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Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: Jesus DIDN'T PAY ROMAN TAXES! Do you NOW understand my position?

I understand your position. "I believe Jesus never paid Roman taxes" may be defensible. However, "The Bible says Jesus never paid Roman taxes" is not.


Finish Here February 2018
  
john9346:

"who hath made us a part of his elect" does not necessarily imply predestination. If you work for a company, and you do good work, and they promote you to manager, they "make you part of management", but the reason they do that was because of something YOU did, not something they foresaw in you before you were first hired.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

I pointed out that they didn't NEED his opinion (focusing on NEED). Instead, you said I was wrong in challenging the idea of OPINION - which is NOT what I was saying at all.

They didn't NEED or WANT or CARE about his opinion as they NEVER listened to or obeyed his teachings. The ONLY reason they asked him questions was to trick him and make him say things in public they could then condemn him for. They DELIBERATELY asked trick questions where EVERY answer was wrong (like "have you you stopped beating your wife?").

You ask "Do you think Jesus...". What I THINK is not the point. The bible nowhere SAYS Jesus avoided paying taxes.

kathr4453 PROVED Jesus and Peter paid the temple tax.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: He even evaded paying the Temple tax which the Jewish people complained about.

Jesus said He was exempt, but told Peter to get a coin from a fish and pay ONLY THE TEMPLE TAX!

So did he pay the temple tax or not? You just said he didn't, then he did.

JESUS STILL EVADED THE ROMAN TAX!

You KEEP saying that, but the Bible NEVER says that ANYWHERE.

The Bible states He didn't pay the Roman Tax

No, it doesn't! Show me a verse that ACTUALLY SAYS Jesus didn't pay the tax. There are none. Verses that you somehow magically deduce that from nothing don't count.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

I highlighted NEED, not OPINION. They didn't care if he paid taxes. The just wanted him to state his opinion IN PUBLIC, then denounce him publicly NO MATTER WHAT HE SAID, and he would have no defense, as others would have heard him say it. They did this frequently, on many subjects, like the woman taken in adultery, and the multi-widowed woman.

Which proves Jesus didn't have one penny in His pocket to PAY the Roman Tax in the first place.

Jesus not showing a coin proves nothing. If ask you to show me a dollar to show Washington's face, it doesn't prove I'm broke.

I mentioned poll taxes (so poll taxes were on point). "Trump is the best president" has NOTHING to do with taxation.


Finish Here February 2018
  
kathr4453:

If all scripture is given by inspiration of God, saying that one is permitted to use Revelation but not Matthew in a proof means you think one book is correct and the other isn't.

However, here goes.

The White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11-15):
The dead were judged according to what was in the books, according to THEIR DEEDS. Anyone not found in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

So tell me, who was NOT cast into the lake of fire here? Christians would have already been in the FIRST resurrection, and immune. These must therefore be non-Christians judged by WORKS.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

They didn't NEED his opinion. All questions they asked him were SOLELY to trip him up. "pay" brands him a Roman collaborator. "don't pay" brands him a tax evader. He found a third answer.

With the woman taken in adultery, "stone" is cruel, "don't stone" violates Mosaic law. He found a third answer.

Regardless of today, in the past, poll taxes (computed once every census) were practical. Income tax (without receits, as most people were paid daily in cash) was not.

Google poll tax to see how Israel and Rome did taxes. It verifies everything I have been saying.

You switched YOUR OWN SWITCH to a third subject. Please focus on one at a time.


Mark Of The Beast
  
jerry6593:

You wrote: Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Precisely! If you say "he is coming soon", that means YOU expect him soon. He will therefore surprise you and NOT come soon, because that's the last thing you will expect!

The only way he will come at a time when we don't expect is if there's no way we can tell when he's coming until he actually comes. Many doomsday prophets over the past two millenia have forgotten this, specified times and dates, and been proven wrong. Don't be one of them.

Are we to be READY for him to come at any time? Yes. Are we SURE that he will come at any specific time? No.


Finish Here February 2018
  
Steveng:

You wrote: all the other dead throughout all history shall rise and be judged from the book of life according to their works - some to everlasting death, some to everlasting life.

In other words, there will be some who will be judged worthy of everlasting life BECAUSE of their WORKS.


Finish Here February 2018
  
kathr4453:

Does this mean that most of the world was doomed to go to hell because they didn't have the opportunity to hear the gospel, through no fault of their own? E.g. people in China in 34 A.D. were doomed from the get go because it was their fault it would take evangelists centuries to get there from Jerusalem?


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

The Bible does NOT SAY ANYWHERE that Jesus did not pay taxes. You keep inferring that, but the Bible does not say it.

In America, the main tax is the INCOME tax. This requires a lot of computerized accounting that was not available 2000 years ago. It's impossible to tax something that isn't tracked. People were paid in cash and few people kept receipts. In those times, people paid POLL taxes. Everyone ALIVE paid the tax, based on the census. It had NOTHING to do with earned income.

