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Christians Sell Cigarettes
I did not say you believed it, this is why I asked the question. But since you have aligned yourself with Kathrine, and she does not believe Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are the Gospel of Jesus Christ, was it not a fair question?

And I said, every church, who does not make the Gospel of Jesus their foundation, has it wrong. And you said, you believe that too, so I dont understand your disagreement.

And, I do not question the legitimacy of Pauls teachings. What I question is the manner in which his letters are used. With Pauls epistles you not only make Jesus a false teacher, you make Paul one, as well!

Plus, you have no witnesses to your interpretation of what you believe Paul taught.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
I offered you proof, and you simply turn your head. I just dont know how to get through to folks like you and Kathrine. If the teachings of a church are not found in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, they are false. Its as simple as that.

Do you not believe that, or like Kathrine, do you not believe the first four books of the New Testament are the Gospel of Christ? Surely you can answer that question for me.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Assuming that all the prominent characters in the Bible had exactly the same theological perspective as you do is the height or presumption, especially when you include Jesus in the list.---StrongAxe

I know what she meant and I stand by my answer. The teachings of Jesus Christ and the ones he taught to his disciples, are not taught in any organized church today.

Using the teachings of Jesus Christ, and only those he taught to his disciples to teach us, show me the Lords teachings on Grace.

Then tell me what you have learned, and be honest.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
I know its not your objective, but you really do make me laugh when you attempt to say things, designed to make me mad.

Too funny, and I am sure others appreciate your unintended humor.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
So please provide me a list of others who believe as you do. ---kathr4453

People you have heard of?
There is Jesus, of course. Then we have his twelve disciples. And there is Luke, Paul, Cornelius, and Steven. We also have Barsabbas, and Matthias. There are many more, but you will need to read all of the New Testament to find them.

Hopefully someday you will believe what Jesus taught and I will be able to add your name to that list, but more importantly, God will be able to add you as a permanent member of his family.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Isn't repentance and being baptized saving yourself?Kathrine

Let me try to clear things up for you. Your teachers have got things all muddled up. I blame your teachers, not you, for believing as you do. But you will pay the same penalty, so listen.

When we Repent and are baptized we then receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are not saved when we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, as you believe. We are saved, when we are born of the Spirit. Many folks receive this gift, but very few are born of the spirit. (Matthew 22:14)

The reason why, is probably because they all believe just as you do. What is the sign given, so we will know we have been born of the Spirit?(1 John 3:9-10)

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Over the years you have been very helpful in my understanding the foundation of many false doctrines. Though you may fight and squabble amongst yourselves, doctrines like yours are founded on saving oneself. Which is why I showed you (Acts 2:38).

I honestly didnt know, folks believed they were saved, when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit. That was an Eye opening revelation for me. You gave me another way to reveal the false doctrine, to those who believe as you do. And again I thank you. And Hopefully someday, you will be able to thank me when you can read (Acts 2:38), and see the truth in what I have shown you.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
How was I not truthful? I don't know her heart, and neither do you.---StrongAxe

Let me rephrase the question, with your comment I believe you may have misunderstood what I was asking. Kathrine believes she is saved, and has stated so many times. She has also stated, that she had sinned after she was saved. You have never made these claims, and this is why you were not my example.

According to what Jesus taught in (John 8:34) and in (1 John 3:9-10), is she saved? Now before you answer, remember, Jesus is a teacher, the master teacher. Some of the things he taught were in parable, but most of the gospel teachings are not. A teaching taught by a master teacher, is taught so even fools like us can understand.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
I got the answer I expected. I was checking to see if we could have a constructive conversation, but just wanted to check first. And by your answer, you showed me you can not be truthful in our discussion. But then again, if you answered it truthfully, Kathrine would now be spewing lies about you instead of me. Which is another clue according to (Revelation 21:8).

So I will try another one.
Do you believe what John said in (1 John 1: 9-10)KJV?
Yes or No.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
What, exactly did Jesus teach, that I don't believe? Be specific. In particular, which "doctrines" of mine contradict John 8:34-35?---StrongAxe

Jesus taught in those verses, those who sin are slaves and the slave has not been accepted as a permanent member of the family of God, AKA saved. Kathrine claims to be saved and yet she sins, when Jesus calls her a slave of sin.

Do you believe Kathrine is saved?

