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What Is Moral Law
If something is a mere observance such as the OT Sabbath, would that be considered a moral law or a ceremonial law?

What Is The Rest Of God
Jerry - do not forget about all those dead bodies in the new heaven.

Isaiah 66:23-24 All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me.

I wonder if those dead bodies are those of the Sabbath keepers - the kind that lead Christ to the Cross?

What Is The Rest Of God
Hebrews 4:8-10 For if Joshua had given them rest, he would not have spoken afterward of another day. There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

And that 'another day' spoken of, IS NOT the observance of the OT Sabbath, but the day we come to fully believe in Christ. (4:3)

Francis, you really need to THINK about these things for yourself and not simply parrot what your mentors tell you.

Covenants For The Church
josef **"Which ones still pertain to the church?"
The everlasting covenant established with Abraham as Father of many nations .

Totally agree and that would mean we are not subject to the tenets of the Old Covenant given ONLY to the Hebrew nation at Mt. Sinai.

What Is Law Of Liberty
Even if you sin, maybe unknownly, and you do not confess that, does that mean Christ is not your righteousness but that you have to be perfect all the time even to the day of your death?

Will there ever be a time when you have no sin in your life? Doubtful!

On the day of your death will you say you have no sin?

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

That is one reason I believe your sins are forgiven you past, present & future as what really counts is our righteousness in Christ.

In Christ Everlasting Life
2 Tim. 2:24-26 And the Lords servant must not strive, but be gentle towards all, apt to teach, forbearing, in meekness correcting them that oppose themselves, if peradventure God may give them repentance unto the knowledge of the truth, and they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him unto his will.

Good ideal, however, like on the dumb mule, one often has to use a 2x4 in order to get them to understand simple truths.

What Is The Rest Of God
**The History of the Jewish people shows that they have forsaken the sabbaths many times to their own destruction:

That is the view as promoted by Adventism in their idolatry of the OT Sabbath.

The nation of Israel came under judgment when they forsook the God that lead them out of Egypt and followed other gods.

De 11:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Covenants For The Church
Covenant of grace - the relationship into which God entered to provide, by grace, the promise of salvation to sinful humanity. It extends throughout the OT by means of various covenants to its final fulfillment in Jesus Christ. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms

Covenant of works - Theological description found in some streams of Reformed theology to describe Gods initial covenant with humanity (Adam) before the fall into sin. A perfect relationship with God could be enjoyed if humans maintained a perfect obedience to Gods law. Westminster Dictionary of Theological Terms.

In Christ Everlasting Life
1 Cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Those in Christ are no longer recognized as being in sin but have been declared righteous in Christ.

What Is Law Of Liberty
my sins are already forgiven even before I commit them. ---Mark_Eaton on 4/21/11

I don't think so. The penalty for your sins have already been paid. But to have you sins forgiven you must confess them and ask for forgiveness.
And with that you are saying that if I die having some sin unconfessed, my fate is the fires of hell?

Yes, we can see that Adventists do not believe salvation is a gift received by grace but something one must merit.

And the righteousness of the Christian is not that of Christ but something of our own doing. 1 Cor. 1:30, Romans 1:17

Shame on you for such a distortion of the gospel messsage. The day you die you will have your sin. 1 John 1:8

What Is The Rest Of God
**Most people who do not keep the sabbath have in their churches at least THREE Doctrines about the sabbath that are right!

1. The OT sabbath is not taught in the New Covenant, i..e there is not so much as even a hint of a command for Christians to observe the OT Sabbath.

2. The early church Apostles & their immediate successors did not teach observance of the Jewish Sabbath. Of course, they had only the Holy Spirit to guide them, not Ellen White.

3. That believers in Christ enter into that rest depicted by God at Creation. Hebrews 4

Covenants For The Church
**the new covenant is not a covenant of grace. We are saved by grace, but thats not the covenant we made.

Please explain as Easton's Bible dictionary explains in full the distinctions between the covenant of works and the covenant of grace.

And we also see this distinction in the Westminster confession.

Covenants For The Church
While we can see mentioned several covenants in the Bible, theologians generally break them down into just 2 - the covenant of works and the covenant of grace.

What Is The Rest Of God
**So who THINKS TO change Gods times?

Since the rotation of the earth is very gradually slowing down, our days are really becoming longer. What the duration of a 'day' was during creation is anyones speculation.

In any case, we know for certainty that the no tribe on earth observed the Sabbath until the time of Moses and we know also for certainty that the observance of the Sabbath was not commanded anywhere in the New Covenant / New Testament.

What Is Law Of Liberty
Since the law is fulfilled by love of neighbor (Romans 13:9-10), sin really has become more of a refusal to address the needs of ones neighbor than of a mere trespass of established law.

This also makes sense in that the Pharisees were very careful to obey the law externally but inwardedly that had no compassion or love for the needs of their neighbors.

It is really a pity for those who believe themselves to be Christians yet will not lift a finger to help a neighbor in need of basic necessities.

What Is Law Of Liberty
**It is very sad to see professing Christians say that if we obey the ten commandments that we are in bondage:

I believe the bondage comes in when you become much like the Pharisees of the time of Jesus. They obeyed the 10 commandments as well as ALL the law very carefully, but their religion was not of the heart and they ignored the needs of those around them.

And like Adventists today, they used such externalism to judge the spirituality of others. "You are a bad bad boy if you worship the Lord with all your heart, mind & soul, and love your neighbor but do not do the OT sabbath"!

What Is The Rest Of God
Francis - **But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday." Gibbons

Very true since the church really has no Sabbath as such was given ONLY to the Jews. Howbeit, the early Gentile church always met on Sundays, the Lords day for communal worship and that became the Christian Sabbath.

**People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become Adventists, and keep Saturday holy."

It is true if you believe you must observe the Sabbath as stated in OT Scripture, it should be on Saturdays. But there is nothing in the New Testament that supports any day as holy.

Easily answered!!!!

What Is The Rest Of God
Cluny - any any case, our Adventists friends should get it through their hard heads that the Eastern Churches never were part of the Roman catholic church and always observed Sunday as the day of communal worship.

Olde Ellen White really did not know church history and like many other things she taught, were in ERROR.

What Is Law Of Liberty
**Many are Moral laws. Down through history the church has taught all of the Ten Commandmets are Moral laws.

But are not moral laws those laws that deal with human or interpersonal relations?

What has the OT Sabbath to do with interpersonal relations? It is basically an external observance.

I do, however, agree with principle involved in having communal worship on a set day of the week such as we find in the Christian Sabbbath. Hebrews 10:25

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