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Tithe To Abused Animals
  
Rambo:

In the Old Testament, 11 tribes of Israel had their own land to farm, and gave 10% of their increase to Levi, who owned no land.

In Christianity, no group is forbidden from owning land and need to be supported by everyone else. Many large churches are huge rich corporations, with pastors much richer than most members. Many have mansions, yachts, and private jets. This is because they preach tithing to their members, and use that income to personally enrich themselves. This is not what tithing was supposed to be for.

Paying 10% is legalism. Nowhere in the New Testament is anyone commanded to pay tithes, or reprimanded for not doing so. The early church didn't pay 10% - they kept ALL their goods in common.


Want More From God
  
Ruben:

(Sorry, I said that was said by John, but it was actually Paul).

My point is that yes, these three remain, but our SALVATION is not rooted in all three of them.

We are SAVED by faith alone. We are JUSTIFIED by faith and works. (Elsewhere, Paul says what happens to someone without works, or with bad works - they themselves are saved, although their works are destroyed as by fire.)


What Is The Gospel
  
Ruben:

You wrote: That's because they believe in the Bible Alone doctrine, which is no where in scripture!

Not really. Most cults teach false doctrines because they have their own doctrine - whether it comes from their own experience, or "revelations" from their so-called "prophets" and teachers, that they consider more important than the Bible itself. Bible-only groups are necessarily closer to the truth, because if they actually hold scripture sacred, they can't depart far from it, as other groups do (e.g. Branch Davidians, Jonestown's People's Temple, Mormons, etc.). They may be as misguided as Pharisees, but they don't go off the deep end.


Want More From God
  
kathr4453 :

You wrote: Strongaxe, I believe the verses in Matthew you always refer to is addressed to those who make it through the Great Tribulation after we see all that will come to pass in Matthew 24-25. You see Jesus as KING here on earth at that time.. Seeing the Great Tribulation is also know as the time of Jacob's Trouble, and anti_ Semitic will be at its height, the MY BRETHREN here are Jews Jesus is referring to. How the Jews are treated at that time, also is stated in Zachariah 12-14.

This judgement is not those saved by grace through faith today.


Jesus never made this distinction. He never said there was one set of rules for some people, and a different set of rules for others who come later.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

But if you have a spirit that is telling you that something is The Truth, how do you know whether or not that spirit is, in fact, the Holy Spirit, or some other spirit? The fact that so many weird cults exists (including may Christian-based cults) demonstrates that a very large number of people are unable to make this distinction.

One way to know is, if that spirit tells you something that goes against the Bible, one of them is wrong - and guess which one that is?


Want More From God
  
kathr4453:

Exactly! John wrote that the three greatest things are Faith, Hope, and Love - yet we are saved by Faith, not by Hope, and not by Love. (Although, curiously enough, the judgment in Matthew 25 is based on Love, not Faith).


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

The Old Testament is much older than Jesus (i.e. much more than 2000 years old), and the New Testament has been around for almost 2000 years. It's a common conceit among many English-speaking evangelicals that the Bible somehow miraculously sprang out of nothing in 1611, and there was nothing before that.

Another problem is that many churches emphasize personal experience over scripture, and say "The Bible may say one thing, but the Holy Spirit tells me something else". Since God is not the author of confusion, they may be hearing from some spirit, but it probably isn't the one they think it is. Many cults are born this way.


What Is The Strong Delusion
  
Trav:

Which "blind doctrines" are those? Please be specific.

I'm suggesting that EVERY part of the Bible needs to be studied within the context that it was written - not just cherry-picking a verse here or there out of context just to "prove" one's pet doctrines - which you do all the time.

Note that Romans was specifically written *to the Romans*, and NOT to Israel, but of course, with your "Everything is about Israel" doctrine, you have to make it all about them.

I also note that you answered this 3 weeks after I posted it. Were you just bored, and searching for some post of mine that you hadn't attacked yet?


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

In other words, perhaps, but there is no scripture that uses the words "accept Christ" or "accept Jesus" - which is a common ritual formula used by evangelical protestant churches.

And, as you yourself said, merely "accepting Christ" does not actually make him your lord. Jesus himself said many would come to him on the last day and say "Lord! Lord! Didn't we do many wonderful works in your name?" and he would tell them "I never knew you!". Many go through the ritual of "accepting Christ" without that making many meaningful change in their lives. Like Pharisees, whom Jesus accused of going all over to make converts, just as destined for hell as they were.


How Old Is The Earth
  
Trav:

You CONSTANTLY attack Democrats - for their beliefs.

Calling me "wrongaxe" means you think what I say and believe is wrong, and calling people names is an attack.

Calling me a "bidenite" is false. He's not perfect, but much better than Trump. He doesn't have a cult following, constantly holding rallies for his True Believers (as Trump does).

More attacks on me:

"he chunks the prophets context for his own blind doctrines."

"Both antagonists desire to be authoritative"

"The context of them ALL show ALL your jigsaw puzzle doctrines false."

"Just the lifestyles you uphold and defend so proudly, abortion, deviant lifestyles..."


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

You wrote: Not that it's totally false, we do need to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. Problem is, people only see him as their Savior...never making him their Lord.

