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What Is Sunday A Holy Day
  
jerry6593:

You wrote: No it was not. Check the story in Acts 20, The meeting was Sat night after sundown (when the Jewish day begins), and Paul went on a long journey Sun morning at daybreak.

7. FIRST day of week, when disciples broke bread, paul preached until midnight. ...
9-10. Eutychus fell asleep, fell, and was raised.
11. They broke bread, talked a long time until daybreak, and Paul departed.

Please show the EXACT verse where it says that it mentions Saturday night in ANY context in thie chapter.

Also, if the Church accepted offerings on Sunday solely to avoid sabbath commerce, does SDA similarly forbid accepting offering on Saturday?


What Is Sunday A Holy Day
  
jerry6593:

Traditions can be good or bad. Jesus condemned Pharisee traditions BECAUSE they contradicted scripture (e.g. Korban), but Paul told his readers to hold fast the traditions they were taught. Jacob was promised Rachel, but Laban gave him Leah because it was tradition to marry the oldest first. Jacob accepted that without objection.

Church meeting on Sunday was NT church tradition: Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:2.

Ex 20:8 says nothing about HOW. Other verses prohibit work, commerce, lighting fire, or travel. If you drive to church, eat out after church, cook, clean, or flip a light switch between Friday and Saturday night, you violate Biblical sabbath law.


Super Blood Wolf Moon
  
jerry6593:

Acts 2:20 could easily describe both solar and lunar eclipses. These often occur two weeks apart. They were also fairly rare, and in primitive cultures without good knowledges of astronomy, rare astronomic phenomena were frequently interpreted as divine portents, and inspired great fear.

2:19: "And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath, blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke"

Signs in the heavens include eclipses, comets, meteors, novas, etc. Signs in the earth include earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.


What Is Sunday A Holy Day
  
jerry6593:

You wrote: Please give chapter and verse where the Bible supplants the seventh day Sabbath and institutes the first day of the week (Sunday) in its place. If you can't find it, just say so.

I think it's been generally agreed that there is no such bible verse. Cluny points to 2000 years of post-biblical Christian tradition, which you seem to think counts for nothing.

Christ kept the seventh-day Sabbath!

I had previously asked you exactly how YOU keep the Sabbath (since you think it's very important to do so), but you have yet to answer that question.


Super Blood Wolf Moon
  
Steveng:

My point was, you always condemn everyone who is a member of a denominational church. Jesus didn't come to condemn. That wasn't his job then, and isn't ours now either.

He was shown a woman taken in adultery - a capital offense, yet despite the seriousness of her crime, he did not condemn her. His criteria for condemnation was, "Let he who is free of sin throw the first stone". Shouldn't that be our criteria as well? Too many people on these blogs have their itchy trigger fingers set to "condemn now, ask questions later".

As to the blog topic, I've stated my opinion, but since nobody has actually commented on that, I see nothing further to add yet.


What Is Sunday A Holy Day
  
Nicole_Lacey:

LOL! I didn't even notice that I had made an ironic meta-comment (i.e. asking Jerry to "give it a rest" when the whole topic was about the day of rest).

He can't answer on the other two blogs about this, because they're already full - which is why he created this third one. However, since he opened the door by asking the question anyway, it gives us the right to respond in kind.


Super Blood Wolf Moon
  
Steveng:

You don't merely ask questions and ask opinions. You have also repeatedly, on many many occasions, accused all organized churches of being "false denominational churches", and condemned everyone who is a member of such churches.

KarenD has given no indication that she would accuse Jesus of being a narcissist, yet you just accused her of doing something you just pulled out of your own head! Why are you so obsessed with accusing people that you feel compelled to do it so frequently, even to the point of making things up? (You're not the only one. There are several others on these blogs who do the same.)


Super Blood Wolf Moon
  
There are blood moons (i.e. lunar eclipses) approximately twice a year. They happen twice as often as anniversaries. They have no spiritual significance per se. Yes, Revelation may mention one specific blood moon, but assuming that any specific blood moon is that particular one (without all the other signs being in place) is grasping at straws.

Doomsday prophets have been predicting the exact day of the Apocalypse for generations. All this does is to cause disappointment from their believers and ridicule from their unbelievers whenever they are proved wrong. The harmful end result is like that of The Boy Who Cried Wolf: people are so jaded about false predictions that when the REAL apocalypse happens, they will ignore the signs.


What Is Sunday A Holy Day
  
jerry6593:

There have literally been two other blogs on this subject recently. This site specifically limits topics to 75 posts to prevent discussions from being continued ad nauseam, yet we've now had over 150 on this topic. Can't we give it a rest?

Tell me, How, exactly do YOU "keep the Sabbath holy"? Jewish law was quite specific about what was forbidden - no work, no commerce, no lighting fires, no travel. If you cook dinner, or drive to church, or even flip a light switch, by old testament law, you would have to be stoned to death.


Fallen Humans Incarnation
  
john9346:

My comment about Adam + Eve was just common sense. I have repeatedly asked YOU how can explain how they would be expected to know that God was right and the Serpent was wrong, yet you have never answered this. I'm still waiting.

Readers join me and praying that Strongaxe comes to know the God of Holy Scripture the God he so flamboyantly denies...

How sanctimonious of you! I have "known the God of Holy Scripture" since 1976, and I have never "flamboyantly denied" him, as you erroneously claim.


Is Jesus God
  
David8318:

What Constantine said was irrelevant, as no Christians today consider Constantine's words to be authoritative teachings on doctrine and belief, nor infallibly correct.

