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Pentecostal Church Our Model
Unfortunately, seek signs for their own sake. This can lead to charismania, which Paul addressed.

One pastor taught "how to speak in tongues" - say "I love you Jesus" quickly over and over again until you speak in tongues. This is rubbish - it replaces the indwelling of the Spirit by psychological delusion.

I was once in a Pentecostal church that had authentic gifts, but one new believer insisted on praying over everyone. He laid hands on their heads and actively pushed them forward, which would make them fall over. Not by the Power of the Spirit, but by the power of physics. What he thought was a spiritual gift was imitation.

Predestined As A Son Of God
You can't command someone to "be" predestined - either they were already predestined, or they weren't. This is what predestination means.

As for Calvinistic total depravity:

Atheist illusionist and comedian Pell Jilette wrote:

"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what's to stop me from raping all I want?

And my answer is, I DO rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I DO murder all I want. And the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn't have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine."

What Is Clamor

Wrong again. Clamor in the dictionary:

a loud uproar, as from a crowd of people: the clamor of the crowd at the gates.

a vehement expression of desire or dissatisfaction: the clamor of the proponents of the law.

popular outcry: The senators could not ignore the clamor against higher taxation.

The Bible mentions it twice:

Proverbs 9:13 A foolish woman is clamorous: she is simple, and knoweth nothing.
Ephesians 4:31: Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice

Neither has anything to do with "resentment towards scripture".

Yet another example of you pushing a favorite theory of yours with no backing.

Predestined As A Son Of God

Who here is adding to, or taking away from scripture? Both you and I post scripture here. The difference between us is that I acknowledge all of it, while you seem to ignore (i.e. take away) the parts that you find inconvenient.

What Is Clamor

You wrote: Clamor is the resentment heard on posted scripture. Scripture to Israel about Israel, that prophets of Israel, authorized by GOD spoke through.

Wrong. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with either the dictionary or the common sense definitions of "clamor". This is just you changing the subject yet again to your own person pet message - i.e. that God's words are for Israel only. What YOU are doing - i.e. constantly parroting the same thing over and over again - DOES fit the dictionary and common sense definitions of "clamor" though.

What Is Clamor

Clamor is constantly blathering the same thing over and over again, while totally ignoring what anyone else has to say.

Conversations involve multiple people speaking, listening to what other people say, and then adding comments about what is said. This enriches everyone.

However, constantly repeating the same things over and over again while ignoring what others say is not dialogue - it is monologue. And when it clutters up space that other people are using to actually hold conversations, it's clamor.

What Is Clamor

That's really rich. You accuse ME of carving up God's given scripture, and then you proceed to do exactly the same thing.

Heb 9:15 actually says: And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

You omitted the underlined part, which totally changes the meaning of the sentence.

Why do you keep going back to the same verses over and over again, yet you never ONCE explained why you keep ignoring the ones that I have posted that Jesus sent his disciples to preach the gospel TO ALL NATIONS?

Pentecostal Church Our Model
Another toxic behavior many Christians fall prey to (but Pentecostals are particularly vulnerable to) is Pharisaism: the "gospel" of "name it and blame it".

Whenever something bad happens, many judge and assign blame. When Katrina hit New Orleans, Pat Robertson blamed festivals like Mardi Gras and Southern Decadence - which take place in the French Quarter, the area damaged the *least*. So either God has very poor aim, or Pat was totally wrong.

When someone has cancer or financial problems that God doesn't fix, Pharisees self-righteously judge "it MUST be because of some unconfessed sin in your life" instead of comforting the victims.

Jesus told us to forgive and comfort, not to judge and blame.

Keep The Sabbath Holy
Some insist on "keeping the Sabbath holy", without understanding what that means:

- Refraining from ALL work between sunset Friday night until sunset Saturday night (no, not Sunday. The Bible NEVER changed the Sabbath to Sunday. The church just met on the first day)
- No cooking
- Not lighting or dousing fires (e.g. no lights on or off)
- No travel (no driving to church)
- No commerce (no shopping, no going out to eat. Meals had to be cooked BEFORE sundown Friday.)
- If you violate ANY of these, you must be stoned to death.

Anyone who does not adhere to ALL of these isn't "keeping the Sabbath holy" as the Bible commands, and they're just doing what they feel is comfortable.

What Is Clamor


Heb 9:15 *they which are called*

Heb 9:28 *unto them that look for him*

These talk about "called" and "who look to him" whoever they are - NOT tribes or nations.

Romans 2:27 The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

28 A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

29 No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code...

The covenant is with SPIRITUAL Israel - whosoever believes - not PHYSICAL Israel.

Living In The End Times

You should read the WHOLE book, and not just a few convenient proof texts. That way, you would understand the WHOLE gospel message, not just the tiny fragment that you're constantly obsessively fixated on:

Matthew 16: 15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Note that this commanded the apostles to preach the gospel to *ALL* creatures - NOT just Israel, but *ALL*. Also, it said that *WHOEVER BELIEVES* will be saved - not just Israel.

