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The New Testament Books
We are now under a new covenant, but it doesn't make sense without the context of the old covenant. ---StrongAxe on 2/20/1

I agree, and in many ways the New Testament mirrors the Old. So much can be learned about God, and Gods relationship with men by reading the Old Testament. But for many, the God of the Old Testament, his personage, changed in the New Testament.

For example, When we look into the mirror of the Old Covenant, sin was the breaking of Gods Law. But for those who claim they are not under Gods Law, sin without the Law.

According to Paul in (Romans 2:12), what happens to folks who sin without the Law?

The New Testament Books
The Old Testament is filled with examples about folks who were under the Law of Moses. Why are we given so many examples of those who were under the Law, if we are under no Law?

Isnt a Testament a covenant between God and Man? Isnt a covenant, a law?

Obviously if those under the Old Covenant, were under the Law of Moses, those under the New Covenant could not be under the Law of Moses too, else it would not be called The New Covenant.

Why though, is it called a New Covenant, a New Law, if we are not under Gods Law, like those who were under The Law of Moses?

Scriptures Of The Early Church
I would like to hear a little more, but I have one question that has always puzzled me.

Most folks, including myself, think God chooses among those who believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, as to who he will save. Predestination teaches God makes this choice before we were ever born.

If God chooses who he will save before we are born, how does someone come to believe in Jesus Christ, before they are born?

Scriptures Of The Early Church
The bible alone declares it truthfulness evidentailly and factualness...---john9346 on 1/31/18

I dont deny the Bible is the word of God, and its easily my favorite book to read. But I believe a person must first believe in God, before they will except its the word of God.

Predestination....You do have some verses that are hard to ignore. Lets Take this discussion up at another time, after I read your side with an open mind. Thats not easy to do...but Ill try.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
First, I knew that question would be of a challenge to you, but I accept your answer ---john9346 on 1/30/18

Not sure why you think your question was such a challenge, for no matter who WE believe the source, by itself, its not evidence of anything. Buddhists and Muslims also have books, if they are evidence of their Gods, why didnt you goin them?

Now as to the verses you gave, which do support predestination, this is how I read (Romans 9).

If a man must be born again, to see the kingdom of God, these verses refer to the gestation of time after you come from the womb of your mother...but before being born of God.

But I can see why you read it as you do.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
Can you tell me, who is the source of the bible?
---john9346 on 1/29/18

Ive answered many of your questions, now will you answer one for me?

The church began before Paul wrote his epistles, so this means no one was able to teach from them. What was their source, and where did the Lords twelve apostles teach predestination?

Scriptures Of The Early Church
So if I want to know the truth I should not go to the bible I should seek experience?---john9346 on 1/28/18

The Bible is a good source of confirming your information about God, but by itself, it doesnt prove anything. If it did, everyone would believe in God after reading it. Here on CN, you have believers throwing verses at one another, and yet does anyone change their mind?

I read in a book that applying a thin paste to a sprained ankle, made out of cayenne Pepper and water, will heal the ankle in less than an hour. Sounds silly, but how will I know if this is true, unless I try it on my sprained ankle?

This is why Jesus called folks, Wise, who do what he tells them to do. The experience will reveal the Truth.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
Yup, thats me John. Just making sure. Now as to your question.

What is the standard the Holy Spirit uses to teach anyone??
---john9346 on 1/25/18

Experience is the standard of the Holy Spirit. Experience which comes through your relationship with God. I understand the Bible because of my experience with God. It was due to my experience with God that I came to understand the Bible. Without the teaching of the Holy Spirit, there would be no experience, just the Bible.

A book, without Gods Holy Spirit, is not much of an education.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
If I understand your post correctly, this is quite a boast. That you know what causes sin. Wow, please enlighten us.---Mark_Eaton on 1/26/18

(Matthew 15:19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Is the Lord was boasting too?

Sir, you are the right David and I will provide you the quotations and the postings.---john9346 on 1/26/18

That may prove difficult and require a lot of research, but I hope whatever you find will be worth your efforts.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
You will certainly know one day what freedom you could have had.
---Mark_Eaton on 1/25/18

A belief which allows you immunity, from the penalty of sin, is not the freedom you should be seeking. The freedom comes, when that which causes sin, dies in you.

