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Do You Bear Truth
"speaking for the body of Christ."---Mark_V.

You don't speak for the Body of Christ. You really think you do?

What excuses? I don't agree with what the RCC did in the Medieval Period, but when I bought the evils of the Protestant Reformers to light, you attack me. Why? Why do you defend these men and all their crimes?

What stories? None that I have written is a fairy tale. I got everything that I have written about the Protestant Reformers from Protestant sources.

"or to profess you have the one and only Church who has all the Truth. "

You profess to have all the Truth (and speak for the Body Christ, like the Roman Pope) and that your interpretations are correct.

In IC.XC.,

Do You Bear Truth
Mark V-

Each of the Reformer in the 14-16th centuries developed their own version of Protestantism. They all rebel against the Roman Pope, and believe he was a heretic, but they each developed in his own belief system. The Reformers and their churches held councils and excommunicated people. They also executed people for their contrary beliefs (like John Calvin did to Michael Servetus and that's a historical fact). They were just as corrupted as the RCC, yet you defend their actions. Why? You are a hypocrite.

I hope you repent from your sins before it is too late. You are a liar and a hypocrite. Just like the Pharisees. There is no difference. One day you will get saved, I pray for that.

In IC.XC..

Do You Bear Truth
"When you repent and join the body of Christ, and speak for the Truth of the gospel and stop worshipping saints and Mary -Mark_V. on 9/29/11"

There you go again. We Orthodox don't worship Mary or the Saints (and I can give you a great book about Orthodoxy written by a Protestant that defended us). Of course, in your own Protestant world, we Orthodox do.

You can believe what you want on this matter, but I know I, Cluny, and the rest of the Orthodox world do NOT worshiped the Theotokos or the Saints, and if one did, they cease being Orthodox.

You can continue to slander us all you want, because you are blessing us by doing so.

The Truth does not matter to a Anti-Catholic/Orthodox bigot.

In IC.XC.,

Do You Bear Truth
Poppa Bear,

You accept 27 books in the NT (and perhaps believe Matthew wrote the first Gospel, Mark the second, Luke the third, and John the third) because some men in the Early Church told us that. You didn't get that from Scriptures Alone.

We can agree that the Holy Spirit guided the Ancient Church to tell Christians which books should belong in the NT, but it is still appealing to a extra Biblical authority, the Church.

What is the Church? Those who have put their faith in the resurrected Jesus and follow all the Traditions of the Apostles and their successors, and celebrate the Eucharist with a canonical Bishop, so say Saint Ignatius of Antioch in the early 2nd century.

In IC.XC.,

Do You Bear Truth
"they want to interpret Scirpture the way they want and this way they can add to the Word of God" (Mark V)

Look at your own people Mark V. They have been divided (with thousands of sects) for 500 years. Each person can interpret the Scriptures the way they seem fit. That is why when one person interpret the Scriptures differently in any Protestant church, they can choose to separate and create their own Church and then become the Pope of that church. Even Martin Luther was amazed at the level of division he caused.

"idol worship just as the RCC and Eastern Orthodox have. "

We Orthodox don't. You bear false witness. Repent Mark V. Even many of your Protestant writers will call you a liar.

In IC.XC.,

Immortal Soul Biblical
Iggy: "Get yourself a real Bible." Do you mean a Catholic Bible like yours? No thanks.
---jerry6593 on 9/24/11

I said I had a original 1611 King James Bible. Catholic Bible? Where did you get that idea?

Get yourself a genuine Bible Jerry6539. A original King James Bible with the deutercanonicals books in them. Not a Catholic one, but a King James Bible, the original.

In IC.XC.,

Immortal Soul Biblical

The Book of Wisdom is part of the original 1611 KJV and all of its 5 recensions (the last two being in 1769 and 1905).

Glorhy to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/23/11

In 2006, another King James Bible was published with this book (and the other books such Tobit, Judith) called "KJV New Cambridge Paragraph Bible". I have it, but it is very heavy so I stick with the original 1611 King James Bible.

