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He Is A Devout Catholic
  
john9346:

Are you praying that, or are you quoting official Catholic doctrine? If so, can you cite the reference? Show actual facts.


Steveng:

Almost everything you ever do on these blogs is accuse others of apostasy, and "attack with vitrolic comments". Your own "holier than thou" accusatory attitude aptly demonstrates where your allegiances are, and who your lord is. You claim to be Christian but fail to follow the simple principal teachings of Jesus (love, tolerance and forgiveness). Instead, you choose passages from the bible that are convenient for your personal ideology, and ignore others - while at the same time condemning everyone else whose emphasis is even slightly different.


How To Speak In Tongues
  
john9346:

You wrote: But you don't even believe in Scripture

Stop LYING! I NEVER said that! I said I don't believe in Sola Scriptura, NOT I don't believe in Scripture.

you even think the bible is no different then the Koran or the Book of Mormon

Stop LYING! I NEVER said that! I just asked, in an reductio ad absurdum argument, what criteria *****YOU****** use to determine that the Bible IS scripture, but the Qur'an and the Book of Mormon are NOT, or that John is scripture and Laodiceans are NOT. You have yet to answer these questions.


How God Saves People
  
Steveng:

Revelation 9 describes locusts with golden crowns, faces like men, hair of women, teeth of lions, breastplates of iron, wings with sounds of chariots, and tails like scorpions with stings.

Anyone who has ever seen the film Apocalypse Now, or any similar war film, would immediately see the similarity with assault helicopters and their missile trails.

However, these locusts had power to torture men five months, and they didn't harm plants, so this couldn't be talking about Vietnam (i.e. helicopters spread Agent Orange as a defoliant, and their missiles killed). Still, the similarity gives as a hint as to what they MIGHT look like.


He Is A Devout Catholic
  
Cluny:

1. We are saved by grace, through faith, not by baptism. Jesus commanded us to be baptized. He commanded his apostles to sell their swords and buy cloaks. He also later commanded them to sell their cloaks and buy a sword. None of these things are REQUIRED for salvation. The thief on the cross wasn't baptized, yet he was saved anyway.

2. In the N.T., bishops were congregational, so the N.T. shows hierarchical congregational polity. Don't Baptists have deacons, etc. as well?


He Is A Devout Catholic
  
john9346:

Just what "God Qualities" do either the Catholic or Orthodox churches attribute to icons? I invite you to provide any references to official church teachings that do so.

Also, I never said "God Qualities". I said "reverence". There is a big difference. Most people revere their mothers too, but most don't think their mothers are God.


How To Speak In Tongues
  
john9346:

You wrote: Speaking in tongues ceased with the death of the last apostles for it was a sign of confirmation.

It is curious that you say this, because you are such a big advocate of Sola Scriptura, yet there is nothing in scripture that says this. It says "tongues will cease", but never says WHEN.

Also, this blog has been inactive for 6 months, so I doubt that anyone who was discussing this topic is still paying attention (although it's not as bad as resurrecting blogs that have been dormant for 6 years).


He Is A Devout Catholic
  
Melody:

Cluny has mentioning "praying to cloth" here for years in a reductio ad absurdum response to criticism of "praying to statues". You are new here, so you may not be aware of this.

I'm not defending Cluny - he can defend himself. I'm just agree with his calling out the hypocrisy of those who pledge allegiance to the flag who condemn those who show reverence to icons, because both are doing exactly the same thing.

As for your assertion that he is under "serious spiritual error", again, look to your own beam before criticizing the speck in someone else's. You arrogantly assume Baptists are Christians and Catholics are not. Some Catholics believe the reverse, and both are wrong.


He Is A Devout Catholic
  
Melody:

I think that Cluny's descripion of "saying prayers to pieces of cloth" refers to saying the Oath of Allegiance to the Flag, which is, literally, if you think about it, a prayer to faithfulness to a piece of cloth. It isn't a supernatural prayer, but it is a prayer, nonetheless.

How is paying reverence to a flag (that you know isn't God) any different than paying reverence to a statue of a saint (that you know isn't God either)?


Turn The Other Cheek
  
Far from being weak, this shows shrewdness. The Art of War by Sun Tzu is considered one of the greatest treatises on warfare, even thousands of years after it was written. One thing it teaches it never fight your opponent at a place of his choosing, because he picks a place where he is strong and you are weak. Instead, YOU choose the battleground.

If someone punches you, he chooses physical combat. If you punch him back, you accept his choice of weapons (and will probably lose). If you refuse to hit back, you reject his choice and choose your own (spirituality and intellect), and if he fights you there, HE will lose.


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

I ask for the SEVENTH TIME:

You claim to believe in "Sola Scriptura" - i.e. everything we need to know about our faith we can determine from scripture alone, yet this requires that we actually know what IS scripture, and what is NOT. So, for the SEVENTH TIME, I ask: how do YOU know which scriptural books YOU can safely base your doctrines on? I would figure that this would be an extremely vital thing for you to know.


Melody:

You talk about "Those here that constantly contradict THE TRUE WORD OF GOD". Instead of just making veiled insinuations, why don't you point out EXACTLY who those people are, and EXACTLY which parts of the Word of God they contradict, and when, and how?


