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Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
What, exactly did Jesus teach, that I don't believe? Be specific. In particular, which "doctrines" of mine contradict John 8:34-35?---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Jesus taught in those verses, those who sin are slaves and the slave has not been accepted as a permanent member of the family of God, AKA saved. Kathrine claims to be saved and yet she sins, when Jesus calls her a slave of sin.

Do you believe Kathrine is saved?

(Matthew 5:37) All you need to say is simply Yes or No, anything beyond this comes from the evil one.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
You'll never know the damage done to those told .." If you don't speak in tongues you are not saved". Another EXPERIENCE damaging scenario---kathr4453

Kathrine
Oh and dont forget the one your doctrine teaches, That we are saved when we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift, Peter taught we receive when we repent and are baptized.

So if we repent and are baptized, according to your doctrine, we can save ourselves if we do these things. Which is a clear and dangerous teaching of works.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
Nowhere does the bible say we are saved through experience.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Its there, but since you havent experienced Pauls testimony in (Romans 7: 7-25), you dont see it. This is an experience of how the saved, died to sin. Its my experience, but you must experience it to see it.

Sin is a sign of the unsaved, not the sign of the saved. The problem is, you say you believe in Jesus, yet you dont believe what he taught. Here is just one example where Jesus lied according to your doctrines.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
My point is, subjective experience is no guarantee of correctness.---StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Subjective experience?
Do you see Pauls testimony in (Romans 7) as a subjective experience too?

The problem though, in understanding Pauls testimony, Paul was educated in the Law, so his speak is different than the common man. He is like a Harvard Law professor trying to explain physics to a 10 year old.
And if he was hard to understand in his day, the only hope we have in understanding him, is through our spiritual experience.

Paul gives a spot on experience, as to the stages we go through when we die to sin, and what we must go through to live for God. If your experience doesnt match his, you are on the wrong path.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
StrongAxe
Brother, You got me to thinking.
I have proven to Atheists the existence of God, through the experience one has after a confession of sin.

These folks did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit before they did this, and yet their experience of forgiveness and cleansing promised in (1 John 1: 8 & 9), was the same as mine. I did not know these folks, so I could not follow their progress.

Causes me to wonder, if their experience was God keeping a promise, or did they receive the Holy Spirit when they did this? Hmmm
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
(Luke 11:13)


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
StrongAxe
I received the Holy Spirit through the instruction given in (Acts 2:38). I was baptized, but did not repent until some 15 years later. And that, is when I received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How did I know?
When I received the gift, I knew sin where there was no sin. I could actually see evil for the first time in my life, in me, and in the world around me.

Being like an infant in this new experience, I didnt understand or even know it was the Holy Spirit. To be honest, It seemed more a curse at the time and for the next 15 years, until I learned the power of daily confession. After that, I was born of God about 6 months later.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
and all the world may become guilty before God. (Romans 3:19)

StrongAxe
Those who have received Gods Holy Spirit, can tell the difference between Guilt before God and Peer Pressure.

But you make a good point, If someone has not received the gift of the Holy Spirit, maybe they dont know the difference. I just assumed this being a Christian blog, Janet was a Christian and has the Holy Spirit to guide her.

Or are you saying you have difficulty discerning between the two? If so, if you feel the need to confess said sin, that is guilt before God.


Christians Sell Cigarettes
  
Do feel guilty when you sell cigarettes?
Guilt is a sign from God, a sign which tells us when we do wrong. I think every Christian deals with a question like this from time to time.

And though many dont realize it, God has written his commandments upon our hearts and we will feel guilt when we break them.
Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)

Guilt is a clear indication when we have broken Gods Law.
Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God.
(Romans 3:19)


Works Of The Law
  
The original text of Romans 2:7 does not say "He will give you eternal life" if you do this or that.---kathr4453

(Romans 2:6-7)...God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,....eternal life:

Thought maybe everyone should look at this verse themselves and see if what Kathrine said was true...or false. As you can see it does say he will give us eternal life if we continue in well Doing.

Well doing is obviously not a thought but an action one takes because they love their neighbor, those Deeds mentioned in vs 6.


