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Is Jesus Coming Back Soon

Do you think that Jesus is coming back soon?

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 ---jerry6593 on 7/16/22
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To be picky, Matthew 17 said "they appeared", not WHERE they appeared from. Both Moses and Elijah appeared here, even though Elijah was taken into heaven directly while still alive, while Moses died first.

The fact remains that 2 Kings 2:11 said Elijah "went up by a whirlwind into heaven", while John 3:13 says "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

So one of three things must be true:
1) One of these two verses is incorrect
2) Elijah wasn't a man, so the second verse doesn't apply to him
3) Elijah WAS the Son of Man, so it does
None of these conclusions are appealing, but I can't see a fourth option.
---StrongAxe on 8/13/22

ax: Once again, the answer lies in first assuming that the Bible does not contradict itself, and God cannot lie. So we have to look deeper.

Consider the hint in the book of Jude:

Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

and, again on the mount of transfiguration:

Mat 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.

These were real, physical people talking with them, not some ethereal spooks.

---jerry6593 on 8/13/22


Deuteronomy 34:5-6:
So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the Lord.
And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.

So Moses was NOT assumed into heaven.

2 Kings 2:11
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder, and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

John 3:13 directly contradicts this. What a conundrum!
---StrongAxe on 8/9/22

Jerry, this is where I get this stuff.

John 3:12-13

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/22

Jerry, you will not find any scripture where humans were taken up into the Holy of Holies,THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM before Jesus death and resurrection.

But I absolutely agree these did not experience SOUL SLEEP..THANK YOU. Hebrews 12: 22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
---kathr4453 on 8/8/22

Kat: "Nothing entered Heaven until Jesus died and rose again."

How about Enoch, Moses and Elijah?

You really need to stop writing your own bible!

---jerry6593 on 8/8/22

The Paradise of God spoken in Revelation, is something different than Paradise that Paul was carried up to he called the 3rd heaven. The Paradise of God seems to be talking about the Garden of Eden with the tree of life that was closed off after Adam and Eve's sin. And I believe that verse is pointing to the new heaven and earth after this one passes away.

Today you will be with me in Paradise was where the righteous dead went, AKA ABRAHAMS BOSOM , before Jesus resurrection. OT Saints did not go to some spiritual Garden of Eden. We see after Jesus resurrection, in Hebrews 12, they are called the spirits of just men made perfect in heaven now with God, Jesus, the Angels AND CHURCH OF THE FIRST BORN.....that would be us today.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/22

What I find interesting is Jerry's last post was on SATURDAY. Okok, he may have posted after sundown on Saturday, but WOW, did Jerry REALLY REST here, did he pull up CN while under the Sabbath REST, waiting for the sun to go down before posting. It seems that having that REST didn't push away all worldly thoughts and activities with a renewed mind. It looked like Jerry just couldn't wait till the sun went down to immediately post....that showed up SATURDAY.
---kathr4453 on 8/7/22

Rev 2:7 ... "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Moved long before the resurrection.///

Where does the verse say it was moved long before the resurrection? Nothing entered Heaven until Jesus died and rose again. He entered FIRST, through His own blood.

Unless you're saying Revelation was written before Jesus death and resurrection.????Then I would ask you....where do you get YOUR stuff?
---kathr4453 on 8/6/22

kat: "What Jerry and Friends fail to understand is before Jesus death and resurrection PARADISE was known as this place with a great divide" "Paradise was moved to heaven at Jesus resurrection."

Rev 2:7 ... "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Moved long before the resurrection.

Where do you get this stuff? Were you around before Jesus?

---jerry6593 on 8/6/22


You wrote: Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

That is a reasonable explanation.

On the other hand, there is still nothing in scripture that would explain why Jesus would be sitting idly somewhere for 1800 years, and only then enter the heavenly sanctuary, and spend 200+ years reading through books before rendering a final judgment.

It's inconsistent on its face - because for every day he spends reading, more pages are added to the books, which he would then need to read, ad infinitum, and he would never finish.
---StrongAxe on 8/4/22

What Jerry and Friends fail to understand is before Jesus death and resurrection PARADISE was known as this place with a great divide where we see in Luke where Abrahan is on the higher ground, and a great gulf between with those waiting for judgement. This was not where the Father's thrown was at that time, as Jesus was the very first to enter HEAVEN, before all the OT RIGHTEOUS could. When He ascended into Heaven He led and set the captives free ..the righteous. It's all there in Hebrews 11 and 12. These ot saints are said to be the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT. Their perfection came with Jesus resurrection. Paradise was moved to heaven at Jesus resurrection. So the thief died snd went to Abraham's Bosom AKA paradise.
---kathr4453 on 8/4/22

ax: "Since you don't seem to like my interpretation of that, how do YOU interpret it?"

