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Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Science relies on objective evidence, reproducible independent of the observer. Faith relies on trusting something without evidence.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
And of the two, Faith and Science(wisdom of man), which one should the Christian rely?

The Atheist does not believe in God because of the wisdom of man. The Christian believes in God because of Faith. You seem to be standing on the fence.

(1 Corinthians 1:21)
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save those who believe.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Scientists first disbelieved Biblical accounts of the Hittites, as no evidence of them was ever found. Later, evidence WAS found, so they were happy to believe in Hittites.
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
And Here you prove my point. For folks who believe as you do, The Hittites didnt exist, until science proved they existed. If they had not proved it, they would have remained fictional characters in the bible.

You dont believe in their existence because the Bible says they existed, you believe because science says they did. And for now, you wont believe Noah existed, unless science can prove he existed.

I have faith in the Bible as the word of God, not the Book of Mormon or the Quran.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Young earth arguments begin with pre-supposition "Earth MUST be 6000 years old", then make observations fit that, like eisegesis ("Let us make the text say what we want").---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Old earth arguments begin with the pre-supposition "Earth MUST be billions of years old", then make their observations to fit that. They must use science to explain God, and for that which science can not explain, it can not be true.

The Young earth arguments begin and end with Gods word, and his word is proof enough. If we placed our faith in Science, as you clearly do, we would probably share many of your arguments.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
StrongAxe
For some reason...though I have tried many times to respond to your question, CN has not allowed me to give my answer. So I will try again with a condensed version.

In short, your answer can be found in the fact that salt water is heavier than fresh water. When mixed, they will separate, creating different layers of water. Since These layers of water were suspended over the currents of the Colorado river, the salt water would probably have been suspended in the middle.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Non sequitur ---Cluny

Why not? Explain please.

Cluny
In the sedimentary layers of the Grand Canyon, you can find Marine fossils. The Colorado River didnt produce them, so how did they get there?


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
I'm not saying ALL rivers carve canyons. --StrongAxe

StrongAxe
If the Colorado River cut the Grand Canyon, through its erosive powers, as science believes, All Rivers, should be creating Canyons. If that doesnt sound logical to you, it does to me. Science uses comparatives in many cases to prove their point, but for some reason...they dont use it in this case.

How many canyons do you say were created by floods, and can you give geological evidence for your assertions?---Cluny

Cluny
All of them.
There are Petrified trees, standing vertical, in million year old sedimentary layers. Which means the trees being buried, lived millions of years while being buried. River erosion could not do this.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
The Grand Canyon was carved by the Colorado River.---Cluny

Cluny and StrongAxe
If the Grand Canyon was formed by the Colorado River, as science says, why arent other rivers creating canyons too? If this is how Canyons are created, we should have them in every river bed, shouldnt we?


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Science can't explain how the miracle happened, but it CAN analyze the normal aftereffects.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Very Good explanation! Now I understand your thought process, and also the reason you bring up the receding of the flood waters. If we can not explain where the flood waters went...then the argument is made mute. I can see your wisdom in that argument.

I, on the other hand, see the only plausible explanation to the creation of places like the Grand Canyon and sand dunes in the Sahara Desert, to be a great Flood. Scientifically speaking...What do you think created the Grand Canyon?


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
StrongAxe
I am a fish out of water here. I have no answer that could cause you, to have faith in all of Gods word. You need science to prove the Bible, when I am a man who simply has faith in Gods word. If the Bible says it happened, Thats good enough for me.

Being a man of science and of faith, how does science explain the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ? How does science explain the miracles Jesus performed? How does science explain the Hereafter?

Science can not explain any of this, and yet, you believe it to be true.
Why??


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
StrongAxe
My point was, the glaciers could be where some of the flood waters went. The rest, could be stored in our ground waters. With the absorbed waters, The earth may actually be larger now, than when God created it.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
I am not sure. But why is it important whether I do or don't?---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Because when I discuss the Bible with folks, whether they choose to agree or disagree, I sometime see the Bible as my evidence. But if that person doesnt believe whats written in the Bible, as factual, its a waste of my time using that evidence. So, I will try to use your science.