I don't believe there is any scripture that says we must "accept Christ". If there is, can you point it out?

I don't go to a church. The People as Great!! But listening to the teachings are like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Doesn't that mean that the teachers are causing you to stumble (i.e. forsaking assembly), so they aren't free of sin? And what about everyone else? How many people do you personally know who have been 100% sinless since they were saved?


How Did Cain Find A Wife
  
Probably one of Adam and Eve's other unnamed children. The Bible frequently mentions men, but almost never women UNLESS essential to the story. We know Eve, but not most other wives. We know Noah and his sons, but only that their wives existed, not their names. Jacob had 12 sons. Only one daughter was mentioned later - because her rape almost started a war.

The geneologies of Jesus only mention Bathsheba and Mary - no other women, not even Eve.

It's likely that Adam and Eve had other sons and daughters, but they weren't considered important enough to mention specifically. Cain and Abel were mentioned because of the story of the first murder. Seth was the heir. Any others wouldn't have been important enough to mention.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

We are saved through faith, not doctrine. In Matthew 25, Jesus rewards righteous sheep because they show love to others - NOT because they were in the right church, or knew the right doctrine. That they even needed to ask him WHY shows they didn't know Matthew 25.

I've met several people in my life with that glow ancient artists painted as halos around saints. One was even a Jehovah's Witness.

I didn't ask about mainstream churches. I asked if YOU know ANY churches (e.g. yours) where 100% of members are 100% perfect and never sin.


How Old Is The Earth
  
Trav:

You wrote: Just pointing out your self esteem dictates you must constantly attack others beliefs.

LOL! Talk about projection! *I* am not the one here constantly attacking other people's beliefs, and calling their faith and legitimacy into question. *YOU* are. (And perhaps a few others, like Jerry). Before making such accusations, you need to look in a mirror. Before constantly criticizing the specks in others' eyes, you should first remove the plank from your own.

I have only used two names here. My real name for about a week, when I first came here (10+ years ago), until I noticed someone else was also using it, so I switched to this one instead, to avoid confusion.


Believe In The Gospel
  
Trav:

I admitted nothing. All I did was call you out on your vague innuendo, and YOU just admitted who you were making veiled accusations about. Again, speak plainly, like a man.

I am a man. I have been all my life. There. I've said it. Are you satisfied now?

I have NEVER *defended* abortion. I repeatedly showed that dealing with the cause (unwanted pregnancy) is MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE at lowering abortion than masking than the symptom (abortion) - yet you never addressed this. Why? Because you'd rather blame the victims than work for a solution proven to work (e.g. Denmark has the LOWEST ABORTION RATE IN THE WORLD). Instead of cursing the darkness, turn on the light.


What Is The Gospel
  
David:

Do you know ANY church where 100% of the people in it have never sinned after being saved, not even once? Where everyone is perfect, and perfect all the time? I sure don't. If you do, please tell us where this perfect church is.


How Old Is The Earth
  
Trav:

You wrote: Ive been coming here for years. wrongax couldnt put two intelligent sentences together when he started.

I have been coming here for years too. The fact that 1582 visitors here have found my posts useful, while only 223 have found yours useful, speaks volumes about which of us can string intelligent sentences together.

And by the way, attempting to ridicule people by twisting their names is a tactic used by immature children. Please grow up.

And yet again, your entire last post did not address any issues I brought up, or any issues discussed in this group. It was 100% personal attack.


Believe In The Gospel
  
Trav:

You mentioned michael_e's "antagonists". "Both antagonists desire to be authoritative". Who could that be, exactly? It's pretty obvious to everyone who you were referring to.

Yes, you didn't SPECIFICALLY identify them, but since kathr and I are the two people you constantly accuse of things here, it's pretty obvious to all who you meant. In just the same way, you constantly make veiled accusations against me, yet you never actually come out and say what they are about, even after being repeatedly asked to do so - because you assume others will fill in the blanks, but you can remain blameless because YOU didn't actually come out and say it.

Be a man and speak plainly, instead of in veiled innuendo.


How Old Is The Earth
  
more_excellent_way:

Right. The Bible never calls scripture as the Word of God - only Jesus. It points to the Way. It isn't the Way itself. Many worship the letter book rather than its author - the mistake of the Pharisees.

Nevertheless, we are repeatedly told to "study to show ourselves approved". Bereans "searched the scriptures daily to see if these things be so". How can we know the Way unless we see the signposts we are given?

Many believe whatever they are told, without checking to see if it's actually true. This has always been true. Even today we have people who reject provable facts, and believe conspiracy theories, pseudohistory, pseudoscience, and heresy without evidence.


How Old Is The Earth
  
more_excellent_way:

I don't object to things "because of what I was taught". I know there are many different perspectives. I like to investigate them before automatically making assumptions. Just like the Bereans, who didn't just take Paul's and others' word for things, but who did their own research "they searched the scriptures daily, to see if they were true".

I'm an iconoclast. I smash sacred idols, and slaughter sacred cows. I don't automatically believe what people tell me about religious (or other) matters unless they can prove they're true. I AM interested in fringe theories - but only if they can be proven correct, and when they contradict actual evidence, they must necessarily be false theories.



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