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Predestined For Hell

What are "life" and "destruction" in Mt 7:13-14? If not salvation and damnation, then what?

Rev 3:19: "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten" Makes no mention of how many.
Rev 5:11: 101 thousand angels: no mention of humans here.
Rev 19:1: "much people" - no specific numbers
Rev 19:6: "great multitude" - no specific numbers, and no mention if they were humans or angels.

I said "Do the math" - i.e. take facts, and connect the dots to their inevitable conclusion.

I didn't say Calvinists SAY billions lost. They teach PREDESTINATION - i.e. God decides who will be saved. FEW are saved and MANY are lost, so at LEAST 3.5 billion will be lost.

Predestined For Hell

1. It is UP TO YOU to show what I said - NOT me to prove your point and accuse me of short memory when I don't.

2. I SPECIFICALLY said Jesus didn't mention numbers, so saying I did is a LIE. He said "many" and "few". Our world has numbers. *YOU* to do the math.

Calvinists believe predestination - God chooses who will be saved - those who won't are NECESSARILY damned from birth, and there's nothing they can do to change that. Prove me wrong.

3. Scripure is TRANSLATED into English. Are translators are wrong? What "context" makes "few" larger than "many"? I'm waiting.

4. Rev 7? Compared to 7 billion, 144000 is a drop in the bucket. What numbers in Rev 5?

Predestined For Hell

I do. Do you know where I get "Jesus' own words"? From the Bible, as the Evangelists transcribed them, not as some people do, by imaginging what they think Jesus might be telling them in their heads, even if it constradicts scripture, as that's how many cults are born.

Please explain exactly what in my last several messages was incorrect. That is exactly the conclusion one must reach if one believes Calivinism.

No, Matthew 7 doesn't mention EXACT NUMBERS, but every human on the planet has a common sense understanding of what the words "many" and "few" mean. Do the math. And please don't presume to jump to conclusions about "my World View".

Predestined For Hell

Matthew 7:13 ...for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Very simple use of English or any other language: MANY is larger than FEW.

Very basic mathematics: If you split a group of things into two parts, one of which is larger than the other, the larger part is MORE THAN HALF, and the smaller part is LESS THAN HALF.
Since there are 7+ billion people on the earth, and half is 3.5+ billion, MORE than 3.5+ billion people are going to destruction. If you can't grasp this, I suggest re-taking elementary school math.

Predestined For Hell

The Bible DOES say that the way is narrow, and "few" find it. "Few" necessarily means "less than half". At present, there are in excess of 7 billion people on earth (not counting all the people who have gone before), which necessarily means 3.5 billion+ pre-destined for hell, according to Calvinism - created solely to burn in agony for eternity.

No, parents aren't. But is it just to create someone unable to perform a task, require them to perform that task, and then condemn them for not being able to perform that task SPECIFICALLY because you created them unable to perform that task in the first place?

Predestined For Hell

The problem with Calvinistic predestination is this:
God created us.
God created laws.
These laws are SO difficult that NOBODY is capable of obeying them.
Therefore, God has CREATED US TO FAIL.

God condemns all who fail to everlasting torement in hell.
God only saves those that he chooses.
God only chooses a small number. It's his choice, not ours.

Therefore, God created BILLIONS of people whose SOLE PURPOSE is to burn in hell forever.
If any parent told his kids, "Here's a 50 foot wall. If you can't jump it, I'm doing to torture you to death", we would call that cruel, sadistic, and evil, yet it's somehow OK for God?

Dormition Of Mary
"Just because the majority believe something is right, that doesn't necessarily mean it IS right" is very different from "If the majority believe something is right, that necessarily means it is wrong". The first says that the majority are not infallible, while the second says they are always wrong - two very different things.

Dormition Of Mary

Just because they are not official CC doctrine doesn't mean that nobody believes them. Many did and many do.

From Wikipedia Co-Redemptrix:

... is a title used by some Roman Catholics for the Blessed Virgin Mary ...
It has always been controversial and has never formed part of the dogma of the Church. ... Related to this belief is the concept of Mary as Mediatrix, which is a separate concept but regularly included by Catholics who use the title Co-Redemptrix.

The concept was especially common in the late Middle Ages, when it was promoted heavily among the Franciscans ... In more recent times, the title has received some support from the Catholic Magisterium [Benedict XV 1918] ...

Is Medical Marijuana Biblical
The Bible doesn't mention marijuana. It frequently condemns wine and strong drink - not because they are inherently evil, but because of the dangers of drunkenness.

Despite this, Jesus' very first recorded miracle was turning water into wine. 1 Timothy 5:23 recommends wine for an upset stomach. Proverbs 31:6 recommends wine for those with heavy hearts, and strong drink to those near death.

Marijuana is like any other drug, with good and bad effects. THC has been shown less dangerous than opioids - there has been one overdose death so far, compared to thousands from opioids. The best people to decide whether any drug is for you are you and your doctor, based on your particular circumstances.

Absent From Our Body

You wrote: Trinitarians believe there two "God's" sitting next to eachother

Jehovah's Witnesses frequently quote their own interpretation of John 1:1, i.e. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the word was [a] god".

If Jesus was merely "a" god, don't you still ALSO believe in two "gods" sitting next to each other? The only difference between what you believe and what we believe here in whether or not one of them is capitalized.

Keeping Of Sunday

You wrote: The Sabbath is to be kept in the New Testament just as it was in the Old.

