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Are You Saved
If salvation is of ourselves then Jesus is NOT the savior. All that He can then be is a co-savior.

Ephesians 2:8f tells us that salvation is by grace not by works - something that sabbaterians, Roman Catholics, Jehovah's Witnesses and other work-faith salvation people do not teach.

Do Weak Christians Judge
//All of her prophecies have come true, including the great earthquake/fire of San Francisco and the burning skyscrapers of New York City.

Get your facts straight!
yes, maybe we can put Ellen white prophecies on the same shelf as those of Nostradamus as they can be twisted to fit any event historically.

Yes, I can see you are still determined to promote Adventism not having much knowledge of the Bible nor its Author.

Christian Traditions
//Just to clarify, Sunday is NOT the Lord's Day - Sabbath is. The Apostles did not institute Sunday, pagan-loving apostates did that after the Apostles had all died.
Then if you truly want desperately to believe that, then we would have to conclude that the early fathers were wrong as they all viewed the Lords day as the day of resurrection - something Adventism does not celebrate - correct?

You do not have any support for your claims outside the Adventism denomination and sorry but you guys have not been given any special revelation not given already to His church. Jude 3

What Is True Religion
Great and the Biblical answer given by Josef. But while this does reflect one aspect of ethics, true religion is one that does reflect the moral relationships we have with others.

And yes I can only agree that we need to have a ministry to the needy people. Fortunately my church has a homeless ministry and today we brought them clothing and food as well as testaments.

Do Weak Christians Judge
Samuel7bb //No we do not and never had. We teach false followers of GOD who actually follow Satan will try to murder those who keep the Sabbath by enforcing a death penalty against them.
That truly reveals to everyone that you follow not the Scripture but self induced visions of Ellen White. She got booted out of a church that preached the gospel because they would not believe in her visions that Jesus would return on 22 October 1844. None of her prophecies have ever come true and much that she wrote had to be edited.

Do Christian Prophets Exist
//At least you know the source of your attack. I read the Book long ago. I have read other books against E.G.White also. I have read more then 40 of her books. I read the arguments on both sides.
I was brought up with my mother reading White's Patriarchs and Prophets and learned much of the Bible.

However, when I became born of God's Spirit, I came into understanding of God's Word and found much of EG Whites teachings were false.

It is no wonder that when people come to know Lord and study His word that many leave Adventism just after a few years in that system.

Christian Traditions
//The First Covenant was written on Stone. The New in our hearts.
Heb 8:10

While that is true, God did not overlaid the Old Covenant onto the New. If you would read Hebrews 8:9 or Jeremiah 31:13 you should easily see that the New Covenant was to be unlike the Old.

And that is clearly where Adventism had fouled up, they simply cannot employ proper exegetics of Scripture. They think selected OT law not in the New Covenant are also binding on the church.

Nor have they come into an understanding of the purpose of the law. Ever read Galatians 3:24f? Suggest you read it otherwise you will continue to believe the observance of the law is required for your salvation.

Do Weak Christians Judge

Samuel7bb// We see Paul teaching on Sabbath and no mention of the Sabbath being done away with.
Yes, we can easily see Pauls teaching on the Sabbath depicted in Romans 14:5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

//We just believe that all of the Ten Commandments are equal. Do you believe any of the other nine are done away with? Do you believe it is a sin to keep the other nine commandments?

I believe Adventists know little of the teachings of the Bible. What they pitch in observance of the 10 commandments is known as the ministry of death and condemnation. Ever Read 2 Corinthians 3:7-9?

Do Weak Christians Judge


//1Jo 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
Where Adventists are WRONG in their understanding of the Scripture is in the fact they transport command(ments) found only in the Old Covenant into the New and use that as a basis for judgment on other Christians. If the Sabbath commandment were applicable then clearly we would have seen it taught in the Early Church as well as in the Epistles but we do not.

