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Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav
As I see it, you are on a firm foundation and what you believe is firmly backed by the bible. But I also see many verses which directly support the idea of Gentile Salvation, which you appear to reject.

How do you see those passages?
For example, I see a clear delineation in (Revelation 7) between the complete restoration of the twelve tribes and....the great multitude in verse 9.

"a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations and kindreds and people and tongues, stood before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and with palms in their hands."

Who does this multitude represent?


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
"But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. "Later the others also came. Lord, Lord, they said, open the door for us! But he replied, Truly I tell you, I dont know you.
(Matthew 25:10-12)


Trav
If Jesus closes the door, and says," I do not know you", that's not a good thing, is it? Just trying to keep you in check my friend, as you do with me.

The parable simply differentiates between the Wise virgins, those led by the Holy Spirit, and the Foolish virgins, those who put their trust in the false teachers (Oil Merchants), who want to sell you the oil for your lamp.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
The divorced house of 10. To be rejoined, 10 virgins, bridegroom etc.
---Trav


Trav
Interesting, You believe the Ten Virgins (Matthew 25), are the 10 tribes. Does this mean Five of the Ten will be condemned, as in the parable?


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
But the CLEANSING is done by the BLOOD OF JESUS as we submit to Him.---kathr4453

Thats what the false doctrine teaches, and with their brand of submission.

My Lords disciples taught this.. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
(1 John 1:9)


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Corinthians 7:1)


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
So I ask again Where does this cleansing take place?

And so many of you believe that once you die, you go directly to Heaven, scripture tell us we have to go thru fire before we go with Jesus.
---Ruben on 7/27/21


Great point Ruben.
I have tried for many years to get this across to folks, but they reject it because their houses are built on a different foundation. I do not say this to be critical of them, but as an observation.

Bottom line, which also took me many to understand, they believe salvation is their decision, it is not Gods. Cleansing and obedience is Gods requirement for salvation, but if they believe its their decision to be saved, the requirement is removed.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
I never said "obedience is not required". I said that we aren't SAVED by obedience. These are two totally different things.
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
You say many things without realizing what you are actually saying. Though you dont actually say them, they are easy to extrapolate from what you have said.

For example your quote above.
You infer, freedom from sin is obtained through obedience to righteousness. Then you say, obedience does not save you, when salvation is exactly that, being freed from sin. This is how you know when you have been born again.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
(Romans 6:16) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

StrongAxe
We were all born slaves of sin. Paul says above, obedience to righteousness will cause us to become slaves of righteousness.

You claim to be a slave of righteousness, and yet you say obedience is not required to be a slave of righteousness. How did you become a slave of righteousness without obedience?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
In case you didnt understand, my last comment was the answer to your question about how Works plays a role in salvation.

Now my question for you. In the passage below, does Paul say it is obedience which frees us from sin, Yes or No?

(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

If you answer it honestly, you will See..Paul is teaching what I am teaching.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
Why did Paul teach, God will reward Goods Works with Eternal Life in (Romans 2: 5-13). Notice, this teaching contradicts Pauls teaching of, Not by Works, but by Grace.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?
The answer is in what motivates our obedience. We do not live in obedience to God because we want to be saved, we live in obedience to God, because we Love Him.

Jesus taught this (John 14:21), Paul taught this, and all of the Lords disciples taught this. If I am rebuked because I teach what they taught, do you not rebuke them too?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
I answered your question, but you didnt answer mine. Answer mine, then I will answer yours.

Salvation, In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?
---David on 7/16/21


Samuel
I just noticed your question. What denomination am I? I just call myself a follower of Jesus Christ, like they do in the Bible. Do you see any of the doctrines you mentioned in the Bible?

The reason you dont see them, is because these man made doctrines cause division. If everyone simply called themselves a follower of Christ, would there be this division in the church?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
God chooses who will be saved. This decision is made through our obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, those which we receive through the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Our hearts are changed, changed through our obedience to the Lords commandments.

His commandments are not difficult to keep. God wanted to give mankind laws, laws every man can keep, so they have no excuse.
Every commandment given to us though the Holy Spirit, is done out of our Love. But, you must be in the light to receive these commandments. And this is why I advocate daily confession of sin.

If you have two coats, is it difficult to give one to someone who doesnt have a coat?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
You almost got it, but understandably you have it a bit sideways. It is Our loving obedience to God which leads us to sinlessness. It is our continuous love for God, which causes the death of the Old Man.

(Romans 6:16) Know you not that to whomever you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you become whom you obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness


(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
When the few argue against the many, and you can only answer one or two questions, then get many more questions, its very hard to answer all of them.

Here is your answer,
The letter was not written to Christians, who had been saved, it was written to those who are being saved, those who have not been born of God. It was written to the many who are called, those who have not yet been chosen.

The protestants believe it is their decision to be saved, not Gods. In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
Yes to the first question
No to the second.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is why I believe so many who believe they follow Christ, actually follow the doctrine of demons. Because of this one unpardonable sin, God has closed your eyes to the Truth.

This is the power of the Yes and No questions, and why I ask them. Because when they are answered truthfully, with a simple yes or no and nothing more, the veil is removed and Satan is kept at bay, so you can see the Truth.

Here is a test question, to illustrate.
Do you serve God when you sin? Yes or No?
Remember, anything more comes from the evil one.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
Yes, I believe Trav is wrong on this point. But his belief does not fall into the category of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as does yours.

According to what you believe and teach, those who have been born of Gods Holy Spirit, will sin, after after they have been born of the seed of God. This is full blown Blasphemy against Gods Holy Spirit.

When Trav blasphemes the Holy Spirit, then he will receive my rebuke.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
You finally got it!! I Couldnt be happier for you. It is those who are born of sin who commit sin, and those who are born of God, who do not commit sin. And this is exactly why one must be born again.

For those who have not been born of God, will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was very clear on this point. Sin is a sign, a sign for those who have not been born of the Spirit. An Obvious sign, yet many ignore it, claiming they have been born of the Holy Spirit.

When they make this claim, they are saying the seed of which they have been born, is evil, for sin is evil. This is what Jesus called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Does this sin exclude, those who do it in ignorance, from being born again? No!


What Is The Gospel
  
I was indocd like them in my youth. Trav

Trav
I was raised Protestant, but outside of baptism, never really followed or understood the salvation part of the doctrine. I simply trusted in the wisdom of my teachers.

I wasnt a teacher, just a student. And because I saw myself only as a student, I continued to seek the Truth and found my way. I have turned many away from false doctrines, but I have never turned one of the teachers.

We can not show them the truth, they must seek it on their own. For when you see yourself as the teacher, and not Jesus Christ, whatever you teach becomes your truth.


What Is The Gospel
  
2Th 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:---Trav

Trav
Thank you for the reminder my friend. For we must remind ourselves of this passage when dealing with folks under these delusions. When people, can not see their doctrines are the complete opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ, you know it is a Strong Delusion.

At first I argued against them in the hope they would turn, but when I realized they were against Christ, I am here to simply to open the eyes of those folks who are still on the fence.

My question to you is this. When God creates this delusion, Do you believe he has given up on folks like Kathrine and StrongAxe, Or can the delusion be removed?



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