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Transubstantiation In Christianity
Before you can explain HOW something happened, you must first establish that it did happen. You would think if bread and wine had been been transformed into flesh and blood upon receiving it (a claim that Jesus himself never made), it would be noticeable.

Transubstantiation In Christianity
How many other pre-reformation churches are there?

At any rate, it should be easy to tell if you are eating and drinking bread and wine vs human fleash and blood. If not, it ahould be poasible to have the bread and wine tested to see if their composition remains to be bread and wine or if they have actually undergone a chemical or physical change into blood and flesh. I'm surprised that Catholics haven't attempted this to disprove all the transubstination nay-sayers.

Neutral On Abortions

jerry and Samuel are members of a pro-choice church. Don't they have something to be ashamed of?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 1/26/16

Perhaps they do. But I have never personally seen them defending or belittling the value of an unborn baby. I've said it before and I will say it again: I would and do criticize anyone who supports legalized abortion. I have never seen that from Jerry or Samuel. Have you? I have seen that from StrongAxe.

Neutral On Abortions
StrongAxe, you have much to be ashamed of. You are pro-choice. You should be ashamed. The fact that you aren't ashamed is clear indication of the condition of your soul.

Upcoming 2016 Elections

You wrote: The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats...

Again, can you cite any references for that? I cited mine.
---StrongAxe on 1/25/16

My source is the Congressional Record Index.

House of Representatives:
Democrat: 153-91 (63-37%)
Republican: 136-35 (80-20%)

Democrat: 46-21 (69-31%)
Republican: 27-6 (82-18%)

Why don't you post your percentages again, with the exact number of votes shown. If you do the math, the percentages from your wiki-article can not add up, no matter how you mince the numbers.

Neutral On Abortions
StrongAxe, why would you avoid answering, unless what I was accusing you of is true. If you did not support legalized abortion, then you would have nothing to be ashamed or silent about.

Upcoming 2016 Elections
The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress.

The 14th Amendment, giving full citizenship to freed slaves, passed in 1868 with 94% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress.

The 15th Amendment, giving freed slaves the right to vote, passed in 1870 with 100% Republican support and 0% Democrat support in congress.

The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress. In the House, 80 percent of the Republicans and 63 percent of the Democrats voted in favor. In the Senate, 82 percent of the Republicans and 69 percent of the Democrats voted for it.

Neutral On Abortions
Thanks for proving what I said about you. You are now spewing the same argument that abortion proponents spew, that the unborn baby is not a human being. And you are not an abortion supporter?

Cluny, what is your reaction to StrongAxe claim that an unborn baby is not a human being?

Upcoming 2016 Elections
StrongAxe, there were two major political parties in 1964, Republican and democrat, not four. The confederacy had been abolished for nearly 100 years prior. There is no such thing as the north democrat party, south democrat party, north Republican party, or the south Republican party. You are trying to split data in order to show stronger democrat support for the Civil Rights Act. No matter which way you split it, those numbers you gave can not mathematically add up to the actual Republican vs. Democrat votes, in which Republican votes far exceeded democrat votes for the CRA.

Neutral On Abortions

\\Saying something should not be illegal, is the same as saying it should be legal.\\

Not necessarily.

Actually, Yes, necessarily.

In any case, StrongAxe has never said abortion should not be illegal.

My, you have reading troubles. I did your homework for your lazy self and you still can't comprehend it?

And I noticed you said NOTHING about the SDA's pro-choice position.


Perhaps you should wait until a person's response has a chance to be posted before jumping on them for not answering. My answer to that question has been posted below.

Upcoming 2016 Elections

It is true that most blacks tended to vote Republican until the time of FDR, when they migrated to the Democratic party.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 1/24/16

That is true. Of course, having black support doesn't make you not a racist. Advocating equality does.

Neutral On Abortions

BTW, Jed, when are you going to condemn the SDA Church for being pro-choice?

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 1/24/16

I criticize any person who is pro-choice. I know nothing about the SDA church. And given your track record, I can not simply rely on your word, just because you say they are so. You could be twisting words, as you often do, as evidenced by this very thread. If I ever hear any SDA member or a member of any church, defending a pro-choice stance, I will certainly criticize them as well. Also, remember, not everyone adheres 100% to the teachings of their denomination as you do, Cluny. Some people are able to think independently of their church leadership.

Allowed Bible Wiggle Room

There is not a double T in the word "liTeral".

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 1/24/16

Glad to see you have spell check. That makes you smarter than everyone else.

Upcoming 2016 Elections

The Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. was non-partisan, but always voted the Democratic ticket.

That is simply a flat out lie. King was a Republican. Which makes sense since the Republicans were the party of Civil Rights and the democrat fervently fought against it.

The Civil Rights Act was opposed strongly by southern Democrats, and even more strongly by southern Republicans.

Again, another lie. You're just making up your own historical stats.

Fact: The historic Civil Rights Act of 1964 was supported by a higher percentage of Republicans than Democrats in both houses of Congress.

Neutral On Abortions
Cluny, apparently you are having trouble understanding what is written. I get that happens to you a lot.

Let me help you. Illegal is the opposite of legal. Saying something should not be illegal, is the same as saying it should be legal. I hope that helps clear that up for you.

Videos Don't Lie

Unless you are Orthodox, faithforfaith, your church likewise is the church of MAN.

Glory to Jesus Christ!

---Cluny on 1/22/16

Well, that's a rather inflammatory and ignorant statement. Especially considering your theology is more based upon man-made traditions and folklore, rather than the Word of God, which is the Bible.

Upcoming 2016 Elections
Lyndon Johnson had a mixed record on race and initially opposed the bill. Prior to his presidency, as a senate leader, Johnson did his best to cripple the Civil Rights Act when it was first introduced by Republicans in 1957. Kennedy supported it. It was only after Johnson had taken the teeth out of it in the 1964 version that he supported it. Johnson would later explain his thinking thus: "These Negroes, theyre getting pretty uppity these days, and thats a problem for us, since theyve got something now they never had before: the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now weve got to do something about this weve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference."

Neutral On Abortions
Cluny, You've GOT to be kidding? Do you only read the posts you want to read? Goodness, you are lazy!

Just because one doesn't approve of something doesn't necessarily imply that one should also want it to be illegal...I loathe smoking, but I don't think the government should criminalize it. That does not make me pro-smoking nor a smoker... my own personal objections to abortion are merely my opinions, and insufficient to rise to the weight of wishing something to be made illegal. There are many things in this world that I think might be nicer if they weren't legal, but that alone doesn't justify me wishing it were so, or trying to force others to make it so. (As I mentioned earlier, smoking is one of them). ---StrongAxe

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