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What Is Your Truth
  
mike:

You wrote: strongaxe sabbatarians did NOT say that. the bible said it.

Please show me EXACTLY where in the Bible (chapter and verse) where it says "Thou shalt worship on the Sabbath only" or "Thou shalt not worship on any day other than the Sabbath".

AGAIN, I do NOT judge sabbatarians for worshiping on the Sabbath. They are free to worship whenever they please. I object to those who judge others based on what day they worship. I know that this isn't all of them, e.g. Samuelbb7 isn't one.

AGAIN, Please tell me what YOU think Paul meant in Colossians 2:16 and Romans 14:5.


What Is Your Truth
  
mike:

No, I don't. Sabbatarians say "You MUST worship on Saturday, because worshiping on any other day is blasphemous". No, it isn't. NOWHERE in the Bible is there a commandment "On one day shalt thou worship, and thou art forbidden to worship on any other day". Also, nothwere in the Bible does it say that "keeping one day holy" has anything to do with worship.

I have no problem with people who choose to worship on Sunday, or Saturday, or Wednesday, or every day. The only ones I have a problem with those who tell everyone else "Our way of worship is right, and yours is wrong". Sadly, all too many Sabbatarians fit into that category.

How do YOU interpret what Paul said there?


Bill Gates Required Microchip
  
Steveng:

You wrote: The bible also says not to bear false witness of which you and Kathr do quite a bit of it yourselves.

Please show exactly where and when I bore false witness. Date and quote.

I asked you repeatedly to show a specific date and quote where Bill Gates "admitted that the purpose of the lockdown is to keep people from naturally catching CoVid-19 so that he can introduce his microchip to be required by all people to participate in society." All you said is it's somewhere in one of his speeches in the past four years.

If you accuse someone, it is up to YOU to back that accusation up with easily verifiable evidence, not "go search that haystack over there".


James Robison Ski House
  
"Prosperity gospel" preachers tell you to give until it hurts, not pay bills, and "trust God". THEY don't do that. THEY don't give till it hurts. THEY don't trust God. THEY don't live humbly and cheaply. They constantly passive/aggressively coerce YOU for money, like "I need you to send money so I don't go bankrupt" (Jim Bakker) or "If I don't raise $8 million by March, God will call me home" (Oral Roberts). THEY don't practice what they preach - or what Jesus preached ("It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God).

Doctors may not be Christians, so you can't expect them to follow what Jesus taught - but preachers SHOULD be.


Bill Gates Required Microchip
  
Steveng:

Two kinds of theories:
1) Those backed up with evidence easily verified by anyone.
2) Those that lack evidence. Conspiracy theories. The Bible calls it Gossip.

You complain about people brainwashed by news media etc. while you are brainwashed by Facebook and paranoid right-wing conspiracy theorists. Pot, kettle, black.

You CLAIM governments throughout the world want to arrest Gates, but where is your PROOF? Politifact debunked Russian propaganda about Italy. Snopes debunked story about Germany.

You accuse Fauci of profiting from vaccines (a lie debunked by Politifact on Apr. 15) yet say nothing about Trump pushing hydrochloroquine because he owns stock in a company that makes it.


What Is Your Truth
  
mike:

Note the scripture I quoted does not use the words "holy", "sanctified", or "blessed" at all. You read things into scripture that are not there. What do YOU think that passage means?

Here is another: Colossians 2:16-17:
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.


All of those ritual laws applied to those subject to the Law of Moses, not to those who are in Christ. We are not under the Law.

You VIOLATE SCRIPTURE if you judge me on how I treat the Sabbath, and I violate scripture if I let you do so.


What Is Your Truth
  
David:

Instead of answering what YOU think Paul's words mean, you answered that you don't agree with "how Paul is taught". Taught by whom, exactly? Obviously not by those to taught you, because you do agree with THEM.

Please be specific about just what "is taught" about Paul that you disagree with. And please, do clarify what YOU think Paul's "we are not under the law" actually means.

The Bible specifically defines "Antichrist" in 1 John 2:22 (denies the Father and the Son), 4:3 and 2 John 1:7 (confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh) - opposing Jesus' existence, not his teachings.

When one makes assumptions about what others believe, one often assumes incorrectly.


What Is Your Truth
  
David:

I didn't say Paul's words are MORE important than those of Jesus. However, any Christian who acknowledges the Bible as the Word of God (rather than just cherry picking those parts that he happens to like) has to acknowledge that BOTH Jesus' and Paul's words in the Bible, and that BOTH of them are the Word of God.

Why didn't other Bible authors quote Paul? Because Paul wrote his words decades after Jesus was alive, and fewer people had heard Paul's.

Again, What do YOU think Paul's words "We are not under the law" mean, and do you disagree with them, and if so, why?


Coronavirus And Christians
  
Steveng:

Do you have any ACTUAL statistics, or is this yet another rumor you belief without proof?

There are TONS of conspiracy theories. Most are FALSE. Alex Jones is a master of them. He pushed a lie that Hillary Clinton ran a child trafficking ring out of the basement of a Washington pizza parlor (that has no basement). A man shot the place up, and almost got people killed. He claimed grieving parents of Sandy Hook shooting victims were "paid crisis actors" and nobody was shot. Parents sued him for defamation.

He ADMITTED he made up lies JUST for ratings. Many right-wing Christians love a man who DELIBERATELY bears false witness for money. The Bible condemns gossip, yet you revel in it.


What Is Your Truth
  
mike:

Individual commandments are needed for those who don't understand how things work. You tell children not to run into traffic, or stick forks into outlets, or touch hot stoves, or drink bleach. Adults know better, without needing to be told.

