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Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
I never said "obedience is not required". I said that we aren't SAVED by obedience. These are two totally different things.
---StrongAxe


StrongAxe
You say many things without realizing what you are actually saying. Though you dont actually say them, they are easy to extrapolate from what you have said.

For example your quote above.
You infer, freedom from sin is obtained through obedience to righteousness. Then you say, obedience does not save you, when salvation is exactly that, being freed from sin. This is how you know when you have been born again.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
(Romans 6:16) Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

StrongAxe
We were all born slaves of sin. Paul says above, obedience to righteousness will cause us to become slaves of righteousness.

You claim to be a slave of righteousness, and yet you say obedience is not required to be a slave of righteousness. How did you become a slave of righteousness without obedience?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
In case you didnt understand, my last comment was the answer to your question about how Works plays a role in salvation.

Now my question for you. In the passage below, does Paul say it is obedience which frees us from sin, Yes or No?

(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

If you answer it honestly, you will See..Paul is teaching what I am teaching.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
Why did Paul teach, God will reward Goods Works with Eternal Life in (Romans 2: 5-13). Notice, this teaching contradicts Pauls teaching of, Not by Works, but by Grace.

So how do we reconcile this contradiction?
The answer is in what motivates our obedience. We do not live in obedience to God because we want to be saved, we live in obedience to God, because we Love Him.

Jesus taught this (John 14:21), Paul taught this, and all of the Lords disciples taught this. If I am rebuked because I teach what they taught, do you not rebuke them too?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
I answered your question, but you didnt answer mine. Answer mine, then I will answer yours.

Salvation, In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?
---David on 7/16/21


Samuel
I just noticed your question. What denomination am I? I just call myself a follower of Jesus Christ, like they do in the Bible. Do you see any of the doctrines you mentioned in the Bible?

The reason you dont see them, is because these man made doctrines cause division. If everyone simply called themselves a follower of Christ, would there be this division in the church?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
God chooses who will be saved. This decision is made through our obedience to the teachings of Jesus Christ, those which we receive through the Gift of the Holy Spirit. Our hearts are changed, changed through our obedience to the Lords commandments.

His commandments are not difficult to keep. God wanted to give mankind laws, laws every man can keep, so they have no excuse.
Every commandment given to us though the Holy Spirit, is done out of our Love. But, you must be in the light to receive these commandments. And this is why I advocate daily confession of sin.

If you have two coats, is it difficult to give one to someone who doesnt have a coat?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
You almost got it, but understandably you have it a bit sideways. It is Our loving obedience to God which leads us to sinlessness. It is our continuous love for God, which causes the death of the Old Man.

(Romans 6:16) Know you not that to whomever you yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants you become whom you obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness


(Romans 6:17-18) But God be thanked that though ye were the servants of sin, now ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
When the few argue against the many, and you can only answer one or two questions, then get many more questions, its very hard to answer all of them.

Here is your answer,
The letter was not written to Christians, who had been saved, it was written to those who are being saved, those who have not been born of God. It was written to the many who are called, those who have not yet been chosen.

The protestants believe it is their decision to be saved, not Gods. In your church, do you believe it is Gods choice, or your decision?


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
StrongAxe
Yes to the first question
No to the second.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is why I believe so many who believe they follow Christ, actually follow the doctrine of demons. Because of this one unpardonable sin, God has closed your eyes to the Truth.

This is the power of the Yes and No questions, and why I ask them. Because when they are answered truthfully, with a simple yes or no and nothing more, the veil is removed and Satan is kept at bay, so you can see the Truth.

Here is a test question, to illustrate.
Do you serve God when you sin? Yes or No?
Remember, anything more comes from the evil one.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
Yes, I believe Trav is wrong on this point. But his belief does not fall into the category of Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, as does yours.

According to what you believe and teach, those who have been born of Gods Holy Spirit, will sin, after after they have been born of the seed of God. This is full blown Blasphemy against Gods Holy Spirit.

When Trav blasphemes the Holy Spirit, then he will receive my rebuke.


