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Where Did Jesus Come From
David, what do you think? 1st they are with satan, 2nd, its not Sons but sons, lower case, and we have in Luke3:38 where Adam is also referred to as the son of God, again lower case.

Now Job shows the sons of God with Satan, who has already fallen coming together before the throne of God. Is that even possible for fallen humans to be able to present themselves before Gods Throne with Satan? Satan said he came from walking to and fro from the it would appear the sons of God came from there too???? How did they get there? answer is they all still had access to Gods throne UNTIL Jesus death and resurrection. Humans did not.

BUT none of the above are ever referred to as the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.

Should We Be Baptized
Also no scripture states that you receive the Holy Spirit after you are water baptized, Cornelius also being an example to us as How and in what order God works. Ephesians also makes no such claim, stating AFTER YE BELIEVE, then you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, sealed also means receiving the Holy Spirit.

What we do see is that Jesus was not SAVED after He was Baptized nor did He receive the Indwelling of the Holy Spirit at His Baptism. We do see the beginning of His ministry began then, immediately being driven into the wilderness to be tested 40 days.

So David, ....we to are also TESTED once we receive the Holy, let's hear about yours. That's the TRUE TEST if you are really saved or not.

Possessed With A Demon
Steveng, there is as much danger in separating yourself in basements and homes as in mainstream churches. There is no law or rule that if you meet in a home you are not worldly, or of a false belief system. The Amish believe such things as well, yet all their unworldliness and separation doesn't guarantee their doctrine is correct.

Churches are mission fields as well, needing LIGHT to shine there as well as anywhere.

Homeschooling children doesn't always protect from the world, or keep the world away from them. We need to function in this world, and are given the Holy Spirit to do so, not hide from it.

Should We Be Baptized
David, you don't get it. My NEW MAN is IN HIM, my old man was crucified with Christ. Galatians 2,20. 1 John also we have passed from DEATH TO LIFE. That's here and now. We live in the Resurrected Christ, the Resurrected Christ lives in us.

SCRIPTURE( Corinthians) tells me old things pass away all things become NEW. You're not a made over adam. The Gospel is not proclaiming Jesus died to make over your old adam, BUT to put that old adam to death with Christ and are raised up together with Him a NEW CREATURE. Colossians 3:1-4 also reiterate. Who ever taught you otherwise is lying. No one who lies LOVES GOD. Satan is the author of LYING and hates the Truth. Either you are a new creatutre according to GOD or you have been deceived.

Should We Be Baptized
Well,it appears David gave his own personal experience and seems to demand that his experience is the ONLY TRUTH. Yet scripture shows some young men Paul found who only had water baptism , but never heard of the Holy Spirit. Also we see Pricilla had the same encounter with Apollo,earnest as they all were had an incomplete understanding, but they before hearing the rest they too thought they were ok. ...NOT.

That's my testimony. I had only 1/2 the understanding of the Gospel, until I heard the other half....ROMANS 6-8, Romans 12:1-2. Only those crucified with Christ who DIE TO SIN, can OBEY GOD. It's all clearly spelled out right there .....You all may not like that fact, but try telling that to God.

Follow Jesus Christ Go
CLuny, I know you think you are superior because of some silly claim you all are descendants of the original apostles or something silly like that. Well, what you hold so dear is not shown in scripture to be of any relevance. I believe John Wycliffe and so may like him who were not direct descendants are just as much CHOSEN by God to spread the Gospel as any who are Gods CHOSEN. The few who are CHOSEN by God are those described in Timothy, and have obeyed the call and guidelines in Timothy, and has NOTHING to do with being any direct descendants has 100% to do with 2 Timothy 2: The entire chapter. You personally don't fit even one verse of it. 2 Timothy 2 is what MAINSTREAM CHRISTIANITY BELIEVE.

Should We Be Baptized
Also no scripture says we are saved through an obedient relationship with God. NOT OF WORKS LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST! You are boasting David. So tell us, are you saved by your first act of obedience? Or your second? Possibly third? Or just gradually saved over time? And exactly what acts of obedience earn salvation? Baptism? Communion? What? So you put the cart before the horse. Baptized first and THEN salvation will follow MAYBE? How do you know you are saved, and when you are saved or IF you are saved? Do you ever know, or do you just wait and HOPE SO, never having that assurance? Exactly what faith do you belong to? You say you are not Protestant or Catholic, not what are you? Mormon perhaps?

Should We Be Baptized
1Cor 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul, and I of Apollos, and I of Cephas, and I of Christ. 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius,15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. Here Paul is talking about in Corinth. Lydia and family the Jailer and family were all baptized after Paul preached HIS GOSPEL.

No where does Paul say baptism is not necessary. You can see it all very clearly where it is bolded, exactly WHAT Paul is trying to convey.

Possessed With A Demon
Clunky the NT is the New Covenant. The word Testament and Covenant are the same. Sorry but no one chose books to follow. If that is so, no wonder. If they did it was surely out of what was prophecied the New Covenant is. But I see you all did not do that except in only some places, and chose fables and faiy tales for the rest, and tried to take OT Priesthood issues to redefine, rather than believe they were DONE AWAY.