I find it sad that most of the people on this site just sit back silently and don't weigh in on this issue.

Pentecostal Church Our Model
One errors that came out of Pentecostalism is the Prosperity Gospel. "Name it and claim it" - if you believe, God is a Cosmic Genie who gives you anything you ask.

Funny how when normal people need money, they are told to pray, while when rich televangelists need money, instead of praying, prey on viewers, asking them for cash (and guilting them if they don't send it).

Paula White was the "spiritual advisor" to our former president. She said anyone who tells you to deny yourself is from Satan. Jesus told his followers to deny themselves, take up their cross, and follow him. You can draw your own conclusion as to whom SHE follows.

Forgive As God Forgives
Comedian Stephen Colbert once wrote:

"If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition and then admit that we just don't want to do it."

Forgive As God Forgives

How true! Unfortunately, many Christians find these instructions inconvenient, and just ignore them.

When Cluny first showed me this site years ago, he called it "The Piranha Blogs", due to constant infighting - and things haven't changed. Some aren't content to discuss, but constantly fling insults, accusations, and outright lies. Read them yourself, and draw your own conclusions.

Many Christian are Pharisees - pushing beliefs on others, hurling accusations, condemning others to hell, fighting over doctrine - driving many away from Christ in disgust. People abandon God due to Christian hypocrisy. Paul rightly wrote: "'It is because of YOU God's name is mocked among the nations' as it is written".

Pentecostal Church Our Model
Pentecostals recovered one piece of the Gospel lost over the centuries, but they are far from perfect. They are still vulnerable to the same errors present in the early church:

Thinking gifts are a divine sign of approval, e.g. "I speak in tongues and you don't - so I'm better than you" - toxic elitism.

"Charismania" - putting experience over doctrine, resulting in chaos (Galatians 1:8). Robert Tilton can't complete a sentence without lapsing into tongues, despite "the spirits of the prophets *are subject to the prophets*". I've seen some Pentecostal churches where things were in order, but some where they weren't.

What Is Clamor

Jesus said he was the Shepherd. He told his disciples to preach the gospel to ALL NATIONS. Why don't you hear THAT scripture? They preached to the Jew first, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK. Why don't you hear THOSE scriptures? Your hearing is very selective - hearing only what you want to hear.

I have NO PROBLEM with scriptures you quote, but they only preach half the message, and you adamantly refuse to listen to the other half.

The parts of Acts you quoted were specifically preached to Jews in Jerusalem, and converts to *JUDAISM* in synagogues elsewhere, so of course, they would be talking about Israel. But there is also much of the gospel that is NOT - i.e. that part preached to the New Testament church.

Living In The End Times

No, the Bible was not ALL written by Israel. Most was, but Luke was a GREEK physician, and he wrote Luke and Acts.

No, the Bible was NOT all written about Israel. Most was, but the Gospel was written for ALL NATIONS, and Jesus sent his disciples to preach it to the Jews first, and ALSO to the Greeks and other nations.

You keep talking about "distaste". Who here is distasteful? Be specific. I'm not - I've repeatedly said I agree with the scriptures you post. You're just conjuring up conflict in your own mind, because you can't seem to abide a conversation where you're not accusing someone of disagreeing with you.

Confessing Our Sins

When you break a law (civil, religious, or otherwise) and injure another person, you owe a debt to BOTH law AND that person. E.g. in murder, there's injury to the victim, AND their family, AND crime against the state, AND sin against God. Each is punished, and/or forgiven, separately.

The victim's family may forgive you, but you still go to jail, and eventually hell.

You may repent, and God may forgive you, but you still go to jail, and the victim's family may sue you for wrongful death.

Some people think one simple "I'm sorry", and God will magically forgive you of your sin, and also wipe away all the temporal consequences of that sin as well. This is self-delusion. The Bible never teaches this.

What Is Clamor

Why do you keep posting scriptures that point out that God will have a blessing for Israel? WE ALREADY KNOW THIS. NOBODY is disagreeing with it. Yet you keep posting them on and on, like a broken record.

But none of these prove that God will ONLY deal with Israel, and NEVER with anybody else. We have shown many scriptures that shows that God has extended his new covenant to ALL NATIONS, and sometimes even in the O.T. prophets.

If you call us wolves BECAUSE WE POST SCRIPTURES THAT DISAGREE WITH YOU, it's not US you are disagreeing with, but GOD. You really need to re-examine which side of prophecy you're on, becuase you only see half the picture, and refuse to even consider the other half - just as the Pharisees did.

Living In The End Times

Yes, THE OLD TESTAMENT was written by Israel to Israel. But the New Testament is more than that. One of its authors (Luke) was a Greek, and not a Jew.

Yes, Jesus said *HE* was only sent to the House of Israel, yet *HE HIMSELF* sent his disciples to preach to *ALL NATIONS*. Your head is stuck so far back in the Old Testament that you're ignoring Jesus' direct commands.

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