Jehovah's Witnesses' beliefs derive from Miller. Should we codemn all JWs alive today because Miller made false prophecies in 1843-1844? Only if they hold fast to him, despite his errors.

You deny the death of Jesus Christ and you deny the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

That is a lie. You just make one faulty inference, and follow that inference to a faulty conclusion. Show ONE SINGLE person on these blogs (whom you have been speaking with), or trinitarian Christian church that TEACHES Jesus did not die, or was not resurrected.


Is Jesus God
  
David8318:

Saying "well, you do it too" doesn't make your hands clean - it says "your hands are as dirty as mine".

My father was born in Europe in 1915, yet his life expectancy was almost 102 years.

I was talking about PROPHESYING. Saying "We look for Jesus' coming" is fine and expected. Saying "Jesus will definitely return in 1914" was NOT fine. That is called false prophecy, which is universally condemned in both old and new testaments.

Which trinitarians have "prophesied war and destruction"? In particular, which trinitarians who claim to speak for all trinitarians, and thus assume the mantle of prophets, as the Watchtower Society does?


Is Jesus God
  

David8318:

If you TRULY believed what the Bible teaches, you would not feel the need to add words to it that aren't actually there in order to correct its message.

The Bible says if a prophet speaks in Jehovah's name, but what he says does not come to pass, that prophet is not speaking for Jehovah, and one should not listen to that prophet. Furthermore, such a prophet should be stoned to death.

The Watchtower Society has prophesied time and again that Jesus would return in this year and that, and was proven wrong EVERY SINGLE TIME. If you TRULY believed what the Bible teaches, you would leave the Watchtower Society (Revelation 18:4) that is a false prophet by its very own teachings.


Is Jesus God
  
Melody:

I am trying to prove JW doctrine is based on twisting scripture.


David8318:

What I'm confused about is JW teaching Jesus both is and is not an angel.

You wrote: I agree, it's deceitful of trinitarians to insert words into the Bible to push pagan Constantine's trinity dogma, eg. at 1 John 5:7.

It's JUST AS DECEITFUL for JWs to insert words into the Bible to push their NON-trinity dogma. Pot, kettle, black.

By what stretch of the imagination is NWT use of "other" "legitimate"? It is implied by neither grammar nor context. The ONLY reason to insert it is to preserve the notion that Jesus was a created being, absolutely essential to JW doctrine.


Fallen Humans Incarnation
  
Steveng:

Instead of mocking what I said, why not actually refute it, point by point. Which of these is incorrect, and why? Be specific.
1) Jesus was "the lamb slain from the foundation of the world"
2) So God knew, before Adam was created, that he would fall
3) And he knew the Fall would condemn most of mankind to hell
4) Knowing this, he still put Adam to the test, knowing he would fail and billions would be lost as a result.

He only saves those who have a loving heart

Exactly. Which means that he's totally willing to have everyone else (i.e. the majority of mankind) go to hell. Which is billions of people. He creates billions of people, knowing in advance that most of them will burn.


Is Jesus God
  
David8318:

You wrote: Jesus was not an angel neither was he God!

Now I'm confused - I thought Jehovah's Witnesses taught that Jesus WAS an angel - the Archangel Michael. Did that change some time in the past 40 years when I wasn't looking?

Which is more than can be said for trinitarian inserted words (eg.1 Jo.5:7 et al).

That is EXACTLY what can be said for JW inserted words in Colossians 1:15-16.


Fallen Humans Incarnation
  
Steveng:

You wrote: You have got to be kidding!

No, sadly, I'm not. If you have any VALID arguments to refute the conclusion my last message, I would love to hear them. And I'm not kidding in that either. I would REALLY love to hear them, because I find those implications deeply troubling.

God knew, before he created Adam, or that he even created the world, that Adam would fall, and that as a result, billions of souls would be lost - yet he continued with creation anyway, so he must have thought that it was worth doing so, despite this terrible cost.


Is Jesus God
  
David8318:

Jews believed the Name of God was holy, and the Ten Commandments prohibit taking his name in vain. Thus, the Jews never pronounced it, ecept the High Priest, on Yom Kippur, in the Holy of Holies.

To read scripture, whenever they saw YHWH, they euphemized it by saying "Lord" or "God", even though they knew what it stood for. To this day, Jews write "G-d" to avoid explicitly writing "God" name, even though they know what they mean.

KJV preserves this by showing all euphemized instances of YHVH in small caps, so the original is not forgotten. NWT used to at least show inserted words in [brackets], but no longer does so.


Fallen Humans Incarnation
  
Steveng:

You wrote: Did God know from the beginning when He created Adam that he will disobey Him?

Yes, because long before God even created Adam, or even the earth, he knew Jesus would have to die for the sins of man:

Revelation 13:8:
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

God gave man free will. He doesn't want anyone to perish. II Peter 3:9

God is omnipotent, so he COULD save anyone he wants. Despite this, the way is narrow, and few find it. Some part of God's Great Plan for the Universe is so important, it's worth the souls of billions people being lost to carry it out.


Is Jesus God
  
David8318:

I didn't quote John to prove my point, but you quoted Colossians to prove yours.

Note that Trinitarians don't insert words that aren't there into John 1:1, as JWs do on Colossians.

Using "other" (Gr.word panta allows for) completely removes the pagan trinity from scripture.

Your very wording belies your purpose. Nobody should be "removing" anything from Scripture, period.



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