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What Is The Strong Delusion
  
Trav:

I don't need to talk about Israel, because you already do, and space is limited.

No. The context of the "entire book" is NOT "Israel's relationship with God". That is a big part of it, yes, but a lot of it happened before Israel even existed, and the whole message of the New Testament is that Jesus came to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" - but most of them rejected him, so after his death, his message is now open to everyone. Did you forget the parable of the Wedding Feast? All who were invited made excuses, so the bridegroom told his servants to go and find new guests.

Israel WILL come back eventually - but that time is not yet.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

You wrote: I can tell from your words you have not been saved.

Which words are those, exactly? Please be specific.

Mark 16:16: "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" - check.
Romans 10:9: "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." - check.

Jesus said "Judge not, lest ye be judge", yet you are here, judging my salvation. Does that mean YOU aren't saved, because you're disobeying Jesus in at least this regard?

but in my experience it took approximately 6 months

So you agree that salvation is not instantaneous.


Want More From God
  
Ruben:

Yes, the next verse says we are prepared for good works - but it doesn't say we are SAVED by those good works. Yes. God will render to each according to his works. Elsewhere he says that our works are tested by fire, and those without good works will have their works burned up in the first - *even though they themselves are saved*. Salvation (a GIFT of God), and rewards for good works (which are earned) are two separate things.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

Romans 7:14-17
14: I *am* carnal
15: I *do* which I allow not, i *do not, I hate that *do* I.
16: I *do*
17: I *do it*, sin that *dwelleth* in me.
These are all PRESENT TENSE, not past tense. Paul is not writing about the past, but the present.

Also, you presume a lot by telling me to do something that I already did 46 years ago.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
jerry6593:

If that were really true, where is the evidence? It's been over a year, and still nothing other than Republicans here and there caught cheating. Why are you and so many Republicans convinced Trump won? What evidence do you base YOUR strong belief on? (And no, "Trump deserved to win, so he must have" is not evidence.)

If there is such strong evidence that makes you believe so strongly, why has nobody presented it yet? Mike Lindell, the MyPillow guy claimed for months that there was so much evidence that would convince everyone, he would present at his August Symposium - a huge nothing burger.

You will know a tree by its fruit, and your "Trump Won" tree hasn't produced a single piece of fruit.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
jerry6593:

Many Jan 6 participants had ample pro-Trump presence on social media. Records exist of government agents planning it.

Trump is incapable of accepting a loss in anything, whether golf or politics, and he told that lie often enough that his followers believe it.

EVERY state (including Republcian ones) certified election results saying Biden won. Republicans in WI, MI, AZ tried to submit fraudulent electoral results to National Archives. Arizona audit confirmed Biden win. Trump and Giuliani are on tape asking Georgia to throw out election results and call him the winner. 65 lawsuits challenged election results AND ALL LOST.

Yet 30% of Republicans STILL believe the lie that Trump won. THIS is strong delusion.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

Reuben brought up Romans 7:14-15:
"For I do not do what I want, but I do very thing I hate...because of the sin that dwells in me."

Was Paul not saved, born again, and filled with the Spirit when he wrote his epistles? If so, how then did he have sin that STILL dwelt with in him? The answer is that the transformation that Christ does to us is not an instantaneous event, but a gradual process that takes an entire lifetime.

This is why Paul is constantly making concessions (e.g. with regards to eating meat) because he knows that doing so might cause new believers to stumble. How is it possible for that to happen? Because even though they believed, their transformation was not yet complete.


Want More From God
  
Reuben:

Ephesians: 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Works are NOT involved in our salvation, so we couldn't boast like this:

Matthew 7:22-23:
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

1 Cor 3:11-15 is specially says someone relying on works may be saved DESPITE works, but their works are destroyed.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
Trav:

YET AGAIN, you totally missed the context.

Yes, God's covenant IS good news - ***TO ISRAEL***. But not when you tell it to people who ***ARE NOT ISRAEL*** and furthermore tell them that God's covenant doesn't apply to them, because they're not Israel. It's like waving a cake in front of a hungry man and saying "This cake is delicious, but you can't have any." It's cruel.

God doesn't say that. The WHOLE POINT of the Gospel is that God's covenant - previously available to Israel ONLY - is now available to ANYONE who believes, regardless of their ancestry. You seem unable to understand this.

This is "ChristiaNet", not "IsraelNet". It's for everyone, whether they're Israel or not.


Want More From God
  
Rambo:

Poor want money for food. Rich want it for a yacht.

OVER HALF of Americans on SNAP are employed, working for corporations too greedy to pay them a decent living wage. WalMart employees receive $6.2 BILLION in public assistance - money taxpayers have to pay, because WalMart won't. Their shareholders pocket that amount themselves.

