WE also see in acts 20 Paul shows Pentecost didn't end in Acts 1 with Jews. This would be several years after this supposed Kingdom Come had come....proving hyper -dispensationslism makes no sense. We're they STILL waiting for the earthly kingdom reign?
---kathr4453 on 5/20/22


Acts 2 can be confusing for Bible students who do not rightly divide. When we rightly divide, the supernatural events at Pentecost become a clear fulfillment of Gods prophetic purpose to Israel.
The prophetic foretelling and purpose of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit tells us what was happening in Acts 2 WASN'T
A random supernatural response to extreme faith
The beginning of the church the BoC
Something that can be repeated in this dispensation
---michael_e on 5/21/22


First, it's necessary to point out that an established group was already waiting in Jerusalem at Pentecost for the next step in their desire to enter the kingdom of God. Acts 2:41 states that on the day of the Spirit-filled preaching by Peter there were ADDED UNTO THEM about three thousand souls. Therefore, Acts 2 doesn't describe the origin of a church, but simply the addition to an existing group that consisted of at least one hundred and twenty (Acts 1:15).
---michael_e on 5/19/22




When rightly dividing the word of truth, we see the Holy Spirit was promised to ALL FAMILIES... re Gentiles too. This is explained in Galatians.

And we see both Jew and Gentile given the Holy Spirit. As a matter of fact, Paul asked a group, "have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed"?. Interestingly these were Jews who said, " we have not heard of any Holy Spirit".

Question, Was Paul guilty of preaching two different Holy Spirits? And if this same Holy Spirit indwelt all believers re Cornelius, where does scripture clearly state these are two entirely different churches.

However Ephesians clearly show that middle wall was taken down, MAKING ONE NEW MAN IN CHRIST AKA THE CHURCH..
---kathr4453 on 5/19/22


When we rightly divide, the events at Pentecost become a fulfillment of Gods prophetic purpose to Israel. The prophetic foretelling and purpose of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit indicates that what was happening in Acts 2 wasn't a random supernatural response to extreme faith
wasn't the beginning of the church the BoC, and wasn't something that can be repeated in this dispensation.
---michael_e on 5/18/22


If receiving the Holy Spirit , which began the Church AGE, is not the Church today, my question is, 1) do hyper-dispensationslists believe ANOTHER SPIRIT is forming the Church, 2) do hyper-dispensationalists reject the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as evidence of salvation, 3) did Paul preach ANOTHER HOLY SPIRIT? when?

Or do hyper-didpensationalists believe the Holy Spirit is divided?

When God established THE CHURCH in Acts 2, and gave miracles as signs and wonders to the Apostles PROVING the Church age began then, as Hebrews 1-2 clearly explain, is it the Hyper-dispensationalists today who are void of the Holy Spirit?
---kathr4453 on 5/19/22


"Test all things, hold fast what is good." (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

There are false people involved in what they call Pentecostal. So, no we should not assume any and all Pentecostal activity is our model.

I have been with various Pentecostal people and groups. Not all are alike, plus the Bible has given me so much more than a lot of Pentecostal and non-Pentecostal people have given me and told me.

But I would say I have known certain people who have been examples of how I need to become and to love.
---Bill on 5/18/22


In order to believe the Pentecostal church of Acts 2 is our model today, one must understand exactly happened the day of Pentecost
---michael_e on 5/17/22


Another toxic behavior many Christians fall prey to (but Pentecostals are particularly vulnerable to) is Pharisaism: the "gospel" of "name it and blame it".

Whenever something bad happens, many judge and assign blame. When Katrina hit New Orleans, Pat Robertson blamed festivals like Mardi Gras and Southern Decadence - which take place in the French Quarter, the area damaged the *least*. So either God has very poor aim, or Pat was totally wrong.

When someone has cancer or financial problems that God doesn't fix, Pharisees self-righteously judge "it MUST be because of some unconfessed sin in your life" instead of comforting the victims.

Jesus told us to forgive and comfort, not to judge and blame.
---StrongAxe on 5/16/22


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One errors that came out of Pentecostalism is the Prosperity Gospel. "Name it and claim it" - if you believe, God is a Cosmic Genie who gives you anything you ask.

Funny how when normal people need money, they are told to pray, while when rich televangelists need money, instead of praying, prey on viewers, asking them for cash (and guilting them if they don't send it).

Paula White was the "spiritual advisor" to our former president. She said anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan. Jesus told his followers to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow him. You can draw your own conclusion as to whom SHE follows.
---StrongAxe on 5/15/22


I guess if all they watched is Christian Satellite channels.???No they are not my model.

Curious why someone would think they are our model today? Who is "OUR"? "Our" as in America? The Gospel of the heavenly LOTTO? That may be the gospel of apostate America, but not true Christ centered, cross centered Christians. They have the OPPOSITE MESSAGE of Christianity. But maybe with so many false politicians who have no shame in lying, it runs hand in hand with false churches. Listen, if we can't discern truth from lies in our politicians, why would these same folks be able to discern truth from lies from the pulpit?

The anti_Christ will be the biggest liar of all and MULTITUDES will believe and follow.
---kathr4453 on 5/14/22


Pentecostals recovered one piece of the Gospel lost over the centuries, but they are far from perfect. They are still vulnerable to the same errors present in the early church:

Thinking gifts are a divine sign of approval, e.g. "I speak in tongues and you don't - so I'm better than you" - toxic elitism.

"Charismania" - putting experience over doctrine, resulting in chaos (Galatians 1:8). Robert Tilton can't complete a sentence without lapsing into tongues, despite "the spirits of the prophets *are subject to the prophets*". I've seen some Pentecostal churches where things were in order, but some where they weren't.
---StrongAxe on 5/12/22


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