Who Are The Children Of Promise
  
Kathrine
You finally got it!! I Couldnt be happier for you. It is those who are born of sin who commit sin, and those who are born of God, who do not commit sin. And this is exactly why one must be born again.

For those who have not been born of God, will not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus was very clear on this point. Sin is a sign, a sign for those who have not been born of the Spirit. An Obvious sign, yet many ignore it, claiming they have been born of the Holy Spirit.

When they make this claim, they are saying the seed of which they have been born, is evil, for sin is evil. This is what Jesus called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Does this sin exclude, those who do it in ignorance, from being born again? No!


What Is The Gospel
  
I was indocd like them in my youth. Trav

Trav
I was raised Protestant, but outside of baptism, never really followed or understood the salvation part of the doctrine. I simply trusted in the wisdom of my teachers.

I wasnt a teacher, just a student. And because I saw myself only as a student, I continued to seek the Truth and found my way. I have turned many away from false doctrines, but I have never turned one of the teachers.

We can not show them the truth, they must seek it on their own. For when you see yourself as the teacher, and not Jesus Christ, whatever you teach becomes your truth.


What Is The Gospel
  
2Th 2:11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:---Trav

Trav
Thank you for the reminder my friend. For we must remind ourselves of this passage when dealing with folks under these delusions. When people, can not see their doctrines are the complete opposite of the teachings of Jesus Christ, you know it is a Strong Delusion.

At first I argued against them in the hope they would turn, but when I realized they were against Christ, I am here to simply to open the eyes of those folks who are still on the fence.

My question to you is this. When God creates this delusion, Do you believe he has given up on folks like Kathrine and StrongAxe, Or can the delusion be removed?


What Is The Gospel
  
Truth is the key to understanding where to find the Gospel. For Truth is why it is called a Gospel. Though we find more than one Gospel mentioned in the New Testament, there is but one Truth.

If asked, Where is the Gospel of Paul? I will say, without any argument from others, his Gospel is found in his Epistles.

But If asked, Where is the Gospel of Jesus Christ? I will say it is found in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. And then, there will be an argument.

To argue what Jesus taught in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, is not the Gospel, is like telling the world the word of Jesus Christ, is not the Truth.


Do Unsaved Live Forever
  
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. (John 1:17)

Kathrine
Its not what you believe, but what the Bible says. And according to the bible, The New Covenant of Grace and Truth, came by?

A. Jesus
B. Noah
C. David
D. Abraham
E. Moses


Do Unsaved Live Forever
  
I've never said the 4 Gospels are not the Gospel of Jesus Christ. I would like to see that posted with a time date keeping David honest here. ---kathr4453 on 6/22/21

Posted on the How Can We Sin,Blog.
Jesus came to FULFILL THE OT prophecy about Himself, not start ANOTHER GOSPEL.---kathr4453 on 2/13/21


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
When have I ever said that "Paul's epistles make Jesus a false teacher" or that makes Paul one as well.//StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Your doctrine teaches it, but you dont see it because those who follow false doctrines, are spiritually blind.
Examples? Do you agree with the following teachings? The answer is No. Both false according to your teachings.

Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father who is in Heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: to those who by patient continuance in welldoing seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life,
(Romans 2:6-7)


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
StrongAxe
I did not say you believed it, this is why I asked the question. But since you have aligned yourself with Kathrine, and she does not believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the Gospel of Jesus Christ, was it not a fair question?

And I said, every church, who does not make the Gospel of Jesus their foundation, has it wrong. And you said, you believe that too, so I dont understand your disagreement.

And, I do not question the legitimacy of Pauls teachings. What I question is the manner in which his letters are used. With Pauls epistles you not only make Jesus a false teacher, you make Paul one, as well!

Plus, you have no witnesses to your interpretation of what you believe Paul taught.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
StrongAxe
I offered you proof, and you simply turn your head. I just dont know how to get through to folks like you and Kathrine. If the teachings of a church are not found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are false. Its as simple as that.

Do you not believe that, or like Kathrine, do you not believe the first four books of the New Testament are the Gospel of Christ? Surely you can answer that question for me.



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