Please cite chapter and verse IN THE NEW TESTAMENT that says we have to do this.

Just follow the example of Jesus and the Disciples and you can't go wrong.

Yes, let's do that!

Did Jesus and the Apostles condemn murder, theft, adultery, perjury, covetousness, idolatry, blasphemy, false swearing, and disrespecting of parents? Yes.

But it's curious that neither Jesus nor any Apostle commanded keeping the Sabbath or condemned Sabbath breaking. In fact, One Apostle specifically said we should not allow anyone to judge us in this. Why do you not follow the example of Jesus and his disciples?

Absent From Our Body

I never mentioned 1 Peter 3:18, so "my view" of it is something you pulled entirely out of your imagination.

By calling me a "cornered trinitarian", you assume that you have already won the argument. This is not the case, but since JWs automatically believe everything their often-proven-wrong cult leaders tell them and never listen to any evidence to the contrary, this is hardly surprising.

"My X" is literally a shorthand for "The X of me" for any language that has possessive pronouns, to you're splitting a dead hair. To whom was Thomas speaking? You claim to know what he "had in mind", but I prefer to trust what he ACTUALLY SAID rather than relying on ESP.

Keeping Of Sunday

The answer to your question is similar to the answer to jerry6593's question:

There is nothing in the New Testament that commands us to observe the Sabbath, nor that tells us how to do so.

Absent From Our Body

After Jesus' resurrection, Thomas addressed him as "My Lord and my God!". If this was incorrect, why did Jesus did not correct him?

You call me inept, yet your own cult has continuously proven itself inept by again and again predicting the date when Jesus would return, and when it didn't happen, it said "Oops! We're received new light that we didn't have before", yet still maintains that it alone is empowered to interpret the meaning of scripture, despite having gotten it wrong again and again.

Also, there was no need to post your last response twice, solely to add an insult calling me inept, especially given that there are only 75 responses permitted per blog topic to be shared among everyone.

Absent From Our Body

Immortality of the soul is not incompatible with Christ's death. Living forever saved in heaven is infinitely preferable to living forever damned in hell (I know you don't believe in hell).

Calling kathr 666 is flinging mud, which is NOT Christ-like. At the Final Judgment, will you say "It was OK for me to be evil because others were evil to me first!" ?


You obviously haven't read her comments to me about Matthew 25 salvation criteria.

David8318 constantly quotes JW doctrine, contrary to trinitarian belief, shared by Christians of most denominations. JWs say ALL other Christians are apostate, so they can't complain when others say the same of them (i.e. The Golden Rule).

Keeping Of Sunday

You wrote: And why do you insist that I am judging you? It is God that judges us all by His Ten Commandment Law - not ME.

That very statement is tantamount to "You are wrong and God will punish you for it" - which is judging me.

I have asked you many times, but you have never answered - WHY are you SO OBSESSED over the Sabbath commandment? Why do you spend such an overwhelming time arguing this ONE ISSUE on many many blogs here, more than all other commandments? The Bible has much to say about idolatry, murder, covetousness, adultery, perjury, and many other sins, yet you almost never talk about those. It says little about Sabbath observance, yet that seems to be your primary focus. Why is that?

Absent From Our Body

Your comments are, as always, a delight.


Precisely. He said in spirit NOT as a spirit. "Obeying the spirit rather than the letter of the law", doesn't mean disembodied ghosts.

If Jesus was made lower than the angels WHILE STILL BEING MICHAEL, he could just as easily have been made lower than the angels WHILE STILL BEING GOD. Again, you can't use this argument to prove Jesus wasn't God without ALSO proving Jesus wasn't Michael, making JW theology fall apart.

This is NOT "kathr's bizarre theology". It's theology believed by THE VAST MAJORITY of Christians on this planet. JW "bizarre theology" is a very tiny minority here.

Absent From Our Body

Using pejoratives like "kathr666" is childish. Christians should do better. By the Golden Rule, you should never mock someone and call them the devil unless you WANT others to do the SAME to YOU.

You say she "obviously" doesn't believe Jesus died. She has never said that. You just infer it with convoluted JW logic.

If Jesus can't be God because God can't die, Jesus can't be Michael, because angels can't die. Using arguments that destroy your own position is poor debating strategy.

JWs believe Jesus is not God but merely "a god", despite God's First Commandment: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me". If he's not God, he's a rival we should have nothing to do with.

Netflix The Family

Yes, exactly. The Old Covenant was the Convenant of Moses - that was defined by a bunch of rules that said "Don't do this! Don't do that!" - ten on stone, and 619 in total.

The New Covenant, that we Christians are under, IS NOT LIKE THAT. Jesus said that the two MOST important laws were to love God and love your neighbor, and that ALL of the Law and the Prophets are derived from this.

But that isn't enough for you. You want to keep all the baggage that Jesus specifically freed us from. Being bound by the New Covenant isn't enough for you. You force yourself to obey the old one as well. I'm curious if you obey ALL of it, or just pick and choose.

Keeping Of Sunday

NOWHERE in the Bible does it say we are to WORSHIP on the Sabbath or we are FORBIDDEN to WORSHIP on any other day. Can YOU find any? I asked this question many times, but so far, no Sabbatarians have EVER shown any. Can you?

Colossians 2:16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

So we VOLATE SCRIPTURE if we let you judge us in this.

Romans 14:5: One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

So YOU violate scripture if you don't allow us to make up our own minds.

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