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Finish Here January 2018
  
AXE. Again you contradict yourself.
You claim Matt 25 & 10 speak of NON Christians who are saved SOLELY by works, NOT faith.
And when I confront you about your doctrine which contradicts the gospel, you then contradict yourself with your strained mental gymnastics on Matt 25 & 10.

And please...if your routine of deflection, obfuscation, and victim narrative wasn't bad enough, you now even resort to boasting about how many likes you have on CN compared to me. Considering that my time on CN has been a fraction of yours (I spend far more time away from CN than on it) it seems you're getting desperate.
I suggest you use scripture to confirm scripture instead of making irrelevant boasts to bolster your position.


Finish Here January 2018
  
AXE. john9346 asked you the question "Are you an agnostic? atheist? A follower of Liberal Theology?"

I'm sure others here (like myself) are also wondering the same considering the odd claims you make that contradict the gospel.

Still waiting on you to actually justify your false doctrine that Matt 25 & 10, etc refer to NON Christians being saved based SOLELY on works, NOT faith.

But of course you and I both know that you will just continue to deflect and obfuscate, as you so often do.


Finish Here January 2018
  
AXE. All here on CN can see your false gospel claims non Christians (those who reject JC) are saved based SOLELY on works.

I answered your question about Matt 25 on why would Christians ask such a question (1/11/18).
And the scriptures I quoted giving spiritual descriptors for deeds in Matt 25 clearly fit.

You insist, without any scriptural support, that Matt 25, 10, etc refer to NON Christians (those who REJECT JC), claiming they're saved based SOLELY on works.
And then you contradict yourself when cornered about your salvation by works doctrine for the unsaved.

Scripture confirms scripture. I suggest you stop taking Matt 25 & 10, etc in isolation, to argue salvation based SOLELY on works.



Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Again you offer obfuscation to avoid explaining your contradictions.

Matt 25 YOU claim sheep are saved, but are NOT Christians.
That is these sheep (who reject JC) are saved SOLELY by some ambiguous level of good deeds.

Matt 10 YOU claim is NOT specifically describing Christians. You claim that simply giving a cup of water results in salvation reward, even if such a person rejects JC.

You have constantly avoided explaining your claims that those who reject JC, are saved SOLELY by works.
I'm wondering whether this is some silly game you're playing, or just an odd quirk.

BTW, I've repeatedly quoted scripture to you showing how Matt 25 & 10, etc refer to Christians, using SPIRITUAL descriptors.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. You repeatedly make contradictory claims.
To refresh your memory here's 3 of your claims below that contradict your last post.

The selection criterion between sheep and goats here is SOLELY based on deeds, NOT on faith...

Christians would know better than to ask "when did we feed you?" since they would already know the answer. SO WHO ARE THEY?

In Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41, Jesus says anyone who gives a cup of water will have his reward - NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HE'S A BELIEVER".


I've repeatedly shown you, from scripture, how Matt 25, 10, etc refers to Christians.
But you have repeatedly argued they're not.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. It's clear you follow a gospel where JC is irrelevant to salvation as works is enough.

You take Matt 25, Matt 10:42, in isolation from the the Bible, claiming they indicate anyone who REJECTS JC is still saved based SOLELY upon works, NOT faith.

Your false doctrine in effect claims that Muslims who deny Jesus is the Christ who died for our sin, and Atheists who deny that sin is even an issue anyway, are still saved if they give a cup of literal water, or do good deeds.

You've consistently failed to justify your false gospel of salvation based on works without the need for JC.

Nobody comes to the Father but through JC, John 14:6, BUT according to you, JC and his sacrifice for sin are not really necessary.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Your misleading and hypocritical use of the victim narrative is clearly just more of your usual deflection.

Salvation is the primary issue in the Bible.

We are called upon to believe on JC, John 3:16.

To believe on JC is the will of God, John 6:40.

Our works are to believe on JC, John 6:29.

Unbelief in JC is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16:9.

Nobody comes to the Father but through JC, John 14:6.