Tradition of men later omitted these books from the KJB and other Bibles (although a increasing number of modern day translations are included these books in their Bible versions).

In IC.XC.,

Repeated New Testament

I believe in the entire Old Testament of the Bible (49 books), as they point to Christ and to the Church. The Orthodox Church cherish the Old Testament (the LXX, or the Septuagint) texts as much as we cherish the NT Scriptures. However, like Jerry6538, I also believe that not every law found in these pages are obligated to be followed by Christians under the New Covenant (read Hebrews), such as the laws you mention (Jerry6538 do not believe these laws are to be followed by NT Christians either).

Christians are under a New Covenant, and the Old Testament was a foreshadowing of the revelation in the New Testament.

In IC.XC.,

Immortal Soul Biblical
In Acts 2:25-35, we are told about David's prophecy concerning Christ. Verse 34 is render in the NKJV (and other translations) as "For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself [Psalm 110:1 is quoted afterwards).

The context of the Scripture is not about David's after death state (or lack thereof), but rather his prophecy concerning Christ. The Prophet David did not need to go to heaven (whether in the body or out of the body, as Saint Paul wrote) to deliver what he saw. He spoke, as moved by the Holy Ghost (1 Peter 1:21).

The Seventh Day Adventist heretical sect twisted this Scripture to fit with their dogma.

In IC.XC.,

Immortal Soul Biblical
Any knowledgeable student of the Bible, and Ancient Babylonian and Greek Philosophy, theology, myths, legends, etc, will you tell that many concepts of the Old Testament (incenses, sacrifices, bells, holy objects, priesthood clothing, images, special days [holidays], etc) was also part of nearby pagan religions/cultures. In fact, praying is a "pagan" tradition. Going to temples (or churches) is what the pagans did too. Stories similar to Gen 6:5-22 are documented as history or legend in almost every region on earth.

Either Jerry do not know this fact or he just think we are dumb and will fall into his "pagan" tactic.

My King James Bible in Wisdom 3:1-4 illustrates the immortality of the soul.

In IC.XC.,

Ark Of The Covenant
"They have them there so others can see what their children look like." (Mark V)

We had this discussion before. You pointed me to Exodus 20:5 about graven Images. According to your person interpretation, we are not suppose have or make ANY graven image of ANY thing. You said a Image equals a idol and it is idolatry. I pointed out that the Greek text of the OT (LXX) makes it clear that it was NOT a condemnation on images, but only Images turned into Idols.

Now, you are approving your own graven images of loved ones (and dead ones) and hanging them on your walls? Now you don't consider them Idolatry? Why the sudden change in interpretation? Is it because I pointed out your hypocrisy?

In IC.XC.,

Ark Of The Covenant
"I don't think you can ever show the real Jesus." (Mark V)

That hasn't prevent Protestants for making graven images of Jesus. Lutheran and Presbyterians, (etc) generally have stained windows with graven images of Christ, the Saints, and biblical events. I have their churches near my house. Are you now being "selective" in your judgement?

"You beg this images for miracles."

I do no such thing, but when I was a Pentecostal I begged a piece of cloth for miracles/healing. My parish Priest told me that any genuine miracles attributed to Icons came from God. I don't worship Icons, but you think we Orthodox do, so I am playing your game and turning the table around at your hypocrisy.

In IC.XC.,

Ark Of The Covenant
"As I've frequently said, back when I was a Baptist (before I got saved), we said prayers to pieces of cloth.

Glory to Jesus Christ!
---Cluny on 9/20/11

Before the Holy Spirit convicted me of my sins, I used to have a "prayer cloth" in which we Pentecostals will dance with it and wave it in our services. It was a good luck charm. Our Pentecostal church was full of graven images of crosses (even a wooded statue of one behind the pulpit), a dove, nations' flags, special events of the church, etc. My pastor used to wear a pagan dress, made of crosses (it was red and white with stripes). We used to pledge our life to the American flag with hand gestures and words.