So you are correct, I don't care what you believe. I believe much of your doctrine is FALSE. Deal with it.

Possessed With A Demon
So much of what you say are things you all made up. No scripture teaches TRIPPLE emersion either, as if THAT is somehow superior or more just bunk.

No scripture states any water was any different or more holy than any other water. So much of your practice is based on superstition or the likes.

WhenPaul preached at Mars Hill to many listening, he actually was giving what you may think of as an alter call. And many left the Greek philosophers and followed Paul's Gospel then becoming preachers of the Gospel themselves. We don't see any sacraments or whatever having to be taken first....which is NOT in scripture.

Should We Be Baptized
I believe in the Word of God David, and don't actually feel Protestantism has anything to do with it. There were no Protestants when the NT was written nor were their Calvinist's , as some claim Paul was a Calvinist. WRONG. We acts on faith, but scripture says faith is NOT of works.

So to some FAITH is works which no scripture teaches.

Also David, no scripture teaches one is water baptized first in order to get saved. Go and read about Cornelius. He HEARD the Gospel, then believed the Holy Spirit came exactly when Peter was preaching the Gospel and then AFTER they were baptized. Again that pattern was repeated over and over we see all through out Acts. Even Paul was not water baptized first and then saved.

Should We Be Baptized
I was baptized, and would do it again and again. But I know I was born Again and received the Holy Spirit before I was Baptized. There are what seems to be 2 different types of baptisms, one where a priest says, I baptize you in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit, and another when the Pastor uses total submersion and says, BURIED WITH HIM IN BAPTISM UNTO DEATH AND RAISED UP TOGETHER WITH HIM A NEW CREATURE. Mine did the last one here. And THAT and those words are exactly what I believe Baptism of a New Believer is about. Making a public and personal testimony of your new life IN CHRIST.

God Or Jesus Miracles
Also begotten means UNIQUE, one of a kind etc. Isaac was a child of promise and was conceived when Sarah was past her years of child bearing. He was a MIRACLE CHILD. Ishmael was not. Also the Child of Promise, Isaac came with all the promises and the covenant was made to Abraham and Sarah's child, not Abraham and Hagar's child.

One could say the same concerning Jesus Christ, since we see Adam was called a son of God and so were the Angels. Yet both those were created, ONLY Jesus Christ is begotten. They were Unique yes, but were not begotten.

He was begotten when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary and Gods seed was planted in Mary's womb, bringing forth a UNIQUE one of a kind ONLY SON. A MIRACLE.

God Or Jesus Miracles
David8318, also those who do believe in a Trinity don't all have the same beliefs concerning death. The SDA, believe in a Trinity, but also believe the soul dies. So again, you may be confusing many different beliefs as all in one. Even angels cannot die, although CREATED. Jesus spirit did not die when He was made flesh, nor did it die after He was crucified. Nor did it die and come back to life, which would be called reincarnation.

TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE, also shows the man who died next to Jesus went to a place called paradise, then too called Abrahams Bosom, an endearing name for all who had the Faith of Abraham was aware of an afterlife after death.

Living Through Tribulation
Stevens, after you read Colossians 1, go and read Colossians 2 and 3. Then tell us after you read and understand why you believe the BOC, those complete in Him, those who have been crucified with Christ and raised up a New Creature, who have already suffered the afflictions of Christ, Phil 3, 1St Peter 4, just for starters who are promised we are saved from the wrath to come who are no longer in the world, but are also crucified to the world and the world to us, Galatians 6......why would we not be translated out? We are NOT Earthly Israel, where different promises are to them, concerning the Great Trib. Matthew 24-25. I Don't have to worry about running on the sabbath to hide in the you?

USA Foreign Invasion
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.

Maybe Cluny and Steveng need to rebuke God. God forbid they would rebuke Trump, and show him how God feels about these things. That would be in their eyes hate.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. It's possible some here have never experienced that in their life.

Living Through Tribulation
So will be the second coming, but not in the order many expect. The Rapture is first, then the second coming. Judas had it the multitude in John 6 also did. They wanted Jesus as KING right then and there, overthrowing Roman rule. That comes at Jesus 2nd coming, when He returns of KING OF KINGS and LORD OF LORDS. Judas and these folks had the order wrong, and put their faith in the wrong coming, which it looks like they were not saved in the end BETRAYING JESUS. Those who are banking on the Church fulfilling the promises to Israel are in jeopardy of putting their faith in something not belonging to them. So it matters WHATEVER your faith is in.

USA Foreign Invasion
God Hates Liars

Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates, seven that are an abomination to him: haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that make haste to run to evil, a false witness who breathes out lies, and one who sows discord among brothers.

Proverbs 12:22
Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.

Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

Living Through Tribulation
Monk, Camilla Parker Bowles makes you think of the large intestines? That's funny. Now BOWELS is the intestine, but I don't believe I spelled that.

Funny, it appears we both goofed here. LOL

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