But YOU claim that Matt 25, Matt 10:42, etc contradicts the above, saying instead that good physical deeds saves those who reject JC, reject the will of God, committing the very sin the world is convicted of.

You should justify your claim.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. I see youre now even gloating of your virtue of being long suffering under a supposed constant attack by me, in spite of the fact you constantly deflect and obfuscate to avoid justifying your false gospel. And dont forget how you constantly attacked Conservatives with the derogatory lies from your Leftist leaders and Fake News media.
Clearly pot calling kettle black.

Still waiting for you to explain your doctrines contradiction of the gospel.
How can someone who rejects JC be saved by giving a cup of literal water in Matt 10.42?
How can someone who rejects JC be a saved sheep in Matt 25?


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Seems you now admit you were repeatedly refusing to answer me, even thinking its not provocative, whilst you allege I'm provocative by repeatedly trying to get you to explain your contradiction of gospel.

Lets consider your contradiction of gospel.

Gospel=believe on Jesus to be saved, John 3:16.
BUT YOU claim sheep (the saved) in Matt 25 are NOT Christians but saved anyway based on deeds. This also contradicts John 14:6, NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER BUT THROUGH JC.

You say Matt 10:42 ANYONE (including those who reject JC) is saved by giving a cup of water. Again you contradict gospel. But when we see Prov 25:25 water=GOOD NEWS (gospel) which is what CHRISTIANS preach to the lost.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. I see you're assuming my gender now.
Haz in Australia, is like Hal in USA. It's short for Harold.

As for provocation, my view is you have been provocative through your constant deflection and obfuscation to avoid answering my questions.

My points you failed to answer.

You suggest the sheep in Matt 25 are not Christians.

You suggest Matt 25, James 2. etc contradict the gospel.

You suggest Matt 10:42 speaks of non Christians as being saved based on giving a cup of water as a good deed.

You isolate the likes of Matt 25, etc from the rest of the Bible and then insist that your perspective that non Christians are saved based on good deeds is valid without the need for you to justify it.



Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Your constant obfuscation, deflection, and now even bluff and bluster, to avoid in depth scrutiny of your claims, only suggests you fail to understand the scriptures you quoted and just refuse to admit it.

And what's your false gospel?

You suggest Matt 25 sheep are non Christians who are saved based SOLELY on deeds.

You suggest Matt 25 contradicts the gospel.

You suggest Matt 10:42 is not referring to Christians with your claim there's "no fine print about "but only if he's a believer".

You have used the valid excuse before that CN's word limits make it difficult to answer everything, BUT you've had many opportunities to explain your false gospel, and avoided doing so.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Again you avoid answering by conveniently isolating Matt 25, Matt 10, Mark 9, from the Bible insisting it's "SOLELY works, NOT faith" for those who reject JC.

Your words there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" confirms this.

You consistently avoid explaining your false gospel.

Matt 25 is hypothetical, LIKENING the kingdom of Heaven to virgins with or without oil in lamps, or giving talents to servants and the one who made no profit was cast out, etc.

Matt 25 speaks hypothetically of entry or rejection from God's kingdom. Are the virgins with oil, and servants with talents also speaking of those who reject JC but saved by works under your false gospel?



Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. As I said to you before, the sheep are Christians, as I showed from other scriptures defining the spiritual descriptors in Matt 25.

As for your argument, it suggests the sheep in Matt 25 are NOT Christians because Christians would already know what JC refers to in Matt 25.
Also you ignore the fact it's a PARABLE, that LIKENS the Kingdom of Heaven to.....

Again, you are yet to justify your false gospel that salvation is based SOLELY on deeds, NOT faith.
Remember YOU SAID, there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" -12/22/17
Can I suggest that instead of all this deflection to avoid answering my questions, that you would do better admitting you don't understand Matt 25, James 2, Matt 7,


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Pharisees, Sadducees also believed there is one God, just as demons do (James 2:19).

