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Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
David:

Trav keeps insisting that the scriptures about "All Israel being saved" have already been fulfilled, despite clear evidence to the contrary. How is this a "firm biblical foundation"?


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

Who are these "1000 witnesses"? Be specific.

Yes, prophecies of Christ's birth and death were fulfilled, but that says nothing about all other prophecies being fulfilled too. Many OT prophecies remain unfulfilled. I showed a few of them from Zechariah, that deal with when the Lord will return, THEN all Israel will acknowledge him and mourn as for a firstborn, and he will crush their enemies - which has not happened yet. You have never addressed those. Why not? How do you explain these?

One reason the Jews rejected Jesus was they expected him to fulfill all of those prophecies (suffering servant AND conquering king) during one trip, and they rejected him when the latter didn't happen.


Most Important Book In NT
  
This is not a simple question with a one-word answer. Each of them has a purpose, and which one would be most important would depend on what you're looking for in particular at the time.

A gospel that ties Jesus in with OT prophecy? Matthew. The simplest story of Jesus' life? Mark. A good historical perspective? Luke. Jesus' spiritual teachings? John. History of the early NT church? Acts. The gospel explained for gentiles? Romans. The gospel explained for Jews? Hebrews. A description of the end times? Revelation.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

You quoting scriptures, but never PROVEN they were fulfilled. It is easy to prove some of them have NOT.

Romans 11:26 was NOT yet been fulfilled, as NOT all Israel was saved. He has NOT turned ungodliness from Jacob. As long as one person from ANY tribe of Israel is ungodly, this hasn't happened yet.

I alread showned Zechariah 12-14 talk of a time when Jesus would return, set foot on Mount of Olives, it would split in, *THEN* all Israel would recognize him, and mourn as for a firstborn. *THEN* he would destroy all their enemies. These are all in the future, and that is when Romans 11:26 will happen.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

I judge what you SAY in light of scripture, not YOU as a person. We are told to show discernment, which means judgment. I.e. we are supposed to judge THINGS and IDEAS, not PEOPLE - which you do constantly using pejorative terms like "attack sheep".

You post scriptures about Israel, but ignore that NOT all prophecies about Israel were fulfilled yet. While Jesus was alive, he WAS only sent to "lost sheep of the house of Israel" - but after his death, he sent his disciples to "all nations", because Israel rejected him.

He often told parables like the Wedding Feast one, where the groom sent invitations to his friends, but when they made excuses, he later invited everyone else.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

YOU are the one judging ME an "attack sheep".

I never attacked SCRIPTURE, just YOUR INTERPRETATION of it. These are two different things. It is extremely presumptuous to assume YOUR intepretation of scripture is correct and everyone else's is wrong. Cults do this.

They have laws in their heart, if you remember that lesson.

Zechariah 14:4: The Lord will stand on the Mount of Olives, and it will split in half

and 12:9-10: God will destroy all nations that come against Israel, and pour out a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on "me whom they have pierced" and mourn for him as a firsborn son.

These are all prophecies of the FUTURE that have not happened yet.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

You wrote: I post for Sheep, Lost Sheep. Your non-bleeting replies have a bite to them.

Who made YOU the judge of who are sheep and who isn't? Jesus said "Judge NOT".

My House of Israel Cards carry a scripture on each card. Endorsed by GOD. This house stands all the way to the end.

What "My House of Israel Cards"? No scriptures mention "cards", nor that are endorsed by God. Once again, you pull nonsense out of thin air.

Yes, Jeremiah talks about families being cast off. It's sheer arrogance to presume others are part of the cast-offs while you are not.

Yet you STILL haven't shown ANY proof the "Nth House" accepted Jesus. We're still waiting.


Finish It Here July 27 2021
  
Trav:

You wrote: It has been posted continually you have not seen or heard it.
Isa 53:1 ... Isa 53:6 ... Joh 10:26 ...


I've seen them, but they don't say anything about what you claim they do. Isaiah 53 is a prophecy of the suffering servant. It says nothing about any "Nth house" accepting him. In fact, there is nothing in this chapter about ANYONE accepting him. 53:1 is a rhetorical question. The other two verses you quoted talk about people NOT believing them, not about anyone believing him.

Yet again, you're totally fabricating facts out of thin air, and then building a doctrinal house of cards around them.

Please post something that talks about a "Nth house" ACTUALLY accepting Christ.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Ruben:

You asked: So where will our works go thru fire?

Hebrews 9:27 says:
"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment"

We live our lives, and once we die, our lives are judged by God.

There are many places in scripture that talk about people being rewarded according to their works. (One's works cannot be properly judged until they are complete.)

Matthew 16:27
"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels, and then he shall reward every man according to his works."