Can we please stick to the subject (such as it now is) of Jesus's paying the tax, without dragging dubious partisan politics into it? (Trump is the WORST president EVER, but that is a subject for a different blog).


Finish Here February 2018
  
kathr4453:

Romans 1-2 speak about God's law being written on the hearts of ALL, making them without excuse when they break it. There are many who obey those laws (i.e. loving their neighbor, feeding the poor, etc.) even though they grow up in pagan cultures and don't have the opportunity to hear the gospel. The MAJORITY of humanity is in that situation. Let that sink in.

What's the point of writing God's law on people's hearts if, by obeying it, they end up going to hell anyway? That makes it sound like some kind of cruel joke.

(It's curious - I would expect Haz27 to be weighing in on this, but he hasn't posted in almost a month!)


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

ROMAN law said they should pay ROMAN taxes. JEWISH law said they shouldn't. Pharisees didn't ask Jesus questions to learn answers. They asked him lose-lose questions to deliberately trip him up no matter how he answered, but he outsmarted them.

Besides, you pay taxes on earned money.

That is INCOME tax. Rome didn't collect income taxes, as that requires a horrendous amount of accounting we can only now deal with. It collected POLL taxes - a fixed amount for each living person, determined by CENSUS (why census was taken). It was poll taxes that disenfranchised black voters in the south for years.

Would you and I appreciate a raise? Yes. Do we WHINE ABOUT IT and DEMAND a raise as Congressmen do? No.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

*I* never said I want to imprison people for not paying taxes. However, that *IS* the law of the land, decided by people other than me (especially since I have absolutely NO say in the matter).

We work as a society by providing certain services that benefit everyone (e.g. military, roads, air traffic control, electric power network, internet, etc.) and in order to provide those services, everyone has to contribute. EVERY SOCIETY ON EARTH works this way. If you can't stomach that social model, that's your problem. Go live on a mountaintop in Tibet.

Envy?! As I said, *I* am OK with what I receive. Republican congressmen making 20x what I make are not. So which of us is envious?


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

You wrote: YES IT DOES! Matthew 22:17 and Mark 17:15 Should we pay or shouldn't we?

That says NOTHING about whether Jesus ACTUALLY paid taxes. All it says is who SHOULD pay taxes - strangers DO, sons DON'T.

We are talking about ROMAN taxes. Jews were taxed because they were subjects and not citizens.
Jesus was a Jew. He was NOT A SON OF ROME, so he was NOT exempt. Why do you not understand this?

So who is REALLY being greedy?

Congressmen get paid about 20x as much as I do. I am content with what I get. They are NOT, and want a raise. Who is greedy again?


Finish Here February 2018
  
john9346:

You asked how I knew that the majority of people were going to hell. Isn't that implied if "few find the way to life"? Also (not related to this question, but related to things you said earlier elsewhere), this scripture talks about people finding life, not being "led" to it as God chooses it or not.

You challenged the idea that Hades might not be a real place, because the word "in" was used with respect to it. I just pointed out the flaw in that particular reasoning, as "in" is also used with a mind, which is NOT a real place.


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

I checked the dates. That nobody posted here in years doesn't make it appropriate to drag in unrelated conversations. "Finish it here" IS appropriate.

How do you KNOW Jesus didn't pay Roman tax? The Bible DOESN'T SAY he didn't. You can't infer a negative from silence. It ALSO doesn't say he went to the bathroom. Do you also conclude that he never did that either?

I have been on disability for the past 3 years, but paid taxes into the system for much longer than that. Those who make enough money to be above the poverty threshold must pay income tax. This is about twice what I get, and I make do, but Congressmen think $174000 is too little for them and want a raise! So who is being greedy?


Finish Here February 2018
  
john9346:

Romans 14:5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Does this mean that a mind is a literal place?


Nicole_Lacey:

That the Bible didn't EXPLICITLY say they paid taxes doesn't mean they didn't. It also doesn't say they went to the bathroom. EVERYBODY had to pay taxes, and Joseph and Mary and Jesus were PEOPLE, part of EVERYBODY. What part of that don't you understand??


john9346:

Matthew 7:14: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
(note "find" and not "are led to").


Gospel For Food
  
Absolutely not!


Pass Drivers Test
  
Nicole_Lacey:

This thread is about driving tests. Why drag tax discussion here? You've already dragged it into the "finish it" thread, where it is appropriate.

Matthew 17:26: Peter saith unto him, Of strangers. Jesus saith unto him, Then are the children free.

Jesus was NOT a son of Rome. Therefore he was NOT exempt. We are talking about ROMAN taxes, from the perspective of ROME (Jesus was NOT a son of Rome), NOT Jewish taxes from the perspective of God (Jesus was God's son)

By complaining that 49% of the population gets a check, you're implying you AREN'T part of that 49%. Either you're jealous of them (I don't believe that), or you think you're better than they are because you don't get a check.



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