McDonald's is a close second. McDonald's employees in the U.S. (pre-COVID) made $13 an hour, and get 3 weeks of paid vacation. In Denmark, they get $22 and 6 weeks, and a pension. The price of the burgers are about the same. It's not that McDonald's can't afford to pay workers here more. They just don't want to, and the law doesn't make them.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
Trav:

Exactly what "doctrines" are those, exactly? You constantly condemn what you think I believe, without ever actually stating what you take objection to. Be specific.

I *NEVER* said the scriptures you post are invalid, just in many cases, they aren't applicable to the specific subject being discussed. E.g. just because God made a covenant with Israel, that *DIDN'T* prevent him from making a new covenant that also includes others.

You constantly talking about God's covenant with Israel and insisting he never made a covenant with everyone else implies everyone else is destined for hell, without hope - so your Gospel is just rubbing their noses in it. What kind of "Good news" is that?!


Tithe To Abused Animals
  
Rambo:

In the Old Testament, 11 tribes of Israel had their own land to farm, and gave 10% of their increase to Levi, who owned no land.

In Christianity, no group is forbidden from owning land and need to be supported by everyone else. Many large churches are huge rich corporations, with pastors much richer than most members. Many have mansions, yachts, and private jets. This is because they preach tithing to their members, and use that income to personally enrich themselves. This is not what tithing was supposed to be for.

Paying 10% is legalism. Nowhere in the New Testament is anyone commanded to pay tithes, or reprimanded for not doing so. The early church didn't pay 10% - they kept ALL their goods in common.


Want More From God
  
Ruben:

(Sorry, I said that was said by John, but it was actually Paul).

My point is that yes, these three remain, but our SALVATION is not rooted in all three of them.

We are SAVED by faith alone. We are JUSTIFIED by faith and works. (Elsewhere, Paul says what happens to someone without works, or with bad works - they themselves are saved, although their works are destroyed as by fire.)


What Is The Gospel
  
Ruben:

You wrote: That's because they believe in the Bible Alone doctrine, which is no where in scripture!

Not really. Most cults teach false doctrines because they have their own doctrine - whether it comes from their own experience, or "revelations" from their so-called "prophets" and teachers, that they consider more important than the Bible itself. Bible-only groups are necessarily closer to the truth, because if they actually hold scripture sacred, they can't depart far from it, as other groups do (e.g. Branch Davidians, Jonestown's People's Temple, Mormons, etc.). They may be as misguided as Pharisees, but they don't go off the deep end.


Want More From God
  
kathr4453 :

You wrote: Strongaxe, I believe the verses in Matthew you always refer to is addressed to those who make it through the Great Tribulation after we see all that will come to pass in Matthew 24-25. You see Jesus as KING here on earth at that time.. Seeing the Great Tribulation is also know as the time of Jacob's Trouble, and anti_ Semitic will be at its height, the MY BRETHREN here are Jews Jesus is referring to. How the Jews are treated at that time, also is stated in Zachariah 12-14.

This judgement is not those saved by grace through faith today.


Jesus never made this distinction. He never said there was one set of rules for some people, and a different set of rules for others who come later.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

But if you have a spirit that is telling you that something is The Truth, how do you know whether or not that spirit is, in fact, the Holy Spirit, or some other spirit? The fact that so many weird cults exists (including may Christian-based cults) demonstrates that a very large number of people are unable to make this distinction.

One way to know is, if that spirit tells you something that goes against the Bible, one of them is wrong - and guess which one that is?


Want More From God
  
kathr4453:

Exactly! John wrote that the three greatest things are Faith, Hope, and Love - yet we are saved by Faith, not by Hope, and not by Love. (Although, curiously enough, the judgment in Matthew 25 is based on Love, not Faith).


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

The Old Testament is much older than Jesus (i.e. much more than 2000 years old), and the New Testament has been around for almost 2000 years. It's a common conceit among many English-speaking evangelicals that the Bible somehow miraculously sprang out of nothing in 1611, and there was nothing before that.

Another problem is that many churches emphasize personal experience over scripture, and say "The Bible may say one thing, but the Holy Spirit tells me something else". Since God is not the author of confusion, they may be hearing from some spirit, but it probably isn't the one they think it is. Many cults are born this way.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
Trav:

Which "blind doctrines" are those? Please be specific.

I'm suggesting that EVERY part of the Bible needs to be studied within the context that it was written - not just cherry-picking a verse here or there out of context just to "prove" one's pet doctrines - which you do all the time.

Note that Romans was specifically written *to the Romans*, and NOT to Israel, but of course, with your "Everything is about Israel" doctrine, you have to make it all about them.

I also note that you answered this 3 weeks after I posted it. Were you just bored, and searching for some post of mine that you hadn't attacked yet?



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