Never really gave much thought to where the flood waters went, but then again,....maybe they didnt go anywhere.
Have you ever wondered, What would happen if all the Glaciers of the world melted?

BTW, thanks for not correcting me on my vocabulary. The spell correction on my IPad changes my words and apostrophes on words are made impossible.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
The Bible includes many stories, whose purpose is to teach us how to relate to God - i.e. to teach us faith.

Jesus constantly taught in parables - non-factual stories that taught truths.
---StrongAxe on 1/23/20


The parables, good example, now I think I understand your point. You see the story of Noah in the way I look at the Lords parables.
Since you view it as a parable, Do you believe Noah even existed?


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
My point is, the Bible is a book about faith, not science. ---StrongAxe

Exactly my point. Which is something about you and Cluny, folks like me fail to understand about your faith. The Bible is a book about faith, which has stories you dont seem to believe. And yet, you have faith in the teachings of the bible. If you could explicitly your view of Noah, that would be a big help.

Do you see it as just a story someone tells children? What is the point of having it written in the Bible?


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
StrongAxe
All great questions..but don't you agree, the Christian must suspend our realities, when having faith in God?

For my own personal understanding, could you tell me why you believe in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, but don't believe the story of Noah. If it is not true, why do you believe it is written in the bible?

My own personal belief, my only plausible thought about where the flood waters could have gone, is found in the ring of fire. God could have simply opened up a crack in this ring and turned the flood waters into steam. The Grand Canyon was formed, much like Lake Peigneur in Louisiana.


Seashells On Top Mountains
  
Shells of creatures that died millions of years ago on top of a mountain aren't compatible with a flood that happened less than six thousand years ago either. ---StrongAxe

If not by flood, do you think they got there?

Do you know how much food would have to be stored on the Ark to feed two of every species of animal for a year?---StrongAxe

Do you know how much food it would take to feed 5,000 people? Yet According to (Matthew 14) Jesus fed over 5,000 people with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fish. If Jesus could feed so many people, with so little, do you think God could have fed the animals in the same manner?


What Is Your Truth
  
Other denominations have many doctrines I agree with. Some I don't agree with. So not all the rest are lies. Just some are mistaken.---Samuelbb7

Samuel
An untruth is still a lie. But just so you know, I do not call those who teach such things, Liars. Because they teach them, believing it to be the Truth.

If Folks looked at those who teach false doctrines, as merely ignorant of the Truth, instead of seeing them as Liars, we would probably begin to see each other as one family, and discover the Truth together.


What Is Your Truth
  
I am a Christian a member of the SDA church because what I read in the bible matches what we teach.---Samuelbb7

Samuel
To be honest, Doug Batchelor is the only TV preacher I can stand. One day I will have to attend one of your churches, and ask my own questions.

I Dont agree with Saturday sabbath, but outside of that, I cant think of anything you have said, I disagree with. My biggest issue, the issue that keeps me from attending Church, is the salvation teachings which are being taught.

If someone asks, What must I do to be saved, What direction do you give them?


Celebrating Christmas Day
  
StrongAxe
If you think Betrayal, was a sign of their love for God,...well Okay then.


Celebrating Christmas Day
  
There are people in loving relationships with God, and still fall away. Look at Lucifer and Judas.
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
What makes you believe Lucifer and Judas loved God, when both of them betrayed God?


Celebrating Christmas Day
  
I was forced to go to school and even the doctor. Ain't it awful!---Cluny

Cluny
There is nothing wrong with forcing a child to to church,...IF that church teaches the Truth. A Truth that will lead one into a relationship with God. The Churches I attended, caused me to go astray.

If I had been in a loving relationship with God, like the one I have now, do you think that could have happened?

Look at all the Great men and women of the Bible, those in a relationship with God the Father. Did they go astray? No...and why not? Because they loved God as a child loves a Father.



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