Also Jeremiah 25:14, Proverbs 24:12, 2 Corinthians 11:15, Revelation 2:23, Revelation 20:12-13


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
David:

Extrapolation can sometimes be dangerous, as it relies on subjective thinking, which may be wrong. Many (including some here) are like Superman, leaping over tall buildings to incorrect conclusions. Many cults result from one person extrapolating an entire bizarre theology by incorrectly extrapolating one verse.

You have it reversed. Obedience doesn't free us from sin. Freedom from slavery to sin enables us to obey.

1 Corinthians 3:8-15 talks about our works being judged by fire.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

I.e. people who are saved, yet their disobedient works are destroyed by fire.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
David:

You wrote: and yet you say obedience is not required to be a slave of righteousness. How did you become a slave of righteousness without obedience?

I don't understand why you (and Trav) keep putting words in my mouth that I never said.

I never said "obedience is not required". I said that we aren't SAVED by obedience. These are two totally different things.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
David:

As I have said earlier, when we are saved, we are freed from SLAVERY to sin. Sin no longer RULES our lives. This does not mean that we are incapable of it, just that we're no longer bound by it. Per 1 John 1, if we do occasionally sin, God forgives us. This does not mean that we should sin habitually (Paul dealt with this elsewhere, and sadly, there are many Christians that don't get this, feeling free to sin as they please, and using prayer and confession as a magic "get out of consequences and guilt free" card to let them get away with anything.)


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Trav:

We were talking about Paul's conversion, so I would have expected that with your abundant knowledge of scripture, you would have the sense to read the part of Acts that actually deals with that, but I guess I needed to be more specific. Sigh. Acts 9.

Act 1:16Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, - - -
One doesnt have to go very far in acts to find who is being spoke too.


OT scripture was written by and about and to descendents of Israel. Acts 1:16 SPECIFICALLY referred to Pentecost, as only Jesus' apostles and other disciples were present (who were mostly, if not all, Jews).

You have NEVER posted ANY scripture that shows that the "Nth house" accepted Jesus.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
David:

By rejecting anyone who is in a denomination, by saying that your way of following Christ is better than theirs, aren't YOU guilty of exactly the same kind of "dividing Christ" that you accuse them of?

To your question: God chooses whom to call to him, but they have the choice whether to accept or reject that call.


Trav:

Read Acts. Saul actively opposed the church. He only stopped because Jesus literally used divine intervention to tell him to stop. Yes, Saul had to agree, but he didn't have much choice. Most of us don't receive as personal an "invitation".


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
David:

You wrote: God chooses who will be saved. This decision is made through our obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, those which we receive through the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Our hearts are changed, changed through our obedience to the Lords commandments.

God chooses to save us because we keep his commandments? Because we deserve to be saved? This is basically just salvation by works. Paul very specically rejected this:

Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast


In particular, Paul himself specifically opposed Christ. Jesus had to drag him in, kicking and screaming.


What Is The Gospel
  
Trav:

You wrote: Clinton, Barry soetoro and Biden. Three recent rejects.

I wrote: When have Obama and Biden committed adultery, or worshiped other gods?

You wrote: you show you are biased to what you prefer rather than truth. ... Who you defend and promote is where you stand.

I asked you point blank, and you quoted my question, then totally ignored it. I wasn't promoting anyone. I was challenging the accusation you, yourself made. I showed how the shoe fits Trump. Can you show how it fits anyone else? Facts, not rhetoric. Again, rejected HOW?

Show SPECIFICALLY where I "call evil good and make excuses for it". Show my EXACT words. Again, false witness.


Do Unsaved Live Forever
  
Trav:

I have no "doctrinal preference", just what scripture says, and does not say. SHOW your "evidence".

I NEVER refused to admit that there were 12 tribes or two houses. You keep twisting what I say into things I never said. What I *DID* say was that by the New Testament, the terms "Jews" was often used **by Jesus and the Apostles** as a synonym for all of Israel, because at that point, there were just three tribes together (Judah, Benjamin, and Levi), and the other 9 had disappeared without a trace after the Babylonian exile, and those three tribes were all that were left.

There is NO evidence whatsoever that the northern tribes somehow magically re-surfaced as some other nation.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Ruben:

"Confessing" a sin means to openly declare that you have committed the sin. Penitents who are truly sorry for committing the sin repent and confess. Proud, boastful, and arrogant sinners also openly declare that they committed the sin, so that could also be considered "confession", but they do it out of pride, not repentance.

What counts is repentance - i.e. regret that one has committed the sin, and the desire to stop doing so.


David:

Incorrect. Carefully read how 1+2+3 John and Jude were addressed. These are all letters written to *existing* churches, not to new converts.



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