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

I can't say, exactly, I am not claiming there is some kind of "obvious" separation between what actually is divinely-inspired scripture, and what is not. You, however, because you insist on Sola Scriptura - i.e. that scripture is NECESSARILY the only thing sufficient to determine our faith, it is vital to know exactly what writings are, and are not, scripture - otherwise, how can you base your faith on them?

I have asked you at least six times now what criteria YOU use to tell the difference, but I have yet to hear an adequate answer. You keep mentioning "church fathers", but their beliefs are just "tradition", which you say you reject. State those "logical fact" you refer to.


Western Eastern Religions
  
john9346:

You wrote: Really? proove it??

No. YOU prove it, because YOU are the one pushing the whole "sola scriptura" argument, which is never mentioned anywhere in the Bible. For the umpteenth time:

What criteria do YOU use to determine whether any particular book is scripture or not?


So, Hilary embraced the KKK.

Hillary is not president. Trump IS. She cannot damage the country, because she is not in a position of power. He CAN and DOES.


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

You wrote: So right here right now in front of all should Laodicea be added among Mathew Mark Luke and John as Scripture yes or no??

I don't think so, but I base that on my own subjective interpretation, and on that of early church tradition. You, on the other hand, reject church tradition and subjective interpretations, so I want to know why **YOU** would reject it, while also accepting John, despite the fact that scripture itself provides more corroboration for Laodiceans (i.e. Paul mentioned it), but none for John.


Western Eastern Religions
  
Nicole_Lacey:

Last April, Trump said he knew nothing about the payout to Daniels. Now, he's saying it didn't matter, because it had nothing to do with campaign financing - so he DID now, and lied last April.

The payout was to prevent fallout before the election - only necessary because he lied on his wedding vows to Melania (just like he lied to his first two wives).

National Enquirer knew before the election, but sat on the story because they wanted him elected.

Lies, upon lies, upon lies.

KKK: You keep focusing on what parties did a century ago. What matters is what they do NOW. Trump did not repudiate KKK endorsement.

99.98% of Muslims are not terrorists. Judge them by what THEY do, not the 0.02%.


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

I never argued that they SHOULD. It was a reductio ad absurdum argument to show that *YOU* have no valid reason to reject them from being scripture, without having some scriptural basis for doing so (and since nothing in the Bible says they are NOT scripture), you must have some other criterion for deciding that they aren't. I've asked you on numerous occasions to show such unambiguous criteria, yet you have not yet done so.

I keep asking name one just 1 church father or council who can support

Hello? You, who keep dismissing church tradition as being irrelevant, are asking to use church tradition for corroboration? Please make up your mind!


Prayer For Healing
  
Cluny:

My point was not to quibble over who accepted the Apocrypha, but to emphasize the fact that some Christians accept it while others do not - i.e. their choices are based on subjective criteria rather than divinely-laid out objective ones.

Qur'an 2:97 claims Gabriel revealed it:
Say, "Whoever is hostile to Gabriel - it is he who revealed it to your heart by God's leave, confirming what preceded it, and guidance and good news for the believers.

Unfortunately, I could never read much of BoM, and quickly put it down out of boredom (even after a few attempts) so I can't cite any specific quotes.


Prayer For Healing
  
Melody:

I NEVER said Mormon or the Qur'an WERE the Word of God. I asked john9346 how **HE** knows John IS scripture, while Laodiceans, Mormon, and Qur'an are NOT. He must have SOME objective criterion to tell what is scripture and what isn't, but has yet to say what it is. He believes in "scripture only" and rejects church tradition, church tradition decided which books are scripture and which aren't.

You constantly shoot accusations from the hip without reading carefully what is actually said, to see if your accusations are warranted. You keep falsely accusing me of rejecting The Gospel. I do not - just the false image of me you create in your mind (by reading things between the lines I never wrote) does so.


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

I never claimd Laodiceans SHOULD be part of the bible, but I keep asking YOU why it shouldn't be in there, yet you have never provided a reasonable answer.

If you base your decision on what the book actually says, that requires human judgment to decide whether it's appropriate or not - and this is why different churches have differing ideas of whether certain books are canonical or not, e.g. Catholics accept Apocrypha while Protestants do not. Can you show any OBJECTIVE criteria that uneqivocally says one or the other? I doubt you can.

Book of Mormon and the Koran are in themselves statements that they aren't from the God of the Bible...

Then you haven't read them, as both claim that they are.


Prayer For Healing
  
john9346:

You wrote: Proove that God didn't provide a list of Books? Can you show us that Gen 1:1-2, Rev 22, and John aren't Scripture??

I can't PROVE that they aren't, by EXACTLY the same logic, you can't PROVE Laodiceans, the Book of Mormon, and the Qur'an aren't scripture either.

Surely you must have SOME criterion to decide exactly what is scripture and what isn't. I ask you again, what criteria do YOU use?

I read Laodiceans. You miss the point. If you decide whether something is scripture or not BASED ON ITS CONTENT, then you're using YOUR OWN FALLIBLE HUMAN WISDOM to decide it.



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