Also, i'm wondering what is your standard for judging right and wrong doctrine because in past conversation when I have challenged you you have said what the Holy Spirit has taught you---john9346 on 1/25/18

I believe your at a disadvantage here, because their are two Davids and sometimes three. I believe you have the wrong David. But still, feel free to challenge me.

Scriptures Of The Early Church
I rarely correspond with you David, because I have seen you to be stiff-necked when it comes to the subjects of OT Law and NT grace.---Mark_Eaton on 1/24/18

In reality, if your honest, isnt the rarity of your correspondence due to your inability to support your position using the Bible, as I do? I dont say this to cause you to anger, but to challenge you to prove me wrong, by using only the doctrine the disciples had. Which is the point of Stevens question.

The reference was to the false doctrines folks follow. It doesn't do any good to call an individual doctrine false, if you cant show it to be false. And you cant show it to be false, when folks are blind to the Truth.

How Was Christianity Maintained
(Hebrews 10:16) This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them,

Samuel, John, Kathryn and StrongAxe
Why would God put his Law into our minds and write them on our hearts, if we are not under his Law?

Scriptures Of The Early Church
Good question, asked to cause folks to think on their own, apart from their doctrine. My guess is they were forced to rely heavily on the Holy Spirit for the confirmation of Truth, rather than just take someones word for it.

Notice, Paul has more books in the Bible than those he called the super apostles. Why? Its because they could pervert his letters.

How Was Christianity Maintained
Now since we both know the Law of Moses was done away with, this can not be the Law Paul was referencing in (Romans 2: 12 & 13).

So what Law is Paul talking about?

How Was Christianity Maintained
David, answer this question for me, how is a Christian justified? ---john9346 on 1/22/18

I will let the Bible answer that for you.
(Romans 2:12 & 13) For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law, For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Do you accept Pauls answer?

How Was Christianity Maintained
StrongAxe, Kathryn and Samuel
We are not under the Law of Moses, but we are not under the Law of Christ.
Absolute Proof?

What do we call the Law given to Moses? Is it not called the Old Covenant?
What do we call the Law of Christ? Is it not called the New Covenant?
What is a Covenant?
An agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

Besides, God called the New Covenant, The Law, in (Hebrews 8:10)
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

How Was Christianity Maintained
Christians are no longer under the law. ---StrongAxe on 1/21/18

(1 John 2:3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

How can you keep his commandments, when you say we dont have any? Arent Gods commandments called the Law?

BTW, I dont use apostrophes in words like dont, because my I-Pad wont let me use apostrophes for some reason. We have a lot of smart folks here, can anyone tell me why?

(Revelation 14:12) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

These saints mentioned above, why would they keep the commandments if they were not under the Law?

How Was Christianity Maintained
To put Paul at odds with Jesus to its Logical Conclusion is putting Christ against himself...---john9346 on 1/20/18

I agree, but thats what both Catholic and Protestant doctrines do. Paul built on the Gospel of Christ, whereas both your doctrines circumvent Christs doctrine.

Both Your doctrines teach a believer is not under the Law. This is a fact. Isnt it also a fact, you must die to sin before you can live for Christ? Tell me, anyone of you, in (Romans 7: 7-12) doesnt Paul clearly say it was the Law which brought about his death to sin?

Now since you folks claim your not under the Law of God, as Paul claims he was, before he died to sin, how do you without Gods moral Law, die to sin?

How Was Christianity Maintained
Its very easy to fall prey to a man made religion, when you follow them blindly.

Both Catholic and Protestant religions are man made. Easy to prove, when all one needs to do is look at their rituals. I see no rituals in the Bible. I only see Christs doctrine, which when followed, brings a man closer to God as Christ promised.

Though its Kinda hard to follow, when your doctrines teach you erroneously, following Christ is against the teachings of Paul.

How Was Christianity Maintained
How was Christianity maintained?
If our body is our temple, logic dictates it has been maintained in the individual believer. Christ lives in the believer, not in some building we see as Holy.

In the Bible, folks met in their homes and I suspect that is how it has been maintained ever since.

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