Simple. Begin by assuming that there does exist a logical explanation - one that does not make Christ a liar. Here it is: The original Greek has no punctuation, and the comma was invented centuries after Christ. Try moving the comma before the word "today" rather than after it, and you get:

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee Today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.

Strange how doctrines can change because of simple errors, eh? (A little Canadian lingo there.)

---jerry6593 on 8/4/22


I literally just quoted Jesus. I don't see how you can possibly spin that into "calling him a liar".

Since you don't seem to like my interpretation of that, how do YOU interpret it?
---StrongAxe on 8/3/22

ax: "Today you will be with me in paradise"

So you are calling Jesus a liar!

Was He lying when He said that or when He said to Mary 2 days later:

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not, for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.

Perhaps your interpretation is off.

---jerry6593 on 8/3/22


Jesus also told the repenting thief on the cross "Today you will be with me in paradise", not "2000 years later, after I've read through the books". Was that a parable too?

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Do you hear Moses and the prophets?

In Hebrew, the word QARA means both to read and to proclaim. This is because reading was done out loud. Peasants were generally illiterate. They didn't read scriptures for themselves, but heard them read out loud in the synagogues. And today, we hear them being preached from church pulpits. So, yes.
---StrongAxe on 8/2/22

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ax: "So how does one reconcile these two things?"

Easy. The story of the rich man and Lazarus is a parable. Nothing in it is realistic: All saved humans fit on Abraham's chest, Lazarus' thirst is satisfied by one drop, Heaven and Hell are close enough to reach across, etc.

You miss the entire point of the story, namely:

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Do you hear Moses and the prophets?

---jerry6593 on 8/1/22

Jerry, those facing the Great White Throne Judgement are facing THE SECOND DEATH.

Wouldn't that mean there was a first death? Strongaxe pointed out those in Luke after facing their first death were in a place called hades, shoel. There was a great divide between Abraham's Bosom and hades, before Jesus death and resurrection. The righteous dead went to Abraham's Bosom and will be part of the first resurrection. Those others will be brought forward at the GWTJudgement to face THE SECOND DEATH.

Those who are OF FAITH ARE BLESSED WITH FAITHFUL ABRAHAM. You see, the law was added 430 years after Abraham, but never annulled the promises given to Abraham and his seed. Re those whose faith is was and has slways been in Jesus Christ
---kathr4453 on 7/28/22

Jerry, seeing I have been born again, through Jesus Christ, a gift offered to you as well are part of the first resurrection. We've already died with Christ. Our old man has been crucified with Him, and we are raised up RIGHT NOW AS WE SPEAK, A NEW CREATURE.

Those who have not are not Christ's, clearly stated in Galatians 5:22-25. Philippians 3.

So to your second question, those unsaved will be raised up to go to the great white Throne judgement. Then death will be thrown into the lake of fire, which is HELL.

Christians are judged at the judgement seat of Christ. A totally different place and time.
---kathr4453 on 7/27/22


But notice Jesus' parable of the rich man and Lazarus. Both the rich man and the beggar Lazarus died. Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom. The rich man went to hell - where he asked Abraham to send Lazarus over with a drink of water. This was not set in some future time, thousands of years in the future, after books were open, and there was a trial. This was set in the past.

So how does one reconcile these two things?
---StrongAxe on 7/27/22

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kat: Since you mentioned the two resurrections, how do you think that the determination as to which resurrection you are in is made? A judgement is made!

Did you also note that "the rest of the dead" (wicked) do not live again until the 1000 years have ended? So no one currently goes to hell at death!

It is wrong to punish people before they have had a trial!
---jerry6593 on 7/27/22

There will be many new understandings now in the age of eternity because ETERNAL God will teach us TRUTH that has been hidden for 2,000 years.

The commandments were abolished, and destroyed along with the devil.

Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace
---more_excellent_way on 7/25/22

Actually the final judgement will be those who rejected Jesus Christ. People can try to obey the 10 commandments and still not believe in Jesus Christ. Just look at the pharisees.

And the LAW AKA the 10 commandments were added so SIN WOULD ABOUND.**Romans 5 **Therefore no one can or has ever kept the 10 commandments. James says if you've broken 1 you have broken all.