As to judgment on other Christians, do you as an Adventist truly believe those born again of Gods Spirit will bear the Mark of the Beast just because they have communal worship on Sunday? A question that you may refuse to answer!

Do Weak Christians Judge
1st_cliff= elee' Define "weak Christian"

Read Romans 14 as the weak Christians are those who have not grown spiritually and tend to judge and criticize the stronger believers.

Such believers had not grown spiritually and lack understanding of the Word of God. They tend to adhere to dietary restrictions, observe days, and other religious ordinances.

Christian Traditions
Yes, Sunday became viewed by many as the Christian Sabbath early in the first or second century, but we find virtually nothing in the New Covenant that mandates its observance.

Originally the Sabbath in Old Testament times was strictly a day of rest from labor, not of worship.

Sabbatherians today do not observe the Sabbath as originally commanded but it is by their tradition that they observe Saturday thinking that they observe it according to the Decalogue commandment. Sabbatherians totally ignore what was commanded on how the Sabbath was to be observed.

Christian Traditions
Samuelbb7 - true that many churches do not observe Sunday as a Sabbath as there is virtually no scriptural nor traditional basic for it.

While it true that Sunday is often viewed as a day of communal worship, it is really a day of rest from labor that is where recreation would fit in.

The Christian life is not the keeping of days, months, years and other facets of the old Covenant dispensation as Christ instituted a covenant not based on the Mosaic law of which the Sabbath is but one of the 600+ laws found in the Old testament.

Is Joel Osteen Biblical
Joel Osteen is much like many other preachers that do some good for some people but really has little or no support among students of the Bible.

We need not to follow Paul, Apollo, Cephas (1 Cor. 1:12) but Christ Jesus in our Christian life.

All too often we look for leaders to follow instead of walking with the Lord. The fault is often our own.

Do Christian Prophets Exist
//Samuel, Ellen G. White made many prophecies which never came to pass. Rob

I do not know which prophicies you are referring to...
All you need to do to see the truth that none of her prophecies ever came true is to read Dudley Canright's books (Seventh Day Adventism denounced) as he was a very close associate of the Whites and high up in the hierarchy of the Adventist church.

Jesus said that He was the way and the truth and the life. Permit His spirit to guide you and you will come to know the truth.

Christian Traditions
Can you give us a few examples of where tradition supersedes scripture in the church today?

Are there some OT laws not mandated in the NT that have been superseded by tradition (OT Holy days for instance)?

Works And Deed Sames
to ---Samuelbb7

Yes no one knowledgeable of the Bible and its Author would dispute that the Jesus and Jewish believers observed ALL the law as much as their ability but you ignore the fact that the Sabbath and the Levitical dietary laws were not part of the New covenant. Nor were such observed or taught in the early Gentile church.

Can Sin Go To Heaven
A more meaningful and understandable of Romans 6:18-20 is from the New Living Bible.

Romans 6:18-20 Now you are free from your slavery to sin, and you have become slaves to righteous living. Because of the weakness of your human nature, I am using the illustration of slavery to help you understand all this. Previously, you let yourselves be slaves to impurity and lawlessness, which led ever deeper into sin. Now you must give yourselves to be slaves to righteous living so that you will become holy. When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the obligation to do right.

Churches Are Silent On Sin
//,But like Wesley and Luther we do not believe that being save by grace is a right to live in sin.

No Biblical oriented denomination really believes that salvation by grace entities one to live a life of sin. Adventists simply do not and refuse to acknowledge what others really believe.

Romans 6:1-2 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

The problem with Adventists is that they still believe one must abide by law in order to earn their salvation, If you do not believe me then view the Adventist doctrine of the Investigaive Judgment - a judgment totally of works for ones salvation.

Are Traditions Bad
The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Christ is its grand subject, our good the design and the glory of God its end.

It should fill the memory,rule the heart and guide the feet. ....It is given to you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever.

It involves the highest responsiblity, will reward the greatest labor,and will condemn all who trife with its sacred contents.

preface to Gideon testament.

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