In IC.XC.,

Is Bible Only Biblical
"why else did these same churchfathers go through so much pain in defining canon, from non-canon books?" (andy3396)

And what was the "independant unchangeable testingstone" that the Ancient Fathers used to canonized Scriptures (and keep it mind that various traditions exited among the Fathers), andy? By the way, the reason why many of the Ancient Fathers (and later the Church' as a whole) decided to give the canon of the Scriptures is because many heretical groups where claiming to possessed books written by the Apostles (so they say). The problem was that these books were conflict to what all the ancient and apostolic churches were teachings.

In IC.XC.,

Is Christ God
Saint Jerome wrote, "For three reasons the Savior accepted baptism from John. First, because he was born a man, that he might fulfill all justice and humility of the law. Second, that by his Baptism he might confirm John's Baptism. And third, that by sanctifying the waters of the Jordan through the descent of the dove, he might show the Holy Spirit's advent in the Baptism of believers (Commentary on Matthew 1.3-13).

According to the various ancient commentators of Scriptures, the descent of the Holy Spirit as a dove during the Baptism of Christ' was a sign of the Holy Trinity. It was also a sign of the Spirit' taking action through Him (the commencing of his Messianic task).

In IC.XC.,

Is Bible Only Biblical
Some unheard men try to use 1 John 2:27 as proof that God did not ordained godly men to correctly guide the Faithful to the true meaning of Scriptures and the Apostolic Tradition.

Taken in context, Saint John (who was writing a letter teaching Christians by the way) was telling the Early Christians (in contrast to what the Gnostic was teaching) that they were indwelt by the Holy Spirit and that they have anointing by the Holy Spirit who shows them that Jesus Christ is God come in the flesh (cf. 4:2,15, 5:1,10). The topic of Christ is what he was discussing in verses 20 and 27. Nature reveals that a God exist who is all powerful (Rom 1:18-20) and Good. The Holy Spirit reveals to the Saints the nature of Jesus Christ.

In IC.XC.,

Why Should Pastors Get Paid

By the way, following your personal interpretation, we do not need to listen to you. You should not continue to post here since we have no need to be taught by you. This is another reason why your interpretation is incorrect. Haz27 is just a mere mortal. We do not need him or her to teach us anything.......

In IC.XC.,

Beginning Of The End Times

The Early Christians suffered persecution/death from their enemies. They were willing to suffer for Christ. Our Blessed Paul counted it a blessing to suffer for Christ. Throughout Church History, and even now, godly Man and Women suffered persecution/death for their Faith. They laid down their life for Christ. There were ten most brutal and indiscriminate massacres of the Christians but "the blood of martyrs was the seed of the Church." The Church triumphed, because it is the Divine Institution. Why would that change and the End of Times?

The Fact that you, Mima, are not willing to suffer for Christ' sake shows that you are not a Matured Christian.

Christ is Risen!

In IC.XC.,

Sign Of Cross Biblical
"Vain repetitions are not limited to words." (Mima)

Says Mima. But where in Scriptures does it teach that, Mima? Is that another one of your many traditions of men?

In Scriptures, different body positions are used while praying.

If one decides to prostrate themselves every time they pray, how is that wrong and any of your business?

It seems like Mima is too legalistic when it comes to praying. He must have a big book with strict rules on the proper way to pray.

In IC.XC.,

Sign Of Cross Biblical
"For Jews the Cross is temptation, for pagans it is madness, but for us believers it reminds us of our salvation. When in church one reads about the Cross and one is reminded of the sufferings on the Cross, the faithful are indignant at the Cross and let out a plaintive wail and murmur not at the Cross but at the crucifiers and unbelievers. For the Cross is the salvation of the Church....the praise of those who hope on it. The Cross has released us from the evil that possessed us and is the beginning of the blessings received by us. The Cross is the reconcilement of His enemies with God... For by the Cross we were freed from enmity and through the Cross we have become amiable to God[....]"
-St. John Chrysostom, On the Holy Cross

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