Works Of The Law
  
However I believe the KJV.....---kathr4453

Kathrine
You believe the KJV? If this is true, why do you not accept the following scriptures as worded in the KJV?

(1 John 3:9) KJV says.... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(Romans 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
(Romans 2: 5 & 6)...God,...will render to every man according to his deeds

And many, many, many more to come...


Works Of The Law
  
(John 14:23)Jesus replied, Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

And how do we receive the Lords commands?

(John 14:26)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

What are the results for those who follow the Lords Commands?

(Romans 2:6 & 7)
God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Hinduism for some, Christianity for others.


Works Of The Law
  
David seems to separate being given the Holy Spirit as something different than being Born Again.---kathr4453

Kathrine
Exactly, I do not equate being given the gift of the Holy Spirit with being born again. Many folks, unknowingly believe as you do, that they can save themselves. Sure you teach against it, because you claim to follow Paul and Paul teaches we can not be saved by what we do.

But if we are saved when we receive the Holy Spirit, (Acts 2:38) clearly teaches we can save ourselves when we repent and are baptized. For when we do these two things, we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Or is that a false teaching too?


Works Of The Law
  
You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. (James 2:20-22)

StrongAxe
As you can see, Jesus and Paul are both in my corner.

Jesus replied, Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.
(John 14:23)


Kathrine
No. 2 was meant to say, those you receive through the Holy Spirit.


Works Of The Law
  
Kathrine
No.1
We must receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38)

No.2
Live in obedience to the Lords commands, those you recipient through the Holy Spirit. (Romans 2:5-7)

No. 3
When you sin, and you will, until such time when you are born again, confess your sins before God. And because of the acceptable sacrifice of Jesus Christ, God will forgive you of the confessed sins and the Blood of his Son will wash your sins away. (1 John 1:7-9)

No. 4
This obedience will bring you into a relationship with God, and through that relationship you grow in his favor and he will decide when and if you will be saved.(John 14:21-23)


Works Of The Law
  
I am constantly saying on these blogs that all truth is established by two or three witnesses.- -StrongAxe

StrongAxe
Saying and doing are two different things. For example, Paul does teach, Not by Works but by Grace, but you claim this means Works plays no role in our salvation. Can you show me a second witness, for that teaching?

Personally...I like you, so though its easy to get riled by what I say, I am not saying it out of spite, but because I care.


Works Of The Law
  
StrongAxe & Kathrine
Pauls epistles, do say, what you say they say,...but they are written about those who have been born again. You both reject the teaching as to who those people are. And you dont believe you need any witnesses to corroborate, what you believe, Paul taught.

(1 John 3:9-10), No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because Gods seed remains in them, they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are...

I wish I could make you accept these facts, but because you wont, I fear you, and those who believe like you, will certainly perish.


Works Of The Law
  
But righteouess ITSELF does not save us--StrongAxe on 5/30/21

StrongAxe
Not by being righteous, but by our acts of righteousness. An act of righteousness, is a commandment done out of Love, love for God or your neighbor.

An act of righteousness does not make us righteous, it simply pleases God. And he chooses to save those with whom he is pleased.

But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of Gods wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.
(Romans 2:5-7)


Works Of The Law
  
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:10)


Because of what? Righteousness!

Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness
(Romans 6:16)


And what leads to righteousness? Obedience!

StrongAxe
Those in Christ, are in Christ, because of righteousness. And what leads to this righteousness? Obedience
The problem....You and Kathrine simply do not believe obedience leads to righteousness. And because of this, I know you are not in Christ.


Works Of The Law
  
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:10)


Because of what? Righteousness!

Know ye not that to whomever ye yield yourselves as servants to obey, his servants ye become whom ye obey, whether of sin which leads unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness
(Romans 6:16)


And what leads to righteousness? Obedience!

StrongAxe
Those in Christ, are in Christ, because of righteousness. And what leads to this righteousness? Obedience
The problem....You and Kathrine simply do not believe obedience leads to righteousness. And because of this, I know you are not in Christ.



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