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How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

No, it isn't. NO Old Testament Prophet ever said "whosoever in Israel".
No New Testament apostle ever said "whosoever in Israel".

You are deliberately misrepresenting scripture to push your own agenda that only you believe.

Of course Apostles in Acts 2 addressed men of Israel - because that's who they were talking to at the time. That in no way says God's promise was exclusive to them only. There were other places, like John 3:16, written to everyone in general, where no such qualification applied.

Context, man, context!


Church Today In Apostasy
  
David:

Jesus freed us from the curses of sin, disease, and death, which we all inherited from Adam. That Christians still get sick, and die (witnessed by church cemeteries for the past two millennia) and even the Apostles gave us rules for how to deal with sins and apostasy within the church demonstrate that none of these were absolute and instantaneous.

Do YOU personally know any Christian who never sins or gets sick, and who is living forever? I sure don't.

So if what you're saying is, indeed, true, this means at least 99.999999% of Christians throughout history have not been saved and redeemed. "I came to save mankind from sin, but that doesn't apply to most of you" is not a particularly appealing gospel.


How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

You're STILL ignoring the word "whosoever" which is used in several different scriptures.


Church Today In Apostasy
  
David:

Through Adam's disobedience, all became SLAVES to sin. Through Jesus' sacrifice, we are no longer SLAVES to sin. We aren't incapable of it, just no longer compelled to do it. 1 John says if we sin, we must confess, and He will forgive us - written to the Church, not unbelievers.

There can be sin without Law. E.g. Adam eating the fruit, Cain murdering Abel even though there was no law against murder at that time.

Some were saying we should sin more to better demonstrate God's grace, but Paul said God forbid!

Unfortunately, many who call themselves Christians believe in "Easy Grace", treating it as a "get out of hell free" card, a license to do whatever they please with no repercussions.


Church Today In Apostasy
  
David:

James 2:10
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

If we were currently under the Law, then we would be required to live 100% sinless lives from the moment we were saved until death. Even one single slip-up of the tiniest kind, and it would be just as bad as if we had committed mass murder.

To claim that one is totally sinless is to try to justify oneself according to the Law.

We would be total slaves to the Law. Jesus died to free us from slavery to the Law.


How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

This does not say "For God so loved Israel", nor "whosoever of Israel believeth in him". These refer to everyone, whether they are of Israel or not.


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

You wrote: Well which of the 30,000 denoms are ya that cannot agree?

Denominations often differ on minor points, but agree on the fundamental ones.

have never posted a single scripture about a Sheep or Israel.

The reason I haven't posted any such scripture is that YOU did, and *I AGREE WITH THOSE SCRIPTURES* as I have said again and again.

On the other hand, YOU never post a single scripture about sheep that are NOT of this fold (i.e. people outside of Israel), and even though I have done so several times, you interpret them differently than almost all Christians throughout history have done. What gives you alone such amazing insight that all other Christians in the past 2000 years lack?


Church Today In Apostasy
  
David:

We need an interpreter because the Bible was written in informal language, to commmon people. It is not a legal document written in precise legalese. It is not a precise mathematical, scientific, or engineering specification. All of those use precise words and language, but the Bible does not.

What does "rightly divide the word of truth" mean, precisely?, What is "the word of truth"? How does one "divide" a word? How does one do it "rightly"? None of these terms are precisely defined. It is assumed the reader will be able to figure it out. People 2000 years ago lived in a different culture and had different preconceptions and assumptions than we do, so things need to be interpreted.


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

You wrote: You just testified you dont follow GOD you follow man.

I said no such thing, but thanks yet again by lying and putting words in my mouth I never said. I said what most Christians in the world today believe. You can interpret this in one of two ways:

1) God cares for his church, and guides it in the way it should go, so Christians mostly follow God's plan, or

2) God willingly lets 99.999999% of his Church lapse into delusion, but only reveals The One And Only Truth to one single person named Trav.

Which of these two scenarios is more likely? 2 is the kind of mindset that breeds dangerous cults.


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

Most Christian churches in the world today correclty believe Christ's sacrifice and admission into the New Covenant is available to ANYONE who will, NOT just Israel. This is not "my theology". This is the theology of all Christianity from Apostles down to the present age.

I REPEATEDLY showed multiple NT scriptures that say "whosoever will" - ANYONE, not just Israel. That you say these are no witnesses means you DELIBERATELY ignore multiple scriptures just because they don't agree with your own pet theory that YOU ALONE IN THE WHOLE WORLD believe. This is delusion. This is heresy. This is apostasy.

You never showed ANY OT scripture that says that everyone else is EXCLUDED from the New Covenant.