But demons, Pharisees, Sadducees, etc, all refuse to submit to God's righteousness (Rom 10:3) thus they refuse to believe on Jesus, as the Christ, hence they are antiChrist (1John 2:22).

Believing in Jesus is really NOT believing in Jesus, but instead it's believing in God (John 12:44). Pharisees, Sadducees, demons, etc, do not believe in Jesus.

They reject the will of God (John 6:40, 1Thess 4:3), they reject Christ's command (John 3:16), they reject the works Jesus described we do (John 6:29).

BTW, still waiting for you to explain your suggestion that belief in JC is not needed for salvation as somehow deeds are sufficient.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
DAVID. The TWO commands of JC that Christians keep are (1John 3:23)
1: Believe on Jesus, John 3:16 (wherein our faith is counted for righteousness, Rom 4:5)
2: Love others (John 13:34)

So far you seem to be ignoring the many scriptures I've quoted to you in your efforts to argue that we are to mix works of the law with grace (BTW I'm aware of the various doctrines that try to justify the mixing of works of law with grace).

Many scriptures warn against mixing works of the law with grace (which is spiritual adultery).

We must not mix works of the law with grace (Rom 11:6).
The thief on cross and the woman in Luke 7:50 just believed on JC only to be saved. They did NO works of the law.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Jesus spoke in parables (Matt 13:11-14) so that ONLY Christians receive understanding.

Matt 25 speaks of Kingdom of Heaven is LIKENED TO (Matt 25:1 & 14).
The fact the Bible is available to all Christians TODAY telling us the message in Matt 25, then CLEARLY Christians TODAY know about it. Thus your point is irrelevant.
In fact your straw man argument suggests NO Christians are saved because we all know sheep & goat message.
The sheep CLEARLY are Christians who preached gospel to the SPIRITUALLY needy.

So again, you are yet to justify your false gospel that salvation is based SOLELY on deeds, NOT faith.
Remember YOU SAID, there's NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER" -12/22/17


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
DAVID. To not obey truth, and instead obey unrighteousness, is to mix works of law with grace. Such are spiritual adulterers (James 4.4), lukewarm (Rev 3:16), mixing sweet water (grace) with bitter (works of law), James 3.11.

AXE. Heres your 2 quotes again in the hope youll stop deflecting from your false gospel that belief in JC is unnecessary.

It's also clear these people are confused because they don't know why they are being rewarded. If they were all Christians, don't you think they would all KNOW and not need to ask? -12/20/17

Matthew 10:42 and Mark 9:41, Jesus says anyone who gives a cup of water will have his reward - NO FINE PRINT ABOUT "BUT ONLY IF HES A BELIEVER". -12/22/17


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
AXE. Yet again you avoid answering for your flawed claim (see 2 quotes of yours I gave in post 1/8/18) that believing on JC is not necessary as good deeds are sufficient to be saved.
Your constant deflection, etc, in avoiding answering for your false claim is not helping you.

DAVID. The works Christians do is to believe on JC, John 6.29.
This is also the will of God, John 6.40, 1Thess 4.3.
Unbelief in JC is the sin the world is convicted of, John 16.9.

This is confirmed by examples such as the woman in Luke 7.50, and the thief on cross who called Jesus Lord.

But mixing works of law with grace, cannot be, Rom 11.6, Gal 3.3.


Mix Of Grace Law Or
  
DAVID. I hope you noticed my post was mistakenly addressed to Kathr when it was meant for you.

AXE. Again you avoid dealing with my point. I'm well aware of your claim being specific to Matt 25, James 2.

BUT, you constantly avoid dealing with my critique of your claim that it's not necessary to believe on JC based on your flawed understanding of Matt 25, James 2.

And when you suggested gospel seems to contradict Matt 25, James 2, you offered no explanation how they do not contradict, yet claimed to have such understanding as to argue against the scriptures I gave explaining the SPIRITUAL descriptors in Matt 25, James 2.

Like I keep saying, your constant deflection and obfuscation is dragging out this debate.



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