Where sin abounds GRACE MUCH MORE ABOUNDS. Romans 5

PLEASE REREAD ROMANS 5 for those who think they are going to pass the smell test of the Law.
---kathr4453 on 7/25/22


The Bible's timeline:
1) People stand before God
2) Judgment is declared
3) The books are opened

The SDA timeline:
1) Jesus goes into a private sanctuary
2) He opens the books
3) He spends 200+ years slowly reading them
4) He declares judgment
5) People stand before him
---StrongAxe on 7/24/22

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Jerry, if you are part of the first resurrection, you are not part of THE DEAD ,who are judged at the great white thrown. That's a judgement for the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
---kathr4453 on 7/23/22

CHRIST already returned to me and His Spirit is within....

Eph 3:16 that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with might through his Spirit in the inner man,
---more_excellent_way on 7/23/22

ax: "Nothing in scripture says Jesus needs centuries to pore [sic] over books."

Dan 7:10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

ax, There is a judgement coming, and we will all be judged according to the standard of the Ten Commandments. Better get ready!

---jerry6593 on 7/23/22

Based on Matthew 24:42 no one knows when Christ will return. We are told we just have to be ready.
---WIVV on 7/22/22

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Nothing in scripture says Jesus needs centuries to pore over books. Investigative Judgment is a rationalization to explain why Jesus didn't physically return in 1844.

I'm not obsessed with comic books. "Retcon" is used in many areas when people rationalize retroactively changing canon. It happens in movies when a sequel does not logically follow the original. Soap operas bring back dead characters, sometimes with explanations, sometimes not. Dallas accommodated Patrick Duffy's return by saying Bobby Ewing's death and the whole subsequent year were just a dream. Newhart one-upped that by saying the entire series was a bad pizza dream of his character in his previous show.
---StrongAxe on 7/22/22

ax: Your history is a bit off. People of many denominations were Millerites. Indeed, Miller himself was a Baptist and the Harmon family (Ellen White's maiden name) were Methodists. But your statement that "SDA retconned this by saying Jesus DID return - to the heavenly sanctuary." is wrong! Since Jesus was already in heaven, He couldn't possibly return there! The date computation is correct, October 22, 1844, but they got the event wrong. The "cleansing of the Sanctuary" referred to the Heavenly Sanctuary and the date was the beginning of the investigative Judgement - not the coming of Jesus to earth.

Does your fascination with the word "retcon" stem from your obsession comic books? Just askin'.
---jerry6593 on 7/22/22


JW and SDA came from Millerites, who believed Jesus would return in 1843-1844.

JW repeatedly retconned this, every time claiming "new light", repudiating previous false claims, and making new ones.

SDA retconned this by saying Jesus DID return - to the heavenly sanctuary, and ever since is involved in "Investigative Judgment", examining books in heaven, to see who is worthy. (This could never end, as every year spent reading old books, new ones are written).

You are literally date-setting 2027. Who said the world was created in 3972 BC, or Abraham+Isaac was 1972 BC? The bible never says 2000 year periods are significant. More mathemagical handwaving.
---StrongAxe on 7/20/22

I agree that Camping, et al were looney for predicting the date of Jesus return when Jesus clearly says that "no man knoweth the day or the hour". SDA's have never believed in date setting. However, Jesus did describe the signs of the times when the end was near, and they have never fit so well with the times as currently.

He also never forbid the predicting of the year. It is tempting to observe that, in keeping with the God's "a day is as a thousand years" principle, the promise of a redeemer slain from the foundation of the earth reaches the 6000 year point in the fall of 2027, with 2000 year markers at the attempted slaying of Isaac by Abraham and the anointing of Jesus at his baptism (AD27).

---jerry6593 on 7/20/22

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Jesus said "behold, I come quickly", not "behold, I come soon". Christians have been predicting his imminent return for almost 2000 years. Apostles believed he would return within their lifetimes. There was a huge surges just before 1000 and 2000 AD. Miller in 1833/1834 (that evolved into SDA and JW). Books like "88 reasons why Jesus will return in 1988". Harold Camping in 2012. All such failed predictions do is encourage skepticism about prophecy.

Jesus didn't tell us to predict the day of his return. He himself didn't know the day or the hour. He told us to be busy at our work so that when he DOES return (surprisingly, like a thief in the night), he would find us doing what we were supposed to be doing.
---StrongAxe on 7/16/22

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