Immature people who don't consider others NEED to be told not to steal, but Christians who truly love their neighbor won't even CONSIDER stealing, because they KNOW it's intrinsically wrong without needing to be told.

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Unfortunately, many Sabbatarians try to guilt others who don't esteem Saturday above other days.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
Steveng:

Natural News is a far-right conspiracy theory and fake news site. If you take that site seriously, that explains a lot. One web site making claims is not evidence. Neither is one parliament member demanding arrest.

The site's founder, Michael Adams, called for violence against proponents of GMO foods. Check the Wikipedia article for many (not just one) accusations against him, with 54 links to back them up.

He promoted a homeopathic treatment for Ebola, which he took down after cricitism. (If it was true, why did he retract it? Because it wasn't true.)

Seek news that is actually true and verifiable, not just that happens to fit with your own prejudices.


What Is Your Truth
  
mike:

I am NOT preaching a license to sin! I NEVER said "go steal". I said if you love your neighbor, you will ALREADY NOT STEAL without needing to be told "don't steal".

If you love your neighbor, you don't NEED to be told not to lie, cheat, steal, or kill. "Don't do this! Don't do that!" are necessary for children who don't understand deeper principles. Adults no longer need them. You tell children to look both ways before crossing the street, and not to put forks in electrical outlets. Adults automatically know better.

I can't speak for pastors. Tithes were to support the tribe of Levi, who were forbidden to own land. That does not apply to us, as we have no Levites maintaining the temple.


What Is Your Truth
  
David:

You asked: Mike So you believe have been given immunity, a license to sin.

Mike quoted Paul's SPECIFIC words "we are not under the law but under grace". What do YOU think they mean?

Paul dismissed your incorrect conclusion in Romans 6:1-2:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid! How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The law gives many specific commandments: Don't steal! Don't murder! Don't covet! Don't commit perjury!

Grace gives one principle: Love your neighbor as your self, which makes all those commandments unnecessary - you'll do them, and WANT to do them, without needing to be told.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
I have been hearing this kind of panicky rhetoric for decades:

"Christians! Fear credit cards, because they are the Mark of the Beast!"
"Christians! Fear UPCs, because they are the Mark of the Beast!"
"Christians! Fear RFID chips, because they are the Mark of the Beast!"
"Christians! Fear vaccines, because they are the Mark of the Beast!"

The voice changes, the word changes, but the histrionics stay the same, and they are rubbish. Yes, we should be vigilant, but we should NOT be afraid.

2 Timothy 1:7:
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
barb:

Steveng started the blog "Bill Gates Required Microchip":
Bill Gates (a eugenicist like his father before him who, by the way, headed Planned Parenthood) admitted that the purpose of the lockdown is to keep people from naturally catching CoVid-19 so that he can introduce his microchip to be required by all people to participate in society. Your thoughts?

He then dragged that inaccurate premise here. Gates Sr. did NOT "head Planned Parenthood". Steveng has yet to show ANYWHERE where Gates admitted his microchip would be "required" by all to participate in society, other than vaguely alluding to it being in one of his talks over the past 4 years. Steveng constantly rails against vaccines.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
"barb":

Kathr and I are NOT the same. She and I agree on some things, and disagree on others. Both of us have been commenting here for many years. It's possible for two people to share some ideas without being being clones or sock puppets.

I found the NP article. What such chips do is regulate dispensing maintenance drugs in a way that can be controlled externally. Also, birth control is OPTIONAL - something women MAY use IF they want. NOBODY forces them (except China).

This has NOTHING to do with vaccination. Vaccines are NOT maintenance drugs. They are administered once (or a couple of times), and then that's it. There is NOTHING here about mandatory use of implants to control people.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
Steveng:

1. Bereans searched scriptures "to see if this were so", as ALL scripture is beneficial. I doubt you would say the same about Gates's speeches. I have neither time nor inclination to find and listen to four years of them to find one needle in a haystack. That is NOT how this ever works, anywhere.

If you accuse someone of an offense, the burden is on YOU to provide specific proof of that offense, and not demand that others search for it.

2. Yet again, your message said vaccines, but NOTHING ABOUT MICROCHIPS.

3. If you forefeit your right to vote, you forefeit moral high ground to complain about who gets elected - it's your fault they did.


Coronavirus And Christians
  
Steveng:

I don't expect an immediate answer, but when a discussion goes on for several months, and you comment frequently, but only with vague "listen to his talks" without naming a specific one, or show exact words he used, one has to wonder why.

To defend a Biblical or legal doctrine, name BCV or cite the law or case, not "it's in the Bible or law book somewhere, look it up".

30 year of corruption, 16 D and 14 R? Trump obstructs every attempt at transparency. He is REMOVING oversight. He's not erasing corruption, he's letting it happen more freely without accountability.

Did YOU pray for Obama instead of bashing HIM? If not, pot, kettle, black.


Will You Take Covid-19 Vaccine
  
Steveng:

I don't believe they can pass a law to force people to have medical procedures against their will, as that would violate civil liberties. But they can pass laws preventing people who are health hazards from being in public places (like schools, stores, restaurants, buses) and pose a risk to others.

Every society has rules. If you don't want to follow those rules, you're free to not do so, but you have to go somewhere else. Schools and government buildings say "no firearms allowed". Restaurants say "no shirt, no shoes, no service", and some require tie and jacket. Theaters don't let you bring your own snacks. Churches don't let you swear. "Let each be persuaded in his own mind."



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