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

Because of the first Adam, sin entered the world, which condemned EVERYONE to death. The Second Adam (Jesus) conquered sin, fixing that. So what, did that fix only apply to a certain select few, leaving everyone else without hope? Because that's what you are preaching if you say the Second Covenant applies only to Israel, and the Gospel is preached to everyone else just to thumb their noses it "This is for Israel but not for you".

You say that calling the Second Covenant open to all a false doctrine. If it is, every other Christian on the planet has it wrong, and only have it right. Thinking "I alone have the truth. Everyone else is wrong" is delusion, and the basis of all cults.


Church Today In Apostasy
  
RichardC:

1 John 1 8-10:
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John was written to the church - yet says "if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves".

Yes, Jesus cleanses us from sin, but that is not instantaneous. He also conquered death, yet we still die. The abundance of Christian cemeteries for the last 2000 years proves this conquest is not yet complete.

Do you know ANY church full of 100% sinless and 100% immortal saints?


How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

You quoted something I said - and then what you said in response had NOTHING TO DO with what you quoted.

Yes, Israel united. I have NEVER disagreed with you on that. Never. So why do you keep pushing a point on me THAT I ALREADY AGREE WITH?

Yet you constantly ignore and refuse to accept that Christ died for the sins of ALL, not just Israel, despite many New Testament scriptures about that.

Judah never equals all Israel

Then how do you explain how Paul, a Benjamite, called himself a Jew? Why do you never explain this?


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

You wrote: Again Ill post for those seeking truth. OT = NT.

No. If they were the same, we would not need the NT at all. There are many things revealed in the New Testament that were not even conceived of in the Old Testament.

It's curious that you claim to be a Christian, yet almost every scripture you quote ignores the New Testament, and sticks mainly to the old. It's almost as if you prefer the old covenant to the new one. Why is that?


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

You wrote: Yeah small number. Wow. They number in the Thousands specific vs your misinterpreted six verses. Count for ever and everlasting over 480 times you an imposter avoided so far.

There are not thousands of scriptures talking about the Second Covenant.

And if God says something, even just six times, it's important. NOT ONE of the many scriptures you posted said that the new covenant is *ONLY* for Israel, and everyone else is automatically excluded - yet you keep pushing this agenda, despite several New Testament scriptures that directly contradict you.


How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

You wrote: You say many things un-researched.

I literally quoted a scripture where Paul, from the tribe of Benjamin, called himself a Jew (so he couldn't be using that term to refer to Judah alone, because he wasn't from that tribe). But of course, you ignore that because it contradicts your own ideas. Don't argue with me. Argue with PAUL.

You want to talk about "false doctrine in face of witnesses"? It is Paul who is witnessing against your false doctrine. If you want unadulterated truth, why not listen to what scriptures actually say, instead of ignoring the ones you don't like?


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

Then what, exactly, is "the original tree" in the first place? To the contrary, Israel was part of the original tree before they were scattered - so when they are finally re-attached, they will fit more naturally onto the tree than other branches that were *never* originally part of it (i.e. other nations).

You ignore all the other scriptures that do not restrict salvation to just Israel. All the ones that use the phrase "whosoever will", for example, that I quoted in an earlier post. They don't say "whosoever in Israel will". But you fixate on a small number of scriptures that support your point, and ignore the large number that refute you.


How To Rebuke Evil
  
Trav:

As I said often, in NT, "Jew" referred not only to people from the tribe of Judah, but to anyone from Israel, regardless of tribe.

Scribes and pharisee were referred to as Jews, even though they were from Levi.

Acts 21:39
But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.

So stop trying to split the hair and say Israel and Jews are two different things, because the New Testament itself, including an Apostle with a divine mandate and author of half of it, doesn't make that distinction.


Explain Hebrews 10:24-25
  
Trav:

You sound like a broken record. Read my lips for the twenty thousandth time.
I have no problem with quotes from prophets you posted.
I said this again and again, and you still refuse to get it.

Prophets said the Second Covenant applies to Israel. I get that. I agree with that. Move on.

None of those prophets said everyone else is EXCLUDED, but YOU do. Many New Testament scriptures say other people are INCLUDED - an idea you repeatedly reject.

What I'm saying has nothing to do with "libs" and "denoms" and "demoncrats". I quote scripture and you repeatedly reject it.

Accountable to God? You will have to explain to him how you reject the words of his apostles.


Orthodox Church Priesthood
  
Trav:

I don't exclude OT. I fully acknowledge OT is definitely a part of what's happening. I have repeatedly said this, yet you keep ignoring it. The New Covenant is to Israel, yes, but *ALSO* to everyone else, which is revealed in the NT.

It is YOU who go by OT *ONLY* and reject NT teachings about the covenent.

Romans 11:24
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

The good olive is Christ. Natural branches are Israel, cut off, but will later be re-grafted. Wild tree is other nations. "thou" is people from those.



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