(Matthew 5:37) All you need to say is simply Yes or No, anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
You'll never know the damage done to those told .." If you don't speak in tongues you are not saved". Another EXPERIENCE damaging scenario---kathr4453

Oh and dont forget the one your doctrine teaches, That we are saved when we receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit. The gift, Peter taught we receive when we repent and are baptized.

So if we repent and are baptized, according to your doctrine, we can save ourselves if we do these things. Which is a clear and dangerous teaching of works.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Nowhere does the bible say we are saved through experience.---StrongAxe

Its there, but since you havent experienced Pauls testimony in (Romans 7: 7-25), you dont see it. This is an experience of how the saved, died to sin. Its my experience, but you must experience it to see it.

Sin is a sign of the unsaved, not the sign of the saved. The problem is, you say you believe in Jesus, yet you dont believe what he taught. Here is just one example where Jesus lied according to your doctrines.

(John 8:34-35) Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
My point is, subjective experience is no guarantee of correctness.---StrongAxe

Subjective experience?
Do you see Pauls testimony in (Romans 7) as a subjective experience too?

The problem though, in understanding Pauls testimony, Paul was educated in the Law, so his speak is different than the common man. He is like a Harvard Law professor trying to explain physics to a 10 year old.
And if he was hard to understand in his day, the only hope we have in understanding him, is through our spiritual experience.

Paul gives a spot on experience, as to the stages we go through when we die to sin, and what we must go through to live for God. If your experience doesnt match his, you are on the wrong path.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Brother, You got me to thinking.
I have proven to Atheists the existence of God, through the experience one has after a confession of sin.

These folks did not have the gift of the Holy Spirit before they did this, and yet their experience of forgiveness and cleansing promised in (1 John 1: 8 & 9), was the same as mine. I did not know these folks, so I could not follow their progress.

Causes me to wonder, if their experience was God keeping a promise, or did they receive the Holy Spirit when they did this? Hmmm
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
(Luke 11:13)

Christians Sell Cigarettes
I received the Holy Spirit through the instruction given in (Acts 2:38). I was baptized, but did not repent until some 15 years later. And that, is when I received the gift of the Holy Spirit.

How did I know?
When I received the gift, I knew sin where there was no sin. I could actually see evil for the first time in my life, in me, and in the world around me.

Being like an infant in this new experience, I didnt understand or even know it was the Holy Spirit. To be honest, It seemed more a curse at the time and for the next 15 years, until I learned the power of daily confession. After that, I was born of God about 6 months later.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
and all the world may become guilty before God. (Romans 3:19)

Those who have received Gods Holy Spirit, can tell the difference between Guilt before God and Peer Pressure.

But you make a good point, If someone has not received the gift of the Holy Spirit, maybe they dont know the difference. I just assumed this being a Christian blog, Janet was a Christian and has the Holy Spirit to guide her.

Or are you saying you have difficulty discerning between the two? If so, if you feel the need to confess said sin, that is guilt before God.

Christians Sell Cigarettes
Do feel guilty when you sell cigarettes?
Guilt is a sign from God, a sign which tells us when we do wrong. I think every Christian deals with a question like this from time to time.

And though many dont realize it, God has written his commandments upon our hearts and we will feel guilt when we break them.
Therefore by the deeds of the law, no flesh shall be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (Romans 3:20)

Guilt is a clear indication when we have broken Gods Law.
Now we know that whatsoever things the law saith, it saith to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God.
(Romans 3:19)

Works Of The Law
The original text of Romans 2:7 does not say "He will give you eternal life" if you do this or that.---kathr4453

(Romans 2:6-7)...God, who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality,....eternal life:

Thought maybe everyone should look at this verse themselves and see if what Kathrine said was true...or false. As you can see it does say he will give us eternal life if we continue in well Doing.

Well doing is obviously not a thought but an action one takes because they love their neighbor, those Deeds mentioned in vs 6.

Works Of The Law
However I believe the KJV.....---kathr4453

You believe the KJV? If this is true, why do you not accept the following scriptures as worded in the KJV?

(1 John 3:9) KJV says.... Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
(Romans 2:13) For it is not the hearers of the law who are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
(Romans 2: 5 & 6)...God,...will render to every man according to his deeds

And many, many, many more to come...

Works Of The Law
(John 14:23)Jesus replied, Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

And how do we receive the Lords commands?

(John 14:26)
But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

What are the results for those who follow the Lords Commands?

(Romans 2:6 & 7)
God will repay each person according to what they have done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Hinduism for some, Christianity for others.

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